Personally, I was far from impressed by Dean performance vs Leicester, but considering 6 clean sheets in his 7 matches before that, I can live with giving him another chance vs BHA. Yet, given the status (and salary) of de Gea, I think it’s more likely de Gea will start our next game
26
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 26
- Clean sheets
- 12
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
So suddenly status and salary are more important than performances? The fact that you can "live" with Henderson being given another chance is very noble of you, though.
But isn’t it what competition for places is about? A player keeps his place while he delivers, and a competitor is given a chance when he underperforms? There is valid ground to put de Gea in goal, there are also reasons to stick with Dean for the time being, and it also depends a lot on what’s going on behind the scenes. If the decision on David (to be disposed of in the summer) is made, Ole will likely continue playing Henderson, otherwise the competition is wide open
You have to decide on a number 1 GK eventually and the season is almost done. Put De Gea in goal, he makes a mistake instantly and then we put Henderson in next game, is that your suggestion? There has been enough evidence already this season, De Gea has had his 3rd awful season in a row, whilst Henderson has outperformed him in the most important metrics for a keeper and rightfully deserves to be made first choice until the end of the season.
Even if Henderson doesn't end up being the proper replacement, he's been better than De Gea for the last 2 season quite comfortably, he more than deserves the opportunity after obviously been promised by the manager to get chances to prove himself.
De Gea is the superior keeper and should be returned to first team duty. But I really like Henderson as our backup keeper.
Come on, Donnarumma is at a level Henderson will never reach.
And you base that on what - having watched them enough, comparing stats and ratings, media and former players praising his talent? Or maybe you've seen their potential on FIFA or FM and it's enough for you to make such a bold claim, is that it?
Yes, having watched them enough. Donnarumma is a freak athlete. Henderson is not. Nothing bold about that claim, Donnarumma is one of the best keepers in the world, Henderson doesn't have the talent to get there.
Only if we can fit him with a shock collar, and shock him every time he wusses out of a challenge or makes himself smaller so as not to mess up his hair.
Fair enough. To be honest, I'd definitely take Donnarumma on a free transfer after his contract expires. But we need to sell De Gea for that to happen.
We always have Inter to lean on.
They can't even pay for Lukaku who left two years ago.
Will have to do some type of Sanchez type deal to help DDG leave.
Even if someone thinks that DDG is better than Henderson, not sure we can justify him being 4 times better because that’s how much more he costs.
Even if someone thinks that DDG is better than Henderson, not sure we can justify him being 4 times better because that’s how much more he costs.
Is he though? De Gea has been poor for three seasons now, making regular mistakes and this season in particular not really making any saves that any other good keeper wouldn't have made.
Henderson might be good enough, he might not be. We simply haven't seen enough of him to make that call. Unless he keeps making poor mistakes he should be given the chance over the remainder of the season to show whether or not he deserves to be the #1 next season or if we should buy somebody new.
Agreed I would go as a far as saying that De Gea is washed up. Not necessarily that he's a bad keeper but the drop off in the consistency that he's shown from a few years ago to now is unbelievable. He's gone from frequently being compared to Neuer (few seasons ago) to being identified as a liability.
“Poor for three seasons” is a bit of hyperbole. Poor by his previous standard, sure. Poor, objectively, at times for three season, of course. But De Gea has not been consistently poor, relative to most other keepers, for the last three seasons.
In fact, he’s had a very good season in 20/21 but still short of his 5 (maybe it was 4) club POY performances.
The better argument is that De Gea is heading downward — he is, objectively, not at the peak he reached 3-4 years ago — and we should sell him while he’s still a quality keeper. But as it stands today, Dave > Dean.
I find all this goalkeeper technique analysis interesting. It's amazing how little of it we tend to get even with football being as well covered as it is.
Worth pointing out that in a below tweet he says he thinks Henderson is a top keeper and a great shot-stopper, so it's not just criticising him. Once you're aware of it though you do notice that he tends to set himself low like that.
I would imagine it's a bit of a trade off, he can get to lower shots faster but higher shots not so well.
Most decent strikers will be aiming for the bottom corners rather than straight down the keepers throat.
I thought Pickford was injured anyway?
Seems like it's just sub-optimal:
Apparently in the video of the training you can hear the GK coach encouraging both of them to set higher, so it is something that will be worked on at least. Pickford usually has the same tendency so I'm sure it's something that can be improved. Just think it's interesting generally.
Edit:
Also, apropos of abolutely nothing, look at the state of Kepa's technique. Henderson was criticised for swinging his arms a fraction of that.
Further to that Pickford for instance is a yard maybe yard and a bit further back on the line
Distance from goal-line something he mentioned in relation to one of the goals Leicester scored too:
Just to balance out these somewhat critical posts out though, here is a more positive one:
Seems like it's just sub-optimal:
Apparently in the video of the training you can hear the GK coach encouraging both of them to set higher, so it is something that will be worked on at least. Pickford usually has the same tendency so I'm sure it's something that can be improved. Just think it's interesting generally.
Edit:
Also, apropos of abolutely nothing, look at the state of Kepa's technique. Henderson was criticised for swinging his arms a fraction of that.
Fair enough, hopefully Henderson’s taking it on board.
kepa using the no hands technique? Impressive
Exactly, that is it. He crouches too low.
18/19 he was average most of the season then had an absolutely horrific last two months where he was just about throwing the ball into his own net every second game. He almost certainly cost us a top four spot that season with those performances.
19/20 he was average most of the season but with far too many mistakes.
20/21 he has been average at his best, certainly not a very good season. He's made at most two particularly good saves while he's been hugely at fault for at least five goals conceded, including two where he's literally chickened out and turned his back to avoid contact (one of which directly knocked us out of the CL). He did start the season playing a little better than he had the last two but that only lasted a month or so, and since then he's been having probably his worst season (not counting the terrible last two months of 18/19).
So in the last three seasons he's been average for most of it but with multiple poor periods and quite regular mistakes, and has also played a big part in us being knocked out (or not qualifying) for multiple competitions. Saying he's been poor isn't hyperbole at all. The poor has significantly outweighed the good, and for the rest of the time he's been just average. It's not like he's still pulling off the world-class saves that could make up for the mistakes.
Yep, fun to finally see.
Henderson’s stance is also a bit too wide typically & his weight on his feet is all screwy, his feet splayed outwards. He tends to root himself due to a wider stance & not generate lateral momentum to its fullest & a bit slower, most recently evidenced by not being able to stop the second goal the other day. He doesn’t create enough push with his legs to cover well enough laterally due to his stance being too wide typically.
All correctable, but a bit worrying that such fundamental errors still exist.
I'm not sure that's exactly right.
I think this season he has been average. In the previous seasons he has been a mix of very good and awful. Which I suppose evens out as average but is a slightly different thing.
Basically in 17/18 he was consistently excellent, in 18/19 he fluctuated wildly between excellent and awful, 19/20 he started badly but ended strong, 20/21 he started strong but then became average.
I make the distinction because in a way the recent average spell is the most worrying one. At least in the other seasons you could see he still had the capacity to be excellent, he was just having spells of fecking up. Whereas for most of this season he has got on top of the big errors but looks ordinary otherwise, which suggests less potential for improvement going forward despite obviously being a step up on his previous two seasons.
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Responding to two of the posts above, I submit that the word “average” can only be properly understood in the context of other keepers in the same data set...that is, other keepers in the PL.
We can confidently assert that Alisson and Ederson were superior to De Gea the previous two seasons, but I hope there is agreement here that Alisson has been shocking this season, at least by his standards. Ederson has been very solid this season, though I’m sure he’s made a few mistakes but no keeper goes a full season without making a few mistakes.
Beyond those two, there’s really no one in the league who’s been clearly and consistently superior to De Gea. You can argue several at his level, such as Schmeichel, but quite a few below De Gea’ as level. I wouldn’t swap Dave for Pope, Lloris, Pickford, Patricio or Leno. It’s just absurd to argue that Dave is an average keeper when he’s clearly in the top quintile in what is arguably the most competitive league on the planet.
The real issue are that Dave is off his peak of three seasons ago, he’s on massive wages, and we have a very promising keeper as his backup.
I would have no problem offloading Dave this summer and let Dean run with it, but let’s not delude ourselves into believing that Dean is the superior keeper today.
If we do give the job to Dean we should prepare ourselves to witness bad mistakes that will cost us points as he grows into the job, one of the most demanding and intensely scrutinized jobs in all of sport — starting keeper for Manchester United.
If we’re going to launch a proper PL trophy run next season we should keep Dave, who has vastly greater experience and is the superior keeper today. But if the master plan is to build the squad to the point where we make that run in 22/23 (we shall assess the board’s commitment to trophies by its actions this summer) then we of course we should offload Dave now, give Dean the experience he needs in 21/22.
We can confidently assert that Alisson and Ederson were superior to De Gea the previous two seasons, but I hope there is agreement here that Alisson has been shocking this season, at least by his standards. Ederson has been very solid this season, though I’m sure he’s made a few mistakes but no keeper goes a full season without making a few mistakes.
Beyond those two, there’s really no one in the league who’s been clearly and consistently superior to De Gea. You can argue several at his level, such as Schmeichel, but quite a few below De Gea’ as level. I wouldn’t swap Dave for Pope, Lloris, Pickford, Patricio or Leno. It’s just absurd to argue that Dave is an average keeper when he’s clearly in the top quintile in what is arguably the most competitive league on the planet.
The real issue are that Dave is off his peak of three seasons ago, he’s on massive wages, and we have a very promising keeper as his backup.
I would have no problem offloading Dave this summer and let Dean run with it, but let’s not delude ourselves into believing that Dean is the superior keeper today.
If we do give the job to Dean we should prepare ourselves to witness bad mistakes that will cost us points as he grows into the job, one of the most demanding and intensely scrutinized jobs in all of sport — starting keeper for Manchester United.
If we’re going to launch a proper PL trophy run next season we should keep Dave, who has vastly greater experience and is the superior keeper today. But if the master plan is to build the squad to the point where we make that run in 22/23 (we shall assess the board’s commitment to trophies by its actions this summer) then we of course we should offload Dave now, give Dean the experience he needs in 21/22.
I find this page very intresting. Where cN read more about goalkeeping techniques?
Faster than Dan James, as good a finisher as Harry Kane, and easily saves Bruno's penalties.
Seems like a top guy, really hope he makes it here.
he’s certainly got the belief!
I’m not sure I believe the speed test at Sheff United mind!
That confident-to-the-point-of-arrogance vibe is one that was referenced during his time at Sheffield United too. I would also assume it is why Wilder felt comfortable criticising him in public a couple of times and was quick to downplay praise for him on a few others.
It's no bad thing, as long as he backs it up on the pitch. God knows he'll certainly get plenty of criticism from others while he's here.
It's no bad thing, as long as he backs it up on the pitch. God knows he'll certainly get plenty of criticism from others while he's here.
This is the personality you want from a goalkeeper. You sort of need a bit of delusion and that you're always right and the best.
I absolutely love the guy. Oozing in confidence and charisma.
Hopefully he establishes himself as our number 1 in the final part of this season.
Agreed, best keepers are always a bit nuts and a bit out there.
He isn't good enough to be our long term number one. Being confident isn't enough
You really can’t say that with absolute certainty. He has the attributes needed, just depends on how he develops and the opportunities he gets.
His attempts to save Milan's equaliser at Old Trafford and Leicester's third goal in the FA Cup were strange. This were headers that were close range but not hit with sufficient power to give him no chance, in fact he got his hand to both of them but it looked like he could have done better - I hope this isn't the opposite of DDG in that his command of his area is excellent but his shot stopping is questionable.
Looks like he will be starting against Brighton, which likely means De Gea starts the Europa League games. Not sure how to feel about that for Henderson considering that we are in with a good chance of winning the trophy with little to play for in the Premier League sooner rather than later.
Looked at some of the highlights from his caps so far, and it was interesting the amount of shots that came at him. Looked closely, and it seems that it has something to do with his positioning when the ball is at range.
He seems to absolutely commit to the open side, exposing the part of the goal covered by the defenders, and trusting them to put the block on. It means that when the ball goes through the open side which naturally happens more often than not, it comes straight at him. The negative in his positioning going by what I've seen so far, is that when the ball manages to get through the side closed by the defenders, it leaves him with close to no chance of getting to it.
I guess we aren't going to be seeing too many diving saves from him, but he is going to concede quite a few goals that looks soft and sometimes baffling to the eye. Probably evens out over the course of season.
This isn't definitive by any means, but I will take a closer look with more games. Strong rumours that he is now no1 as well.
Looked at some of the highlights from his caps so far, and it was interesting the amount of shots that came at him. Looked closely, and it seems that it has something to do with his positioning when the ball is at range.
He seems to absolutely commit to the open side, exposing the part of the goal covered by the defenders, and trusting them to put the block on. It means that when the ball goes through the open side which naturally happens more often than not, it comes straight at him. The negative in his positioning going by what I've seen so far, is that when the ball manages to get through the side closed by the defenders, it leaves him with close to no chance of getting to it.
I guess we aren't going to be seeing too many diving saves from him, but he is going to concede quite a few goals that looks soft and sometimes baffling to the eye. Probably evens out over the course of season.
This isn't definitive by any means, but I will take a closer look with more games. Strong rumours that he is now no1 as well.
Henderson has better shot-stopping % than De Gea in the last 3 seasons. There is no objective way to claim he is worse in that regard.
- Status