[Red_toad]

We're not going to get Donnarumma, we're not going to get Jan Oblak. We have other positions that need sorting out with our very limited Covid restricted cash.

If Henderson leaves at the end of this season because he wants out, it will be Lee Grant as backup for De Gea next season.

I guess we could also give Joel Pereira a go.

Donnarumma is perfectly obtainable. If he’s willing to go to Manchester. Free transfer and an agent who’d need a big wedge of cash to make it happen.
Dave could very well want to leave now as his child is going to live in Spain. Not sure who your source is but you seem very sure of the information you’ve received!

 

[spiriticon]

Donnarumma is perfectly obtainable. If he’s willing to go to Manchester. Free transfer and an agent who’d need a big wedge of cash to make it happen.
Dave could very well want to leave now as his child is going to live in Spain. Not sure who your source is but you seem very sure of the information you’ve received!

It's never a 'free transfer' with Mino, he'll probably wring us dry on agent's fees and massive wages (probably higher then De Gea's). If we want to spunk high wages on another keeper, we'd have to let De Gea go first and we are terrible at selling players on high wages. It will take us a few summers to sell Dave, unless you have a source that says he wants out now.

Then you have to ask yourself: What has Donnarumma done to actually be worth this praise and money? He's not actually had much success, just a load on Mino-generated hype.

Mino's got you all by the balls.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

Look at how centrally the second goal goes in.

His positioning for it is terrible, with Lindelof covering that half of the goal...but even worse is that weird jump that he does before diving. He was still almost mid-jump when Tielemans shot.

He has such glaring, basic technique issues.

He's like a way, way worse version of Pickford - who himself has some major flaws.

 

[Red_toad]

It's never a 'free transfer' with Mino, he'll probably wring us dry on agent's fees and massive wages (probably higher then De Gea's). If we want to spunk high wages on another keeper, we'd have to let De Gea go first and we are terrible at selling players on high wages. It will take us a few summers to sell Dave, unless you have a source that says he wants out now.

Then you have to ask yourself: What has Donnarumma done to actually be worth this praise and money? He's not actually had much success, just a load on Mino-generated hype.

Mino's got you all by the balls.

In a few summers Dave will be gone on a free transfer.
Do you think it’s not normal for a man to want to live with his new born baby and partner? Or do I need to source some studies on that? His other half doesn’t want to live in Manchester. So it’s all going to be very difficult for him on a personal level!
Donnarumma is a very very good keeper, not sure why you think he isn’t? I’ve no idea what his wage expectations would be, you appear to know more? So care to share?
But obviously he’ll gain more success when he joins a better club and it would also follow he’d expect to earn more.
Mino has my by nothing, he’s a snake. But he does however have a lot of players on his books we could really find a use for...

 

[spiriticon]

In a few summers Dave will be gone on a free transfer.
Do you think it’s not normal for a man to want to live with his new born baby and partner? Or do I need to source some studies on that? His other half doesn’t want to live in Manchester. So it’s all going to be very difficult for him on a personal level!
Donnarumma is a very very good keeper, not sure why you think he isn’t? I’ve no idea what his wage expectations would be, you appear to know more? So care to share?
But obviously he’ll gain more success when he joins a better club and it would also follow he’d expect to earn more.
Mino has my by nothing, he’s a snake. But he does however have a lot of players on his books we could really find a use for...

But Donnarumma's not going to wait a few summers to join us? If his contract is running out this summer, it's got to be done this season. I'm just saying the chances of selling both our keepers this summer is slim, so it's unlikely we're going to get a new one.

Also, it's not that I don't rate Donnarumma. I think he's alright. But I also think Henderson is alright, so what's the difference apart from one has an Italian name and one has an English name? Donnarumma hasn't actually done much in the last 6 years if you look at it objectively. Is he worth a wage to match De Gea's? Not for me. De Gea had to prove himself worthy to get that wage.

But of course everything is relative, if he is willing to come here on a pittance wage I'm absolutely all for it. I don't think Mino will let that happen though.

 

[El Jefe]

He's a really strange goalie. I feel like he does most things very well except for shot stopping. Usually its the other way round where you get GKs that are good shot stoppers but poor at everything else.

Deano is vocal, commands the box pretty well, comes off his line quickly, has a good long throw and plays out from the back quite well. The main issue is he lets in shots that DDG would definitely save.

 

[MadDogg]

He definitely should have done better for the second goal. As others have said his position was too far over and he didn't actually get much distance on his dive. Fix either one of those and he saves that. While De Gea's shot-stopping isn't particularly good anymore I do still think he'd probably save that one. It should be noted that in regards to that bit of a jump that he's doing as Tieleman's hits it, De Gea regularly does that as well.

Not sure about the third. On the one hand it's good that he wants to come out and claim, but you do have to judge it right as to when to do it. He got that one wrong. He wasn't the main one at fault, but if he judged the flight of the ball better he could have been going to cover the back post instead of having to back-peddle.

 

[Red_toad]

He's a really strange goalie. I feel like he does most things very well except for shot stopping. Usually its the other way round where you get GKs that are good shot stoppers but poor at everything else.

Deano is vocal, commands the box pretty well, comes off his line quickly, has a good long throw and plays out from the back quite well. The main issue is he lets in shots that DDG would definitely save.

Bolded part is 100% completely unprovable.
Henderson is doing well in his first season at United. I can recall many people on the Caf thinking Dave was shite and Lindegaard was a far better prospect in his first few seasons. Typical seeking out scapegoats after a defeat and Hendo is one of them for not pulling off a few world class saves, whist not actually making any errors.

 

[Pughnichi]

the shot is saveable and he doesn’t really dive too far from where his feet were planted.

but...If matic didn’t have the turning circle of a P&O ferry and didn’t just jog back, Henderson wouldn’t have even faced the shot. Woeful from Matic.

similarly woeful from McTominay for not recognising threat behind and getting closer to his man.

 

[Pughnichi]

Feels like a critical period for him with Solskjaer likely considering reinstating DDG.

With Pickford out, he might get a chance for England. Let’s hope if he does get the jersey, he’s assured and plays well.Blunder and he’s dropped vs Brighton

 

[Godfather]

Not sure he's good enough as a long term solution

 

[Cassidy]

He should get till season end but from what I have seen he is good but Im not sure good enough. Hopefully he has a few more levels to go up when he settles in.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Bolded part is 100% completely unprovable.
Henderson is doing well in his first season at United. I can recall many people on the Caf thinking Dave was shite and Lindegaard was a far better prospect in his first few seasons. Typical seeking out scapegoats after a defeat and Hendo is one of them for not pulling off a few world class saves, whist not actually making any errors.

Is that Man Utd standard for no1 gk? Man Utd no1 gk (or any no1 gk in big club) must do world class saves. And so far in around 10 games he had one or two max. When oppo has a clear chance, it is a goal. This forum last two seasons is making fun of Pickford. Well here is the truth; Pickford is better gk than Henderson. Pickford will feck up something which Hendo will not do but Pickford can actually pull some world class saves. Henderson can't.

Hendo is another example of our push at all cost academy players. And because fans are desperate to have academy players in team, they overrate players. Hendo is not no1 United material. He is excellent no2 to have but not no1. And he will never be that. Reflexes and shot stopping you have or you don't.

 

[sullydnl]

Statistically speaking, Henderson's shot-stopping performance for Sheffield United last year was the best in the league and on par with all De Gea's best seasons bar one. It was the main selling point of that highly praised season, not his "commanding presence" or whatever else people imagine his strengths to be.

If people are arguing that Henderson isn't all that good a shot-stopper, they probably need some rationale for how he performed so well in that regard last season?

Because if he is ordinary in that regard then we may well have an issue, as his sweeping, distribution and handling of set-pieces have hardly set the world alight either. The assumption was always that (as shown last year) he was an excellent shot-stopper (if not quite at DDG's level) who was also good at claiming crosses.

 

[saivet]

Is that Man Utd standard for no1 gk? Man Utd (or any gk in big club) must do world class saves. And so far in around 10 games he had one or two max. When oppo has a clear chance, it is a goal. This forum last two seasons is making fun of Pickford. Well here is the truth; Pickford is better gk than Henderson. Pickford will feck up something which Hendo will not do but Pickford can actually pull some world class saves. Henderson can't.

Hendo is another example of our push at all cost academy players. And because fans are desperate to have academy players in team, they overrate players. Hendo is not no1 United material. He is excellent no2 to have but not no1. And he will never be that. Reflexes and shot stopping you have or you don't.

I agree. I think that was one of the issues Kepa had early on in his Chelsea career. He wasn't dropping clangers but he was regularly conceding goals where you thought the keeper could do better and neither was he pulling off great saves.

 

[markhughes]

He is a decent goalkeeper though I don’t think he does any one thing particularly well. Hopefully one day we will start seeing 6ft 6in dominant goalkeepers again and move away from this obsession with distribution and sweeper keepers.

 

[Devil81]

Bit harsh to say he should have saved that shot, it was a free shot at goal and he struck it well.

He also should never have faced that shot as Matic or Fred should have closed him down or took him down.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Not yet convinced he is better than the poor form DeGea version we have now and he’s certainly no match for DeGea when he’s in DeGod mode.

Wouldn't mind seeing more of him over the season but right now if DeGea wants to stay I’d still go with DeGea over him.

 

[Oranges038]

Not sure he could have done much for the first or second, positioning and movement for the cross on the third is terrible though.

I still think he's a better option for the team as a whole than De Gea at the minute.

 

[El Jefe]

Bolded part is 100% completely unprovable.
Henderson is doing well in his first season at United. I can recall many people on the Caf thinking Dave was shite and Lindegaard was a far better prospect in his first few seasons. Typical seeking out scapegoats after a defeat and Hendo is one of them for not pulling off a few world class saves, whist not actually making any errors.

Not sure if you read my post at all but I gave him credit for the most part, goodness knows how you think I'm scapegoating him.

He's let some easy shots in this season, no need to be in denial about it. You can say its 100% unprovable, but if DDG let in the second goal yesterday, he would be blamed because we're used to him saving such shots. This is the level of expectation that will be placed on Henderson if he wants to be our No.1.

 

[Red_toad]

Is that Man Utd standard for no1 gk? Man Utd no1 gk (or any no1 gk in big club) must do world class saves. And so far in around 10 games he had one or two max. When oppo has a clear chance, it is a goal. This forum last two seasons is making fun of Pickford. Well here is the truth; Pickford is better gk than Henderson. Pickford will feck up something which Hendo will not do but Pickford can actually pull some world class saves. Henderson can't.

Hendo is another example of our push at all cost academy players. And because fans are desperate to have academy players in team, they overrate players. Hendo is not no1 United material. He is excellent no2 to have but not no1. And he will never be that. Reflexes and shot stopping you have or you don't.

No the standard should be having midfielders who don't start a match laying on assists for the oppositions forwards. It's his first season at United and he's probably performing above expectations. Is he the long term answer, who knows, certainly none of the experts on this thread. Seems the Caf sheep just sits in expectation to moan and bitch about every single issue these days.
If Ole and the transfer squad at United decide there's better options, I'm sure they will act. Hopefully we don't extend players in decline again, but who knows, Hendo is only going to get better as a keeper and is being given a chance for now.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Henderson is not as good of a shot stopper as De Gea. Not many are. But we will concede less goals with Henderson in goal. Do you want a guy who looks good on YouTube or a guy who will concede less goals??

 

[DoomSlayer]

Henderson is not as good of a shot stopper as De Gea. Not many are. But we will concede less goals with Henderson in goal. Do you want a guy who looks good on YouTube or a guy who will concede less goals??

De Gea has been a tragic shot-stopper in the last 3 years. I've seen him concede much much worse goals than what Henderson did yesterday.

 

[Cassidy]

De Gea has been a tragic shot-stopper in the last 3 years. I've seen him concede much much worse goals than what Henderson did yesterday.

Id still back current DDG as the better shot stopper of the 2

 

[DoomSlayer]

Id still back current DDG as the better shot stopper of the 2

You'd back a GK that has statistically been in the bottom 3 of shot-stopping in the league? That must mean Henderson is the worst in the PL, which is obviously not true and just pure agenda.

I get the feeling that just like with some other players, Henderson is getting especially scrutinised, because he is English and from our own youth team.

 

[Cassidy]

You'd back a GK that has statistically been in the bottom 3 of shot-stopping in the league? That must mean Henderson is the worst in the PL, which is obviously not true and just pure agenda.

I get the feeling that just like with some other players, Henderson is getting especially scrutinised, because he is English and from our own youth team.

I like Henderson but from what Ive seen Im more confident in DDGs shot stopping this season (I think DDG actually improved this season). Henderson is better at more or less everything else though

 

[SadlerMUFC]

De Gea has been a tragic shot-stopper in the last 3 years. I've seen him concede much much worse goals than what Henderson did yesterday.

The "big mistakes" don't really bug me as much. they are one offs. De Gea may have been able to save the shot yesterday, but if watching De Gea over the year has taught me one thing, it's the he probably would have been further to his left and not made the save either. It was a good shot inside the post. Had Henderson saved it, it would have been a great save. Either way, he should have been closed down or fouled well before he got the the 18...

 

[DoomSlayer]

I like Henderson but from what Ive seen Im more confident in DDGs shot stopping this season (I think DDG actually improved this season). Henderson is better at more or less everything else though

How can you be so confident though, when the actual evidence we have that I can back up by using determined metrics, shows De Gea has been garbage specifically in that department?

 

[Cassidy]

How can you be so confident though, when the actual evidence we have that I can back up by using determined metrics, shows De Gea has been garbage specifically in that department?

This season? Fair enough

 

[sullydnl]

How can you be so confident though, when the actual evidence we have that I can back up by using determined metrics, shows De Gea has been garbage specifically in that department?

It's quite a broad stat though.

For example, the stats I've seen suggest that while his short-range 1v1 stot stopping has collapsed over the last few years, his long range 1v1 stats remain excellent. And that's comparing two quite similar aspects of his shot stopping game. Which suggests that his decline can't be applied to all areas equally.

In other words its entirely possible for his overall shot stopping stats to have declined but for him to remain comfortably better than Henderson at dealing with, say, long range chance or chances resulting from crosses or whatever. Which are the type of chances people are really referring to when they say he is still a better shot-stopper than Henderson.

 

[DoomSlayer]

It's quite a broad stat though.

For example, the stats I've seen suggest that while his short-range 1v1 stot stopping has collapsed over the last few years, his long range 1v1 stats remain excellent. And that's comparing two quite similar aspects of his shot stopping game. Which suggests that his decline can't be applied to all areas equally.

In other words its entirely possible for his overall shot stopping stats to have declined but for him to remain comfortably better than Henderson at dealing with, say, long range chance or chances resulting from crosses or whatever. Which are the type of chances people are really referring to when they say he is still a better shot-stopper than Henderson.

Of course it's a broad stat, we were never speaking about specifics, only about general shot-stopping ability.

I find it kind of weird though, what constitutes a 1v1 situation and is there a middle ground between 1v1s and long-range shots? I don't believe De Gea has been facing at least one 1v1 every game, so his abilities in that sense being worse don't fully explain why he has been in the bottom 3 for worst shot-stopping %. Was it against Everton where we conceded 3 goals from 3 shots? It's been a repeating theme in the past 3 seasons, with this one being the worst, in my opinion, as De Gea has not only stopped making world class saves on the regular, he makes regular blunders and big errors leading to goals against us, whilst also letting in pretty mediocre goals in, which normally don't count as a mistake.

I don't see how Henderson doesn't deserve at least 6 months to see what he is made of. De Gea didn't' come as the full article and was given a couple of seasons to shape up, whilst still playing as a regular. Deano deserves the same.

 

[sullydnl]

Of course it's a broad stat, we were never speaking about specifics, only about general shot-stopping ability.

I find it kind of weird though, what constitutes a 1v1 situation and is there a middle ground between 1v1s and long-range shots? I don't believe De Gea has been facing at least one 1v1 every game, so his abilities in that sense being worse don't fully explain why he has been in the bottom 3 for worst shot-stopping %. Was it against Everton where we conceded 3 goals from 3 shots? It's been a repeating theme in the past 3 seasons, with this one being the worst, in my opinion, as De Gea has not only stopped making world class saves on the regular, he makes regular blunders and big errors leading to goals against us, whilst also letting in pretty mediocre goals in, which normally don't count as a mistake.

I don't see how Henderson doesn't deserve at least 6 months to see what he is made of. De Gea didn't' come as the full article and was given a couple of seasons to shape up, whilst still playing as a regular. Deano deserves the same.

I think 13.5 yards was the cut off point between the two.

The stats I saw were that his short range 1v1s declined from 61% in 17/18 down to 30% in 19/20, with the average being around 50%. With 1v1s accounting for aporox 35% of goals scored, the collapse in that particular part of his game goes a long way towards explaining his decline in and of itself. And then there were the concentration errors on top of that.

I'd love to see his stats for things like long range chances or chances resulting from corners specifically but I'm not sure where would have them. Because faults in certain areas but not others would go some way towards telling us why his shot stopping declined so rapidly, as would a decline across the board.

Incidentally, I don't particularly have a problem with Henderson's shot stopping yesterday. My criticism would be for the position he found himself in for their third goal.

In terms of him being given a few seasons like De Gea was though, the difference is that it was quickly evident that De Gea was extremely talented, albeit with faults that needed to be ironed out. Whereas Henderson (who is four years older than De Gea has when he arrived) doesn't have that same immediately apparent raw talent. That's inevitably going to impact the way people judge them.

 

[DoomSlayer]

I think 13.5 yards was the cut off point between the two.

The stats I saw were that his short range 1v1s declined from 61% in 17/18 down to 30% in 19/20, with the average being around 50%. With 1v1s accounting for aporox 35% of goals scored, the collapse in that particular part of his game goes a long way towards explaining his decline in and of itself. And then there were the concentration errors on top of that.

I'd love to see his stats for things like long range chances or chances resulting from corners specifically but I'm not sure where would have them. Because faults in certain areas but not others would go some way towards telling us why his shot stopping declined so rapidly, as would a decline across the board.

Incidentally, I don't particularly have a problem with Henderson's shot stopping yesterday. My criticism would be for the position he found himself in for their third goal.

In terms of him being given a few seasons like De Gea was though, the difference is that it was quickly evident that De Gea was extremely talented, albeit with faults that needed to be ironed out. Whereas Henderson (who is four years older than De Gea has when he arrived) doesn't have that same immediately apparent raw talent. That's inevitably going to impact the way people judge them.

Wait, with "1v1 situations", do you mean pretty much all short-range shots on target? Because there is no way 35% of all goals are scored in 1v1s with an attacker and a goalie, at least not against us.

 

[Sylar]

Henderson deserves until end of season unless he drops a clanger or two that allows ddg back in

Ddg shot stopping at his peak was phenomenal but he's not at his peak. He's been bad and it's not a case of him not making those awesome saves, he also makes mistakes that are annoying

Don't think we can go hard on Henderson for yesterday game. His one big mistake was the Milan goal

 

[Alemar]

some really solid statistics here

 

[Sylar]

some really solid statistics here

He's been solid for us and has made two howlers this season, one was trying to play out the back rather than a save attempt

 

[DoomSlayer]

some really solid statistics here

Some of the comments on that tweet just make my head hurt. Imagine having an agenda against our own player, because he is English and is from the youth setup, which automatically means that he is getting a chance only due to those reasons alone.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Some of the comments on that tweet just make my head hurt. Imagine having an agenda against our own player, because he is English and is from the youth setup, which automatically means that he is getting a chance only due to those reasons alone.

There was once a time when we supported players who came from the academy. For years many and even on this forum, many posters were arguing managers started Rashford over Martial because of an academy agenda, never that he was the better player. Now many of the same want Martial gone.

 

[Alemar]

There was once a time when we supported players who came from the academy. For years many and even on this forum, many posters were arguing managers started Rashford over Martial because of an academy agenda, never that he was the better player. Now many of the same want Martial gone.

I don’t think academy factor plays a significant role in Caf assessment of Man Utd GK situation. What we (Caf’ contingent of Man Utd supporters) want is to have a GK that plays well and brings us valuable points.

It doesn’t matter whether Dean is from academy - what matters is that we must play a better performing goalkeeper, because it is better for team’s results

 

[DoomSlayer]

I don’t think academy factor plays a significant role in Caf assessment of Man Utd GK situation. What we (Caf’ contingent of Man Utd supporters) want is to have a GK that plays well and brings us valuable points.

It doesn’t matter whether Dean is from academy - what matters is that we must play a better performing goalkeeper, because it is better for team’s results

And currently we are doing exactly what the "Caf contingent of Man Utd supporters" want by playing the best performing GK we have, so you should be happy.