David Gill Transfer warchest v2012

Will Absolute said:
I'm not particularly interested in the commercial success of the club, or how well the business is controlled, if we can't get the players we want on the transfer market, or keep those we have.

Gill's only input on the football side is to conduct our transfer business, and he's been conspicuously unsuccessful at that. In recent years he hasn't succeeded in landing one of our major targets. Benzema, Toure, Nasri, Sanchez, Sneijder, Ozil have all passed us by. He played a major role in the loss of Tevez. If Gill hadn't been screwing around with Joorabchian in a misguided attempt to shave a few million off the agreed price, Tevez would have under contract, and couldn't have walked away from the club. It was only Fergie's personal intervention which kept Rooney at Old Trafford. Gill has rather sheepishly admitted that on MUTV.

Keeping the plumbing working at OT is all very well, but his most important function is to see that Fergie gets the players he wants, and he hasn't been doing much of a job.

Some will say that this criticism is unfair. But the buck stops on his desk. Fergie can take credit for our success on the pitch. Gill has to accept discredit for our failure off it.
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Oh my god, it sounds like you're actually gutted that we lost Tevez, and you're somehow blaming Gill for it.
That's just one point in a post full of utter bollocks.

HTH.
 
I think every intelligent post on the cafe has to be countered by multitude of nonsensical crappy walls of text.
 
Excal said:
Thanks for doing your part. :D
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In my defense my post wasn't a wall of text. ;)

Anyways, I do not understand how anyone could even think of using Tevez as an example to argue their point. We didn't dodge a bullet but an atomic bomb in his case. When certain players have their hearts set on certain clubs there is only so much we can do. Another stumbling block is the ludicrous amounts of money offered by Manchester City, I don't think anyone can compete with them in terms of salaries offered to players that don't deserve it.
 
You're blaming Gill because all the players you listed didn't sign for us ? That's a bit harsh. I think most of those players either cost too much or wanted to play elsewhere. Hard to peg that on Gill.
 
acrebo said:
Gill is a very, very intelligent man who is running one of the largest clubs, and commercially most successful and lucrative sports teams, in the World. He has an incredible wealth of business experience and knowledge, and is certainly far better placed to control the business than anyone on here could even begin to wish to.

And yet people on here think he's some dumb monkey who is simply tolerated within the club for no other reason than he's got his job through some kind of sentiment or favour.

It's unreal. The only dumb monkeys are people on forums like these that actually attempt to analyse his general, vague, media-friendly comments. They're PR spins to appease the media and supporters whilst enabling them to get on with actually doing what they're paid to behind the scenes - run the club incredibly successfully.

I'm positive our transfer kitty and policy is exactly the same as any other year. There's money available for the players that SAF and the scouting team identify can improve the team. If the targets are not attainable at a cost that represents value then they won't be purchased. If they are then Gill and SAF will attempt to agree to a deal that has mutual satisfaction for all parties involved, hopefully whilst avoiding the glare of the clubs who happily disregard any notion of control or long-term sustainability.

But that's just me.
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*applause*
 
Raoul said:
You're blaming Gill because all the players you listed didn't sign for us ? That's a bit harsh. I think most of those players either cost too much or wanted to play elsewhere. Hard to peg that on Gill.
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Whether or not they were targets of ours are anyones guess, for a start.
 
How can people blame Gill for not getting deals done (assuming we wanted all those players) when Real Madrid or Manchester City can throw money at them? If we regularly lost players to other clubs I could understand the complaint, but come on.

I feel much more comfortable with Gill than with Peter Kenyon. I feel he's much more in tune with a football club. Kenyon, for all his talk about 1968, may have been a good business man, I don't know. But football is business like no other business.
 
Will Absolute said:
I'm not particularly interested in the commercial success of the club, or how well the business is controlled, if we can't get the players we want on the transfer market, or keep those we have.

Gill's only input on the football side is to conduct our transfer business, and he's been conspicuously unsuccessful at that. In recent years he hasn't succeeded in landing one of our major targets. Benzema, Toure, Nasri, Sanchez, Sneijder, Ozil have all passed us by. He played a major role in the loss of Tevez. If Gill hadn't been screwing around with Joorabchian in a misguided attempt to shave a few million off the agreed price, Tevez would have under contract, and couldn't have walked away from the club. It was only Fergie's personal intervention which kept Rooney at Old Trafford. Gill has rather sheepishly admitted that on MUTV.

Keeping the plumbing working at OT is all very well, but his most important function is to see that Fergie gets the players he wants, and he hasn't been doing much of a job.

Some will say that this criticism is unfair. But the buck stops on his desk. Fergie can take credit for our success on the pitch. Gill has to accept discredit for our failure off it.
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Ridiculous to blame Gill for not landing those targets where in the majority of cases we were up against the likes of City, Real and Barca for those talents who will pay silly money for anyone. We are in a different financial situation where we have to work within the confines of a "budget" like a normal business would be run. Theoretically we could go around offering 200k plus to any player that takes our fancy but that would involve running the club into the ground.

We have to be a bit more tactical and try and tie up deals quickly and quietly like we tried to achieve with De Gea and Hernandez as examples. Believe it or not Gills job is not to appease the fans, rather to maximise the shareholders share value. In that respect he is doing the job he is paid for.

Of course on field success is a key issue in achieving that and as such we have invested a lot on playing staff. Not as much as City and their blank chequebook but who can? We are still achieving success, obviously not this season but only just. Gill has already said we are looking at options and there is money, Ferguson has said there is always money available for him to spend when he identifies someone.

To be honest I'm more happy with the way Gill and Ferguson are running things rather than chucking money at players just to appease the snobbish fans who can't accept that great players can be made not just bought. This same transfer policy has unearthed gems such as Vidic, Evra, Hernandez, De Gea, Smalling etc etc. Long may it continue
 
Sorry how can Gill be blamed for Nasri's signing for City. They offered him 70k more than us, what could've been done by us to stop that?
 
iSparky said:
David Gill is at the Harry Gregg testimonial in belfast tonight....searching for the now lost warchest....
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You don't think he'll put old Harry on the bench next year if Lindegaard's still on the sick list. Now that would be value and Harry would probably still put the fear of God into some opposition forwards.
 
Amir said:
How can people blame Gill for not getting deals done (assuming we wanted all those players) when Real Madrid or Manchester City can throw money at them? If we regularly lost players to other clubs I could understand the complaint, but come on.

I feel much more comfortable with Gill than with Peter Kenyon. I feel he's much more in tune with a football club. Kenyon, for all his talk about 1968, may have been a good business man, I don't know. But football is business like no other business.
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Gill has a better CV than Kenyon in my opinion, plus as far as I'm concerned chartered accountants make the best chief executives.
 
Raoul said:
You're blaming Gill because all the players you listed didn't sign for us ? That's a bit harsh. I think most of those players either cost too much or wanted to play elsewhere. Hard to peg that on Gill.
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I am being unfair of course, but the guy at the top has to carry the can for failure. Ask any of the managers who've lost their jobs in the PL recently.

My feeling about Gill is that he places too much emphasis on ingratiating himself with the owners by saving them a few million here and there, and too little on the footballing requirement to get the best players. He's the wrong person to be conducting our transfers. It should be a football guy, not a blooming accountant.
 
Will Absolute said:
I am being unfair of course, but the guy at the top has to carry the can for failure. Ask any of the managers who've lost their jobs in the PL recently.

My feeling about Gill is that he places too much emphasis on ingratiating himself with the owners by saving them a few million here and there, and too little on the footballing requirement to get the best players. He's the wrong person to be conducting our transfers. It should be a football guy, not a blooming accountant.
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Lucky for Gill then that United have experienced the most successful period in the history of the club with him as "the guy at the top".
 
I blame Gill every time I see a good player playing for another club and not us


Him and Phelan
 
Will Absolute said:
My feeling about Gill is that he places too much emphasis on ingratiating himself with the owners by saving them a few million here and there, and too little on the footballing requirement to get the best players. He's the wrong person to be conducting our transfers. It should be a football guy, not a blooming accountant.
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At the end of the day, it's the owners who give the OK to any deal and its costs. It's also club policy that dictates the sort of wages we can pay (until the ceiling of 50% from our income, etc). It's easy to say 'he didn't get the deals done, but he failed'. But that's like saying Moyes has failed because he didn't deliever a trophy for Everton. We're not the top dogs when it comes to pulling power, certainly not when it comes to money.
 
Amir said:
At the end of the day, it's the owners who give the OK to any deal and its costs. It's also club policy that dictates the sort of wages we can pay (until the ceiling of 50% from our income, etc). It's easy to say 'he didn't get the deals done, but he failed'. But that's like saying Moyes has failed because he didn't deliever a trophy for Everton. We're not the top dogs when it comes to pulling power, certainly not when it comes to money.
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The owners don't know shit about the game. How can they say how much a particular player is worth?

You have to judge on a record. The fact is he's dropped the ball repeatedly over the last 5/6 years. It may have been slippery, but he's dropped it.
 
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Will Absolute said:
The owners don't know shit about the game. How can they say how much a particular player is worth?

You have to judge on a record. The fact is he's dropped the ball repeatedly over the last 5/6 years. It may have been slippery, but he's dropped it.
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So, since Gill is shit, and it should be a football man making these decisions, and not an accountant/business man, who in the perfect world would you have as Manchester United CEO? (note, CEO is a business title, a role normally filled by businessmen)
 
Will Absolute said:
I am being unfair of course, but the guy at the top has to carry the can for failure. Ask any of the managers who've lost their jobs in the PL recently.

My feeling about Gill is that he places too much emphasis on ingratiating himself with the owners by saving them a few million here and there, and too little on the footballing requirement to get the best players. He's the wrong person to be conducting our transfers. It should be a football guy, not a blooming accountant.
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He has a fantastic background for this role, you have to remember that Manchester United is a business, SAF handles the football and Gill has expertly handled the business side of things. The Glazers would have replaced Gill with their own man had he not been performing well in his role.
 
The Neviller said:
So, since Gill is shit, and it should be a football man making these decisions, and not an accountant/business man, who in the perfect world would you have as Manchester United CEO? (note, CEO is a business title, a role normally filled by businessmen)
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Ideally, I'd like Fergie to conduct our transfer negotiations, with Gill assisting him. I'd like the emphasis to be on getting the player, not getting the player for the cheapest price, when that may involve a risk of losing him.
 
Will Absolute said:
The owners don't know shit about the game. How can they say how much a particular player is worth?

You have to judge on a record. The fact is he's dropped the ball repeatedly over the last 5/6 years. It may have been slippery, but he's dropped it.
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You must be privvy to some detailed info.

Of course he will have made mistakes, and will make them again. All people in positions like his do. Impossible not to.
 
acrebo said:
Gill is a very, very intelligent man who is running one of the largest clubs, and commercially most successful and lucrative sports teams, in the World. He has an incredible wealth of business experience and knowledge, and is certainly far better placed to control the business than anyone on here could even begin to wish to.

And yet people on here think he's some dumb monkey who is simply tolerated within the club for no other reason than he's got his job through some kind of sentiment or favour.

It's unreal. The only dumb monkeys are people on forums like these that actually attempt to analyse his general, vague, media-friendly comments. They're PR spins to appease the media and supporters whilst enabling them to get on with actually doing what they're paid to behind the scenes - run the club incredibly successfully.

I'm positive our transfer kitty and policy is exactly the same as any other year. There's money available for the players that SAF and the scouting team identify can improve the team. If the targets are not attainable at a cost that represents value then they won't be purchased. If they are then Gill and SAF will attempt to agree to a deal that has mutual satisfaction for all parties involved, hopefully whilst avoiding the glare of the clubs who happily disregard any notion of control or long-term sustainability.

But that's just me.
Click to expand...

Will Absolute said:
I'm not particularly interested in the commercial success of the club, or how well the business is controlled, if we can't get the players we want on the transfer market, or keep those we have.

Gill's only input on the football side is to conduct our transfer business, and he's been conspicuously unsuccessful at that. In recent years he hasn't succeeded in landing one of our major targets. Benzema, Toure, Nasri, Sanchez, Sneijder, Ozil have all passed us by. He played a major role in the loss of Tevez. If Gill hadn't been screwing around with Joorabchian in a misguided attempt to shave a few million off the agreed price, Tevez would have under contract, and couldn't have walked away from the club. It was only Fergie's personal intervention which kept Rooney at Old Trafford. Gill has rather sheepishly admitted that on MUTV.

Keeping the plumbing working at OT is all very well, but his most important function is to see that Fergie gets the players he wants, and he hasn't been doing much of a job.

Some will say that this criticism is unfair. But the buck stops on his desk. Fergie can take credit for our success on the pitch. Gill has to accept discredit for our failure off it.
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It's like the best and worst of the caf exemplified neatly in two posts.
 
Will Absolute said:
Ideally, I'd like Fergie to conduct our transfer negotiations, with Gill assisting him. I'd like the emphasis to be on getting the player, not getting the player for the cheapest price, when that may involve a risk of losing him.
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I'm sure it's a case of SAF identifying the players he wants and Gill brokering the deal with agents and clubs. You have to set a limit, I can't believe SAF would ever say: "Sign him whatever the price". You have to decide what he's worth to you and hope that your valuation and the selling party's valuation aren't too far off.
 
I'm sure Gill et all understands that no matter how you look at it the playing staff are the most important part of the jigsaw!
Less talented players =No success and trophies = less popularity/ reduced fanbase, fan spend = less Revenue and profits
If the Glazers want to maximise profits they have to keep the team competitive and full of quality. It's as simple as that. The football world is fickle

Blaming Gill is silly really, clubs throwing mental money around make it a nightmare to get good players.
The Glazers need to release more money for the playing staff or we need to find our own Arab or Oil magnate !
 
Will Absolute said:
Ideally, I'd like Fergie to conduct our transfer negotiations, with Gill assisting him. I'd like the emphasis to be on getting the player, not getting the player for the cheapest price, when that may involve a risk of losing him.
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How do we conduct our transfer dealings?
 
Will Absolute said:
My criticism of Gill is confined to our acquisition and retention of players. That is his responsibility.
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Your criticism of Gill is a moaning bit of muppetry, whinging that we're not signing the best players in the world every year, and blaming the chief executive for the fact that we have a wage structure that doesn't allow us to directly compete for signings with the likes of City and Real, despite the fact that doing so would clearly be unsustainable in our position.
 
Will Absolute said:
Ideally, I'd like Fergie to conduct our transfer negotiations, with Gill assisting him. I'd like the emphasis to be on getting the player, not getting the player for the cheapest price, when that may involve a risk of losing him.
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Fair enough. How are our transfer dealing currently conducted? I've no idea personally, but it appears you do know. So tell all, I'm always happy to learn new things.
 
Will, all the retrospective feedback we have ever received from former players, even Giggs when he was 13, is that a major reason they sign for United is because of SAF's personal touch and genuine desire to persuade them to play for the club.

My understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that SAF romances the players, makes them feel wanted, etc and Gill manages the 'logistics' of the deal. Once a player, or his agent, establishes that said player would be interested in playing for United, Gill then has to work out whether a deal can be reached that is financially and commercially viable?

So, yes, we may be able to accuse him of being risk averse from a financial perspective and perhaps not envisaging the potential success a signing will bring, but I don't think his role is that of persuading the player they have a desire to actually play for us.

Sorry, another essay!
 
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