[sullydnl]

I'm not sure how anyone can say "De Gea would have saved that" so definitively when he's let in plenty of goals like that in his time. He probably would have had a better chance of saving it as he's always been the more talented shot stopper but that has never meant all theoretically saveable shots were saved.

We've reached a point where we're now over-critical of both our goalkeepers when they let in goals I think.

 

[Superunknown]

I find it really hard to judge goalkeepers because it's such an over-analysed position and it's also the most high risk, imo. The other thing to throw into that equation is that there are so many variables to include, like having a big run of games to develop your confidence, or having a solid defence in front of you. Judging a keeper on the occasional cup game is not an easy thing to do. I've not made my mind up either way with regards to Henderson.

 

[Still ill]

Yeah, really not feeling it with him at all at the moment. I'm nervous all the time with him. But he's young and he'll get better.

 

[Alemar]

He looks small in goal. And this match was not a good one for him by any means.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I find it a bit odd that Henderson is getting criticised tbh. Thought he had a good game. Some people have extremely high expectations of him already.

Because our own fans hyped him to skies. Some of the fanboys did not want the dirty face of De Gea to be seen anywhere near because now we had Hendo who would walk in as a no 1 choice in any team in PL.

In general, it is ok, he is not ready yet. He has time and hopefully improve and earn the regular keeper spot.

 

[Mcking]

He looks small in goal. And this match was not a good one for him by any means.

That's my biggest worry with him. Someone is probably going to scream lie, but the big keepers are usually the best ones. He is tiny.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Poor positioning for the 2nd goal which impacts his ability to spring into a save and he probably has limited vision. To be fair to him the terrible headed clearance from Wan Bissaka should never happen.

In the Maguire thread I'm being told the 1st goal isn't on him as other players should've done their job first, so let's be consistent right?

 

[RuudTom83]

Being a second choice keeper is hard...he looked a bit nervous tonight, but I don't think he is a huge problem tbh.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Looks jittery like Pickford.

 

[shamans]

I thought he had a good game. Came in here expecting you all to exaggerate how good he was (as is often the case with our academy products) but criticism?? I must have seen something else. Was commanding and solid.

 

[Red00012]

Seems nervous or not commanding I’m not sure which.
Can be worked on of course.

 

[Lay]

He looks small in goal. And this match was not a good one for him by any means.

I thought this too. I’m not sure how tall he is or if it’s because he looks nervous but he doesn’t fill the goal as some other goalkeepers.

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

The two players we made big mistakes on are both English - Maguire and Henderson. These guys would not get a second look at Bayern, Madrid and Barca. Yet here, we bend over backwards for them.

EDIT: Just see that he's 23 years old! Why is he not out on loan again?!

 

[The United]

Should have stayed at SU for more regular game time.

Romero suits the role better and frankly played better too.

 

[ti vu]

The two players we made big mistakes on are both English - Maguire and Henderson. These guys would not get a second look at Bayern, Madrid and Barca. Yet here, we bend over backwards for them.

EDIT: Just see that he's 23 years old! Why is he not out on loan again?!

High wage. No smaller clubs can afford that wage. Big clubs which can afford the wage, doesn't want to develop a rival's future GK.

 

[LUC1f3R]

I like Dean more because he is vocal towards the defenders. Many a times we find that our defensive line disorganized and we need a more vocal presence at the back. Maguire is getting better but he is not vocal/ organizing in the back for a captain.

 

[MadDogg]

High wage. No smaller clubs can afford that wage. Big clubs which can afford the wage, doesn't want to develop a rival's future GK.

Nothing to do with his wage, which is something that we would just pay part of if that's what we wanted to do.

It's obviously because De Gea has been poor the last two seasons and Ole wanted to have the option of bringing in Henderson if that continued. De Gea has improved this season, still nowhere near his best but enough that Henderson has had to settle for mostly being used in the cups.

Henderson hasn't been great in the matches that he has had (not poor either, just 'average' doing what you expect a keeper to do), but I wonder if that's his level or whether it's the fact that he's not playing regularly that is stopping him showing more?

 

[ROFLUTION]

No, he wouldn't have done better if the scenarios played exactly the same.

Never mind seeing the situations again, how about seeing a specialist for glasses.

De Gea and Romero clearly would have been more proactive in the situations. Henderson makes tv-saves, and only keepers who have a need to look good do that.

De Gea on his hayday (which is the level we need) had possibly also held on to one of the saves he made a tv-save out of (every keeper being United material should save that one)

90% in this thread talks about him not being good enough yesterday, so maybe take that in?

 

[arthurka]

Here is the thing. That should not be standard for United keeper, isn't it? I would always rather have a gk who will then and there make a mess but in most of games save certain goals than keeper who saves what he must and that is it. Second goal wasn't mistake by all means but it can be saved.
Look at that shot from Villa player in 90th minute last week. Ddg saved it. He also could have just stand on the goal line and say "i didn't see the ball".

No no I agree with that but to blame him for the goal is a bit much I think.
The kid is nervous it´s for all to see he was a clear number one last season and looked the part.
Klopp tried to have two keepers competing it never works out, I said it before if he wasn´t going into this season as a clear number one he should have been loaned out.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Aye, if he could get down like the amazing Sergio Romero he could have made a save like Romero’s against Norwich.



Oh wait.

So you found 1 example out of a 100 great Romero saves

Now please go the opposite way and find a 100 great Henderson saves for me at Romero level then if they're equal.

Cantwells shot even has more power and less visibility. At least he jumped for it unlike Henderson, even though Romero is not looking good in the situation, ill give you that.

I think you're missing the overall point though - that Henderson already has had about as many bad situations as Romero in just half a year in way less games.

Nobody at the required level for a team like us can have a backup keeper that needs consistent gametime to be able to perform.

 

[ti vu]

Nothing to do with his wage, which is something that we would just pay part of if that's what we wanted to do.

It's obviously because De Gea has been poor the last two seasons and Ole wanted to have the option of bringing in Henderson if that continued. De Gea has improved this season, still nowhere near his best but enough that Henderson has had to settle for mostly being used in the cups.

Henderson hasn't been great in the matches that he has had (not poor either, just 'average' doing what you expect a keeper to do), but I wonder if that's his level or whether it's the fact that he's not playing regularly that is stopping him showing more?

If it were only simple just about option then Romero had been doing the back up role just fine since LVG time. Now he's left out for good since he was not registered.

If we're happy to share the wage bill, then Romero wouldn't be left out. Surely there are clubs who can use a reasonable wage GK, no? Romero is not the only one. Rojo is on the same boat.e

Some GKs are better at back up role, despite lacking game time. Many others need game time to stay on top of their game, or risking losing touch. If there is no plan for Henderson to become our no 1 in immediate future, having him on the bench is counter productive.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Some excellent saves. And he looked settled and much less nervous. If he wore DDG mask, I wouldn't know that's Henderson.

And that 2nd goal was impossible to save.

Please let us know which saves were "excellent"? The high shot between middle and post? any United keeper should take that, that's not "excellent". To me he makes it an unnecessary tv-save

 

[Sylar]

Need to see a video of the second goal, but I dont think hes at fault for it. I mean hes not getting it from the initial look
This thread has been weird since post game

 

[Isotope]

Please let us know which saves were "excellent"? The high shot between middle and post? any United keeper should take that, that's not "excellent". To me he makes it an unnecessary tv-save

For me, these are good to great saves.
minute: 56:38. Sterling header
59:20 stealing from Sterling foot
61:10 Mahrez shot.

@ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg

 

[arnie_ni]

Could he have came for the cross for the 1st goal? I haven't seen it back, but by the times stones touched it he was very close to the goal.

Probably couldn't until it passed maguire though

 

[MadDogg]

Could he have came for the cross for the 1st goal? I haven't seen it back, but by the times stones touched it he was very close to the goal.

Probably couldn't until it passed maguire though

Pretty much. If he's come out to be in position to get the ball where it eventually ended up, he would have been completely out of play if any of the earlier players had got a touch. I do think he should have made himself bigger when the eventual touch from Stones did come in though. Obviously there wasn't much time to react but I felt he could have given himself a better chance of blocking anything.

 

[arnie_ni]

Pretty much. If he's come out to be in position to get the ball where it eventually ended up, he would have been completely out of play if any of the earlier players had got a touch. I do think he should have made himself bigger when the eventual touch from Stones did come in though. Obviously there wasn't much time to react but I felt he could have given himself a better chance of blocking anything.

Yea without looking back at it I think it would be harsh to criticise him for not coming based purely on where it ended up

 

[Sylar]

Seeing the video above, I can see why he didn't dive and it's because a split second before he moves the other way. It basically leaves him wrong footed. You see that happen to a lot of goalkeepers where you're stuck and just hoping it doesn't go in

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Thought his passing was awful yesterday. Think he played 3 consecutive crosses to Shaw/Pogba which were either dispossessed or went out of play.

I like him though.

 

[ROFLUTION]

For me, these are good to great saves.
minute: 56:38. Sterling header
59:20 stealing from Sterling foot
61:10 Mahrez shot.

@ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg

Cheers for taking your time.

This is how I see these situations:
1. The Sterling header: When watching it in replay, the Sterling header possibly would have gone out, so not great decisionmaking to take it.
2. Does well to close him down. Nothing spectacular I think though
3 It's a save you have to make if you're a United goalie. I think he makes it into an unnecessary TV-save with his jump, but I don't expect you to agree with me.

 

[DanNistelrooy]

Looks a bit nervous with the ball at his feet but I guess that's understandable given what happened away at Sheffield United last month.

Other than that I thought he was solid enough

 

[ROFLUTION]

@2.41 When Foden's through he runs back into the goal.

Why any keeper would do that, giving the attacker more space to finish (making it an unbelieavably easy finish), is beyond me.

 

[Mcking]

Thought his passing was awful yesterday. Think he played 3 consecutive crosses to Shaw/Pogba which were either dispossessed or went out of play.

I like him though.

Thought his passing was very good considering the fact he went long more often than not. Picked out Rashford and Pogba almost everytime.

 

[Mcking]

Seeing the video above, I can see why he didn't dive and it's because a split second before he moves the other way. It basically leaves him wrong footed. You see that happen to a lot of goalkeepers where you're stuck and just hoping it doesn't go in

Spot on. I have always said that it was his body movement before the ball was struck. There's no way he'd have been able to get enough momentum behind a dive that would get him anywhere near the ball.

As a goalkeeper, you just hope the ball comes back off the post. If he attempted a dive anyway, it'd just be a slight roll across at most, or a full dive with the ball long gone, and leaving him prone to a potential rebound.

 

[Hoboman]

Was decent yesterday, not much he could do with both goals, but I still prefer to keeper have calming precence instead of him being all shouty and cocky.

Also hoped to have all-rounder as second choise keeper, to give our defence much needed boost and new dimension, than basically DDG's copy with the same small frame, weak kicking and commanding of the area.

He is young though and hopefully will improve those weak points in his game. Still remember how David had improved in dealing with high balls under Hoek's guidance.

 

[DannyCAFC]

Really good shot-stopper but that's all he has in his locker; fine for most PL teams but not for a top club these days.

DDG has the same flaws largely, but he was making so many worldie saves at one point that it was a worthwhile trade-off, plus United were on the backfoot more in those days and these problems didn't really come to light as much.

I know he's still young and I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong if he does end up being United's long term #1 but I just don't see it. Still think it's a position they need to look at addressing in the future.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

More importantly than dissecting last night's game - what do people actually think he's good at? Why do you rate him as a future United keeper?

On just about every metric of modern goalkeeping, I see nothing that makes me think he's an outstanding number 2, never mind a future number 1.

Height? He's one of the shortest keepers in the league. Plenty of pictures show he's a similar height to Pickford, who's routinely criticised for his lack of size and presence.

Proactive sweeper keeper? Nope. Goalline keeper. Ranked 16th of 20 starting goalkeepers last season for Defensive Actions outside the penalty area. 22nd of 24 the year before in the Championship.

Distribution? Looks actively terrified of the ball. Obviously had the lowest completion % of any goalkeeper in the league last season - although arguably much of that was down to Sheffield United's tactics. He had a comically low number of actual passes last season.

Are his long kicks actually good? No, is the quick answer. A 'Launch' is defined as a goalkeeper pass attempt longer than 40 yards. Henderson's Launch completion rate was just 29% - ranking him 20th of 20 starting keepers. For reference Alisson was 1st with 54%. De Gea was right in the middle, 10th at 39%.

1v1? Given his lack of size, this probably isn't surprising, but he ranked 18th of 20 starting keepers in 1v1 Save Percentage last season. Pope was Number 1 by quite a margin, followed by Alisson and then Ederson. De Gea was 6th.

Shot stopping? Excepted Goals/Goals Conceded seems to be the most used metric here. With it, Henderson ranked 6th of the 20 starting keepers last season - behind Lloris, Dubravka, Guaita, McCarthy and Leno. De Gea was 10th - surprisingly ahead of Alisson in 12th. Pickford and Kepa were 19th and 20th.

 

[parkthebuslads]

It's early days but I'm struggling to see why he was so highly regarded.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

I'll lay the judgement right away, and I'm usually pretty opened minded / patient with players

Dean Henderson is a shit overrated goalkeeper.
- Terrible at keeping focus / non-chalant
- Way too big a mouth compared to his actual skills. We saw this last summer where he "was better than De Gea" and dropped in the next game for England U21s.
- Crap in 1 on 1s where he always hesitates to come out and fails to close the space the attacker is allowed to shoot in (saw it today too)

The most annoying part about him is that he's on such a big contract and seemingly has gotten this contract due to his big-ego and being shielded by a low Sheffield United defence, which is nowhere near how United play. Contract-robbery of the decade, thanks again Ed. 100k a week for 5 years. That's 26m in total just in contract for an amateur back-up goalkeeper.

I'll correct myself, the most annoying thing about him is his open mouth and his ego. There's really something arrogant about him I can't stand. Maybe it's because he doesn't have the skills to back the arrogance and his statements about how good he is up.

What are you on about?

Did I miss something yesterday, he did well against that long range effort except that pretty tidy game with fairly quick distribution. Can you calm down?:-)

Yes he's son a big contract, yyes if he plays 1 game in 6 he won't perform to the top level except to when he's trusted and given proper run of games. I am notsaying he should displace DDG but just putting pressure on him is only good for us. I think he's got a very good potential and that he's better than Pickford but what's your point hating on a player who did nothing to you or showed no sign of what you claim he's a big mouth. It's good to see a confident player for a change. I think he works hard and tries to impress in a limited time he's got. Maybe you have a problem with him eh?

DDG is on a decent run but he was a walking disaster at few points of last season and the season before, singlehandedly cost us the champions league two years ago, remarkably saved it against leicester last minute last year after his mistakes. It was him who also struggled when he first got a chance, let's not forget that. If he wasn't such a safety first keeper,he could have prevented a goal against PSG and we could have been through, or was it Leipzig, but anyway..

Hard to argue with people with agenda /on a wum...

 

[BenitoSTARR]

His passing was woeful, he doesn’t come out and sweep, I’ve not seen him claim any cross that De Gea wouldn’t and not seen him do anything in a United shirt that De Gea couldn’t do far better.

He’s got a long way to go in my mind.