Decades Draft Tournament : AldoRaine18 vs Brwned

[Moby]

The aim of this poll is to decide which team will win based on all the players being at their respective peaks. The player profiles have been linked in both tactics so please go through them to read a brief description about all the players involved in the game!

AldoRaine's tactics

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My team is employing a 4-2-3-1 on the face but it is a very fluid and flexible formation.​

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The defense is comprised of the Boca legend Roma, having immense athleticism and reflexes, putting his body across to save long shots. He'd a reliable presence at the back. Defending him is the much complimenting duo of Vidic and Hansen. Hansen will be the ball playing defender, using his calm presence to not only anticipate anything that comes his way but also play it out with great effect, while Vidic is going to be the stopper. They will have Villa in their pocket. To add to that, there is our skipper, the serbian monster Nemanja VIdic. The hard as nails defender is suitable to take out any aerial threats. They are flanked by the best defensive right back of all time in Lilian Thuram, the rock solid WC winning french man is there to be defensive. On the other side there is Zambrotta, occasional attacking runs yes, but concentrate on your man is his instruction.​

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The midfield is marshalled by Frank Rijkaard, one of the best defensive midfielders of all time. Added to him is the Spanish creative deep lying playmaker Alonso. Clearly Rijkaard will be taking care of defensive duties being helped out by Alonso while he maintains the tempo from the deep and starts attacks.​

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They are giving the ball to a devastating front 4. The most intelligent brain the sport has seen in Cruyff, with one of the most complete players of all time in Gullit and a great goal scoring AM in Zico. They have everything you can ask for. Insane creativity and imagination, skill, technique, physicality, pace, goals, records, ballon d'ors.​

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Up front is Der Bomber, Gerd Muller. His job is to get goals, hah surprise surprise.​

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Why I will win :​

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1. 3 out of his 4 attacking players can be nullified. Figo has no chance against Thuram, he will be in his pocket. Rijkaard is as good as it can get to take care of Charlton, while Villa will be in Hansen's pocket all day.​

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2. Muller cannot be stopped. As much as I like Rio and Bergomi, they will struggle against the devastating goal scoring ability of Muller.​

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3. His Goal threat is considerably less. As said, his man up front is not having a touch of the ball which means all his goal threat relies on long rangers or Bestie, who was not a terrific goal scorere. While I on the other hand have two of the finest goalscorers of all time in Zico and Muller. I will outscore him, hence winning the game.​

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4. He has two left backs. While Camacho and Brehme are good on the right, they were primarily left backs and would be out of their comfort zones. If Brehme plays on the left he is not getting anything against Thuram and Gullit. If Brehme plays on the right, he will have to stay back and handle Cruyff. He cannot leave him and he is not suited for such a job.​

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5. Zico and Cruyff. That is one of the best attacking combinations you can ask for. They will overrun his midfield and I cannot see Edwards and Falcao having the anticipation and intelligence to stop them. They will be chasing shadows when these two start their buildups.​

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6. Best hates Cruyff. We all know about the famous incident where Best dropped all his concentration just to nutmeg Cruyff. He will be totally distracted by Cruyff on the same flank and will spend the whole game chasing him forgetting that he is the only hope for his team. (This point could be a little tongue in cheek.)​

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Goals wins games. he can rape Zambrotta all he wants, but he is not going to score, as simple as that. My midfield will not be overrun by having Gullit, Zico and Cruyff all helping out at all times.​

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Just before I leave.​

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Tactical Update. ​

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Cruyff has moved up field to play as a second striker. Seeing as there is no one guarding that side, he will exploit it. There is no way Falcao can have tabs on him anymore, not that he had much before.​

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Imagine a Messi circa 08-09 only on the left.​

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With Brehme being allowed to overlap, he is making sure Cruyff is one on one against Bergomi and by isolating him he will create the space for the like sof Muller, Gullit and Zico who will happily exploit that. Especially someone liek Gerd who had great movement and positioning. As good as Rio is, he ain't a Baresi to track Gerd's movement completely. And, Rio always that issue with lapse of concentration.​

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TEAM AldoRaine18​

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TEAM Brwned​

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Brwned's tactics

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A vote for Team Brwned is a vote for Duncan Edwards, Bobby Charlton, George Best and Rio Ferdinand - it's a no-brainer lads.​

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Click the image above for player profiles​

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Tactics​

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• Best-Brehme will destroy Zambrotta with Cruyff simply not having the discipline to track back all the way back to his fullback over and over again
• Once Zambrotta has inevitably been beaten Vidic will be dragged across to take on Best, and we all know how he struggles 1v1...once Vidic has been taken out of the picture Villa will be able to get free of the (now overburdened) Hansen to get a crisp shot in on goal or Best will happily dart straight to goal
• Charlton will drag Rijkaard every which way to engineer a bit of space for Falcão and Edwards to allow them to feed the widemen to do some serious damage, and when Charlton manages to wriggle free of a very formidable opponent he'll be the man given the task of getting strikes in from range to test Roma as Villa's sniffing around for the rebounds
• Figo will relish the lack of close attention and 1v1 all game he is bound to have the beating of Thuram on occasion, with Villa lurking in the box ready to get free of Vidic and score past him as he did in the 2011 Champions League final

Opposition

• Will Zico, Cruyff and Gullit be the ultimate interchanging attacking midfield trio or will they find it tough not being the dominant player in attack as they were in every team the played in at their peak (unlike Figo with Zidane, Charlton with Best or Edwards, Falcão with Zico etc.)? It's all or nothing. Will Cruyff have the discipline to recognise he's the best man to sacrifice his game and act as a target man and partner for Müller?​
• Will Alonso be able to compete at this level against a near-flawless midfield of Charlton, Edwards and Falcão? My only weak link on the other hand is up against Vidic, a man he scored against in a CL final when Vidic was at his peak, and an admittedly very classy Alan Hansen who - while undoubtedly great - is not at the level of any of my midfielders in his position.​
• Has Zambrotta got any chance?​
• My main worry here is the outstanding Gerd Müller. He just gets the goal no matter who he's playing against and on what occasion. My only hope is he's limited to just a few chances (and just the one goal!) because of an outstanding centre back partnership and the personality clashes going on with the creative players behind him. If they manage to sort out their differences and come together as one cohesive unit then I'll need Camacho at the top of his game to deal with Gullit, I'll need my midfield duo + Brehme to keep tabs on Cruyff and Zico as best they can and I'll need Charlton to monitor the flow of the game and initially keep an eye on Rijkaard in the hope that Alonso's overwhelmed and just can't get into the game.​

 

[Moby]

Brwned has Brehme and Best doubling up on Zambrotta, leaving Cruyff completely open. Any time the ball is won back Hansen or Alonso can lob it to him wide open.

A suicide IMO.

 

[Brwned]

Brehme staying back to handle Cruyff? What is this madness?! If Cruyff is staying out on the left wing then you've got him playing at 50%.

Anyway, here's the profiles:

Sepp Maier: 3x German Footballer of the Year; 4 leagues, 4 German Cups, 3 European Cups, 1 World Cup and 1 Euro and that Maier-Beckenbauer-Muller axis was at the heart of each and every success. The fact he’s mentioned alongside arguably the greatest defender and striker of all-time tells you all you need to know about his standing in goalkeeping terms. One of just a handful of keepers to be named in the top 5 in the Ballon d’Or - Schmeichel, Kahn, Buffon and Casillas are the only ones since 1990. IFFHS named him the 4th best keeper of the century behind Yashin, Banks and Zoff. He didn’t possess outstanding reflexes to the level of Kahn or Schmeichel but his positioning and reading of the game are about as good as it gets and his consistency and reliability are outlined by the fact he didn’t miss a league game for 13 seasons in a row.

Andreas Brehme: Perhaps Germany’s most complete fullback in history, certainly their most two-footed player in history. 1989 Serie A POTY. Not known for terrific pace or strength unlike the majority of modern fullbacks, he was a cerebral player with great vision and awareness (which allowed him to play in midfield numerous times). A great passer and top class crosser, any striker would love to have him supplying him. Good enough for the Dutch total football 2.0 side of the late 80s/early 90s to dedicate a man-marker to him in the quarter-final of a World Cup - how many fullbacks have demanded that level of attention?

Rio Ferdinand: “A Rolls Royce of a footballer”, “one of the greatest defenders in [Manchester United’s] history”, “the greatest English centre-half since Bobby Moore”. Simply the perfect modern centre back with a combination of aerial strength, pace, power, intelligence and composure that very few defenders in history have possessed.

Giuseppe Bergomi: His nickname "Lo Zio" (The Uncle) disguises the combative, warrior-like nature of the man which, combined with his exceptional reading of the game, allowed him to mark the likes of Rummenigge, van Basten, Gullit and Maradona completely out of games. Much like Rio he possesses all the traits you’d want in a modern defender but with that extra bit of Italian grit and guile. His consistency is reflected in the fact he’s one of just a handful of players to play in four World Cups and/or play 750 games for a top club.

Jose Antonio Camacho: 9 league titles, 5 Spanish Cups and 2 Uefa Cups - above all this man was a winner. He possessed the intelligence and cultured left foot to allow him to drop back into the role of sweeper as he grow older while having the speed and tenacity to establish himself as one of the top fullbacks in the world for a number of years. He was an also an excellent man-marker as Kempes attested: “He was like a hunting dog; wherever you went on the pitch, he went. You knew that if you looked over your shoulder, he'd be there waiting for you. He didn't talk either, he just breathed in a very strange way - "Fsst, fsst, fsst, fsst"! A real nightmare."

Duncan Edwards - The English Lothar Matthäus - in other words he possessed the ability to influence the game in all areas of the pitch. He was quick across the ground, a powerful runner, a great range of passing, strong in the air, uncompromising on the ground, a lethal shot and a unflappable winning mentality. In the 25 years following the inception of the Ballon d’Or only two all-round centre mids made it into the top three - Beckenbauer and Edwards. In the entire history of the Ballon d’Or these two players were the only all-round centre mids to appear in there at 21 or under. There’s no question he was an exceptional player even in his short career at the top level.

Paulo Roberto Falcão - The brain of the last great Brazil side, the best player in an Internacional side that won the Brazilian league undefeated (which has yet to be repeated) and the best player in a Roma side which won its first title in over 40 years and reached the only European Cup final in its history. Also named the best Brazilian player in consecutive seasons in 1978 and 1979 and named third and second best player in the world in 1982 and 1983 respectively by Onze Mondial. He possessed a near-perfect blend of hard work/leadership with skill/intelligence in a way perhaps only Redondo has since.

Bobby Charlton: Perhaps the most elegant player to wear the club’s shirt due to his ability to glide past players with a little swivel of the hips, his effortless passing off either foot and his classy first touch. Arguably the best player we’ve ever had. He spent his first few years playing as a forward in which he scored 71 goals in 125 games between the ages of 20-23 making good use of his explosive strikes. He then moved out to the left wing for a couple of seasons and became more of a provider and team-player displaying his dribbling and burst of pace that he became known for before finally settling in a deeper midfield role using his excellent passing range to good effect. All-time top scorer for England and United, over 750 appearances for United and the only English player to win the Ballon d’Or.

• George Best on Charlton: "I've never seen anyone go past players as easily as he did."
• Alan Ball on Charlton: "Bobby Charlton had gifts to die for. He was basically a quiet man whose talking came from the magic of his boots. Wherever you went in the world the foreign football fans knew everything about Bobby Charlton. He was our Pele."

Luis Figo: As Cruyff said - Figo had everything. Above all he had remarkable close control and exceptional awareness/vision for an out-and-out winger. Some have described him as possessing a combination of the wing wizardry of a young Giggs with the playmaking ability of Giggs in his 30s. He startedand ended his career in midfield, but at his Ballon d’Or winning peak he would tie the opposition fullback in knots all game before finding a team-mate with a pin-point cross or releasing an explosive, match-winning shot from either foot.

George Best: George was unique, the greatest talent our football ever produced — easily!
Sir Alex Ferguson

I'd give all the Champagne I've ever drunk to be playing alongside him in a big European match at Old Trafford.
Eric Cantona

He was able to use either foot - sometimes he seemed to have six.
Sir Matt Busby

David Villa: Scored 20+ goals for 10 seasons in a row from the age of 20. All-time top scorer for Spain with 38 goals in his last 54 international games. Top scorer in Euro 2008 and joint top scorer in World Cup 2010 And of course he's the one that scored the winner in the 2012 CL final. He's right up there with the greatest goalscorers of this century and his all-round game is good enough to see him play alongside a strike partner or from a nominal wide position. Class all-round.

 

[Moby]

Brehme staying back to handle Cruyff? What is this madness?! If Cruyff is staying out on the left wing then you've got him playing at 50%.

He's not playing on the wing, but your CBs are already occupied with Muller and an incoming Zico. You cannot have one of them dealing with Cruyff.

So are you having Falcao looking at Cruyff? Who is looking at Cruyff when you lose the ball?

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Most even that I have voted on.. took me a while to choose, good luck lads

 

[Buchan]

I love the 'to-and-fros' that occur in these threads.

Let the battles commence!

 

[Brwned]

Unless I'm man-marking Cruyff - which is an option later in the game - then no one man is taking Cruyff on. Likewise with Zico. Bergomi, Brehme and Camacho have all played in multiple positions in defence, Rio is comfortable out wide and 1v1 (as we know) and my midfielders are all exceptionally well rounded. They're all intelligent enough to pick up the right men depending on the situation. That said if Cruyff is stuck out wide I'm happy to leave Brehme back to look after him...

Bergomi and Rio are not both on Muller, come on. Bergomi will pull out wide when necessary and Rio is on Muller with Camacho dropping back in (which he's entirely comfortable with seeing as he played as a sweeper in a World Cup), Zico's in the midfield battle or your midfield is sadly getting overrun.

 

[Moby]

Unless I'm man-marking Cruyff - which is an option later in the game - then no one man is taking Cruyff on. Likewise with Zico. Bergomi, Brehme and Camacho have all played in multiple positions in defence, Rio is comfortable out wide and 1v1 (as we know) and my midfielders are all exceptionally well rounded. They're all intelligent enough to pick up the right men depending on the situation. That said if Cruyff is stuck out wide I'm happy to leave Brehme back to look after him...

It is not about man marking, but you cannot leave him completely open to receive the ball when I have two great long range passer in the team. If Rio goes to deal with him, good luck for Bergomi and Camacho to handle the flash of lightening quick wave that is Gullit-Zico-Muller. The pace in that means your defenders will not have enough time to cover as my attack starts which is why you need someone to guard against it in a pre emptive way.

So, Once Zico moves into the edge of the box with Muller waiting inside and Cruyff receive the ball with no one covering him and Rio rushing out to deal with it you'd be in a load of trouble.

And as good as Rio is in 1v1, this is a man after whom a trick is named, mainly to beat players in 1v1. Again , good luck with that.

 

[Moby]

The 80s match up.

We both have two players who honestly don't belong at this level. Difference is Alonso is surrounded with Rijkaard, Zico, Cruyff and Gullit so at any time he feels he is in trouble he can bail himself out by finding the options close by him, and he is a very intelligent player who has played in Spain's precise tiki taka system to do that.

Villa on the other hand, is done for. He is isolated. No one is helping him out with Figo getting slapped down by Thuram and Charlton trying to evade Rijkaard. His best chance is Best drawing Vidic out and leaving him 1v1 with Hansen, which should be in my favour.

Where are your goals mate?

 

[Brwned]

So you're leaving Zico-Gullit-Cruyff as part of the attack with just Alonso and Rijkaard getting behind the ball when I'm in possession, or can they magically be in two places at once? Zico's not racing away from Falcao and Edwards can keep tabs on Cruyff, but primarily it'll be Bergomi who's coming out to deal with Cruyff on the counter.

The idea that Figo is getting taken out of the game by Thuram is mental, I'm afraid, but I'm not going to bother arguing against it. He's this mythical defensive right back now. As for Vidic being able to deal with Best, well...

 

[Stobzilla]

A trick which has been repeated since and defenders in Rio's generation are more than capable of dealing with. It'll need more than a cheeky turn to do him in a 1v1.

Also, I am scared of voting in this one. Such fine margins.

 

[Fergus' son]

Great game, brilliant write ups.

Main points for me so far:

Brwneds midfield is far more complete. Edwards and Falcao can provide additional threats pushing forward and Charlton defensively that I just can't envisage Alonso/Rijkaard and Zico providing to the same extent.

Brwneds goals threat pales into insignificance compared to the opposition and he has no goat CBs to counter that threat. Aldo will score.

Aldo has no width, which at this moment looks like its playing into the oppositions hands.

Not sure how much can be made of the two left backs point considering what we've heard about that issue during the draft so far, either way I like Brehme on both sides and he's proven to be great on either too.

I worry for the whole of Aldos left side, with Cruyff cutting in I consider every player to be slightly out of their depth.

Why Thuram when he's not even up against Best? Should've been Zanetti, attacking on that side looks a little weak now.

Added to the fact that I think Villa isnt good enough for this stage of the draft, I actually prefer him coming in off the left and particularly dislike him up too in this set up.

The tounge in cheek point is more than a little tounge in cheek!

 

[Moby]

So you're leaving Zico-Gullit-Cruyff as part of the attack with just Alonso and Rijkaard getting behind the ball when I'm in possession, or can they magically be in two places at once? Zico's not racing away from Falcao and Edwards can keep tabs on Cruyff, but primarily it'll be Bergomi who's coming out to deal with Cruyff on the counter.

Do you think that will really happen? All our hard working players, at most if any stays a little forward it will be Cruyff. It was quite inaccurate of you to say he doesn't have the discipline to cover Brehme going forward, while I will obviously not ask him to do that, under Michels he won the ball in defense plenty of times.

To simplify, Gullit will be the most helpful when it comes helping midfield out, while Zico and Cruyff stay in close vicinity available for counters. Now, you are wasting Falcao if you are spending him to look after Zico, same with Edwards. Both these players played alongside more defensive partners to get freedom to go forward and you will just not get the same quality if you restrict them to defensive duties.

Are Falcao and Edwards even on the same wavelength?

 

[Moby]

A trick which has been repeated since and defenders in Rio's generation are more than capable of dealing with. It'll need more than a cheeky turn to do him in a 1v1.

Also, I am scared of voting in this one. Such fine margins.

He will obviously not just resort to that everytime he gets the ball. The point was to say that in a 1v1, Cruyff's not getting stopped with the players Brwned has. It took a monumental performance from Vogts to do that.

 

[Brwned]

Cruyff will not have the discipline to track Brehme all the way back to the fullback area throughout the game, let's not get silly here. It's Cruyff. He does what he wants.

Who did Edwards play alongside that was the more defensive partner?

 

[Moby]

Cruyff will not have the discipline to track Brehme all the way back to the fullback area throughout the game, let's not get silly here. It's Cruyff. He does what he wants.

Who did Edwards play alongside that was the more defensive partner?

Which is not what I am asking him to do as I said. But can he drop occasionally and take the ball back, yes he can. He won't much so no point of going much into it. You are portraying him like a glorified Riquelme though.

It is tough to say that about Edwards given the formations he played in, but a lot of his strengths were in going forward and gliding past players. Falcao had Cerezo.

 

[Fergus' son]

Sanchez is a huge miss for Brwned, him meeting a Brehme cross from the right, with Zambrotta and Alonso occupied and completely out of their depth vs Best, would've been the most likely route to goal. Villa replacing him is a huge downgrade IMO but perhaps unavoidable for brwned considering his opposition has a great midfield with wingers that contribute in that area too, he needed Falcao.

Agreeing more with Aldo about Cruyff, perhaps he will be a little put out by constantly having to track Brehme but Brehme tracking him is by far the bigger issue, Cruyff is the greatest total footballer, he can defend and fill into position when need be. Asking him to do too much of it is the issue because it takes away from what he does best and stops him coming centrally to affect the game.

Better fullbacks and I'e probably be siding with Aldo I reckon, as it is it's still a bit too close to call.

 

[Brwned]

All I said was Cruyff was leaving Brehme free because he wouldn't play a disciplined role - nothing more. And he is.

Edwards was (primarily) a left-half in front of a back three, his role was defensive in its nature. He could just do that and more. Having Keane alongside Scholes - a much less defensively capable partner than Falcao - didn't limit Keane, did it? Cerezo wasn't a defensive midfielder either, he wasn't one to just sit there and mop things up like Mauro Silva - Falcao got through a load of work and is perfectly suited to being alongside a midfield dynamo, as was made very clear in '82. Edwards occupies that role very well.

 

[Thisistheone]

Aldo has a fantastic team. Lacks some width on the right though. And is Alonso up to this level?

Villa feels like a step down from Sanchez, to me.

 

[Moby]

Edwards was (primarily) a left-half in front of a back three, his role was defensive in its nature. He could just do that and more. Having Keane alongside Scholes - a much less defensively capable partner than Falcao - didn't limit Keane, did it? Cerezo wasn't a defensive midfielder either, he wasn't one to just sit there and mop things up like Mauro Silva - Falcao got through a load of work and is perfectly suited to being alongside a midfield dynamo, as was made very clear in '82. Edwards occupies that role very well.

See, it is tricky. I completely agree about your description of Falcao, he is well rounded no doubt, but he is not the perfect man to take care of someone like Zico. He just isn't. There was a reason Rijkaard was my first pick and it was exactly this, you need a player to mop up and break up play constantly. I know Cerezo wasn't a pure DM but he stayed back a lot more than Falcao who was found on the edge of the box a fair few times.

As for Edwards, I won't argue much. I am not questioning his defensive duties but you yourself thought of him having at his best when he has freedom to go forward when you thought of Toure as a DM and then went to Carrick. Falcao's nowhere near that role you wanted to partner Bug Dunc with.

And the last question, didn't Edwards and Falcao play in contrasting setups? I am not saying mine are the second coming of Pep's barca, but there is still more familiarity with the dutch players in there who can be a little more compatible. In a tight game that matters.

In all honesty I don't feel Edwards and Falcao is an ideal double pivot against players like Zico and Cruyff who need serious attention at all times.

 

[Brwned]

This David Villa stuff is silly. Here you have Villa in #77, Figo after him in #85, Hansen and Vidic of course nowhere to be seen and Hugo Sánchez on the list that just missed out. This isn't a definitive list at all and I don't agree with all of those particular placements but it shows how Villa's being underrated now. He will be Spain's top scorer for a long, long time, and he did it while finishing top scorer in Euro 2008, joint top scorer in World Cup 2010 and he was unquestionably their most important player in that World Cup win. He's ideally suited to playing at the head of a star-studded attack. This idea he's somehow not in this class is mental, but entirely expected. I just can't understand how people weren't making an issue of van Nistelrooy being in the team before.

If people are seriously seeing him as a weak link and Alonso's getting a free ride it makes my head hurt. I might as well have played Yaya Toure given how this weak link in the most important part of the pitch is just being completely overlooked.

 

[Moby]

Aldo has a fantastic team. Lacks some width on the right though. And is Alonso up to this level?

Villa feels like a step down from Sanchez, to me.

Yeah won't go on about that much. It is eventually going turn a bit narrow which is why Thuram was vital. He can deal with most threats without much support from a winger with Gullit free to help out whichever area needs help, in defense or in attack. That is exactly how he played at his best, he was never a player to stick to one part of the pitch, and would pop up where needed. He does has the skillset to provide width which I have argued before. He has pace, and close control that made Brwned's ace Best say that he is as good as Maradona. He can easily get the better of Camacho in a 1v1 IMO.

 

[Moby]

This David Villa stuff is silly. Here you have Villa in #77, Figo after him in #85, Hansen and Vidic of course nowhere to be seen and Hugo Sánchez on the list that just missed out. This isn't a definitive list at all and I don't agree with all of those particular placements but it shows how Villa's being underrated now. He will be Spain's top scorer for a long, long time, and he did it while finishing top scorer in Euro 2008, joint top scorer in World Cup 2010 and he was unquestionably their most important player in that World Cup win. He's ideally suited to playing at the head of a star-studded attack. This idea he's somehow not in this class is mental, but entirely expected. I just can't understand how people weren't making an issue of van Nistelrooy being in the team before.

If people are seriously seeing him as a weak link and Alonso's getting a free ride it makes my head hurt.

Underrating not the player, but his role. At Euro 08 he had Torres, at Barca he had Messi. That is the support he needs, else he gets isolated which is why he much prefers drifting off and creating space. In the WC he played on the left, you are not playing him on the left.

He will be isolated, no question. Both Vidic and Hansen have dealt with bigger threats. He will have the worst game on the pitch, with Zambrotta and Alonso on and that is saying something.

 

[Fergus' son]

This David Villa stuff is silly. Here you have Villa in #77, Figo after him in #85, Hansen and Vidic of course nowhere to be seen and Hugo Sánchez on the list that just missed out. This isn't a definitive list at all and I don't agree with all of those particular placements but it shows how Villa's being underrated now. He will be Spain's top scorer for a long, long time, and he did it while finishing top scorer in Euro 2008, joint top scorer in World Cup 2010 and he was unquestionably their most important player in that World Cup win. He's ideally suited to playing at the head of a star-studded attack. This idea he's somehow not in this class is mental, but entirely expected. I just can't understand how people weren't making an issue of van Nistelrooy being in the team before.

If people are seriously seeing him as a weak link and Alonso's getting a free ride it makes my head hurt. I might as well have played Yaya Toure given how this weak link in the most important part of the pitch is just being completely overlooked.

Some fair points there, Eto'o was similarly underrated. Still don't think he's best suited to your team at all though and all his memorable performances have come in specific set ups, still best on the left IMO...

 

[Brwned]

Underrating not the player, but his role. At Euro 08 he had Torres, at Barca he had Messi. That is the support he needs, else he gets isolated which is why he much prefers drifting off and creating space. In the WC he played on the left, you are not playing him on the left.

He will be isolated, no question. Both Vidic and Hansen have dealt with bigger threats. He will have the worst game on the pitch, with Zambrotta and Alonso on and that is saying something.

Yes, saying he will have the worst game on the pitch rather than Zambrotta is certainly saying something. What exactly that something is I don't know. Smells like bullshit to me.

Villa can't play up top on his own, right. So when he scored the goal in the quarter-final v Paraguay, perhaps his most important goal of the tournament, didn't he do so when he was up top on his own? When playing for Valencia all those years, scoring 20+ goals in every season, didn't he do so from playing up top on his own? Nah, let's erase that from history. Left wing, that's where you want him.

 

[Moby]

Some fair points there, Eto'o was similarly underrated. Still don't think he's best suited to your team at all though and all his memorable performances have come in specific set ups...

Exactly why I was saying him to pick Ronaldo and put Villa on the left. He'd run the channel between Thuram and Hansen better than Figo and Ronaldo will add the goal threat he needed. He knew I would have Alonso in midfield so he could have done with Yaya in there I think. I would have gone for Ronaldo if I were him.

 

[Moby]

Yes, saying he will have the worst game on the pitch rather than Zambrotta is certainly saying something. What exactly that something is I don't know. Smells like bullshit to me.

Villa can't play up top on his own, right. So when he scored the goal in the quarter-final v Paraguay, perhaps his most important goal of the tournament, didn't he do so when he was up top on his own?

So you are saying he will get the better of Hansen who has the sole job of taking care of him? A man that kept a clean sheet against Rummenigge?

You'd be silly if you try to point out that he played better up front in the WC. Majority of his goals came from the left, even in Euro 08 his goal against Sweden which was a late winner was him dribbling from the left. Your setup deems him useless really.

You seriously are struggling for goals here, not saying you will not score any but you have to outscore Zico and Muller, keep that in mind.

 

[Brwned]

Some fair points there, Eto'o was similarly underrated. Still don't think he's best suited to your team at all though and all his memorable performances have come in specific set ups, still best on the left IMO...

Are we talking about the same player here? Villa scored 58 goals and got 17 assists in 85 appearances at Valencia in the two seasons prior to that World Cup and he did so as a lone forward, with Silva-Mata-Joaquín behind him. Playing wide left was seen as a surprise in 2010 and was questioned by most when he moved to Barcelona.

 

[Brwned]

So you are saying he will get the better of Hansen who has the sole job of taking care of him? A man that kept a clean sheet against Rummenigge?

You'd be silly if you try to point out that he played better up front in the WC. Majority of his goals came from the left, even in Euro 08 his goal against Sweden which was a late winner was him dribbling from the left. Your setup deems him useless really.

You seriously are struggling for goals here, not saying you will not score any but you have to outscore Zico and Muller, keep that in mind.

I don't know what keeping a clean sheet against Rummenigge means. The team did that, and that's not a very exceptional thing. There's surely better arguments for Hansen than that.

He was best up front. Anyone who watched him for Valencia would tell you that. At Valencia he had Mata as the winger-cum-playmaker from the left - read Figo - and Joaquín as the wing wizard - read Best - and Silva was the man behind him giving him almost no support as a forward player, unlike Charlton here who was a forward to begin with. This is mad.

Your team has nice goalscoring records but no clear route to goal and no clear weakness to attack. Mine, on the other hand, has both. Best will create goals here. It's a given.

 

[Moby]

No clear route to attack? I gave you one in my first post.

 

[Brwned]

You've said your players are really skilful and intelligent and full of goals and then left them to do the rest. That may well work but it isn't a route to goal. It's just a mismash of nice looking players with no real concept of how they'll combine and create chances.

What can you tell us about the keeper Roma, by the way? Is he up to it?

 

[Theon]

Tough one this.. I think Brwned is definitely winning the midfield battle with Falcao controlling from deep next to big Duncan, then you also have Charlton helping out more than Zico, and obviously the worst midfielder is Alonso who is clearly out his depth compared with the other five

Aldo has the bigger goal threat though with Zico/Muller as devastating combo, but then doesn't have the same width in attack as Best/Figo

 

[Moby]

Cruyff's having a free ride here. He has the whole flank to himself if needs it, drawing Rio/Bergomi out at will and playing in the ball with two of the deadliest predators waiting to latch on.

You on the other hand have all your eggs in one basket, it is Best. He'd have the same time against Zambrotta as Muller will have against your Cbs, maybe a little more but Muller is in a lot more dangerous area there. I wasn't going to big up Zambrotta obviously but you are portraying him like he is not there, he is a World Cup winner and was one of the best fullbacks in his league, has tremendous pace and stamina. Again, don't go overboard by saying he will get destroyed, while we both agree that he is a weakness against best.

I have two brilliant passers from deep. I have a player like Gullit who can drop into midfield and buildup from there. I have Cruyff having acres of space as soon as Falcao goes forward. I am well equipped to take care of Charlton, both his attacking play from deep and his aerial ability.

Saying I have no route to goal when your forward is facing a 3 time European Cup winner (one of the game where he put Falcao's Roma back to their place) and one of the best players of one of the most dominant European outfits, is quite harsh.

 

[Moby]

Tough one this.. I think Brwned is definitely winning the midfield battle with Falcao controlling from deep next to big Duncan, then you also have Charlton helping out more than Zico, and obviously the worst midfielder is Alonso who is clearly out his depth compared with the other five

Aldo has the bigger goal threat though with Zico/Muller as devastating combo, but then doesn't have the same width in attack as Best/Figo

Which is where Gullit comes in. He will drop into midfield in a case of my midfield getting overrun. I admit about not having width, but width doesn't automatically provide goals specially when the forward is completely out of his depth.

 

[Isotope]

I'm in love with Aldo's no. 10s moving around behind Muller, and just interchangeably working on space. Rijkaard there (who imho just the best DM of all time) is one of my fave player.

But Brwned's midfield trio, just seems indestructible. Then there's Best.

Dang it. This is really hard. I usually voted on team who is most likely to have more possession, but can't separate these two.

 

[Thisistheone]

Tough one this.. I think Brwned is definitely winning the midfield battle with Falcao controlling from deep next to big Duncan, then you also have Charlton helping out more than Zico, and obviously the worst midfielder is Alonso who is clearly out his depth compared with the other five

Aldo has the bigger goal threat though with Zico/Muller as devastating combo, but then doesn't have the same width in attack as Best/Figo

Probably, but Charlton is a goal scoring machine. Utd's all time top scorer. There's a lot of goals in Brwned's side.

I'm finding this a very tough one to vote on.

 

[Theon]

Which is where Gullit comes in. He will drop into midfield in a case of my midfield getting overrun. I admit about not having width, but width doesn't automatically provide goals specially when the forward is completely out of his depth.

Oh of course, never meant it like that at all. You've seen me go for diamonds so I'm not seeing as something you MUST have.

It was just a general point thought that you have the bigger goal threat, but Brwned has more width which helps with creativity.

 

[Moby]

Oh of course, never meant it like that at all. You've seen me go for diamonds so I'm not seeing as something you MUST have.

It was just a general point thought that you have the bigger goal threat, but Brwned has more width which helps with creativity.

Yeah. But then one of the wingers is in a battle with Thuram, who can really provide a great man marking job on him, Which also reduces his effectiveness from wide areas.

 

[Theon]

Probably, but Charlton is a goal scoring machine. Utd's all time top scorer. There's a lot of goals in Brwned's side.

I'm finding this a very tough one to vote on.

Definitely.

Again, I wasn't trying to downplay Brwned goal threat, in the same way I'm not downplaying Aldo's route to creating chances.

At this level all teams will have great attacks - overall though Aldo has the more proven goalscorers, Brwned has the more cohesive and balanced attack.

 

[Fergus' son]

Are we talking about the same player here? Villa scored 58 goals and got 17 assists in 85 appearances at Valencia in the two seasons prior to that World Cup and he did so as a lone forward, with Silva-Mata-Joaquín behind him. Playing wide left was seen as a surprise in 2010 and was questioned by most when he moved to Barcelona.

Yeah, but none of that is what makes him an all time draft player, it was his time at Barcelona and Spain that makes him an option and you're not utilising him in the same way, thus I don't think he really warrants his place on the pitch.