[hmchan]

It probably was but read the rest of my post! That clip you showed is probably a good example of what I'm trying to say. It was a fairly high temp training session and he's up for it, so he's performing well.

During the regular season, I fear he's just not getting anything from training, from his team mates or the manager. It's like he just needs a massive slap on his back before the game to wake him up.

His calmness when our goal was geting peppered was quality but now it's like a liability. He's too meek and subdued. There's no fire or quiet intensity. It's going through the emotions.

Why is he not getting drills to come off his line, or getting yelled at by our club captain etc? All these factors are enabling his current form.

There are plenty of factors enabling de Gea's decline:

• Awarding him a ridiculous contract despite his poor performance at the end of laat season.
• Not dropping him at least for a few games given those repeated howlers, which every manager would have done.
• Fanboys making up excuses for his terrible performance, and bringing up those irrelevant great saves years ago all the time.

 

[Jibbs]

Where is he going? Only PSG can probably pay those wages.

He is about to do with us what Bale has done with Madrid. Horror of horrors... we won't even drop him unlike Madrid and he will continue to make those howlers. He is done at united. He will only be able to revive his career if he moves away from here but why would he when he is making 375k a week.

 

[Jibbs]

There are plenty of factors enabling de Gea's decline:

• Awarding him a ridiculous contract despite his poor performance at the end of laat season.
• Not dropping him at least for a few games given those repeated howlers, which every manager would have done.
• Fanboys making up excuses for his terrible performance, and bringing up those irrelevant great saves years ago all the time.

Awarding him this ridiculous contract alone is a sackable offence. A manager who can't see that a declining keeper is not worth to be made one of the highest earners in football, is not worthy of running the show, no matter how big a legend he has been as a player.

 

[hmchan]

Awarding him this ridiculous contract alone is a sackable offence. A manager who can't see that a declining keeper is not worth to be made one of the highest earners in football, is not worthy of running the show, no matter how big a legend he has been as a player.

If the decision was made by Mourinho, many more questions and criticisms would have arisen.

 

[izec]

People making excuses are pathetic. Imagine how good we would be with a proper GK. I agree with Roy, replace the GK if he isnt good enough. What is the big deal? People want to replace every player, even squad players, but for De Gea, other rules apply. I am tired of this bullshit on here.

We upgraded our CB and we improved. Upgrade the fecking GK and we will improve us well

Have you guys too many De Gea shirts in your closet? Too many posters on the wall that you are too lazy to take down? Sucked his cock many times? Logic doesnt apply here. Do you all need another shit season from him? For some, some players are bigger than the club, and then they complain about other players. United over any player, he doesnt perform, replace him. We have an academy player ready to step in. Easiest decision ever.

 

[mu4c_20le]

There are plenty of factors enabling de Gea's decline:

• Awarding him a ridiculous contract despite his poor performance at the end of laat season.
• Not dropping him at least for a few games given those repeated howlers, which every manager would have done.
• Fanboys making up excuses for his terrible performance, and bringing up those irrelevant great saves years ago all the time.

Fanboys making up excuses and bringing up the past? Does he read the forums? Stupid post

 

[BenitoSTARR]

David De Gea finishes the season with the second highest %Save rate in the PL 73.3%

 

[Classical Mechanic]

David De Gea finishes the season with the second highest %Save rate in the PL 73.3%

The reason why stats like these are being superceded is because they tell us far too little. A goalkeeper may have a save percentage of 60% due to facing a lot of big chances and hard shots; shots that they can not reasonably be expected to save more often than not when judged against the average. Even with a low save percentage a goalkeeper can be outperforming their PSxG so are in fact performing at a high level. On the other hand, a goalkeeper with a high save % may have benefited from a solid defence and team shape restricting opposition attackers to low probability and easier to save chances.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

The reason why stats like these are being superceded is because they tell us far too little. A goalkeeper may have a save percentage of 60% due to facing a lot of big chances and hard shots; shots that they can not reasonably be expected to save more often than not when judged against the average. Even with a low save percentage a goalkeeper can be outperforming their PSxG so are in fact performing at a high level. On the other hand, a goalkeeper with a high save % may have benefited from a solid defence and team shape restricting opposition attackers to low probability and easier to save chances.

I know I just thought it worth knowing that he’s up there.

I honestly think how we work as a unit is just as important as individuals ability and I think we are working well as that unit.

The reality is with our defence being good he’s coping better than most other GKs in this regard.

I’d rather keep and stick with him while we’re managing this level of defensive solidarity

 

[hmchan]

Fanboys making up excuses and bringing up the past? Does he read the forums? Stupid post

If the majority of fans reaches a concensus and feels that de Gea has to be dropped, questions will be asked against him and Ole. The media will write stories about this (like how Rooney was treated) and they will feel a lot more pressure from the public opinion. Sadly, almost 80% of fans were still supporting him despite his repeated howlers until his recent mistake against Chelsea.

 

[El Zoido]

David De Gea finishes the season with the second highest %Save rate in the PL 73.3%

Yet he made many howlers that cause us to lose games. This is why stats can be misleading.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Yet he made many howlers that cause us to lose games. This is why stats can be misleading.

how many is many?

I can only think of the Everton and Chelsea game as an exceptional error?

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Yet he made many howlers that cause us to lose games. This is why stats can be misleading.

@El Zoido He’s cost us 6 points this season. Unless you can show me something to suggest otherwise?

Question is what goalkeeper hasn’t made mistakes?

Who do you think is a better alternative?

 

[El Zoido]

how many is many?

I can only think of the Everton and Chelsea game as an exceptional error?

One against Palace in the last minute when we lost 2-1. Also I think against Watford? Then of course the ones at the back end of last season when we missed top four.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Nuanced view here but yeah De Gea hasn’t had the best season and of course he’s made mistakes but I just don’t see him as being a liability more than he’s been useful.

In an ideal world wed have De Gea’s shot stopping with Nick Popes cross collection and the distribution of Alisson or Ederson but no such GK exists so short of buying another GK I don’t see a reason to get rid.

Henderson is not a better keeper yet (he’s had a better season in a lower pressure environment) and has ended the season making more mistakes than De Gea.

 

[Cassidy]

One against Palace in the last minute when we lost 2-1. Also I think against Watford? Then of course the ones at the back end of last season when we missed top four.

Spurs this season also

 

[hmchan]

David De Gea finishes the season with the second highest %Save rate in the PL 73.3%

Another attempt after the fake xGA stats?
1. Lloris 79.6%
2. Leno 77.6%
3. Henderson 75.2%
4. Schmeichel 73.8%
5. de Gea 73.6%
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepers/Premier-League-Stats

 

[Cassidy]

Nuanced view here but yeah De Gea hasn’t had the best season and of course he’s made mistakes but I just don’t see him as being a liability more than he’s been useful.

In an ideal world wed have De Gea’s shot stopping with Nick Popes cross collection and the distribution of Alisson or Ederson but no such GK exists so short of buying another GK I don’t see a reason to get rid.

Henderson is not a better keeper yet (he’s had a better season in a lower pressure environment) and has ended the season making more mistakes than De Gea.

De Gea hinders our ability to defend set pieces and has regressed considerably in his distribution
That is not to say Henderson is better but DDG does hinder us as a team. So when his shot stopping starts to show cracks then you have to question whether his weaknesses are worth it.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Spurs this season also

Not having the Spurs one as an error, it was so close and hit with such power you don't EXPECT a goalkeeper to save it, but he could have done better.

No goalkeeper saves every shot, even the golden boy Henderson has had plenty of wobbles too over the season.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I know I just thought it worth knowing that he’s up there.

I honestly think how we work as a unit is just as important as individuals ability and I think we are working well as that unit.

The reality is with our defence being good he’s coping better than most other GKs in this regard.

I’d rather keep and stick with him while we’re managing this level of defensive solidarity

There's no evidence that our defence is conceding too many good chances though. Our xGA as a team is among the very best in the league. One area that is a worry is conceding through set-pieces as we're average in the league at that. DDG is part of the problem there, however.

 

[Cassidy]

Not having the Spurs one as an error, it was so close and hit with such power you don't EXPECT a goalkeeper to save it, but he could have done better.

No goalkeeper saves every shot, even the golden boy Henderson has had plenty of wobbles too over the season.

Its an error in my opinion, its off his hands into the net. Its a mistake from him

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Another attempt after the fake xGA stats?
1. Lloris 79.6%
2. Leno 77.6%
3. Henderson 75.2%
4. Schmeichel 73.8%
5. de Gea 73.6%
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepers/Premier-League-Stats

I reported the Sky Sports stats how are they fake?

Also I am not talking about XGA I was merely commenting on the save % of the keeper.

XGA has been discussed to death on here and it appears nobody is willing to look beyond it.

De Gea hinders our ability to defend set pieces and has regressed considerably in his distribution
That is not to say Henderson is better but DDG does hinder us as a team. So when his shot stopping starts to show cracks then you have to question whether his weaknesses are worth it.

I’d agree on set pieces I’d disagree on distribution I think what has changed is we don’t have Lukaku and Fellaini on the end of his kicks.

I agree we should question is he worth it and I think he’s worth keeping for now until a more obvious candidate emerges.

 

[Cassidy]

I reported the Sky Sports stats how are they fake?

Also I am not talking about XGA I was merely commenting on the save % of the keeper.

XGA has been discussed to death on here and it appears nobody is willing to look beyond it.

I’d agree on set pieces I’d disagree on distribution I think what has changed is we don’t have Lukaku and Fellaini on the end of his kicks.

I agree we should question is he worth it and I think he’s worth keeping for now until a more obvious candidate emerges.

I meant his short passing game and decision making (plenty of silly passes he has played which had lead to us conceding goals, and some of them not conceding but still mistakes) Not his long passing which again isn't great anyway

 

[BenitoSTARR]

There's no evidence that our defence is conceding too many good chances though. Our xGA as a team is among the very best in the league. One area that is a worry is conceding through set-pieces as we're average in the league at that. DDG is part of the problem there, however.

So doesn’t that show that as a unit they are working well? De Gea as much as some may hate to admit is part of that unit in organisation.

Absolutely our set pieces are a real issue De Gea is woefully sub par at those. Would we rather a Nick Pope signing to fix that issue though?

 

[Adam-Utd]

Its an error in my opinion, its off his hands into the net. Its a mistake from him

Not with the power behind it. He only just gets his hands in position and cant get his body behind them to reinforce himself. It wasn't impossible to save but it's not fair to say you'd save it 9/10 times. That can't be labelled as an error like the Mount goal.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I meant his short passing game and decision making (plenty of silly passes he has played which had lead to us conceding goals) Not his long passing which again isn't great anyway

I’d disagree here. Far “better” distributors have made much more high profile mistakes playing out from the back than De Gea.

Alisson and Ederson have both done this so compared to “better” keepers he’s not costing us anything more.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Not having the Spurs one as an error, it was so close and hit with such power you don't EXPECT a goalkeeper to save it, but he could have done better.

No goalkeeper saves every shot, even the golden boy Henderson has had plenty of wobbles too over the season.

De Gea's problem is that we've been treated to 3 or 4 seasons of him routinely pulling off incredible saves. So when you have a goal like the Spurs game, or King's goal for Bournemouth, or Giroud's goal for Chelsea... you can't help but think about all the times you've seen De Gea save shots like that.

 

[hmchan]

I reported the Sky Sports stats how are they fake?

Also I am not talking about XGA I was merely commenting on the save % of the keeper.

XGA has been discussed to death on here and it appears nobody is willing to look beyond it.

I’d agree on set pieces I’d disagree on distribution I think what has changed is we don’t have Lukaku and Fellaini on the end of his kicks.

I agree we should question is he worth it and I think he’s worth keeping for now until a more obvious candidate emerges.

So what's your comment on this?

 

[BenitoSTARR]

So what's your comment on this?

My comment is Dean Henderson has had a very good season and of course a better one than De Gea this season based on xGA and save stats metrics. I’ve never once argued he hasn’t?

I’ve said numerous times I have high hopes for Henderson however I do not believe he is ready to take over from De Gea right away. He makes far too many mistakes that I know fans on here would not tolerate having seen the treatment of De Gea so it is better he either has a loan back to Sheffield or if he’s serious about being number 1 here competes with De Gea.

In those scenarios De Gea could have an amazing season keeping Henderson at bay if at the club. Or if De Gea becomes a great concern Henderson can step in.

Equally if Henderson fails to maintain a high performance level we have more context to judge him in top flight football before disrupting what has been a solid defensive unit for the season.

I believe we must consider the impact a young GK has on organisation and how it will disrupt already established relationships with the back 5.

It’s possible to be a fan of both Henderson and De Gea of which I am.

 

[Cassidy]

Not with the power behind it. He only just gets his hands in position and cant get his body behind them to reinforce himself. It wasn't impossible to save but it's not fair to say you'd save it 9/10 times. That can't be labelled as an error like the Mount goal.

The shot it straight at him, he attempts to fist the ball away but he made an error with the connection which is why it ended up in the back of the net. Anyway its opinions, I do think its fair to say that once gets saved 9/10 by top keepers when the shot is straight at them.

 

[Cassidy]

I’d disagree here. Far “better” distributors have made much more high profile mistakes playing out from the back than De Gea.

Alisson and Ederson have both done this so compared to “better” keepers he’s not costing us anything more.

He is since their distribution is far superior to his, Ederson in particular which means they don't need a Matic or Pogba coming to the edge of the 12 yard box everytime to receive the ball and start attacks. You will always notice they don't need a big man uptop to negate that.

 

[Adam-Utd]

De Gea's problem is that we've been treated to 3 or 4 seasons of him routinely pulling off incredible saves. So when you have a goal like the Spurs game, or King's goal for Bournemouth, or Giroud's goal for Chelsea... you can't help but think about all the times you've seen De Gea save shots like that.

Yeah I think that's it. 2/3 years ago David might have saved it, it's often tricky when a shot is hit close to a goalkeeper you think they should do better, but just watch the replay at full speed. It's hit so bloody fast you just can't react in time, by the time he moves his hands to where he thinks it's going it's already bouncing off him into the net. Those sort of shots can't really be classed as an error for me, it's just plus marks if you manage to get to it.

Compare it to the Mount shot where he had plenty of time to adjust and get behind it, or the silly kick out at Everton, now that's a proper error.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

He is since their distribution is far superior to his, Ederson in particular which means they don't need a Matic or Pogba coming to the edge of the 12 yard box everytime to receive the ball and start attacks. You will always notice they don't need a big man uptop to negate that.

What of their mistakes though that have cost goals as a result of poor distribution. I believe they’ve made more than De Gea in that regard?

I honestly think this forum is very good at pointing out the flaws in our own players without recognising that other teams players have similar or worse ones at the same time. Which is to be forgiven as it is impossible to watch every team but it should be a discussion.

 

[padzilla]

Why can't we just try dropping De Gea for a period to see if it gives him a kick up the backside to improve? Why do we need to immediately replace him? Remember when he first came and he was awful at the start and was dropped for Lindegaard but came back to be the best keeper in the PL and then the world for years to come?

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Yeah I think that's it. 2/3 years ago David might have saved it, it's often tricky when a shot is hit close to a goalkeeper you think they should do better, but just watch the replay at full speed. It's hit so bloody fast you just can't react in time, by the time he moves his hands to where he thinks it's going it's already bouncing off him into the net. Those sort of shots can't really be classed as an error for me, it's just plus marks if you manage to get to it.

Compare it to the Mount shot where he had plenty of time to adjust and get behind it, or the silly kick out at Everton, now that's a proper error.

Victim of his own success.

What I will find incredibly interesting is how Henderson responds to his success at Sheffield. If he can put in another good season then we should be seriously thinking about giving him a shot.

I suspect however he’ll have an average season. And that’s fine.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Why can't we just try dropping De Gea for a period to see if it gives him a kick up the backside to improve? Why do we need to immediately replace him? Remember when he first came and he was awful at the start and was dropped for Lindegaard but came back to be the best keeper in the PL and then the world for years to come?

Look at the discussion around Kepa at the moment having been dropped for the last game.

Dropping De Gea as a youngster is not the same as dropping De Gea now. Surely you understand why?

I believe dropping De Gea is committing to selling him.

 

[Cassidy]

What of their mistakes though that have cost goals as a result of poor distribution. I believe they’ve made more than De Gea in that regard?

I honestly think this forum is very good at pointing out the flaws in our own players without recognising that other teams players have similar or worse ones at the same time. Which is to be forgiven as it is impossible to watch every team but it should be a discussion.

I'm not sure, but you're missing the point here. The mistakes there, are because they take some risks which has obvious benefits due to their good distribution, they are better at beating the press and especially at City Ederson is a key part of that with his passing.
If DDG mistakes also came with obvious benefits due to great distribution then it would be a positive not a negative. Right now it's a flaw and regression in his game since actually his distribution although not elite was pretty good before.

What you are calling similar or worse, its blatantly missing the actual point about what it means to have a keeper with great distribution. The point wasn't that other keepers don't make mistakes, the point is that we are having to have our creative CMS drop far too deep to get the ball and we struggle badly against the press because of it. DDG isn't the only flaw there the CBs are also and the DM but I won't get into that. However it clearly part of his game that has regressed to a point where its a negative and not a positive to the team

 

[Cassidy]

Why can't we just try dropping De Gea for a period to see if it gives him a kick up the backside to improve? Why do we need to immediately replace him? Remember when he first came and he was awful at the start and was dropped for Lindegaard but came back to be the best keeper in the PL and then the world for years to come?

In all honestly because long term we actually need a different type of keeper, and over time DDG has shown he isn't going to develop those parts of his game.

Namely:
Distribution
Command of Area

We need to start thinking about his succession plan

 

[Adam-Utd]

Victim of his own success.

What I will find incredibly interesting is how Henderson responds to his success at Sheffield. If he can put in another good season then we should be seriously thinking about giving him a shot.

I suspect however he’ll have an average season. And that’s fine.

Yep I do think we need to be careful and maybe a little cut throat.

I love DDG and what he's done for the club, but his form is on a worrying downwards slope. If this keeps on then we have no choice but to go for the younger option in Henderson, but we have to make sure he's ready to take over 100%, as I don't think the relationship will recover once we do drop him.

 

[padzilla]

Look at the discussion around Kepa at the moment having been dropped for the last game.

Dropping De Gea as a youngster is not the same as dropping De Gea now. Surely you understand why?

I believe dropping De Gea is committing to selling him.

There's no way anyone would buy him on the wages he is on with us and Ole will be under pressure to either get rid of him or play him when he's on silly money. We've made a rod for our own back once again with rewarding players with lucrative long-term contracts when they are on the wane.