Don’t think that’s because of how good Raya might be… think that’s more because everyone’s sick of DDG poor distribution and mistakes.
David Raya
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It's fascinating how him, Pope and Martinez are all considered commanders of their box yet those three teams concede far more goals to corner kicks and own goals than the rest of the top 10.
De Gea already has 7% (71% vs 64%) better pass accuracy working with wingers like Sancho (14% aerials won), Antony (20%) and Rashford (33%). If he had Mbeumo (35%), Wissa (48%) and Toney (48%) instead the gap would be wider.
Raya has fantastic distribution of the ball. Apart from that he's average and not top 4 quality. Dont take my word for it though, thats the view of the best player analysis channel on youtube.
Really hope Spurs sign him as he will be a huge upgrade for us in terms of distribution from the back. He is also home grown which is very helpful (even though he is Spanish)
Spurs is perfect for him. Don't think he's better than prime Lloris but will do a good enough job.
Keepers who don’t make mistakes are hard to find. I actually like Raya and after 2-3 seasons he might well be a great long-term acquisition, but unless we’re all prepared to cope with Raya’s mistakes and not plan on lifting any major trophies it’s going to be a long 2-3 seasons.
I am afraid we are going to persist with DDG. We are a club that refuses to fix any problematic positions until it grew to the size of a supernova. As long as DDG doesn't give away 5 free goals per game next season he will continue to be our undisputed number one.
Don’t think he’s world class. But he’s appealing because the price is low, he'd be a quick and easy transfer, he has premier league experience, his style of play is a better fit for the manager and he’s better than what we have now.
There are other keepers out there that are better in various ways but it's not clear that we have the budget for it. Though if Kane is off the table now, maybe we do after all.
There are other keepers out there that are better in various ways but it's not clear that we have the budget for it. Though if Kane is off the table now, maybe we do after all.
It just seems like such an obvious way of massively upgrading our keeper, at a relatively reasonable price.As it is we will either renew de gea or go for someone like Costa who we will find hard to get and may take time to adapt to the pl. It does feel lime very little has changed in terms of our transfer dealings
“Massively upgrading”
Ball playing only.
What low price are you talking about? Brenford reportedly want 40m pounds. For a player going into his last year of contract that's just ridiculous.
Even if that were true, which it clearly isn't unless we're saying that he deals with as many crosses as Raya or sweeps as well as Raya does, or even that he allows us to play as high a line as Brentford (fecking Brentford), all of which would be obviously incorrect, is there a problem with that? Surely people saw the difference in the Cup Final where their back-up goalkeeper was a genuine option in possession and was able to pass through the lines to begin attacks and therefore find players in space easier, whereas our goalkeeper just kicked the ball up in the air for their defenders to win relatively unchallenged more often than not, or kicked it straight through to their goalkeeper, or even straight out of play.
We have a goalkeeper who has literally one area of goalkeeping he is good at, and even that area is nowhere near the level people think it is because for every supposedly unbelievable save, there is a goal allowed from a shot most average goalkeepers do stop. It's really not a difficult position to "upgrade". Raya isn't the top level goalkeeper we might be wanting long-term but to suggest he wouldn't be a considerable upgrade on our current goalkeeper is plainly wrong.
The fact that a player is in the last yr of their contract is only a factor if there is a prospect of them staying and seeing out their contract and there's only one club interested, since that is what puts the pressure on the selling club to sell for less. This doesn't appear to be the case with Raya, who seems to have other clubs interested, so a simple auction of interested clubs determines his value.
Generally speaking £20M or less will get you a solid prospect from somewhere like the French league. There's plenty of great prospects out there, but obviously, there's more risk. £60M+ is what you're looking at to get a keeper who's excelled at a big(ish) club, especially in the top 5 leagues. Raya in the middle at £40M is about right, he's been mid-table, but has done well there and has a couple of seasons of our league so will need less time to acclimatise.
So overall, the price seems about right to me, both in terms of only paying what he's worth, but also in terms of the impact on our summer budget.
I’m saying that we should be able to get someone to be better with the ball than DeGea but is better at goalkeeping basics than Raya. You could probably get Onana for the same price!
This is the way I see it. Yes Raya would improve our build up playing out from the back, but de Gea has made plenty of difficult and reflex saves that I wouldn't back Raya to make.
We need a complete 'keeper or a young one we can mould into the complete 'keeper. Buying Raya just because he was/is cheap isn't the answer.
Ability on the ball.
Dealing with crosses.
Sweeping.
All things that he is massively better at. Hell, statistically he's comfortably better at shot-stopping as well.
In other words pay up
In other words pay up
£40m? Yeah, we ain’t paying that. Maybe you can convince Spurs to cough that kind of money up.
United, spurs or maybe chelsea - as long as somebody does not that bothered
but I do think he would shine at United.I actually remember seeing some stats that said his shot stopping isn't much to right home about.
Long range shot in particular he scores a lot lower than DDG.
I personally think he'd still be better for us, as the things he's stronger at will suit us better.
United, spurs or maybe chelsea - as long as somebody does not that bothered
Chelsea will have no issues overpaying for players, they’ll probably give you £50m. I think he’d be a decent option for Utd but if we’re forking out serious money for a keeper I’d much rather we spent it on Costa instead.
Yeah my order of preference would be
Onana
Costa
Martinez
Verbruggen
Raya
Pickford
If he went to Portsmouth, it could be a case of "pay up, Pompey"In other words pay up
Not convinced he's the right option of us at that price. But then again, not convnced Pickford is at any price. So horses for courses as relates to available options.
Is the Porto guy really worth £70M?
We’d get him for around £30m, at least £5m of that being add-ons
Whether there are other suiters it's irrelevant if we are approaching deals correctly. Best run clubs manage to successfully avoid bidding wars, never mind for a mediocre PL player in the last year of his contract.
Fulham bough Leno for peanuts, Martinez to Villa for less than 20m, Pope to Newcastle for 12m, and you are telling me 40m for David fecking Raya is okey? Yeah Woodward would be proud with that one.
Aye, Onana would be a great option as well but I think him and Ten Hag had a falling out at Ajax, so I’m not sure if they’re on good terms again or not.
There’s that word “massively” again. He’s really not a massive improvement on anything apart from kicking it accurately. For 40m I’d expect a massive improvement
You don't think he's massively better at dealing with crosses and sweeping? If anything I'd say there's a bigger gap in those two aspects than there is in their passing.
He stops crosses at three times the rate De Gea does. I'd say that's a massive improvement too.
Of 22 PL goalkeepers this season it's the second best versus the second worst in that regard.
In fairness a wheelie bin would be better at sweeping that DeGea if you put on outside the 18 yard line
Do you think he’s a 40m keeper? Do you think he’s better than Onana who you could probably get for 45-50?
Nah, you can't tell me he isn't better than de gea at commanding his area and sweeping up behind a defence. He also better than de gea has been at shotstopping over recent years
The first point is irrelevant. Yes it'd be great if we could always find players who no-one else knew about & who would only come to us, but that clearly isnt the case here. So yes, the other suitors do influence the price.
On your second point, Raya pretty much outperformed all those keepers this season, other than perhaps Leno, so yeah, I'd say he's worth more than them. Doubly so when you look at the profile of keeper we're looking for. The idea that he's comparable to Martinez is particularly daft, he was crap this season, in the league anyway. Pope was certainly great value, it's not often you get a keeper that good in a relegation fire sale. We should have moved on him, but we didn't because we kept faith with De Gea. We missed out. if there's another keeper on the market as good as him at that price, I'm up for that. But I'm not aware of any.
As for the Woodward jibe, I can hardly think of a less Woodward-like deal than David Raya. Giving David De Gea a long-term contract as the best paid keeper in the world immediately after his worst season, that was peak Woodward.
There is a big difference between "always find players that no one else knew" and be reasonable while approaching deals. David Raya for 40m pounds in the last year of his contract even if Chelsea and Spurs are interested is absolute lunacy.
And not sure how Raya outperformed Leno and Martinez, maybe you can point out some stats but you also mentioned "this season", which also gets us to the fact whether Raya is also a one season wonder, and a very small one at that. I've seen the 3 of them often this season, I'd still take Martinez over Raya and even Leno too. And even if you say a 28 year old Raya is worth more than, is he worth double what Martinez cost?
Gettind Raya for some fee of a 10-15m pounds, I'd count as a shrewd deal, even though I think he will be very underwhelming and come up short. Overpaying by about 30m and buying him for what Brenford are asking is peak Woodward shit deal.
If £40m was the fixed price I would agree with you. But Brentford aren't getting £40m for him, despite their posturing they will eventually sell him for £25m or so. Their succession planning which is usually a positive makes their position with Raya more difficult as they have already signed his replacement on a long-term contract. They are a self confessed selling club and won't miss the opportunity to sell a player they will lose for free next season after spending £12m or so on Flekken.
Raya is a ball playing keeper but his shot stopping abilities seem average. Would he be an improvement on De Gea? For sure but we still need better than him.
Also for the price quoted of 40M I would rather get Onana who's better, younger and would cost around 50M. I don't think things ended up well between Onana and ten Hag though.
Also for the price quoted of 40M I would rather get Onana who's better, younger and would cost around 50M. I don't think things ended up well between Onana and ten Hag though.
Yeah it very much hinges on whether wants to try and rebuild his relationship with him,otherwise think there is a very strong chance he will be Pochettino's first signing at Chelsea
It's either Onana or Costa for me. If we want to go down the ball playing route, then get the best at ball playing. Up until now there have been no links to Onana at all since ETH came to Utd so to me that suggests no interest. Most likely it did not end well at all at Ajax as he had to be dropped towards the end by ETH. So that leaves Costa....
Where is Lloris going if Spurs are signing him?
Verbruggen is also a very able alternative,however suspect Brighton will seal the deal for him pretty quickly
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