Decades Draft Tournament : Theon vs paceme

[Theon]

Having a quick read around Van Hanegem and he does seem to be extremely highly rated, so fair play Paceme

I wouldn't put him on a par with Xavi as haven't seen him but its clear he was a legendary talent - as was Tigana from the 80's French team

 

[antohan]

Greaves will be fecked against a this high line I might add. One of the reasons it worked so well for ajax is because that players didn't know what the feck was going on with the constant pressure and offside trap.

A time trap, I like it

 

[paceme]

Well this is going well. Got to say, Cryuff must be the most underrated great on here, nobody seems to give a shit about him really garrincha got more attention.

 

[Gio]

Paceme's team with Davids, Neeskens, Krol and Stam would be gorgeous.

 

[Theon]

Nahh everyone has said you will score mate and that is mainly down to Cryuff/Van Basten

It's conceeding that is the problem, your attack is amazing

 

[antohan]

In fairness paceme, it's your backline, not Cruyff. If anything good comes out of this game it will be Theon acknowledging van Hanegem was actually rather good.

 

[NM]

That's because Antohan is great at telling stories Paceme. You have the best players, but I think Theon's team and system is winning.

 

[antohan]

Paceme's team with Davids, Neeskens, Krol and Stam would be gorgeous.

Indeed, he was very unlucky to get some of them picked from under his nose and part of me was hoping he would get an easy draw so he could have a shot at them again. The other part felt that was too dangerous!

 

[antohan]

That's because Antohan is great at telling stories Paceme. You have the best players, but I think Theon's team and system is winning.

Garrincha needed no bumming. Don't think I did any.

Speaking of which, one thing that van Hanegem reminds us all of is how much more important international football was for these guys. His entire family died in the war ("murdered", as he would say). Today rivalries are more mythical, back then they were fecking personal.

 

[Theon]

Ronaldinho yesterday - well past his best but still pulling stuff like this off

 

[NM]

Garrincha needed no bumming. Don't think I did any.

Speaking of which, one thing that van Hanegem reminds us all of is how much more important international football was for these guys. His entire family died in the war ("murdered", as he would say). Today rivalries are more mythical, back then they were fecking personal.

That was a general comment, not focused on yesterday.

And yes, I always knew van Hanegem beause of his quote. Now reading about him as a player.

 

[Fergus' son]

I think these two teams were quite lucky to draw each other, had they been against anyone else they would've struggled. Two extremely lightweight midfields, Xavi/Pirlo/Tigana seems extremely porous, and is backed up by the wrong type of libero, two of the least defensively able wingers (unless I'm doing Jairzinho a disservice?), and the most over rated left back of all time, known far more for his attacking than his defending! One the other hand, paceme also has a midfield that a lot of the players in this draft can waltz through, a midfielder come left back playing at at right back and what seems like some uncomplimentary partnerships at the back.

I would've loved paceme's team had he manged to get Krol and Stam (both available to him).

As it stands, I'm seeing a battle between Ronaldinho (ripping the shit out of Netto) and Robben (lots of space to exploit vs Ronaldinho/Xavi/Carlos) Cruyff (best player on the pitch) and Van Basten (top 3 striker of all time)...

 

[Moby]

You should have started with Cerezo, paceme. Don't see much point of Keegan there with Cruyff, Van Basten and Robben already providing most things you can ask for from an attack. Against Theon's strong midfield 3 you should have added that third CM and the ball winning ability that he bring which would have really given a good platform to your attack which still won't be stopped by Theon's defense just that you would have a tough time getting the ball back. Have to go with Theon as I find his team more balanced.

 

[Fergus' son]

You should have started with Cerezo, paceme. Don't see much point of Keegan there with Cruyff, Van Basten and Robben already providing most things you can ask for from an attack. Against Theon's strong midfield 3 you should have added that third CM and the ball winning ability that he bring which would have really given a good platform to your attack which still won't be stopped by Theon's defense just that you would have a tough time getting the ball back. Have to go with Theon as I find his team more balanced.

True, Cerezo would give him the right balance for his front three to do what they do best.

 

[Theon]

Tigana seems extremely porous

So much wrong with that its unreal.

Tigana isn't pourous and niether is Xavi, think you are letting his current form sway your opinion a tad there but he was absolutely fine defensively at his peak - and he never had a player like Tigana next to him.

Passarella wasn't just a libero either, so that's a mental comment on him. He was first and foremost an exceptional defender.

You can call Roberto Carlos overrated but you don't get 125 caps for Brazil, play for Real Madrid for 11 years and get voted the second best player in the world without being a brilliant player.

 

[Fergus' son]

So much wrong with that its unreal.

Tigana isn't pourous and niether is Xavi, think you are letting his current form sway your opinion a tad there but he was absolutely fine defensively at his peak - and he never had a player like Tigana next to him.

Passarella wasn't just a libero either, so that's a mental comment on him. He was first and foremost an exceptional defender.

That's because I never said Tigana alone was porous, I said him/Xavi/Pirlo as a trio was (relatively speaking) and it is, your first round CL draft midfield looked less leaky than this one to me!

I never said Passarella wasn't a defender, or 'just a libero' either, I said I think he's the wrong type of libero for your team.

 

[paceme]

You should have started with Cerezo, paceme. Don't see much point of Keegan there with Cruyff, Van Basten and Robben already providing most things you can ask for from an attack. Against Theon's strong midfield 3 you should have added that third CM and the ball winning ability that he bring which would have really given a good platform to your attack which still won't be stopped by Theon's defense just that you would have a tough time getting the ball back. Have to go with Theon as I find his team more balanced.

Would of made for another boring team.

 

[paceme]

True, Cerezo would give him the right balance for his front three to do what they do best.

The whole point of building this team was to try and replicate the total football system, you can't do that if you sit thinking each area of the pitch as desperate from each other which is what putting another midfielder in would of done.

 

[Moby]

I don't think Van Basten is ideal for total football to be honest.

 

[Moby]

Looks like Cruyff might be heading back home early in this one.

 

[Theon]

I never said Passarella wasn't a defender, or 'just a libero' either, I said I think he's the wrong type of libero for your team.

It's just a daft comment.

Passarella is a top 5 centre back of all time, some would have him in the top 2 or 3.. yet you present him as some sort of weakness.

It isn't Beckenbauer back there, Passarella was actually an exceptional centre back.

 

[paceme]

I don't think Van Basten is ideal for total football to be honest.

Why?

 

[kps88]

Seedorf's a bloody curse in these drafts. Can never figure out what to do with him. I don't think he's good enough playing in a 2 man midfield.

 

[Moby]

Why?

He excelled in a 4-4-1-1 formation where all the movement was around him, him being the focal point of attack. While he's got good ability on the ball, I don't think he's got the movement or adaptability to switch roles out wide or deep with ease. I'm not saying he'd be completely useless, just that he's not ideal.

 

[antohan]

Would of made for another boring team.

Was just about to say that despite agreeing with Aldo's points, it was far too conventional for you

 

[Moby]

Cerezo himself was quite good on the ball wasn't he? It wouldn't have hampered the build up that much but would have ensured that you have the ball for sufficient amount of time to create enough damage.

Anyway if you wanted to go for total football from the off, should have picked the likes of Krol and Suurbier when they were available. Fullbacks was the thinnest category out of all the positions in this system!

 

[Fergus' son]

It's just a daft comment.

Passarella is a top 5 centre back of all time, some would have him in the top 2 or 3.. yet you present him as some sort of weakness.

It isn't Beckenbauer back there, Passarella was actually an exceptional centre back.

Stop getting upset at the slightest but of criticism, it's not 'daft', it's true. With that midfield I don't think Passarella is ideal. He may well be a top 5 defender of all time yet he's notoriously difficult to fit into a team (hence 'lesser defenders' being picked before him). Surrounding him with Roberto Carlos and that midfield isn't complimentary (for him or the midfielders) and it could've caused huge problems for you, luckily your opposition isn't best placed to take advantage however.

The whole point of building this team was to try and replicate the total football system, you can't do that if you sit thinking each area of the pitch as desperate from each other which is what putting another midfielder in would of done.

You picked him mate, ahead of Krol no less!!

 

[antohan]

Seedorf's a bloody curse in these drafts. Can never figure out what to do with him. I don't think he's good enough playing in a 2 man midfield.

Yeah, he's shite at drafts despite three different teams winning the CL four times with him deployed with different tactical dispositions. We must be missing something.

Not being sarcastic, just pointing out that marks him as exactly what paceme is using him as: an adaptable total footballer.

 

[paceme]

Cerezo wouldn't have suited the tactic at all. It was an utter brain dart by me to pick him. Him being good on the ball means nothing to the tactic, he is best known for playing at the base of midfield and anchoring it, playing an anchor while trying to convince people I'm playing total football would be daft, trying to trick people into voting for me by lying is not really something I'm interested in.

 

[antohan]

Cerezo himself was quite good on the ball wasn't he? It wouldn't have hampered the build up that much but would have ensured that you have the ball for sufficient amount of time to create enough damage.

Anyway if you wanted to go for total football from the off, should have picked the likes of Krol and Suurbier when they were available. Fullbacks was the thinnest category out of all the positions in this system!

Missing out on Krol to pick Cerezo and then benching him was fecking criminal. Paceme explained he didn't like Stam and that's why he picked de Boer so wouldn't put that down as a mistake, but losing Krol was a killer blow.

 

[Moby]

Cerezo wouldn't have suited the tactic at all. It was an utter brain dart by me to pick him. Him being good on the ball means nothing to the tactic, he is best known for playing at the base of midfield and anchoring it, playing an anchor while trying to convince people I'm playing total football would be daft, trying to trick people into voting for me by lying is not really something I'm interested in.

Not particularly. He has played as the right midfielder who acts as a playmaker plenty of times. He was an extremely graceful player on the ball. Not saying he would fit in well with your tactic, but he would surely provide better balance and can still keep the passing going.

 

[Theon]

Stop getting upset at the slightest but of criticism, it's not 'daft', it's true. With that midfield I don't think Passarella is ideal. He may well be a top 5 defender of all time yet he's notoriously difficult to fit into a team (hence 'lesser defenders' being picked before him). Surrounding him with Roberto Carlos and that midfield isn't complimentary (for him or the midfielders) and it could've caused huge problems for you, luckily your opposition isn't best placed to take advantage however.

No one is getting upset, you just have a tendency to come out these mental comments like the Scirea one the other day.

Passarella isn't a liability at the back, his game wasn't based on coming out of the defence or any nonsense like that - he was first and foremost a tough, dominant defender. You seem to have just heard that he was a libero and are making assumptions based on that. He was nothing like Beckenbauer or even Scirea.

 

[antohan]

Stop getting upset at the slightest but of criticism, it's not 'daft', it's true.

Good thing you weren't around yesterday!

With that midfield I don't think Passarella is ideal. He may well be a top 5 defender of all time yet he's notoriously difficult to fit into a team (hence 'lesser defenders' being picked before him). Surrounding him with Roberto Carlos and that midfield isn't complimentary (for him or the midfielders) and it could've caused huge problems for you, luckily your opposition isn't best placed to take advantage however.

Theon has this major crush with Passarella but always invariably gets something wrong with him. I think he is right in that he was still a top defender, but he would never get the best out of him (i.e. "top 5 best ever") the way he deploys him. It's a bit like his fascination with playing both Xavi and Pirlo together.He gets around it saying we ignore how good Xavi was... when not at his peak. What's the point then?

There's a reason why people talk about "building teams around" someone.

 

[paceme]

Stop getting upset at the slightest but of criticism, it's not 'daft', it's true. With that midfield I don't think Passarella is ideal. He may well be a top 5 defender of all time yet he's notoriously difficult to fit into a team (hence 'lesser defenders' being picked before him). Surrounding him with Roberto Carlos and that midfield isn't complimentary (for him or the midfielders) and it could've caused huge problems for you, luckily your opposition isn't best placed to take advantage however.





You picked him mate, ahead of Krol no less!!

Tbf I am best placed to take advantage of any defensive frailties.

 

[Theon]

He gets around it saying we ignore how good Xavi was... when not at his peak. What's the point then?

Is this supposed to make sense?

 

[antohan]

It was an utter brain dart by me to pick him.

I love your phone's autocorrect. Brain dart

Him being good on the ball means nothing to the tactic, he is best known for playing at the base of midfield and anchoring it, playing an anchor while trying to convince people I'm playing total football would be daft, trying to trick people into voting for me by lying is not really something I'm interested in.

I thought the same at the time, kudos for owning up rather than try blagging your way out of it.

 

[antohan]

Is this supposed to make sense?

Yes, you keep emphasising how possession based your midfield is (not here once clarified), how Xavi has been one of the best ever based on his achievements in that setting... Then say we shouldn't think of tiki taka Xavi with his constant short passes, keeping possession, not risking losing it with a glory ball, etc. but the earlier version who would try more adventurous passes. Which one is it? And if it's the earlier version then he really wasn't as dominant a midfielder or something paceme should be as worried about.

Of course, most will vote on the name and what it represents, not early rather normal Xavi. It's quite handy really.

 

[Fergus' son]

Good thing you weren't around yesterday!



Theon has this major crush with Passarella but always invariably gets something wrong with him. I think he is right in that he was still a top defender, but he would never get the best out of him (i.e. "top 5 best ever") the way he deploys him. It's a bit like his fascination with playing both Xavi and Pirlo together.He gets around it saying we ignore how good Xavi was... when not at his peak. What's the point then?

There's a reason why people talk about "building teams around" someone.

Completely agree with your points, I never said he wasn't a top defender at all, just that the set up isn't best suited to get the best out of him, and I don't think he's the ideal cb to play behind that particular midfield. You tell him though, he can't seem to accept it coming from me.

Tbf I am best placed to take advantage of any defensive frailties.

You are well placed, but your midfield looks as lightweight as his to me and thats where I see the main frailities in his team. I'm surprised you didn't go Cruyff centre and Keegan playing off the wing, Cruyff would own that midfield.

I love your phone's autocorrect. Brain dart



I thought the same at the time, kudos for owning up rather than try blagging your way out of it.

Indeed.

 

[paceme]

feck sake, you really think Cryuff is not in midfield? fecking hell I give up.

 

[Theon]

Yes, you keep emphasising how possession based your midfield is (not here once clarified), how Xavi has been one of the best ever based on his achievements in that setting... Then say we shouldn't think of tiki taka Xavi with his constant short passes, keeping possession, not risking losing it with a glory ball, etc. but the earlier version who would try more adventurous passes. Which one is it? And if it's the earlier version then he really wasn't as dominant a midfielder or something paceme should be as worried about.

Of course, most will vote on the name and what it represents, not early rather normal Xavi. It's quite handy really.

What are you talking about.. I said the team isn't tika takka-ing its way up the pitch, but dominating the middle with short passes around Seedorf before raking passes out wide to Jairzinho/Ronaldinho.

I never once said I'm not playing a prime Xavi, why would anyone do that?