Looking forward to what the anti-DDG support group say when he signs a new deal and we bring in a young no2 as understudy.
He would make a cracking mentor imo. Bring it on!
De Gea Replacement - Do not use for player performance chat
- Thread starter bosnian_red
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He would make a cracking mentor imo. Bring it on!
It probably was at the time the thread was created. He isn't actively costing us games in the same way he was at the start of the season but in some games his flaws get badly exposed. The Arsenal game was a particularly bad one and that's why replacing him should still remain a priority, even if not the top one.
It'd probably be less of a talking point if he wasn't the best paid goalkeeper in the world, but it's a valid discussion when renewing him involves paying him a large salary and possibly obstructs us replacing him for the duration of that contract.
agreed. If we were to bring in 5 players in the summer, a GK wouldn’t be on the list. He’ll be our no 1 next season imo.
De Gea is a goalkeeper playing under a coach who wants to implement vertical positional play. And a keepers job in such a school of thought is to keep the ball out of the back of the next in the defensive phase but he also has to be a net positive in the offensive phase or the coach has to adapt to the weaknesses of the goalkeeper in the first phase of the build up. Erik ten Hag wants to play the game in the opponent's half (his own words) but to effectively play the game in the opponent's half, the team must effectively build the play through the thirds and circumnavigate the opponent's methodical off the ball pressing structure. And that's one of the reasons why another proponent of vertical positional play, Luis Enrique ousted De Gea from the Spain squad.
If you put Allison in our team, we would improve both offensively and defensively because not only does he make saves, but he also aids the build up play in possession and he is a very capable sweeper keeper, aswell as being good at commanding his area against high balls. He's a better fit for any coach in comparison, due to his allround skillset, but he's particularly better for those coaches who want to exert zonal and positional control over the opposition.
I'd be surprised if ten Hag doesn't bring in a new keeper who suits his ideology. And for a coach with his ideology it's important that the build up play is elite and all 11 players provide the technical security on the ball as well as the progression through the thirds whilst maintaining the intensity. Just making saves isn't enough and I have no doubt that if Guardiola had replaced Fergie in 2013, De Gea would've left us long ago.
It's all about improving the collective and not focusing on individuality. And with De Gea it's going to be the same story as long as he's with us, where he'll make a few good saves and he'll be proclaimed as the best in the world before he reminds us all that his inability to command his area and hinder the build up play is a detriment to the way ten Hag wants his team to play.
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Surely you are aware that De Gea is the highest paid goalkeeper in the world?
At the moment yes but if he stays he won't be
Yes this is the crux of the debate really when it comes to De Gea. However, one option that may happen is that he agrees to substantial wage reduction AND we buy a 'low' cost but potential upgrade e.g Raya, whose contract ends next year. That may be financially doable even as a 3rd choice priority (behind CF and CM). With the players we have leaving in the summer (Bailly, Tuanzebe and Jones) and possible sales (Maguire, Henderson, Elanga, Lindelof and Williams), it might be the best of both worlds. You keep a fairly high level keeper with tons of experience along with an intriguing option, who will be battling for the top spot.
Remember ETH likes his players to fight for positions and always talks about squad depth, so I think he will definitely try to bring in a strong 2nd keeper option (or depending on the talks and budget, a direct replacement).
In your opinion, which goalkeepers in the P.L are elite goalkeepers, if DDG isn't ? Personally, there is only one goalkeeper I maybe would rate higher than DDG, and that is Allison. So I am not saying we should stick with DDG forever - but we should stick with him until there is someone out there who is a lot better and available. And right now, that is not a priority.
I don't feel competent enough to tell. I only watch United, and sometimes highlights. I do see goalkeepers making good saves there, I certainly don't think that is something that is done only by De Gea. In my opinion Dave makes some saves look flashy, while other GKs make it look simpler. Also, David has some clear deficiencies that are also reflected in his stats-based profile. I rate him as a good keeper, but I don't think this will be that difficult to replace him.
But I agree in the end we will stick with De Gea until someone better is available, that is also not a priority but I hope we address this as soon as possible (that doesn't mean at all cost).
Quick look at the stats and David Raya seems to be having a decent season, he's a decent shot stopper but more importantly all-round good GK by the looks of it (intercepting crosses, passing, throws, sweeper actions). Bernd Leno and Neto also look decent. I don't think we should be focusing too much on how good a shot stopper any GK is, it will fluctuate quite a bit. One bad game (see City/ Brentford for De Gea) and this parameter goes down.
Are you serious? You brought up the difference in seasons us and Liverpool are having in a way that made it seem like the keepers are the main reasons behind them. Besides, if anything Liverpool would be worse off without Allison as he’s saved them constantly this season so im not sure that even supports your own argument.
My issue with De Gea is that he has flaws that are too easily exposed and there’s been little to no improvement on them. He makes worldie saves I agree and I would actualll love for him to win something big for us as a sort of thank you for basically screwing him out of like 4 CL medals. However he isnt a modern keeper and honestly what he brings to the team can definetly be found in another keeper who also has the modern skillset. Statistically De Gea hasn’t even been anywhere near the best shot stopper in Europe this season anyway and thats meant to be his main asset.
In terms of the title, its definetly not our biggest priority but I think it’s definetly something that should be done soon
More than half of the shit some people pin on De Gea when it comes to playing from the back is actually a combination of Ole's failure to set up a proper system, lack of reliable options for him to pass to.
Have Alisson try to build up from the back with Maguire, McT, Fred and Bissaka and you'll have the exact same complaints from him.
Have Alisson try to build up from the back with Maguire, McT, Fred and Bissaka and you'll have the exact same complaints from him.
I think this is still a priority, in the sense of we need to plan life without him. i.e. a keeper that could take over 2-3 years from now, but overall I am very happy with his renaissance.
Alisson is obviously the stand out goalkeeper in the league and I can understand the POV than none of the others are on his level.
But accepting that, it raises the question of why a goalkeeper like Ederson has four PL titles, or Ramsdale is currently on his way towards Arsenal's first title in 20 years. And the obvious answer if they're not super-outstanding individually is that they fit their team and the type of football their managers want the team to play. Whereas there's no dressing up the fact that De Gea is actively at odds with the profile of goalkeeper ETH and managers who play a similar brand of football prefer. As long as he's in goal, ETH is compromising.
In other words instead of asking which goalkeepers are individually better than De Gea, a more insightful approach would be to ask which goalkeepers would be better than De Gea in an ETH team specifically, because the latter is what we're actually looking for and it's likely a much bigger group of options.
If Erik feels that big Dave is hindering the progress of his team I am sure that will be shown in the contract negotiations as Dave is not going to sign if he is not going to be No.1 for at least the next 2-3yrs.
It seems very likely that a De Gea will stay at this point given the reports that contract talks are advancing.
But that still leaves us needing to sign another goalkeeper given Butland is on loan and Henderson wants to leave. So the question really is if we sign another Butland-esque goalkeeper who will guarantee De Gea is #1 or bring in a goalkeeper who can actually rival him for the spot.
But that still leaves us needing to sign another goalkeeper given Butland is on loan and Henderson wants to leave. So the question really is if we sign another Butland-esque goalkeeper who will guarantee De Gea is #1 or bring in a goalkeeper who can actually rival him for the spot.
We'll bring in another cheap back up, or potentially sign Butland if he's impressing Ten Hag in training.
I think Heatons contract is up in the summer too.
He's objectively not though. There's data to measure this stuff and De Gea is currently 18th of the 30 gks that have played in the league this year in terms of goals conceded - goals expected to have been conceded. He's on a negative figure for this so he's conceding more than he should be. It's not a perfect measurement but all gks are being measured on the same scale.
As I said, he's capable of the spectacular and people commenting here every time he makes an amazing save to counter the arguments that he is bad at other things is silly. He's also capable of massive brain farts and this on top of being worst in class at so many other facets of the game (claiming high crosses, sweeping, playing from the back) means we can do with a big upgrade.
The decision to try a short gk there was mad. We are on the ropes 1 min from HT. Just pump it and get into the half.
Out ability on the ball is a problem. Bruno and Casemiro is a high risk high reward kind of passers. Fred is Fred and Sancho is way out of form. AEB and DDG us having a mare
Should have started Sabitzer and Dalot.
Should have started Sabitzer and Dalot.
It's these big games where his limitations are so visible
It was a poor pen from Lewandowski. Lucky to get away with that. I think De Gea slipped.
He gave me a heart attack when he plays from the back.
Third time posting this, but was it a legal run up? I thought did a bit more of a dummy than I think is allowed. He stopped, then done the jump.
Yeah really poor run up. Not sure about the specifics to be honest.
Definitely not legal but i'm not surprised. Only group of refs worse than PL refs are CL/UEL refs.
It just didn't look as smooth a Ronaldo Bruno or Jorginho do it. It looked off. I wouldn't be shocked if someone finds the rules and we find out it's illegal
When will people realize that DDG is exclusively a shot stopper, and nothing else.
It’s not happening for us tonight, Barcelona have done their homework and have foiled every move we’ve made. We’ve hardly had a touch of the ball and when we have we’ve invariably given it away within seconds. Balde, Kessie ,de Jong and Busquets are having the game of their lives and the ref has been appalling.
Class save
That's a Dave save. Pure class when needed.
But making saves isn't important for a keeper. His ability to contribute to outfield play is far more important.
But making saves isn't important for a keeper. His ability to contribute to outfield play is far more important.
Besides, his xπ(Gs) shows that his only 38th goalkeeper named Dave out 149 when it comes to saves.
But making saves isn't important for a keeper. His ability to contribute to outfield play is far more important.
Blah, but yeah, I mean what the f**k do people want?
Good time to bump this thread. After a striker, I think the next most important signing is a replacement goalkeeper. A top all round goalkeeper, comfortable on the ball, has command of area and good shot-stopping. There must be some out there.
i don't think a keeper is high on the priority list at all. at least one new striker, one more centre half and two midfielders for sure. we can start looking for a new keeper next season.
CF, CM, GK and RB are certainly by far the obvious areas for improvement in our starting eleven.
The question is whether squad composition issues force other signings on us beyond what we'd like to do with the first eleven. For example if ETH feels that selling Maguire require a replacement CB to be signed or if players in other positions wish to leave and ETH feels they need to be replaced. At which point managing to target all four of those first team positions in the summer could be a problem.
But the key thing with this position is that even if De Gea signs a new contract, we would still need to bring in a goalkeeper of some description due to the status of our current second/third choice goalkeepers. So how much of a push would it be to make sure that inevitable goalkeeper signing is at least able to challenge De Gea?
The question is whether squad composition issues force other signings on us beyond what we'd like to do with the first eleven. For example if ETH feels that selling Maguire require a replacement CB to be signed or if players in other positions wish to leave and ETH feels they need to be replaced. At which point managing to target all four of those first team positions in the summer could be a problem.
But the key thing with this position is that even if De Gea signs a new contract, we would still need to bring in a goalkeeper of some description due to the status of our current second/third choice goalkeepers. So how much of a push would it be to make sure that inevitable goalkeeper signing is at least able to challenge De Gea?
When the keeper is unable to consistently find the fullbacks in the present day where opponents defend high up the pitch, then the build up phase will be compromised. And for a coach like ten Hag who adheres to the positional play principles, that's a big problem.
I think with new owners, we will sign a GK, RB, CM and Striker.
When DeGea’s form hits rock bottom it generally has a huge impact on the squad. This has consistently been a problem for us for well over a decade.
It’s now reached the point where’s it’s no longer a luxury but a necessity to sign a decent keeper and one who commands his area and is capable of organising and communicating with defenders.
It’s now reached the point where’s it’s no longer a luxury but a necessity to sign a decent keeper and one who commands his area and is capable of organising and communicating with defenders.
Absolutely, I agree.
I don't get to watch much football apart from Utd these days. Occasionally when I do though and see most random keepers these days e.g.the GK for Dortmund yesterday who I've never heard, look so comfortable playing passes into midfield and to full backs, whilst oozing confidence on the ball, I'm wondering what sorcery is this.
From your earlier post I understand the guy is not even their first choice and the first choice has been very good.
I think we've made great improvements under Erik in terms of ball retention and controlling games that adding a better all round, sweeper keeper would take our play up so many levels.
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