Thank You it's really infuriating when some of the posters reduce debate around De Gea suitability just in terms of traditional and Modern keeper , when fact of the matter is he lacks basic traits and attributes which are expected in any well rounded keeper and these deficiencies in his game would have made him liability in any Era. .
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I’ve seen no improvement on crosses with Henderson, except De Gea is more prone to punch where Henderson would catch. Henderson has also conceded soft aerial goals. As for the rest, they may be true, but matters little to me if you can’t save a shot.
Same height as Ederson, who I’d say is the best keeper in the league. Henderson’s handling is fine, as his shot stopping. Arsenal love their keeper who was a downgrade for Sheffield Utd. So who knows.
Henderson was consistently awful on corners and crosses, no idea what people have been watching if they think it's an area he's good at.
Really?
Henderson dealt with almost triple the amount of crosses per game in his performances last season than what De Gea has this season. He was in the 63rd percentile out of all goalkeepers in the top five leagues for his likelihood of stopping a cross. De Gea is in the 6th percentile.
This exaggeration of Henderson not being able to save a shot is a ridiculous trend I see on here. I remember two fairly soft goals he conceded in his period in the team last season, but I also remember quite a few great saves where people would be raving over them if it were De Gea. The same could really be said for De Gea as well, as over the last few years he's let in a lot of very soft goals while also making some highlight reel saves. Including this season where he's supposedly been back to close to his best.
In fact Henderson had a higher shots saved percentage last season than De Gea has in any of his last four seasons (have to go back to De Gea's last great season of 17/18 for him to be higher). He's not as capable of the true world class finger-tip saves that De Gea is, but it's hardly something that's a big weakness in his game.
He's not great, arguably not even good, at them. Yet what does that tell you when he's still significantly better than De Gea?
I also tend to think some of it was him trying too hard to show what he could do, same with a couple of the times he came charging out of the box to clear a ball that he perhaps shouldn't have. I really got the feeling he was trying too hard to show that he could do all the things that De Gea refuses to do, and with more game-time and trust put into him I would hope that he'd settle down a little. But even if he didn't and he stayed as risky in those moments as he was last season, I'd still prefer him at that level than De Gea's complete incompetence.
Based on what? Wikipedia? Henderson somehow manages to look comically small in the goal though. Probably because of his frame.
His handling is diabolical. His shot stopping is poor. He wouldn’t unseat most of the keepers in this league so why people want to delude themselves about his suitability here I have no idea. Home grown and English I guess, some people never learn.
So we are supposed to swap out a keeper who is exceptional at one thing and below average to bad at most others with one who is below average at everything?
That below average at everything keeper performed better than the supposed world class highest paid goalkeeper in the world last season.
Says more about DDG's overall game than it does about Henderson's unfortunately.
In Dean we trust.
Hope he gets the nod next season.
Hope he gets the nod next season.
I don't see any reason why Henderson should be number 1. Several goals against him could have been saved with even average shot stopping.
And he didn't really make us stronger on corners.
I don't think De Gea is the right keeper long term but Henderson is a sideways move at best.
Seems legit. Let's take a look if the facts back this up. In his one full season of Premier League football his PSxG was +5.2 which would be the third best in the league this season (and good enough for 8th across the top 5 leagues in Europe btw). De Gea in a supposedly world class season this year is sitting at +7.5.
That's without getting into his shot prevention statistics such as sweeping, average of 1.12 actions per game last season vs 0.24 per game for De Gea this season or crosses into the box, dealing with 8.6% last season vs De Gea's 3.1% this season. So essentially he's over four times more likely to prevent a shot on goal by sweeping behind the defenders and nearly three times more likely to prevent a shot on goal by dealing with a cross.
The issue people seem to be missing here is that nobody is saying Henderson is the definitive #1 going forward, it's the fact he is clearly the better fit of the goalkeepers currently available to us for this team and defence. And until we sign a new goalkeeper it is ridiculous that he hasn't been playing.
Comparing our defensive statistics last season with this seasons is just a total farce, for obvious reasons.
The reality is he cant be a better fit because he isn't good enough at the most important jobs he has to do. And the jobs De Gea can't do, Henderson is shit at as well.
Even though his shot stopping % and goals conceded are every bit as good as if not better than DDG. In his one full season with SU, he conceded 33 goals in 36 matches. DDG conceded 36 in 38. Henderson wipes the floor with him in all the sweeping and high ball metrics. Even last season he played half as many games and made as many if not more high ball claims and sweeper actions. This is all on the PL website under the player comparison tool.
I also love this asertation that he let's in soft goals. Seriously have a look back at the many soft goals that DDG has conceded this season and the previous 3. Then go back and look at the few of Henderson's goals that were soft and see which are worse. I can tell you, it won't be Dean's.
Maybe he's not the right long term fit, but he's a better option right now than DDG or spunking a pile of money on someone else.
That is tragic
Why is it? We were defensively dreadful with De Gea in goal as well last season, pretty much as soon as he came back into the team we stopped defending properly.
And literally every statistic shows that he's not shit at the jobs De Gea can't do; he's not even that far below De Gea at the only thing De Gea can do well.
Nobodies saying he's the best option long term but he is sure as hell a better option currently than a goalkeeper terrified of leaving his goal line in a team that wants to play with a high line.
This is not difficult to see and attempting to re-write history to downplay Henderson on the back of two errors last season (how many has De Gea made this year in a supposedly good season?!) is just nonsensical.
He's not good enough.
Luckily then both De Gea and Henderson played last season so we can compare them directly then. Henderson comes out on top there too.
In fact during the period that Henderson was in goal our defensive stats were comfortably better than they've been at any stage of the last four seasons that De Gea has been in goal. I presume you think that it was pure coincidence?
Comparing old statistics and then blaming De Gea on our collaps while completely ignoring the fact that we changed play style. Ole tried a more progressive style which our team wasnt and isnt cut out for.
Without De Gea's saves this season we would be in a much worse position.
Claiming Henderson would of done better is guess work at best.
I am guessing you have forgot about Henderson's nightmare show vs Milan as well?
If Ten Hag swaps De Gea for Henderson we will have our answer as to who the manager rates.
Neither is the answer long term.
I literally referenced it in the post - two errors - Milan and Liverpool. Neither of which were even on the same level as the horror show goals De Gea let in against Atalanta and Watford this season by the way but people just seem to want to ignore the basic goals he costs us on a regular basis.
What we changed our play style back and forth all last season did we? Because we conceded 22 goals in the 26 games Henderson played & 46 in the 36 De Gea played. Through Henderson's consistent run in the team we let in 4 goals in 8 league games, De Gea let in 4 in the 2 games vs Roma during that same period and was supposedly MOTOM which is exactly my point about how much more comfortable the team are with a more proactive goalkeeper behind them.
De Gea certainly isn't cut out to play behind a progressive, high line team, whereas both the eye test and the statistics back up the fact that Henderson is much more comfortable behind a high line. The team overall is certainly better suited to a higher line.
The fact that you've returned to the "without De Gea's saves this season we would be in a much worse position" shows that a) you don't seem to understand that saving shots is not all a goalkeeper is supposed to do and b) seems to suggest you think the alternative is playing with an open goal despite Henderson's shot stopping statistics being comfortably better than De Gea's over the previous few seasons.
The issue with De Gea and the one that I cannot believe people still can't grasp after he's been here for this length of time is that his only quality as a keeper which he is exceptional at his his shot stopping. He lacks in every other area which is one of the reasons he has to pull off all of these saves, which look fantastic but for me he's simply lacking as a top keeper. To that extent that someone like Henderson who has a better all around game is preferable if we ever want to get back on top. Remember last season or the season before when he stopped being exceptional at shot stopping and everyone wanted him gone because he was costing us games? Because he lost his one quality as a goal keeper. If a keeper only has a singular quality then you're asking for trouble when it fades.
De gea simply is terrified to come off of his line and always has been. Even when the ball is swung into the box he will rarely make an attempt to try and catch it instead defaulting to his goal line and deferring responsibility of his box to his centre backs. This leads to more shots on target which could have been prevented with a more proactive goal keeper and more wonder saves which are required, and also more goals leaked. The same thing applies to 1v1's and coming off of his line. His style of play adds to his reputation as a shot stopper as it necessitates the needs for these reactions saves instead of never actually needing to make them. Which is much more preferable.
De gea simply is terrified to come off of his line and always has been. Even when the ball is swung into the box he will rarely make an attempt to try and catch it instead defaulting to his goal line and deferring responsibility of his box to his centre backs. This leads to more shots on target which could have been prevented with a more proactive goal keeper and more wonder saves which are required, and also more goals leaked. The same thing applies to 1v1's and coming off of his line. His style of play adds to his reputation as a shot stopper as it necessitates the needs for these reactions saves instead of never actually needing to make them. Which is much more preferable.
Hendersons shot stopping isnt better than De Gea. That is simply silly to claim given the nature of goals he has conceded.
But regardless. My point is not that De Gea can play well in a high line, even if his distribution when he first arrived was quite good. He simply is to glued to his line.
My point is Henderson is not the answer either. And given we need funds to rebuild our team, swapping those two for a upgrade in some areas while downgrading shop stopping isnt enough of a gain to warrant it.
We can sell Henderson. We cannot sell De Gea.
Also the fact that you claim a goalkeeper isnt suppose to save shots is downright silly. Why not put Maguire in goal then...With him you would be certain he would leave his line...
The same people will take it for a fact that without Ronaldo's goals we would be in the relegation battle. Because if we didn't sign him, we would obviously be playing with 9 outfield players this season...
Agreed.
I was all for giving Henderson a shot, which Ole did, he just didn't take his chance is all. From what I've seen he appears to be a perfectly serviceable PL keeper, but not at the level we need and not worthy of replacing DDG.
Better to sell him (we won't be getting anything from DDG leaving so, rather cash in there) and either buy in a replacement or give one of our very promising youth keepers a go when they're ready to shake a claim.
Exactly. And precisely the resell value is important in this context. I am certain we can still get a good fee for Dean. Better to cash in and then look for a great upgrade on De Gea instead.
I said it had been better than De Gea's over the past few seasons, because it had been, I'll back it up if you wish:
PSxG
2018/19: De Gea +0.1 / Henderson no data - De Gea conceded 54 goals in 38 leagues games this season.
2019/20: De Gea +2.1 / Henderson +5.2
2020/21: De Gea +0.1 / Henderson +0.3 - caveat to this is that De Gea played 26 games, Henderson played 12, so De Gea had more than twice the game time to boost his number
2021/22: De Gea +7.5 / Henderson no data
Bare in mind this is the one statistic that De Gea is good at; sweeping & crosses he is one of the worst 2 goalkeepers in the league in, distribution, bottom third of the league.
I don't know how many times I need to repeat it btw, literally nobody is saying Henderson is the long term answer. However he is the best fit of the goalkeepers currently at the club, so if we don't want to spend money on a goalkeeper in the summer then we would be better suited with him in goal than De Gea.
I do agree he is a better fit to Ten Hag's system. Where we disagree is the amount of upgrade he provides, especially compared to a potential sale.
I think we could get a good fee for Dean still, while De Gea is not possible to sell.
With the amount of change needed in our squad that money could be put to good use. And given that I dont believe Henderson is the long term fix anyway we might as well get money for him while we can.
I agree we probably could get a good fee for him still while De Gea is pretty much worthless due to his contract, but the issue is that De Gea creates massive problems for us going forward that would remain as big problems if Henderson was sold, and likely be exacerbated with the way Ten Hag wants to play football. I'm not against selling Henderson, I genuinely don't know if he's the answer and there obviously are better fits out there; if we were selling Henderson and putting that money to relatively inexpensive Premier League goalkeeper who would be that better fit such as a Sanchez, a Sa or even a Raya, I'd get it, but if we were selling Henderson to continue with De Gea then it would just wouldn't make sense.
Managers look to implement their styles of play from the back, it's important to note that both Guardiola and Klopp both signed a goalkeeper and a centre back in their first seasons at City and Liverpool when it became apparent that the players currently in those spots at both clubs were not up to playing how they wanted them to - both then decided they needed a better goalkeeper again so went out and signed Ederson and Allisson. I would be very surprised if Ten Hag looks at United and doesn't see himself needing to do a similar rebuild. Due to the sheer number of areas we need to improve this summer, I don't see anything wrong with giving Henderson that opportunity for the coming season based on his previous performances as we transition to a different style of goalkeeper, and if he proves not up to the task then you push for someone likely to be that really top level goalkeeper like Mike Maignan in 2023.
What kind of fee do you think we could get for him? Personally I don't see us getting much after a season of not playing, certainly not enough to warrant selling him and retaining a keeper who has a negative impact on our entire team and playstyle by making it impossible to play a high line (not to mention De Gea's other weaknesses).
Either way we probably will have to upgrade further in a season or two, but I'd prefer to play the better all-round keeper in the meantime rather than sell him for a relatively small amount just because we 'can' sell him.
If there's even a remote chance the rumours of him being one of the main leakers are true then I want him gone. He's not good enough to be no.1 anyway.
Selling him would require buying a second keeper to come in just to achieve parity though, and then replacing De Gea in a couple of years when he declines, so it’s not just money in the bank. Unless you think that Heaton can step up as the second keeper, but that seems a risk. Selling anyone and speculating that another player will fill the gap is obviously cheaper in the short term, but unless you change the structure of your playing staff and decide that you only need 2 keepers not 3 then it seems like a problem shelved not a problem solved.
But he wasn't significantly better than De Gea, which is why he got benched. Henderson consistently struggled with positioning, especially during corners and crosses where he'd rush off the line and then start backtracking. It's rather easy, you either go for it or you don't.
Snap their hand off for 40mill surely?
What is Luckhurst reporting? Is it a loan or a 40 mil offer? Also, why would someone pay 40 mil for a keeper (Top 5 transfer fee for a GK) who isn’t even playing? I call BS on this one
I wouldn't even bother negotiating. If Newcastle offer that, we should really just take the money.
I don't think he will be good enough for United anyway.
How the feck are we paying a back up gk £110,000 a week 
…we really are a shambles.
…we really are a shambles.I believe its the wrong way around, Newcastle are consdering buying him for what would be around 40mill, Dean would be very interested in leaving because he wants regular football especially as the World Cup is coming up, however it's likely we will want to loan him as he has 3 years still left on his contract and we pay him high wages
Sell him, get Johnstone on a free transfer and use the 40m to sign Timber.
If Newcastle were to offer £40M, as highly unlikely as that sounds, then the club would be insane to turn it down. He's too good to spend his career sat on the bench, but he's not going to make it here so it would make sense for him to go somewhere where he'll play.
As others have said, the fact we're paying him £100,000 per week is.....not good. I can understand why, he was a hot property at the time with a potentially high transfer value and a chance of becoming our number one keeper. But that hasn't turned out that way and now we're paying him an excessive amount for virtually nothing.
As others have said, the fact we're paying him £100,000 per week is.....not good. I can understand why, he was a hot property at the time with a potentially high transfer value and a chance of becoming our number one keeper. But that hasn't turned out that way and now we're paying him an excessive amount for virtually nothing.
Let him go, he is better than de Gea on sweeping and passing but not to a level we need. De gea's contract expires next summer and we go for a top class progressive keeper. But we are probably going to loan Dean and extend De Gea whilst buying another keeper next summer.
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