Dayot Upamecano | Signs for Bayern

[Deery]

Mate you need to take a deep breath, all the passive aggressiveness is never endearing on the internet. It’s just a forum ffs. You said we only conceded an OG vs PSG which is a misleading statement given we also conceded vs Newcastle.
And great about the clean sheet (I actually think we defended well in that but I wasn’t talking about that in my last post, we still didn’t win the match as you said. If you’re going to get all chippy at least be accurate

I was worked up because the guy called me an idiot, perfectly understandable.

Am not being passive aggressive, you never read the post right.

We’ve done well in our last 4 I should have said, and our defenders deserve a bit of credit for it.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't really like to hype young players and can see why some may want to have a pop but yesterday I noticed two issues that got worser with each minutes. Leipzig center midfield was hopeless, they failed to have any sort of grip on the game and in the second half they were absolutely useless and with and without the ball which put a lot of pressure on the back three, it was particularly obvious when Upamecano was the only player able to consistently bring the ball from the defensive third to the attacking third. The other issue is that they have no top talent on the attacking side and they failed to maintain any sort of pressure on us which again meant that we were able to quickly get the ball back and put pressure on their back three.

The game felt like Man Utd against Leipzig's back three and the latter eventually broke down. Lepizig reminds me Nice under Puel and Favre, they were generally good because the teams were playing good football as a team but if one area failed everything would breakdown, that's the issue when you don't have great talents everywhere in your XI.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I think he has potential no doubt but people are expecting him to fix our defense when he comes here while I think his initial impact will be that of a less injury prone Bailly.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He isn't a better defender than what we have, but he's much better on the ball and would allow us to play a higher defensive line safer - that's the main difference.

Eventually if we want to press high like the best teams you need to have an athletic defence that isn't worried about balls over the top.

Whether we can rely on Tuanzebe instead, but I think for the price (£40m)? then it's crazy not to buy him.

 

[Le Red]

I think he has potential no doubt but people are expecting him to fix our defense when he comes here while I think his initial impact will be that of a less injury prone Bailly.

To be fair, Bailly would be amazing if he wasn't made of glass and a red card hazard.

 

[lysglimt]

Of course he is a very good footballer, but it was one of those games where everything went wrong

 

[RedSky]

He was excellent in the first half, but once the 2nd goal went in he lost his head completely, he wasn't really making much of an effort to track back.

I don't really like to hype young players and can see why some may want to have a pop but yesterday I noticed two issues that got worser with each minutes. Leipzig center midfield was hopeless, they failed to have any sort of grip on the game and in the second half they were absolutely useless and with and without the ball which put a lot of pressure on the back three, it was particularly obvious when Upamecano was the only player able to consistently bring the ball from the defensive third to the attacking third. The other issue is that they have no top talent on the attacking side and they failed to maintain any sort of pressure on us which again meant that we were able to quickly get the ball back and put pressure on their back three.

The game felt like Man Utd against Leipzig's back three and the latter eventually broke down. Lepizig reminds me Nice under Puel and Favre, they were generally good because the teams were playing good football as a team but if one area failed everything would breakdown, that's the issue when you don't have great talents everywhere in your XI.

They took off Henrichs and brought on Sabitzer to make them more offensive minded and we took immediate advantage of that by bringing on Bruno to expose the extra space. Then for some reason they took off Kampl who was the only midfielder left with any ounce of defensive ability and left the back door completely open and we punished them for it. Felt like suicide to me once they took off Kampl when we had a fresh eager Rashford on the pitch.

 

[gza the genius]

So if you played against Messi and he scored 3 quality goals you'd apologize to your changing room. Yeah sure you would

Our attacking players did some great things. Why is it impossible for them to get a bit of credit?

Just came from the Fred thread where you've done basically nothing but criticize him to this being the first post I read in here... Very weird agenda you seem to have.

 

[Ekeke]

Just came from the Fred thread where you've done basically nothing but criticize him to this being the first post I read in here... Very weird agenda you seem to have.

Seems you're the one with an agenda, following me from other threads to complain.

What does Fred have to do with giving Rashford and Fernandes credit for being incredibly sharp when they came on and blitzed the defence with their attacking ability, and would have done so against almost any defenders on that form with that speed of thought from Fernandes and Rashford being a clinical livewire?

Thats right nothing. So once again you've just inserted your agenda

 

[gza the genius]

Seems you're the one with an agenda, following me from other threads to complain.

What does Fred have to do with giving Rashford and Fernandes credit for being incredibly sharp when they came on and blitzed the defence with their attacking ability, and would have done so against almost any defenders on that form with that speed of thought from Fernandes and Rashford being a clinical livewire?

Thats right nothing. So once again you've just inserted your agenda

Your post in here just so happened to be the first I saw after coming from the Fred thread.

You're criticizing Fred for giving the ball away a couple of times (didn't lead to a goal) despite him directly contributing to 4 of our goals. Leipzig are very well known for their pressing as well, so why can't it be that they pressed well?

Then you come in here and despite Upamecano being directly at fault for 3 of our 5 goals say it's not fair to blame him and that our attackers just played well. It's just a weird double standard. You clearly just don't like Fred.

 

[Shane88]

Strikes me as more of a DM doing a job at centre half. Mad to drive up the field and show off his passing, which is impressive.

 

[AltiUn]

I don't really like to hype young players and can see why some may want to have a pop but yesterday I noticed two issues that got worser with each minutes. Leipzig center midfield was hopeless, they failed to have any sort of grip on the game and in the second half they were absolutely useless and with and without the ball which put a lot of pressure on the back three, it was particularly obvious when Upamecano was the only player able to consistently bring the ball from the defensive third to the attacking third. The other issue is that they have no top talent on the attacking side and they failed to maintain any sort of pressure on us which again meant that we were able to quickly get the ball back and put pressure on their back three.

The game felt like Man Utd against Leipzig's back three and the latter eventually broke down. Lepizig reminds me Nice under Puel and Favre, they were generally good because the teams were playing good football as a team but if one area failed everything would breakdown, that's the issue when you don't have great talents everywhere in your XI.

I might be wrong but it felt like their defence suffered the exact same way ours did in the opening 3 games, Maguire and Lindelof got no protection from midfield either and looked like pub players because of it. If you let quality attackers run at defenders over and over again, no matter who the defender is the attacker will get the best of them eventually and if you get the beating of a CB that usually results in a 1 on 1 with a keeper.

 

[JPRouve]

I might be wrong but it felt like their defence suffered the exact same way ours did in the opening 3 games, Maguire and Lindelof got no protection from midfield either and looked like pub players because of it. If you let quality attackers run at defenders over and over again, no matter who the defender is the attacker will get the best of them eventually and if you get the beating of a CB that usually results in a 1 on 1 with a keeper.

It felt that way because it was progressive. It reminded me the Spurs game and in fact Upamecano's game was similar to Maguire's where he tried to force things in the last third and wasn't in place when the attack unsurprisingly failed. People focus too much on individuals, in both cases while the players made mistakes those mistakes were the fruit of poor team organization and in the case of Leipzig a subpar attacking force.
I know that many posters don't want to accept that fact but United have very good players and should be a Top 10 team in Europe, our issues are due to punctual poor coaching which is shown everytime Ole decides to take logical decisions/actions, thats when we can see that the coaching staff can implement good tactical plans and that the players are able to execute them. In the case of Leipzig it was a similar problem, as @RedSky mentioned things got worse with every boneheaded decisions that Nagelsmann took, he is a very coach because his teams isn't as talented as their regular level would make you believe but when he fails to concoct the perfect plan you can see how they completely implode and their back three was totally exposed for the entirety of the game.

Also the way Ole organized the attack meant that we stretched their back three with both strikers starting outside of the RCB and LCBs while Van De Beek played almost like a false nine and occupied the CB, it meant that our attackers were never doubled without leaving an other attacker completely free and since Leipzig wingbacks weren't tracking deep or covering inside.

On a side note that game is a case for a flat midfield three and switching between a 433 and 4312. I wanted to see it for a while and it's convincing.

 

[Ace of Spades]

A very good talent, but we have some good players as well. He had a bad game, which happens at times.

 

[Ekeke]

Your post in here just so happened to be the first I saw after coming from the Fred thread.

You're criticizing Fred for giving the ball away a couple of times (didn't lead to a goal) despite him directly contributing to 4 of our goals. Leipzig are very well known for their pressing as well, so why can't it be that they pressed well?

Then you come in here and despite Upamecano being directly at fault for 3 of our 5 goals say it's not fair to blame him and that our attackers just played well. It's just a weird double standard. You clearly just don't like Fred.

Sure it did

I didnt say its not fair to blame Upamecano, I said theres 1 worrying mistake which was when Rashford went past him. The rest was great play from our attackers and he didnt necessarily do the wrong thing in those situations, he took a chance and the defense and midfield should be expected to cover. If they fail to do that its as much their fault as it is his.

Also note its completely different when you have the ball and you have a lack of awareness or a poor touch that gives the ball to the opposition, vs. trying to confront the opposition's best player during a move so he doesnt have time on the ball. Upamacano was proactive in trying to win the ball while his team should be able to cover him, thats different from being caught on the ball in a dangerous area because the opposition have sprung a pressing trap on you.

Leizpig did press well, but this is a mancherster united forum and we're talking about the United players. I do try to give the opposition credit too but the focus is on how our players did and celebrating the things they did well as well as being honest about what they didnt. Fred struggled especially in the first half before the opposition lost their heads when Rashford scored. Matic and Pogba didnt struggle quite as much with retaining the ball.

 

[wolvored]

We do actually! Mengi has all the tools to be a fantastic player

Great. We should be giving him game time in the domestic cups see if he comes good

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

Sure it did

I didnt say its not fair to blame Upamecano, I said theres 1 worrying mistake which was when Rashford went past him. The rest was great play from our attackers and he didnt necessarily do the wrong thing in those situations, he took a chance and the defense and midfield should be expected to cover. If they fail to do that its as much their fault as it is his.

Also note its completely different when you have the ball and you have a lack of awareness or a poor touch that gives the ball to the opposition, vs. trying to confront the opposition's best player during a move so he doesnt have time on the ball. Upamacano was proactive in trying to win the ball while his team should be able to cover him, thats different from being caught on the ball in a dangerous area because the opposition have sprung a pressing trap on you.

Leizpig did press well, but this is a mancherster united forum and we're talking about the United players. I do try to give the opposition credit too but the focus is on how our players did and celebrating the things they did well as well as being honest about what they didnt. Fred struggled especially in the first half before the opposition lost their heads when Rashford scored. Matic and Pogba didnt struggle quite as much with retaining the ball.

Fred was brilliant. Probably MOTM for me. To each their own

 

[cyberman]

Sure it did

I didnt say its not fair to blame Upamecano, I said theres 1 worrying mistake which was when Rashford went past him. The rest was great play from our attackers and he didnt necessarily do the wrong thing in those situations, he took a chance and the defense and midfield should be expected to cover. If they fail to do that its as much their fault as it is his.

Also note its completely different when you have the ball and you have a lack of awareness or a poor touch that gives the ball to the opposition, vs. trying to confront the opposition's best player during a move so he doesnt have time on the ball. Upamacano was proactive in trying to win the ball while his team should be able to cover him, thats different from being caught on the ball in a dangerous area because the opposition have sprung a pressing trap on you.

Leizpig did press well, but this is a mancherster united forum and we're talking about the United players. I do try to give the opposition credit too but the focus is on how our players did and celebrating the things they did well as well as being honest about what they didnt. Fred struggled especially in the first half before the opposition lost their heads when Rashford scored. Matic and Pogba didnt struggle quite as much with retaining the ball.

It seems as if you are turning this around as to not give credit to your non favourites which is hugely unfair.
Fred was sensational.

 

[TMDaines]

I think the phase of play where he won the ball impressively, went on a nice driving run then lost the ball stupidly and looked like he was running through treacle trying to get back as Martial steamed in behind him sums his night up

Absolute vintage Bailly.

 

[Tony247]

I watched the highlighs just to observe Upamecano. His casual tracking back after losing possession was shocking. I don't watch RB so I don't know if this was one off or habitual performance. I hope former. But if he is really that casual then he won't fit at united for sure.

 

[DoomSlayer]

He's a proper baller, we just dismantled their whole team with our performance.

 

[Ekeke]

It seems as if you are turning this around as to not give credit to your non favourites which is hugely unfair.
Fred was sensational.

And to me it looks like you cant be rational about your favourite and admit that he did some things well but did some things poorly, so it clearly wasnt a sensational performance. It was half of one

 

[Ekeke]

Fred was brilliant. Probably MOTM for me. To each their own

"Everybody loves a trier" Sir Alex

 

[Damien]

I think the reason he's rated higher than Konate is his attacking contributions, whilst still having his insane 1v1 defending.

Potential wise he's definitely the higher of the 2, but right now I'd say Konate is more solid and dependable.

Konate's also been injured for the past year bar a couple of games at the end of last season. When Upamecano had his own injury problems and it was Konate in the back line, he was spoken about a fair bit and not as much said about Upamecano - out of sight, out of mind and all that. If Konate's injury problems are behind him, they'll make a very good pairing over the course of the rest of the season.

 

[poleglass red]

I watched the highlighs just to observe Upamecano. His casual tracking back after losing possession was shocking. I don't watch RB so I don't know if this was one off or habitual performance. I hope former. But if he is really that casual then he won't fit at united for sure.

I noticed that as well. I know he's young and there are aspects of his game that are obviously still developing but that's a bad habit he needs to get rid of. I rate him highly but he needs to shake that off, esp against teams like us who can break at pace.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

This thread. Knee-jerk café at it's finest. But I get now why there are people on here who think Ramos is the most overrated defender in the world. I guess they have seen him have a bad game and no good player would ever have one of those, no way sir.

I think people are probably saying he might be good but not the nailed on out of the box upgrade the hipsters think

 

[red woppit]

He was excellent in the first half, but once the 2nd goal went in he lost his head completely, he wasn't really making much of an effort to track back.



They took off Henrichs and brought on Sabitzer to make them more offensive minded and we took immediate advantage of that by bringing on Bruno to expose the extra space. Then for some reason they took off Kampl who was the only midfielder left with any ounce of defensive ability and left the back door completely open and we punished them for it. Felt like suicide to me once they took off Kampl when we had a fresh eager Rashford on the pitch.

Perhaps Nagelsmann is not as 'hip' as people think.
Seriously though, he took a massive gamble by putting more offensive players on the pitch to try and nick a point, which the much maligned Ole Gunnar Solskjaer responded by putting on our most potent attacking force to take advantage of the spaces, which obviously worked.
Leipzig's back three were put under a lot of pressure those last 25 minutes, and as we saw against Spurs, if you leave your defence exposed, then disasters can happen. Upamecano actually played quite well I thought, but a couple of errors let him down badly. His passing, heading ability, pace and one on one tackling appears to be top notch, but awareness, and knowing when to play football or hoof the ball I think he has more to learn, but he is a player that would fit right into the way Ole wants United to play I think, but I think Tuanzebe could be very similar if given the opportunity.

 

[WR10]

Comfortable on the ball. Has a graceful anti-Smalling body mechanic when passing and dribbling. Easy on the eye.
However, you can tell he's not actually used to defending.

 

[Giggsyking]

He was easy to get through yesterday, cant judge from one game, but I was not impressed yesterday, Rashford mopped the turf with his face.

 

[Himannv]

He was excellent in the first half, but once the 2nd goal went in he lost his head completely, he wasn't really making much of an effort to track back.

They took off Henrichs and brought on Sabitzer to make them more offensive minded and we took immediate advantage of that by bringing on Bruno to expose the extra space. Then for some reason they took off Kampl who was the only midfielder left with any ounce of defensive ability and left the back door completely open and we punished them for it. Felt like suicide to me once they took off Kampl when we had a fresh eager Rashford on the pitch.

It actually looked like Sabitzer came on and played as a DM - even their players looked confused by that change. It was as if he was the one shielding the defence and that seems crazy to me. I've only ever seen him at RW or AM. Even Nkunku looked like he was playing deeper than usual. When I last watched them, they had Werner in that team and it looks like they haven't been able to replace him.

 

[Gordon S]

He had a bit of a shocker, but he is still very young for a CB, he will probably learn. Still a big talent!

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

"Everybody loves a trier" Sir Alex

While I find myself typically agreeing with you, I don't think you can isolate Fred like you have. He did make mistakes but his positives more than make up for it, you need these "Triers" as you call them, they do the rubbish job, even if it's running back (never getting the tackle in) but forcing the oppositions attacker to change his mind and other little things that aren't noticed, there's a reason we tend to perform better with him on the pitch. I don't think he was the second coming of Christ but he does seem pivotal in an unobvious way to most viewers (Sometimes myself included).

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

He had a bit of a shocker, but he is still very young for a CB, he will probably learn. Still a big talent!

Exactly, he's fast, strong and can tackle, he had a bad game! So did the whole team, he tried making up for it and ending up making more mistakes but so many of their players just dipped their heads, says more to me that he tried something, unfortunately it backfired and he looked visibly angry but they are all signs of someone who cares and will learn for it, he's no world beater but he is young and clearly has a lot of potential.

 

[HowYouDoin]

Big talent but we have Axel and then Mengi also coming up so probably we dont need him.

 

[Ekeke]

While I find myself typically agreeing with you, I don't think you can isolate Fred like you have. He did make mistakes but his positives more than make up for it, you need these "Triers" as you call them, they do the rubbish job, even if it's running back (never getting the tackle in) but forcing the oppositions attacker to change his mind and other little things that aren't noticed, there's a reason we tend to perform better with him on the pitch. I don't think he was the second coming of Christ but he does seem pivotal in an unobvious way to most viewers (Sometimes myself included).

He has positives, just like Tevez has positives - that quote was from Sir Alex about Tevez. He was a much better player too. But Fred is yet to match the player he came in to replace

 

[amolbhatia50k]

While I find myself typically agreeing with you, I don't think you can isolate Fred like you have. He did make mistakes but his positives more than make up for it, you need these "Triers" as you call them, they do the rubbish job, even if it's running back (never getting the tackle in) but forcing the oppositions attacker to change his mind and other little things that aren't noticed, there's a reason we tend to perform better with him on the pitch. I don't think he was the second coming of Christ but he does seem pivotal in an unobvious way to most viewers (Sometimes myself included).

He's a useful player for sure. But I think he has to stop giving the ball away in dangerous positions. Dont it a few times even in the better games he's had. But I do like his terrier like qualities. They do add a lot to our team. However, if he wants to become a really high quality CM he has to improve how assured and reliable he is.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

He has positives, just like Tevez has positives - that quote was from Sir Alex about Tevez. He was a much better player too. But Fred is yet to match the player he came in to replace

I hate the notion of a player replacing another, we tend to evolve with every players different play style but I get your point.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

He's a useful player for sure. But I think he has to stop giving the ball away in dangerous positions. Dont it a few times even in the better games he's had. But I do like his terrier like qualities. They do add a lot to our team. However, if he wants to become a really high quality CM he has to improve how assured and reliable he is.

100%, too often it's a simple mistake, the simple option sometimes is the better option, I actually think; and I'm going to put it out there although I'm sure many will disagree, it's a downside of squad depth, some (Fred Included) try too hard to do something special.

 

[mav_9me]

He was excellent in the first half, but once the 2nd goal went in he lost his head completely, he wasn't really making much of an effort to track back.



They took off Henrichs and brought on Sabitzer to make them more offensive minded and we took immediate advantage of that by bringing on Bruno to expose the extra space. Then for some reason they took off Kampl who was the only midfielder left with any ounce of defensive ability and left the back door completely open and we punished them for it. Felt like suicide to me once they took off Kampl when we had a fresh eager Rashford on the pitch.

That last bit of taking off Kampl reflects very poorly on Nagelsman. I'd be fuming if I was an Leipzig fan.

 

[RedSky]

That last bit of taking off Kampl reflects very poorly on Nagelsman. I'd be fuming if I was an Leipzig fan.

I can only assume he thought "feck it, lets go for it, what do we have to lose?", but ultimately very naive from him. You don't do that against a counter attacking team. Either way, from Leipzigs perspective the next two games will determine the group.