We can of course refuse to extend and just add another position to the long shopping list which doesn't have end to it.
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Yeah that's a point. 'Keepers seem to come in waves don't they? Some years there's loads of good goalkeepers on the market and looking for clubs. Sometimes you can't see any any decent 'keepers who are available and that's the case at the moment.
But why do we need to do this now he has contract till 2023 and Club has an option for further year as well.
If Club does this then this whole restructuring has been an exercise in futility because it would just prove nothing has changed.
De Gea is our best player from years, even though he has flaws and form dips, there was no consistent starter better than him.
Waiting for last year of his contract, especially under recent policy will cause another situation similar to Herrera & Pogba's, when we're happy with their deals expiring but sure as hell we can't find proper replacements on time. Signing Donny didn't create even smallest of alternative.
I simply don't trust this club will handle this correctly and what you're advocating for is what healthy football club would do... The problem is Manchester United is dysfunctional and we have absolutely no guarantee our recrutiment department will make correct decision in finding someone proper in De Gea's place on time.
The fact that the club is happy with an archaic touchline goalkeeper tells you all you need to know about its ability to plan for the future
I don't get the criticism. Obviously DDG had his flaws but he has been by far our best player this season. Why all the negativity? Yeah I agree he can't play out of the back. But so is AWB who controls a football with the same ability as an agile rhino. Oh and our 80Mil captain who's supposed to be excellent at playing out of the back. Even if we get a keeper that is capable of playing out the back, who is he going to pass to exactly? He is the least of our problems. People are basically saying hey let's replace our 8/10 keeper because he is not a 10 when the rest of our team are 4/10. Moaners will moan I guess.
De Gea had three seasons of terrible form before this one. He directly led to us being knocked out of the CL, not even making the CL spots, knocked out of domestic cups and the loss of plenty of points in the league. He's improved again this season, but even when his shot-stopping is good it's partly because his style of play results in him facing more shots than he should do.
If you think DDG's biggest issue is that he's shite at playing out from the back then you need to pay more attention.
475 with any luck.
As much as I love him, and despise attitudes and posts like the one just above this one, don't think he should be renewed. The agility will slow down sometime, the problems with crosses (unfixable at this point) will be magnified, and, if we get a proper manager, passing will become a major issue (though I'm still convinced it can be coached back)
1) It's not just his ability on the ball that's the issue, it's also his ability to sweep and ability to claim crosses. The only thing he's actually good at is shot-stopping, which he is excellent at.
2) The point is that most seasons he isn't really an 8/10 goalkeeper in terms of overall impact. He might be 9/10 in terms of shot-stopping (10/10 this season if you like) but he's about 2-4/10 in other key attributes, literally among the worst in the league, which drags his overall effectiveness way down. So it's more like complaining about us committing more years to a 6/10 goalkeeper. Or more specifically, a 6/10 goalkeeper whose strengths become less important and whose weaknesses become more important the better the team gets. It's not that hard to see why people would balk at that idea, even if there are other more pressing issues in the side.
3) Someone like AWB is indeed as much or more of a liability on the ball. But we're not talking about handing AWB a new contract. But absolutely, I'd want him replaced too due to his lack of ability on the ball.
Playing out from the back is the least of his issues. We have a goalkeeper who is the worst in the league at commanding his area and also the worst in the league at sweeping. He is very good at reaction saves no doubts about that but those stats are padded by the fact he faces far more shots than he should partly because he dosent sweep or command his area at all.
His non sweeping and non command of his area mean we face more attacks than we should meaning our defenders have to deal with more than they should and we have less time on the ball than we should. His non sweeping also means trying to hold a high line is very difficult meaning we cant really commit to a high press and dominate games high up the pitch like we want to.
Thats two massive problems he causes us before we even get onto his woeful distribution, he's uncomfortable with the ball at his feet and his long kicking isnt very long or accurate again meaning we come back under pressure from the oppo more than we should.
Think of it as having a lone striker, who snt very big or strong, has very little pace not much technique but is very good finisher in the box. The whole team has to work harder to create the chances for him and ultimately the whole team will suffer because of it. Occansinaly he is gonna produce an outstanding finish and be dubbed a hero for it but most of the time the team will suffer from essentially playing with one less player. Its basically the same issue with De Gea.
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Try standing behind him week in week out as he watches crosses go straight across him 4 yards out or refuses to leave his to collect balls under no pressure so the defenders have to deal with them by the time there is attacking pressure. He is fecking infuriating to watch and literally nothing will improve defensively until he leaves.
I watched Wolves yesterday with a mate and West Ham played 3 balls forward in the first half that Sa just came out and picked up, no hint of a chance or any danger whatsoever. All three would have been massive goal scoring opportunities against us and then we'd get people creaming themselves over him "saving us" despite the fact it was him who put us in trouble in the first place.
Even despite all that he's still our best player in last 8 years. It's United's inability to create healthy squad rivalry is why we still didn't challenge him properly so he can improve further under pressure.
While we are bringing up flaws, let's not forget the total sham of defensive lineup he has to protect him, bunch of lazy, minimum effort passengers who didn't step up to for so many years to challenge him in United Player of the year award.
The idea that a goalkeeper's ability to pick out passes etc is as important or more important than his ability to make saves and actually goal-keep is utterly delusional in my opinion, baffling to see this myth perpetuated by sections of our fanbase. I think it's a refusal for some to let the Henderson ship sail and have to admit that they were wrong.
DDG is comfortably in the top 5 GK's itw.
DDG is comfortably in the top 5 GK's itw.
He's not even top 5 in the Premier league let alone the world. And I will repeat it for those at the back that didn't hear its his all round goalkeeping ability that is his biggest problem, his poor distribution is a lesser problem but a problem non the less.
Who said it was as important as their ability to make saves? But it is extremely important nonetheless, particularly for top sides where it will take up a bigger portion of the goalkeeper's impact on the game. Teams like City and Liverpool haven't ended up with goalkeepers like Ederson and Alison by accident. It's a fact that goalkeeper distribution has become more important over the last decade plus because of tactical shifts at the highest level of the game. To pretend otherwise or to ignore the negative impact a keeper with poor distribution has would be sheer ignorance.
Beyond that though, De Gea is also bad at sweeping and claiming. So it's not about him being bad at distribution, it's about him only being good at shot-stopping.
Put it this way: name another top European side with a goalkeeper of De Gea's profile. I.E. Excellent shot-stopper but poor at distribution, sweeping and claiming. They haven't all opted for more well rounded goalkeepers by accident, or because of a Dean Henderson obsession.
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If you aspire to be a top club it's important. As important? No, else outfield players would be in goal but it's important. This isn't 1990's anymore.
Also De Gea's weaknesses are not just that. He can be inconsistent and prone to concentration lapses.
I agree with this.
It might not be prudent to make too many changes too soon. If the new head coach can first get the outfield players playing a proactive brand of football then sorting the keeper situation the following season might be a sensible way of going about things.
Erik ten Hag has been playing a 37 year old keeper (Pasveer), who imo wouldn't start for any club in the EPL. And he's been playing him in the UCL games. So there will be cheap options who would provide versatility in the role if the head coach desired. But if it's Pochettino, then I can see de Gea getting a contract extension.
I think the criticism about him not sweeping up balls in behind is just rolled out at every opportunity regardless of whether it's actually happening in a game or not. I've watched him come out to clear balls played in behind with some regularity this season.
His shot stopping is also not in doubt. He makes ridiculous saves look easy, to the point that he gets ridiculous criticism when he is unable to save one or two that go in, and people start claiming Hendo would have saved those.
However, his kicking has been bad throughout the whole season. When he first arrived at Utd, I remember watching his distribution and thinking wow, his kicking is spot on. But along the years it has no doubt deteriorated. I was surprised by how good Ben Foster's kicking was in comparison to De Gea's on Saturday, and surely it's something which can be worked on in training?? Come on David
His shot stopping is also not in doubt. He makes ridiculous saves look easy, to the point that he gets ridiculous criticism when he is unable to save one or two that go in, and people start claiming Hendo would have saved those.
However, his kicking has been bad throughout the whole season. When he first arrived at Utd, I remember watching his distribution and thinking wow, his kicking is spot on. But along the years it has no doubt deteriorated. I was surprised by how good Ben Foster's kicking was in comparison to De Gea's on Saturday, and surely it's something which can be worked on in training?? Come on David
The fact that he occassionally does this does not hide the fact that generally he is scared to leave his box and other teams know this. The best modern keepers play like sweepers. He always looks like one step away from a disaster when the ball is at his feet. His lack of dominance of the penalty area, even his own 6 yard box, is embarrassing. I dont feel we should renew, as his reflexes show he becomes more of a problem. With Maguire in front of him we will always be exposed.
No he's not.
Saving is only one part of the job and in reality only constitutes a tiny fraction of the goalkeepers involvement during the game. The rest of what he doesn't do is equally as important to the team as a whole. Every other goalkeeper in the legaue is capable of it. It's got nothing to do with being a modern keeper either as sweeping, claiming high balls have always been part of the game. He's not good enough at either. The main aspect of goalkeeping that has changed is having to be comfortable on the ball, receiving and passing it around at the back. He's woeful at it for the level he's supposed to be at.
Peter Schmeichel explains the role for Man Utd perfectly here, he describes Ben Foster, but it could easily be DDG he's talking about.
I understand that a lot of fans are happy with De Gea this season because he has made some good saves.
My issue with him is that he causes the team a lot of problems. His commanding of his area and his distribution are the problems.
I have no doubt that there will be goals we have conceded this season that can be traced back to De Gea - whether it is him refusing to collect a cross that results in a defender clearing for a needless corner or throw-in; or whether his distribution goes straight to the opposition - and they go onto score in that set of play or the next.
The best teams in the league are City, Liverpool and Chelsea.
Would City swap Ederson for De Gea? No they wouldn't.
Would Liverpool swap Alisson for De Gea? No they wouldn't.
Would Chelsea swap Mendy for De Gea? No they wouldn't.
Based on this argument alone, it shows that we have the 4th best keeper in the league.
We won't be winning anything any time soon with De Gea as our goalkeeper.
My issue with him is that he causes the team a lot of problems. His commanding of his area and his distribution are the problems.
I have no doubt that there will be goals we have conceded this season that can be traced back to De Gea - whether it is him refusing to collect a cross that results in a defender clearing for a needless corner or throw-in; or whether his distribution goes straight to the opposition - and they go onto score in that set of play or the next.
The best teams in the league are City, Liverpool and Chelsea.
Would City swap Ederson for De Gea? No they wouldn't.
Would Liverpool swap Alisson for De Gea? No they wouldn't.
Would Chelsea swap Mendy for De Gea? No they wouldn't.
Based on this argument alone, it shows that we have the 4th best keeper in the league.
We won't be winning anything any time soon with De Gea as our goalkeeper.
The club is just happy to have a decent GK and a 'big' name staying. They dont think about issues in 2 or 3 years. Always about now
Great shot stopper but a wimp coming off his line and dealing with easy situations. Also his distribution has regressed horribly.
Admittedly we've made some poor signings in defence in the 11 years De Gea has been here, however it's very very unlikely that every single defender he's played with has been incompetent.
Surely even De Gea's biggest fan would have to consider the possibility that his own flaws, in particular his reluctance to command the area and his poor distribution, is a massive factor why every single defender he's played with for Utd has struggled, he's clearly the common denominator.
However, even if we accept this huge coincidence that all our defenders are hopeless, how do you explain the same thing happening with Spain?
Most of the time he was Spain's number one, he played with Sergio Ramos and Gerard Pique in front of him (2 of the world's best at the time) and they also struggled and eventually he was dropped.
In that general period, Spain went from being the dominant force in international football before De Gea was their keeper, to being awful and getting dumped out of the World Cup at the group stages, when he was their number one.
Now they've dropped him they look like one of the world's best teams again.
Side note, in that 2018 world cup, De Gea produced the worst goal-keeping performance at any world cup for 52 years:
https://talksport.com/football/393680/manchester-united-david-de-gea-world-cup-2018/
Spain's response was to drop him.
Our response was to make him the highest paid keeper in the world.
For anyone wondering why we're currently a mid-table club, then look no further than that.
He and Lindelof are the only two players I can think of who, with admittedly some massive generosity given the season we've had, could be considered for our player of the year award. Wouldn't be surprised if he won it yet again.
Anyone want to put forward another potential winner?
Anyone want to put forward another potential winner?
Maybe not the most famous choice, but think that Mc Tominay is having a good season (for his standards)
Would Wolves swap for De Gea? Would Villa swap for De Gea? Would even Arsenal or Brighton swap for De Gea given how they play?
There is only really West Ham & maybe Spurs in the top part of the league who'd probably take De Gea over their goalkeeper and yet we've got fans who think he's top 5 in the world
Whoever wins this season will be the best of a very bad bunch- a bit like that season Luke Shaw won it and the 'highlight' video consisted of a minute long reel of him doing nothing much at all
Couldn't care less about Spain, but it's more and more evident it's down to poor coaching on United's part. Interesting how in 2013 he was chosen in Premier League's Team of the Year despite total lack of experience in that time, when he had solid manager who knew how to motivate him and eliminate most of his flaws.
United being mid-table team because of De Gea gotta be one of the weakest thesis I've read on this forum.
I support Manchester United and Republic of Ireland, I couldn't care less about Spain either, that's not the point.
The question was, if our consistently poor defensive record in the 11 years De Gea has been here is all down to us having poor defenders then how do you explain what happened when he was Spain's number one goalkeeper?
Also, the year he won the title with us, we still conceded a lot of goals, with Rio and Vidic playing (admittedly in their latter years).
We didnt win the title because of De Gea or a solid defence, we won it because we outscored teams and won games, in spite of having a pretty poor defensive record.
Yes, he absolutely improved in that second season with us, but that wouldn't have been hard compared to how bad he was in his first season here.
The infuriating thing here is that, he hasn't improved at all with those things he was criticicsed for in his first season, the main one being that he couldn't handle the physicality of the premier league.
11 years later and he still can't, but our fans he's think he's worth £375,000 a week because he makes the odd reflex save.
As I said, any wonder we're a mid table club.
Since you're so keen on judging De Gea and tear down his £375,000 contract, I wonder how you judge majority of players who didn't do half of things De Gea did in his time, because going by that logic we should terminate pretty much everyone's contract and nobody's worth their money to be Man United player.
Looks like Mourinho was smarter than everyone by designating Romero to Europa League and that decision not only helped De Gea to relieve him from pressure but also sparked success by winning a tournament in which Romero was our coolest player.
If people want to sell our main keeper, I have no problem with that, even though he's Fergie's soldier and he proved to SAF he's worthy despite lack of experience in that time. It's just knowing how club is working at the moment, I don't trust we'll make a correct decision.
Selling a player is always easier than finding genuinely better one who'll fit and that is surely not De Gea's fault, that nobody can make this team working properly because in the past it worked like a charm and De Gea was integral part of it.
Here's a question for you: who's a solid replacement for him in your eyes?
That Stretford Paddock account has put his stats up on a video today, and its actually fecking frightening how bad he is at everything apart from shot stopping. He's the top shot stopper in the league and he's a second worst goalkeeper for defensive actions outside the box. He's the second least at coming off his line and only stopped 2% of the crosses he's stopped, one of the worst in Europe. He's got the worst percentage of long passing by any goalkeeper. His pass completion is 74%, which for a keeper who does feck all with his feet is shocking. His accurate forward passing percentage is the 6th worst for any keepr who has played more than 20 Premier League games. His expected goal buildup is lower than Ben Foster and Fabianski.
I get there's bigger fish to fry, but there's a big problem with De Gea when it comes to any metric that isnt being a Spider Man keeper.
I get there's bigger fish to fry, but there's a big problem with De Gea when it comes to any metric that isnt being a Spider Man keeper.
That's shocking.
As I posted the other day, making saves constitutes only a tiny fraction of the goalkeepers involvement in the game, I would say probably less than a minute even during a busy game.
Everything else that he doesn't do is just as importantto the team as a whole.
Just watched and reinforced what I believe and have posted already. VDS would have shite YouTube highlights reel compared to DDG but he was fundamentally sound is all aspects of goalkeeping.
The video in question. I really don't see how people think his shot stopping makes up for his shortfalls in the other aspects of goalkeeping. It's not like they're slight shortfalls either. He ranks at the bottom in virtually every category related to ball playing and sweeping.
Basically everything a few people in here have been saying for a long time.
I don't think at this stage he can be coached into becoming good enough at those aspects where he is lacking.
I know this isn't related to performance somewhat, but do you reckon he'll get a testimonial?
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