De Gea Replacement - Do not use for player performance chat

pratyush_utd said:
Think its bit harsh considering he did play some good passes from the back. First half Garnacho was not tracking his runner and they were getting a lot of space on the left side. Dont think any keeper would have helped in that position.

Can we replace De Gea and get better ball playing GK? Yes absolutely. But with so many other areas to focus, i think he is our least priority at the moment
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It's not only about this game mate, it's about De Gea being unsuited to the positional play principles of Erik ten Hag. And I'm supporting his ( ten Hag) idea to come to fruition. And ten Hag has adapted to De Gea's weaknesses where players like Martinez are positioned next to him when the opponent is positioned in their defensive shape in a midblock.

I've said for years that De Gea isn't saving us, but is rather contributing to the chaos that is ensuing, especially in the defensive third. I'm still waiting for us to replace Van der Sar.
 
The Irish Connection said:
Ok, I respect your opinion but I disagree. De Gea is decent on the ball. Better than someone like Courtois, and they won the champions league with him.
He has his weakness definitely but if he keeps up this season’s form he’s far from an issue in my eyes.
Not really too bothered about Spain, this is Man united and I think we’re supposed to support our players too, despite some weaknesses.
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That's fair and believe it or not I'm in a good mood after the win against Leicester.

Courtois is also not of the requisite standard on the ball but he is dominant when it comes to commanding his area.

I do support all our players and I support De Gea, too. But my opinions are never going to change when it comes to De Gea because I've never rated him highly. For me if your keeper isn't dominant at commanding his area and also not being good with the ball in the current EPL, then he's not good enough, especially when the coach is a proponent of vertical positional play.

I apologise to anyone who is pissed off with my thoughts on De Gea.
 
He obviously has his faults but I’m certain that we can win the league with him as first choice and right now that’s enough for me. If over the next few years an obvious replacement becomes available we should move for him but I’m happy with his form and that he seems willing to take a pay cut on that fecking ridiculous contract of his.
 
Adnan said:
That's fair and believe it or not I'm in a good mood after the win against Leicester.

Courtois is also not of the requisite standard on the ball but he is dominant when it comes to commanding his area.

I do support all our players and I support De Gea, too. But my opinions are never going to change when it comes to De Gea because I've never rated him highly. For me if your keeper isn't dominant at commanding his area and also not being good with the ball in the current EPL, then he's not good enough, especially when the coach is a proponent of vertical positional play.

I apologise to anyone who is pissed off with my thoughts on De Gea.
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Just equalled Schmeichel's clean sheet record. Yeah, he's pretty shit.
 
Kag said:
That’s quite literally how football works.

Replace Casemiro with Scott McTominay and you aren’t up to much, are you?
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Don't mean to go on about this but are you equating McT to De Gea and Cas to Allison?
I think that's a bit of an unfair comparison is all.
 
Adnan said:
It's not only about this game mate, it's about De Gea being unsuited to the positional play principles of Erik ten Hag. And I'm supporting his ( ten Hag) idea to come to fruition. And ten Hag has adapted to De Gea's weaknesses where players like Martinez are positioned next to him when the opponent is positioned in their defensive shape in a midblock.

I've said for years that De Gea isn't saving us, but is rather contributing to the chaos that is ensuing, especially in the defensive third. I'm still waiting for us to replace Van der Sar.
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Yes i agree our performance will get better (and your analysis is usually better) but we need reinforcements in other places as well. Think we can get understudy to him for cheap. But i dont consider replacing him a priority.
 
Gazautd18 said:
Don't mean to go on about this but are you equating McT to De Gea and Cas to Allison?
I think that's a bit of an unfair comparison is all.
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No. My point is that replacing poorer players with better ones tends to make a football team better.
 
Kag said:
No. My point is that replacing poorer players with better ones tends to make a football team better.
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But you're not necessarily replacing de gea with a better goalkeeper, but a better footballer. That won't necessarily improve OUR team
 
Kag said:
Well, this is the point. We need to and I believe that we can.
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Well for example your man at Leeds might be a better footballer, but there's no chance he's a better keeper than de gea. (Linked in the sun)

If that's the idea of who we should be replacing him with we need to look harder.
 
arnie_ni said:
Well for example your man at Leeds might be a better footballer, but there's no chance he's a better keeper than de gea. (Linked in the sun)

If that's the idea of who we should be replacing him with we need to look harder.
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Like De Gea, Meslier is a fanny. We shouldn’t go anywhere near him.

We need a goalkeeper who is a bigger presence in the box and who can initiate attacks the way in which Ten Hag clearly wants.
 
Adnan said:
That's fair and believe it or not I'm in a good mood after the win against Leicester.

Courtois is also not of the requisite standard on the ball but he is dominant when it comes to commanding his area.

I do support all our players and I support De Gea, too. But my opinions are never going to change when it comes to De Gea because I've never rated him highly. For me if your keeper isn't dominant at commanding his area and also not being good with the ball in the current EPL, then he's not good enough, especially when the coach is a proponent of vertical positional play.

I apologise to anyone who is pissed off with my thoughts on De Gea.
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Fair enough. No worries!
 
pratyush_utd said:
Yes i agree our performance will get better (and your analysis is usually better) but we need reinforcements in other places as well. Think we can get understudy to him for cheap. But i dont consider replacing him a priority.
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For me it's a priority to replace him and we should comfortably be able to that and sign a top class creative midfielder and a striker under new owners. Improve the build up with a new keeper and midfielder which then creates the foundation for the collective to thrive and the prospective new striker to flourish.

The problem is staring us in the face and it does look like ten Hag has realised that hence Martinez dropping further back against opponents who press in a mid-block to initiate play.

All keepers are good at shot stopping with some being better than others. But in a setup where the manager wants to play 'pressing football' where the aim is for every player to push forward at at every possible opportunity (with or without the ball) the keeper has to be proactive in all phases of play.

I haven't watched a lot of European football football this season but the keeper at Dortmund, Gregor Kobel did catch my eye in the few times I did watch Dortmund. Not saying he is the answer, but he looked very good the few times I watched him and he has a real presence about him.
 
People are far too obsessed with the trendy idea of keepers as outfield players. Ultimately the first and biggest part of the job is keeping the ball out of the net and DDG excels at that.

Some of the posts in here about how any old keeper can make saves are just plain stupid. I’m sorry, but they are.

99% of keepers between the sticks today and were 0-2 down. You can bang on about creativity all you like but he kept us in it today, and that’s not an anomaly.
 
Rado_N said:
People are far too obsessed with the trendy idea of keepers as outfield players. Ultimately the first and biggest part of the job is keeping the ball out of the net and DDG excels at that.

Some of the posts in here about how any old keeper can make saves are just plain stupid. I’m sorry, but they are.

99% of keepers between the sticks today and were 0-2 down. You can bang on about creativity all you like but he kept us in it today, and that’s not an anomaly.
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He did great today but the criticism is that his shot stopping just isn't as good as it used to be really. He was the best in the world at it until 2018 or so. But he's fallen off a cliff since then. He's not excelling at the shot stopping bit to a "best in the league" rate like he used to, which really makes his weaknesses stand out. No, he doesn't need to be some crazy sweeper keeper or have elite passing ability (he has improved though obviously it's not a strong point still and it does hold back our build up play). But the biggest problem is just the combination of just traditional keeper in the PL things. Reading crosses, dealing with high balls, corners etc. It's a huge problem of his and always has been. He's alright, but he's just nothing more than an average goalkeeper these days when you look at the overall package.
 
bosnian_red said:
He did great today but the criticism is that his shot stopping just isn't as good as it used to be really. He was the best in the world at it until 2018 or so. But he's fallen off a cliff since then. He's not excelling at the shot stopping bit to a "best in the league" rate like he used to, which really makes his weaknesses stand out. No, he doesn't need to be some crazy sweeper keeper or have elite passing ability (he has improved though obviously it's not a strong point still and it does hold back our build up play). But the biggest problem is just the combination of just traditional keeper in the PL things. Reading crosses, dealing with high balls, corners etc. It's a huge problem of his and always has been. He's alright, but he's just nothing more than an average goalkeeper these days when you look at the overall package.
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Yea that’s all just nonsense, sorry. He’s even noticeably improved at high balls and corners, I’ve commented to people a few times over the last few weeks how he’s come out and out some solid punches on crosses/corners and cleared the danger.

His shot stopping is phenomenal, I’m just not having it that he’s average it’s a ridiculous idea. The criticism of him is just on trend and it’s become a go-to move.
 
He's definitely getting better at his overall play. Happy to wait and watch for another year if he signs a deal on reasonable wages. Just worried that he'll sign a 200k p/w deal (still a significant cut from 350k p/w) and no other team in the world can afford him if he doesn't work out here.
 
Rado_N said:
Yea that’s all just nonsense, sorry. He’s even noticeably improved at high balls and corners, I’ve commented to people a few times over the last few weeks how he’s come out and out some solid punches on crosses/corners and cleared the danger.

His shot stopping is phenomenal, I’m just not having it that he’s average it’s a ridiculous idea. The criticism of him is just on trend and it’s become a go-to move.
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It's really not. There are loads of analytics out there that can be used to track a whole variety of different goalkeeper attributes now. The same analytics that pointed to him previously being an elite goalkeeper having generational seasons now point to that simply not being the case. That's not some random trend/bias, it's just the case that he makes far too many mistakes now. Yes, great shot stopped. Occasionally will concede a goal like vs Brentford and vs Everton off the top of my head.

His dealing with corners was actually good vs Barca, fair play there. But in general, that was 1 game that was very different to the norm. I've posted the table multiple times on here, that John Harrison guy on twitter who does great stuff with goalkeeper analysis. Not sure if he posts new updates or if it's more private now but his last one was at the world Cup point of the season that showed De Geas worth in +/- goals taking everything into account had him well down the table in ranking. The same sort of table where he used to consistently be at the top. He's just not a top goalkeeper anymore.
 
Rado_N said:
People are far too obsessed with the trendy idea of keepers as outfield players. Ultimately the first and biggest part of the job is keeping the ball out of the net and DDG excels at that.

Some of the posts in here about how any old keeper can make saves are just plain stupid. I’m sorry, but they are.

99% of keepers between the sticks today and were 0-2 down. You can bang on about creativity all you like but he kept us in it today, and that’s not an anomaly.
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This, there's still no greater shot stopper, that's my number one priority in a keeper.
 
Rado_N said:
Yea that’s all just nonsense, sorry. He’s even noticeably improved at high balls and corners, I’ve commented to people a few times over the last few weeks how he’s come out and out some solid punches on crosses/corners and cleared the danger.

His shot stopping is phenomenal, I’m just not having it that he’s average it’s a ridiculous idea. The criticism of him is just on trend and it’s become a go-to move.
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I've wanted us to move on from him for several seasons now;

The punches have definitely been notable, some could have been caught but others were properly difficult balls and credit to him as for a decade he simply didn't do it, whether it was a punch or a catch.

His shot stopping is 100% still elite and he as always makes reaction saves other keepers just don't.

I don't think his feet are any better, I think the coaching, tactics and personel just are, when he plays with Varane, Dalot and Martinez it rarely looks like an issue beyond a few misplaced mid range/long balls, when (mainly) Maguire and a few others are in the back line he regresses alongside their instability.

I'd like a new keeper in the summer to challenge and because i'd love to see the difference a really capable ball playing keeper would make but there's no guarantee anyone would displace him on this form and if money is an issue it would not be a priority for me.
 
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Disappointed seeing some of the comments in this thread. I wouldn't replace DDG for anyone.
 
bosnian_red said:
It's really not. There are loads of analytics out there that can be used to track a whole variety of different goalkeeper attributes now. The same analytics that pointed to him previously being an elite goalkeeper having generational seasons now point to that simply not being the case. That's not some random trend/bias, it's just the case that he makes far too many mistakes now. Yes, great shot stopped. Occasionally will concede a goal like vs Brentford and vs Everton off the top of my head.

His dealing with corners was actually good vs Barca, fair play there. But in general, that was 1 game that was very different to the norm. I've posted the table multiple times on here, that John Harrison guy on twitter who does great stuff with goalkeeper analysis. Not sure if he posts new updates or if it's more private now but his last one was at the world Cup point of the season that showed De Geas worth in +/- goals taking everything into account had him well down the table in ranking. The same sort of table where he used to consistently be at the top. He's just not a top goalkeeper anymore.
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If you used that same dumb logic, you'd have Haaland as a shit striker, that City would do well to just bin and get somebody else in. There's been games where he's had a few touches in opposition boxes. He's certainly affected the City dynamic on the pitch but his goals tally is off the charts and that's what City bought him for. Are you saying they should get rid of him because of the deficiencies in his game?

At the end of the day, a goalie's basic job is shot-stopping. And you don't get much better than DDG.
 
The more people tell me he's shit this season, the more I love the guy. Keep on keeping on, Dave.
 
Although he has a tons of weaknesses expect shot stopping, but from emotion, I do want to see him to lift up the trophy of the league with Manutd at least one more time. He stayed and saved us times to times in the darkest era.
 
RedPed said:
If you used that same dumb logic, you'd have Haaland as a shit striker, that City would do well to just bin and get somebody else in. There's been games where he's had a few touches in opposition boxes. He's certainly affected the City dynamic on the pitch but his goals tally is off the charts and that's what City bought him for. Are you saying they should get rid of him because of the deficiencies in his game?

At the end of the day, a goalie's basic job is shot-stopping. And you don't get much better than DDG.
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We are Manchester United. Quite simply, there are a lot more things to a goalkeeper than just shot stopping. Go back 15 years and de Gea would be criticized even then for his weaknesses with aerial balls, claiming crosses etc. This isn't some new age thing. It's an ever lasting issue with him. He's not the worst keeper in the prem but he is very far from the best. 5 years ago he was the best because his shot stopping was just that good. It's not quite that level anymore
 
bosnian_red said:
We are Manchester United. Quite simply, there are a lot more things to a goalkeeper than just shot stopping. Go back 15 years and de Gea would be criticized even then for his weaknesses with aerial balls, claiming crosses etc. This isn't some new age thing. It's an ever lasting issue with him. He's not the worst keeper in the prem but he is very far from the best. 5 years ago he was the best because his shot stopping was just that good. It's not quite that level anymore
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I just go with what I see rather than some set of arbitrary statistics and if not for De Gea today, the result could have been very different. He's good enough for United and ain't going nowhere.
 
pratyush_utd said:
Yes i agree our performance will get better (and your analysis is usually better) but we need reinforcements in other places as well. Think we can get understudy to him for cheap. But i dont consider replacing him a priority.
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It's one of the top 3 priority IMO because if we don't change now, how can we progress to be a team that can play from the back against any oppositions? DDG usefulness is in his shot stopper which coincidentally he was only required if we keep playing sloppy players like Fred that give the ball away in our half cheaply or if we decide to sit back.
 
Definitely the least of our priorities. Signing him back up should be top. Has his weaknesses but still an elite shot stopper. Goals for and against are still what wins games and he still makes those saves that others can't.

Why would you blow the budget on a gk when our top priority has to be striker followed by a midfield.
 
Adnan said:
It's not only about this game mate, it's about De Gea being unsuited to the positional play principles of Erik ten Hag. And I'm supporting his ( ten Hag) idea to come to fruition. And ten Hag has adapted to De Gea's weaknesses where players like Martinez are positioned next to him when the opponent is positioned in their defensive shape in a midblock.

I've said for years that De Gea isn't saving us, but is rather contributing to the chaos that is ensuing, especially in the defensive third. I'm still waiting for us to replace Van der Sar.
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You clearly seem to know ETH and what he wants. So tell me, why do ETH give him a new massive contract?

Enlighten me
 
How stupid can you be if you want to get rid of David now. He saved our arses twice today, just about every other
goalkeeper would have let them in.

Also noticed his passing was good today. He is not suoerb at it, but does ok.

Getting rid of him now would be dumb.
 
Andersonson said:
You clearly seem to know ETH and what he wants. So tell me, why do ETH give him a new massive contract?

Enlighten me
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Why does Erik ten Hag give him a massive new contract?

He hasn't as far as I know and De Gea is currently free to talk to rival clubs and is about 3 months away from being released. If he was so important then they wouldn't have allowed things to get to a stage where he can legally agree a pre-contract with another club.

There has been tier 1 reports about the club wanting to keep him on 'significantly' reduced wages. But there's also been talk about Tony Coton being deployed to find a goalkeeper who fits the profile that ten Hag wants.
 
NLunited said:
How stupid can you be if you want to get rid of David now. He saved our arses twice today, just about every other
goalkeeper would have let them in.

Also noticed his passing was good today. He is not suoerb at it, but does ok.

Getting rid of him now would be dumb.
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His passing was good today? Almost every time he kicked long, we lost the ball. His passing is the least favorite part of his game for me, but yeah a top shot stopper.

Would keep him if he is on reduced wages and has genuine competition for his spot, rather than him being undisputed #1.
 
NK86 said:
His passing was good today? Almost every time he kicked long, we lost the ball. His passing is the least favorite part of his game for me, but yeah a top shot stopper.

Would keep him if he is on reduced wages and has genuine competition for his spot, rather than him being undisputed #1.
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No, we did not lose the ball every time. There were several 40+ yards passes that found their mark as well. Maybe you need to pay better attention.

The best passing gk in the world might have let in two goals today.

Replacing De Gea is absolutely not a priority.
 
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Kelly15 said:
Why would you blow the budget on a gk when our top priority has to be striker followed by a midfield.
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ETH claims to be doing long-term planning. In the short term he may not be the perfect goalie. But with the dearth of outstanding strikers available (and the expected outrageous prices demanded) and the need to strengthen our midfield, replacing DDG is a lowish priority.

Maybe we get a strong ball progressor like a De Jong it would minimise DDG's weakness. And give DDG more passing outlets.
 
NK86 said:
His passing was good today? Almost every time he kicked long, we lost the ball. His passing is the least favorite part of his game for me, but yeah a top shot stopper.

Would keep him if he is on reduced wages and has genuine competition for his spot, rather than him being undisputed #1.
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He gave the ball away every single time he kicked it long in the first half. In the second half Martinez dropped right next to him in the build up phase.

Erik ten Hag did say he was building for the long-term, but the first phase of the build up should be a priority for a coach who wants to exert zonal and positional control. I'd be very surprised if a new keeper doesn't arrive.
 
Replacing a well established gk for their passing ability is a very high risk gamble, more than any other position on field.

We could so easily come off so much worse than de gea
 
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