Oh come the feck on. Schmikes at his prime would not prevent Phil Jones to have his brain farts and stay injury free. The best CB we've had in the years after Fergie was Smalling and he was never good enough to be here long term.
26
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 26
- Clean sheets
- 12
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 3
- Status
Why does it matter, he was the only "constant".
Which makes it even worse. Outfield player (that too midfielder) who can influence in every area of the pitch.
Don't do him like that next timeYeah, applying the same logic consistently is strawman
Don't do him like that next time
Imagine blaming De Gea for our poor defense when he was at his peak, saving this team for years, winning player of the year multiple times, making PFA team of the year multiple times (only ManUtd player who was even considered all those years except Pogba in 1 year).
Now it's different though, he is clearly past his best, makes too many mistakes.
Both top, top keepers and it's a hard one to call. I think Henderson fundamentals are better suited to where we are currently at as a team. Its kind of the same feeling about DDG that I have about Pogs....they are capable of world class moments this season but at the moment we need the fundamentals more. I knew when Henderson came from a cross, taking our Eric too, he's a brave lad and sadly DDG appears to have lost some of that. They say in F1 having a child/family changes your risk taking attributes, maybe that's the same for DDG. I suspect his route back to Spain might be this reason too.....
To be fair it doesn't surprise me one bit. People have short memories
Agree, I hope Henderson turns out to be the answer and we save a ton of money for other positions.
De Gea being the constant in our mediocre defence does not mean he was great or mediocre, and Gerrard being the constant in Liverpool's mediocre teams does not mean he was great or mediocre as well.Yeah, applying the same logic consistently is strawman
I didn't even say what I was trying to get to by mentioning De Gea as the constant all those years. Your first instinct though is to defend De Gea, but you don't even know what to defend him from. Unsuprisingly, you brought in Gerrard, the straw man, to give you something to defend him from. Defending him from what I didn't even say, huh?
Maybe because I know what sort of posts to expect from you you when it comes to De Gea?
Now this is strawman, now are you going to tell us that you didn't mean to criticize De Gea with your "De Gea was constant" post?
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IMO Henderson is the answer. He has done well when given chances even against best teams and he did well in league 1, championship and PL before making Manutd debut. He has good enough experience to take over from ManUtd.
Also DeGea has been very erratic, so Henderson should get chance. If he doesn't cope with being #1 for Manutd then we can go for new GK. It will save us lot of money and we can allocate that to improve other positions.
I didn't mean to say he was shit, for sure. He is probably better these days, but he used to be a goalkeeper who played within himself, and didn't help the defenders an awful lot.
He made good saves, but he has always been part of that mediocre defence every single season.
I've watched Henderson through the ranks and I have always been impressed by the kid. I think he has the potential and the mentality, while already being a very very good GK. DDG should have been demoted to second choice by now, and hopefully this personal thing with David helps the situation.
I just really like this guy, just the way he carries himself, he oozes confidence.
I don't think he'll ever be as good a shot stopper as De Gea, but the rest of his game is by far superior, from his command of his area, communication and distribution.
They showed the replay of that Kompany header from 2012 in the build-up on Sunday, and for years I always just blamed Smalling for not winning that header, but no opposing player should be winning a header 3 yards from goal, De Gea should have claimed it. His incredible shot stopping papered over the cracks in the rest of his game.
Our best defence was with van der Sar in goal, and I think his all round presence was worth more than De Gea's shot stopping ability. For me, that's what Henderson can bring.
I don't think he'll ever be as good a shot stopper as De Gea, but the rest of his game is by far superior, from his command of his area, communication and distribution.
They showed the replay of that Kompany header from 2012 in the build-up on Sunday, and for years I always just blamed Smalling for not winning that header, but no opposing player should be winning a header 3 yards from goal, De Gea should have claimed it. His incredible shot stopping papered over the cracks in the rest of his game.
Our best defence was with van der Sar in goal, and I think his all round presence was worth more than De Gea's shot stopping ability. For me, that's what Henderson can bring.
In the same way I think the comparison with De Gea sees Henderson's sweeping and "commanding presence" get seriously overrated, I also think it sees his shot-stopping ability get seriously underrated.
Going by the PSExG stat, De Gea had just one season in his entire career that was better in terms of shot-stopping than Henderson's last year, which is damn impressive given De Gea was as good a shot stopper as you're going to get.
Obviously it remains to be seen if Henderson can replicate that sort of form across multiple seasons but (based on the limited amount we've seen of him so far) it's easily his big selling point as a goalkeeper.
Yet because we're comparing him to De Gea we get "he isn't a great shot-stopper but he's so much more commanding" type comments, as if he isn't fundamentally a shot-stopping goalkeeper.
Going by the PSExG stat, De Gea had just one season in his entire career that was better in terms of shot-stopping than Henderson's last year, which is damn impressive given De Gea was as good a shot stopper as you're going to get.
Obviously it remains to be seen if Henderson can replicate that sort of form across multiple seasons but (based on the limited amount we've seen of him so far) it's easily his big selling point as a goalkeeper.
Yet because we're comparing him to De Gea we get "he isn't a great shot-stopper but he's so much more commanding" type comments, as if he isn't fundamentally a shot-stopping goalkeeper.
I see your point about the confusing ourselves with comparizons with De Gea, which are mostly only televant to the question of What differences do we get if we go with Henderson over De Gea as first choice?
I haven’t watched Henderson that much at Sheffield Utd, and suscribe to the point that being a keeper for a limelight club is a different kettle of fish. I have no idea wether Henderson taking over at this point will improve us short term.
What I do like about him, and what gives me hope, is his seeming hunger and determination to step forward and improve. He’s made gaffes as a young keeper on loan, as an England youth keeper in a Championship, and against his own former loanee club for United this season - yet he really doesn’t seem to shrink from them - quite the opposite. He seems like he will stick his neck out even further and follow up with working harder to improve himself. It’s a great attitude for surviving at a club like United. If he keeps that up, he will probably improve immensely on his commanding of the area, his sweeping keeping and his influence on the defence, even if he is not topnotch at it as a 23 year old.
His attitude of shameless ambition combined with unflinching hard work seems very different from the personality of David and many English talented keepers of late, and is more reminiscent of some of the great German keepers like Uwe Kahn and Manuel Neuer, and of course our own Schmeichel.
De Gea has never been a great keeper. He is and has been a keeper who makes great saves. There's a difference. And De Gea has made saves that no other keeper in the world would have likely saved. His agility was like no other keeper i have ever seen before. And while he will make breath taking saves from time to time still, as he has aged his other skills haven't improved. The skills needed to be a top keeper. De Gea should be hitting his prime right now. The mere fact that another keeper is even being discussed should tell you what you need to know about De Gea's game. He's just not good enough. He may have the best YouTube highlights of any keeper to ever play the game, but as stated, De Gea is not a great keeper. He is a keeper who makes great saves. Move over Dave. It's Dean's turn...
Yep, that's exactly where the big difference between the two currently lies.
Not defending set pieces specifically (though I accept the stats there are limited), not sweeping (Henderson is average and De Gea has actually improved quite a bit over the last pre-season) and not shot-stopping (where Henderson is very good and De Gea has been mediocre this season). In and of itself though, that disparity in how they deal with crosses is a hell of a big difference.
For De Gea to convince me he might be a better pick again his sweeping would have to keep improving (which is very possible) and his shot stopping would have to drastically revert to near its peak level (which is a lot more difficult to envision). And that's assuming the concentration errors that plagued his game over the last two seasons have gone too, which they may not have. Unless all that happens though, Henderson's obvious superiority in dealing with crosses would seem to comfortably win out.
Assuming that Henderson himself doesn't cave under the pressure, obviously.
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It says a lot about where De Gea is right now that I saw the below tweet and thought "actually, that's better than I expected."
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Wrong thread, but such a bollocks opinion. De Gea at his best was the world’s best keeper. I know it’s funny to dish out sentences like ‘He is a keeper that makes great saves’ as if it was analogous to ‘but a scorer of great goals’, but it really is the most important part of the job of goalkeeping. De Gea didn’t make a few highlight reels moments, he made saves all the time, every game, of every kind, he didn’t let in howlers, and he didn’t let in the kind of very good efforts that most good keepers let in on a weekly basis. For years. For a backline, that is golden security, which Van Gaal and Mourinho, while despairing over the limitations of Uniteds central defenders, was thankful for.
In addition to that, he was not a TV keeper. He had the best movement and positioning I have ever seen in a keeper, maybe barring Buffon. He was good enough in distribution, and ironed out his flaws in dealing with aerial duels to a decent level for many years. No keeper I have watched was perfect, but keeping the ball from going in the net is the bread and butter of the best keepers, and De Gea was head and shoulders above others in that respect.
Now, he is nowhere near that level, and he is still not a bad keeper, just not a particularily good one. But he has declined, no doubt, in all facets of the game. Unlike Schmeichel, whose best years was from 28-35, and Van der Sar 32-39, De Gea’s prime has been from 22-28. If that’s it, it’s a brilliant run. No kind of crazy revisionism and memory loss can change that.
henderson's parries dont really convince me. I think theres a long way to go. People knock De Gea - but they like rewriting history.
Sorry, but I completely disagree. I have never been convinced of De Gea. He has made some amazing saves. Saves I could only dream of making. But his positioning has never been good. In fact, he has never been good at any of the basics of the game. I have explored this in another post. I will try and tag you on it as unlike most who disagree with me, you don't seem like a d*ck
Best shot stopper? Yes
Best GK? No
Take away Dave's shot stopping and what else does he offer besides that? Being a leader and organizing the defense? Long throws? Kicking?(except that 1 season under Hoek) Claiming crosses and corners? Saving penalties at crucial times? Sweeping? Seriously what else does he offer? Both VDS and Schmeichel had most of the above mentioned in their lockers. What does Dave have?
The problem is that most posters think that if he is an insane shot stopper, than that means that he is a good keeper. Not the case.
Let me illustrate the point by another one of our players: Aaron Wan Bissaka. When he joined us he was probably the best tackler at the club. No winger could get past him. So, did that make him the best RB in the league? Nope, simply because everyone was educated enough to understand that playing RB is more than just tackling or blocking the winger. It's about positioning, bombing down the wing, supporting the strikers when necessary, providing width, etc.
The poster you quoted kind of implies that. There is a reason our defense became suspect the moment we replaced VDS with DDG. And while our No.1 became a fantastic shot stopper, all other facets of his game turned to shit. This is why our defense became shaky even with Rio and Vida at the heart of it. Now granted, you can say that they were on their last legs, but even the other defenders turned to shit: Evans and Smalling are great examples, both doing great elsewhere. Also it's no coincidence that every single CB we signed was underwhelming: Bailly, Maguire, Lindelof all come to mind.
For me DDG has been a Shay Given or Brad Friedel with one small difference. Unlike those 2 who reserved their best game of the season against us, he could play like that every other game.
A while back I made a prediction in the Lindelof thread where I said that the moment Dean is going to become our No.1 is the moment our defense is going to improve. So far we are seeing that this is true. Every time he played this season our defense looks more calm, collected and composed. Hell, even Lindelof is looking more aggressive something that he gets criticised here on for the lack of it.
De Gea is a title winning GK for this club, and besides being the best shot stopper for a period of time, he was a very accomplished GK, who was never the sort to come and claim crosses and organize the defense, and that is absolutely fine because not every GK is a VDS. Besides that every other department was pretty good and long before the Edersons and Allisons he was pretty solid with his feet. Just because you need a memory refreshment doesn't change the fact that the guy was Player of the Year for us in a row. DDG was the type of GK we needed back then, and he transformed into the one that saved our asses time and time again. I am pretty sure if we had a stable management and organization through the years bough some competent defenders, he would have developed into a different keeper but also still decline just like everyone else.
Our defense turned shaky because we failed to replace world class defenders, with the same quality. Even Evans was replaced with fecking Rojo, can you see the trend or is it DDG's fault? And no, not Henderson or DDG will make Lindelof to look better than he actually is, you can quote me on that. Writing a post on the back of a clean shit against City, where just as easily we could have conceded because of average CB play, does not play your point.
This repeated nonsense that DDG was just an exceptional shot stopper and an average GK is really taking wind but it does not change the fact that the guy was exceptional at his best. You are the second poster who even tries to pin the shit defenders we had in front of him on DDG himself, which is ridiculous.
One thing De Gea excels at is knocking the ball out wide after a save. It’s a small but important aspect of making the save. But to be fair he started doing that later in life, he didn’t always do that. It came with coaching presumably. Henderson definitely needs to get better at judging where the balls going to go after he saves, but it’s not like it’s something that can’t change.
Agree. When DDG came in remember him parrying shots right onto the path of the opponents. He corrected it and became expert of pusing it away from the opponents. Hopefully Dean can learn this.
Sorry, but I completely disagree. I have never been convinced of De Gea. He has made some amazing saves. Saves I could only dream of making. But his positioning has never been good. In fact, he has never been good at any of the basics of the game. I have explored this in another post. I will try and tag you on it as unlike most who disagree with me, you don't seem like a d*ck
Please do.
Disagree completely. There was a period his shot stopping was that good that he was by far the best keeper in the world. He was phenomenal at his peak.
As I said in the who's going to be our #1 keeper next season thread, those are characteristics for a mid table keeper.
A Heaton or a Fabianski who was able to be at top form 20 league games a season instead 5 games like them. And now he's just like them.
At the time I was hypnotized by his performances too, but it comes a moment when you begin to realize the importance of the position and know that at a club like ours, our keeper should be able to prevent danger and not just reacting to it.
And this sums up EXACTLY why he should be number 1.
Being a slightly better shot stopper is just not worth it when he makes the defence more nervous - most of the time our defenders do a good enough job on the ground, but we struggle aerially from set pieces and corners. Having a keeper who is active in coming and punching/catching before it even reaches the opposition is vital.
You then add in he's more likely to be a sweeper keeper too - it's just much more vital for us at this present moment.
I have never doubted his agility. He has made saves that no other keeper in football could make. But there is a lot more to the position than being agile and as good as he was, he was never brilliant at the basics of the position. To be the best, you need to be able to do it all...
I mean, he was close to unbeatable on his day regardless of his weaknesses. It's like criticising Messi for not winning headers at corners in my opinion.
Only if you expect Messi to be winning headers. I expect De Gea to be brilliant at the basics of his position but he isn't...
Man Utd 1:1 AC Milan
Not the answer.
Got away with one in the first half with the flag going up but beaten at the near post. Awful mistake at the end. Not a good night for him at all.
Should’ve saved that one
He made a mistake tonight, but you would swear that De gea hasn't made even worse feck ups. He needs games, mistakes will happen with young keepers. I still back him and think he should be ahead of De Gea.
He made a mistake, it’s not the end of his career. Lord knows De Gea has dropped enough of those.
It’s not a case that DDG would save that, any keeper would save it. It’s a straight up error.
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