David de Gea | 2011-14 Performances

[SharkyMcShark]

David de Gea's potential does not disguise his lack of experience
Should Manchester United be chasing for the league title with a goalkeeper still learning his craft?


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Comments (35)

Daniel Taylor
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 3 January 2012 18.16 GMT
Article history

David De Gea has probably not been helped by the absence of a consistent back four at Manchester United. Photograph: Paul Thomas/Action Images
The overwhelming sense when debating Manchester United's goalkeeping issue, and specifically weighing up the long-term benefits but short-term losses of entrusting a talented but still raw 21-year-old, has to be one of déjà vu. We have been here already this season, after all, and the arguments became so blurred at the time all that can be said for certain is that the champions were entitled to hope we would not have to revisit the subject so quickly.

It is of whether they should continue with David de Gea in goal when it is almost inevitable, at this point in a career of otherwise great promise, that there will be further mistakes along the way, or whether they bow to the theory that a team going for the title, when every goal and every point might be vital, is not the place for a goalkeeper to be learning on the spot.

The last time this issue was raised Ferguson gritted his teeth, decided against taking the Spaniard out of the team in favour of Anders Lindegaard and most of autumn passed amid the sense that United's manager had negotiated a difficult situation with impeccable judgment.

Opposition players began to realise that peppering De Gea with hopeful, long-distance shots was now a futile exercise. The man Jamie Redknapp said needed "to grow into his kit", after a particularly harrowing league debut at West Bromwich Albion, went to the Britannia Stadium in Stoke and played as though affronted by the suggestion he was a boy among men.

A few weeks later, he turned in a performance at Anfield with all the calmness of a bomb-disposal expert, as if nobody had bothered educating him about what it meant to be beneath the Kop as a Manchester United player. Afterwards the Liverpool manager, Kenny Dalglish, shook his head ruefully and exclaimed: "I thought the press said the boy was struggling."

The ability to make reflex saves, distribute the ball quickly and accurately, and understand the angles of the penalty box is clearly in place, so we should proceed cautiously against the knee-jerk reaction in light of De Gea's recent mistakes, and not lose sight of the fact United undoubtedly knew when they recruited him from Atletico Madrid that it was simply unfeasible to assume the replacement of Edwin van der Sar would pass seamlessly.

Yet the De Gea or Lindegaard issue has resurfaced for legitimate reasons going into Wednesday's match at Newcastle United and this is not, as Ferguson put it in September, the agenda of a media "desperate for the boy to fail". Nobody in the press box invented the mistakes against Benfica and Basel that played a part in United's elimination from the Champions League. It was not a careless sub-editor who flapped at the cross for Blackburn's decisive goal at Old Trafford on New Year's Eve.

The cold, harsh reality is simply that De Gea has let in six goals where the blame, or a significant proportion of it, could be attached to him. At least three more have arrived when the culpability is less obvious but his involvement could still be questioned. That's nine in total, from 19 appearances, and even if mitigating circumstances can be presented in some cases it is still clearly too many when there are five months of the season still to play.

All this has to be balanced by the fact that De Gea has clearly improved, brilliantly sometimes, since that ordeal at The Hawthorns, when he allowed a soft shot to squeeze under his body and it was tempting to watch him throughout the rest of the match through your fingers. Yet De Gea's luck has run out lately. At the start of the season, against West Brom and Manchester City in the Community Shield, his mistakes did not prevent United winning. More recently, against Benfica, Basel and Blackburn, the results have had significant ramifications.

De Gea's occasional vulnerabilities are, of course, probably only inevitable for a goalkeeper who was 20 when he signed his £18.5m transfer in June and, to give him his due, he has probably not been helped by the absence of a consistent back four. In fact, there have been only two occasions in his first six months at the club when he has played behind the same quartet from one game to the next. Equally, a goalkeeper tends to likes consistency whereas Ferguson has been operating a rotation policy not just involving De Gea and Lindegaard but also the 21-year-old Ben Amos. After starting the first five matches of the season, there have been only two occasions when De Gea has been selected in three successive games.

Lindegaard has started five league games so far and not conceded a goal. The Dane is seven years older than De Gea and has a greater penalty-box presence. He does not lack confidence and it has been evident since the pre-season tour of the United States that he is determined to establish himself more prominently in Ferguson's thinking.

Signed from Aalesund for £3.5m last January, he has conceded an average of 0.14 goals a game. De Gea is significantly higher, at 1.37, and in all competitions has only a 74% ratio of saving shots compared with 95% for his rival. Lindegaard has a 100% catching ratio compared with De Gea's 94%. The counter-argument is that the younger man has generally been given the more difficult assignments, whereas Lindegaard has never been put against a top-six opponent.

It is a curiosity, given that Ferguson, in the days of Van der Sar, would regularly speak of his belief that the key factor for a successful goalkeeper was experience. De Gea's potential is clear but, with a soft goal conceded almost every two games, this is an education that does not come without risk.

Dodgy keeper

Manchester City (n) 7 Aug

United won the Community Shield, but De Gea marred his debut as he let Edin Dzeko's shot under his body

West Bromwich Albion (a) 14 Aug

Shane Long's tame drive somehow slipped through De Gea's grasp in United's 2-1 victory

Arsenal (h) 28 Aug

De Gea saved a penalty from Robin van Persie in United's 8-2 win, but Theo Walcott's effort went through his legs

Benfica (h) 22 Nov

A poor clearance from De Gea led to Pablo Aimar scoring the Portuguese side's equaliser in a 2-2 draw

FC Basel (a) 7 Dec

De Gea was at fault for Marco Streller's opener as United crashed out of the Champions League after a 2-1 defeat

Blackburn Rovers (h) 31 Dec

After United had fought back from 2-0 down, De Gea's flap at a corner gifted Grant Hanley the visitors' late winner

David de Gea's potential does not disguise his lack of experience | Daniel Taylor | Football | The Guardian

Thought this was quite a good piece on the issue from Daniel Taylor.

 

[Snow]

Is letting a goal through your legs a mistake? It's one of the best ways to score 1v1 if you're confident enough to hit between them. I'm sorry but I'm not counting that one. That's clutching straws.

Nothing important or clever he says there. It's just a journo version on what's been said here.

 

[Agent Red]

It might have been a speculative statement, how would I know though? All I read is what you wrote.

Well I would have expected you to assume it. Obviously I don't have any back of the scenes knowledge to any kind of comment about player's personalities by someone who doesn't know them I would assume to be speculative.

Anyway, you’re basing him not being self assured on the way he interacts with his team mates when he makes a good save? Honestly, I don’t see how you can draw any conclusions whatsoever from that. Keepers for every team in the league celebrate when they save a penalty, or make a decent stop, so De Gea’s no different. Plus, he’s new at the club and has been receiving mass criticism in the press, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the dressing room was rallied around him in support.

Well I didn't promise stalwart evidence, it's why I didn't really want to get drawn into some massive thing about it, because it's not based on a lot and I wasn't really trying to start a debate around it. To me he looks like someone that plays better when he feels like he's got the confidence of the team and the crowd behind him, normally on the back of a good performance or a good stop. Not all keepers do celebrate with their defenders, Al-Habsi made some cracking saves a few games ago and whilst his celebration was quite a loud one, it was also quite independent and he was waving his defenders away.

Also, to provide a comparison to other United players, Valencia shows very little emotion when he scores or assists, he offers little interaction with his team mates and certainly doesn’t ‘feed off the personal reactions’ of other players. In contrast, Hernandez seems to relish it. But I’d consider Hernandez a much more confident player than Valencia, which is the complete opposite of your conclusion, applying that logic.

Well I wouldn't agree with that conclusion, I think Valencia comes across as a confident player. I don't think he's particularly prone to getting in a rut. Sometime he has an off game but then he'll often follow that up with a blinder, I don't think he's a confidence player. We can't really tell with Hernandez because even when he's off the boil, the nature of his game means that he's rarely on a goal drought even if he's not on form, therefore we can't really tell what he'd be like when under real pressure yet.

I’m still surprised that reasoning’s enough to override the presumption that he’s perfectly self assured, which comes naturally when you look at his career to date. As I said before, he’s been starting for one of the biggest teams in the world at age 20, in a position which normally requires experience. You don’t succeed to that extent without self belief, it seems strange to suggest otherwise.

I disagree. You can have self belief and also be insecure, it's not necessarily related to ability, it's more of a personality thing. I suppose the key example I'd use is Kevin Pietersen. He's known for his arrogance and is clearly a very able player, yet he is very much a confidence player and his captains have all spoken about how likes reassurance from his teammates and plays better when feeling confident. I don't know if De Gea is like this or not, but it could be the case, and I was only meaning to put the idea forward as a possibility rather than a certainty.

In addition the way he’s conducted himself in coming back from early mistakes and ignored the widespread criticism in the press, which seemed to actually spur him on, backs up this view. Finally, the fact that SAF has a history of protecting young players and only playing them when they’re mentally ready, shows that Fergie thinks there’s nothing wrong with his confidence, otherwise he wouldn’t have played, particularly when there is an able substitute in Lindegaard. I agree we should leave this though, it's going in circles.

I think Foster was also a confidence player, you could see him looking nervy when under pressure and he had a tendency to make mistakes when this happened. You could tell his back line didn't have complete confidence in him and he never had the same command as VDS, but Fergie gave him many chances, he wasn't protected. We've bleed lots of young players that have some way to go to building up the mental side of the game.

Nope, it’s not outlandish to say he's someone that plays better on the back of good performances, that isn’t what you said though, and it’s not what I asked you about. We’ve been through this.

It is a part of what I was saying, if that wasn't clear in the initial post I certainly feel I have clarified it since then.

As for the training thing, not to be pedantic but in a conversation about De Gea’s confidence you said, ‘the nerves of starting in a new league and looking a bit unsure in front of an alien team... continued for a few games. Obviously he moved on from this after a few weeks, but I think that's because it would have been worked on seriously behind the scenes’. That reads as though you were on about some sort of confidence coaching, it’s pretty clear.

I don't think the natural conclusion is to assume I was talking about confidence coaching. 'Behind the scenes' refers to pretty much anything we don't see in a game, including anything that goes on in training. That's what I meant.

But regardless, it doesn’t hold up if you’re talking about goalkeeper coaching anyway. You think his subsequent performances were better than his early ones, due to the benefits of coaching for dealing with crosses etc. Well, how does that explain Blackburn then, in which he made mistakes coming for crosses? Surely the benefit of continued training would have made these mistakes obsolete by now? What about Basel away, where he failed to deal with the cross for their first goal? It’s obvious his better games weren’t down to training, otherwise the good games would be constant. Like I said before, I think your doing him a disservice, he played well because he’s a great keeper. His improvements after West Brom weren’t down to the coaching staff, they were down to De Gea, the mistakes in the first two games weren’t a reflection on his true ability, they were just quite simply mistakes, which are to be expected off all young players.

Because he was rusty from a couple of games out? He had an off day? Someone can make improvements in training and still have a dodgy performance, it doesn't guarantee a steady and consistent improvement. I think his overall game has got better due to training work, but he's still going to make mistakes being so new, that's what happened against Blackburn.

You think his mistakes initially were just that, that's fine, that's one view. My view is that perhaps he was adjusting the English game and a little bit nervous. I don't think he's that confident going in with defenders, because in Spain he's used to getting the referee's benefit of the doubt on those calls whereas here it's a bit tougher. He worked on that and became much better at it, in my view.

I don't think it's fair to say I'm doing him a disservice, if you read beyond that one throwaway remark I'd read, all of my posts were defending him. I'm sure the coaching team do all sorts of work with our new players and I think it's natural to assume they'd work on the areas he looked a bit dodgy on and that that would explain why he's improved in those areas, except against Blackburn which was hopefully just an off day.

 

[Plechazunga]

De Gea will be fine, he's clearly very talented

Goalies don't tend to be really consistent till they've got a good few years' experience

 

[Smores]

The fact that DDG even went for the ball is an improvement if you ask me. Granted he never really got off the ground or adequately challenge for it but 5-6 months ago, he wouldn't have even dared make an attempt like that. It's a mistake he's made, he'll learn from it. It's not like Van Der Sar never got caught in the middle of nowhere, people look back with rose tinted spectacles by VDS made mistakes too. DDG has replaced what was one of our best keepers ever and he's only made three or four mistakes in his tenure here so far and frankly if he were at any of the other big clubs, he wouldn't be under half as much scrutiny as he is here, I mean look at Szczesny, he's not exactly flawless and has made a few mistakes but no one really notices because he's at a team that haven't had a strong keeper since Seaman. Cech has cost Chelsea this season far more than DDG has cost us but it's DDG who gets the headlines. I think people should give the lad a break and get behind him.

My feelings exactly. I expect it from the press as they love a new United signing to fail, bit disappointing to see so many United fans buying into it and knee jerking saying a largely unproven Lindergaard needs to save us

I always found VDS got a lot of flak from opposition supports as being prone to mistakes and shit on his near post etc. A United keepers mistakes are highlighted ten fold so it's only those who watch them regularly who get a true sense of worth.

We all knew he needed some time to grow and adjust to the league, you can't accept that and then bitch and moan when he does make a mistake.

 

[darko]

Look at City second goal v 'Pool today. Let's see what the pundits have to say about that.

 

[Plan M]

No keeper gets the negative spot light as much as our David this season.

What about Reina's feck up a few months back? No-one said anything about it!

 

[charlenefan]

David de Gea's potential does not disguise his lack of experience | Daniel Taylor | Football | The Guardian

Thought this was quite a good piece on the issue from Daniel Taylor.

Yep good piece, even had a wry smile at the quote from Dalglish

I really hope De Gea stops making mistakes though, getting tiresome

 

[That'sHernandez]

Yep good piece, even had a wry smile at the quote from Dalglish

I really hope De Gea stops making mistakes though, getting tiresome

Honestly he has not made as many mistakes as his counterparts at other teams like Chelsea, Arsenal and even Liverpool off the top of my head. The only reason you think he has made as many or more is because the press have decided that because he cost so much for a keeper, his age, the big boots VDS left him to fill and the fact that he came from Spain that they are going to give him the headlines when he makes a mistake regardless of what happens that weekend.

 

[Agent Red]

Honestly he has not made as many mistakes as his counterparts at other teams like Chelsea, Arsenal and even Liverpool off the top of my head. The only reason you think he has made as many or more is because the press have decided that because he cost so much for a keeper, his age, the big boots VDS left him to fill and the fact that he came from Spain that they are going to give him the headlines when he makes a mistake regardless of what happens that weekend.

Good points. Cech in particular has been a real liability for Chelsea this season.

 

[Lynk]

United's official monthly magazine, Inside United, caught up with Reds goalkeeper David De Gea just before Christmas.

In the second of our two-part excerpt (you can also read part one), the Spanish goalkeeper speaks of his boyhood heroes, his life off the pitch and his taste for English food.

When you were growing up, who were the goalkeepers that inspired you?
Peter Schmeichel, of course. He was legendary and a role model for any goalkeeper. I've always admired and followed goalkeepers since I was very young. Another one is Iker Casillas of Real Madrid. I think he is an excellent role model for anyone thinking of goalkeeping.

Can you tell us a little bit about yourself as a person? What sort of character do you have?
Well I'm pretty cool, I'm chilled out, I'm relaxed, happy... on the field and off the field. Obviously when you're playing it's a serious thing and you've got to be serious about it but in life generally I am easy going. I like to be with my family, my friends, my girlfriend. I'm a regular guy.

What were your impressions when you first met Sir Alex Fergusion?
Well you can imagine what it is like, of course, with the record he has got, having spent 25 years at the top and at a club like this – it's amazing. It's a unique experience in itself and I was very proud to be able to meet him and spend time with him. All you can say is it's a privilege to meet the boss.

You've settled really well into the United goalmouth. How have you settled in Manchester and in England?
Very well. I'm very happy here in Manchester. I have my family with me, my brother's here, my girlfriend. Who wouldn't be happy? I'm playing at the best club in the world and it's all going great.

Are you enjoying the English food?
You know, before I came here people talked badly about English cuisine but to me, I've been surprised how good it is. I've never come across any unpleasantness about food in Britain. Maybe it's that bit easier for me because my mum is at home and she helps me with food. I'm putting weight on and growing into a big strong lad!

Football aside, what about the difference in culture between Spain and England, how are you finding that experience?
It is very different. The first thing that springs to mind is that people seem to be focused on home life more here in the UK. Things like most shops closing at 5pm - that's very different to Spain, where people tend to spend more time out and about, around the streets, around the shops and restaurants, the shops close very late over there. For me, I like to be relaxed, I like to be at peace so this comfortable, homey kind of life suits me.

This interview originally appeared in Inside United (February 2012 edition).

Part 2 of the interview.

 

[darko]

Good points. Cech in particular has been a real liability for Chelsea this season.

Indeed he has made mistakes that have cost Chelsea and he has lost that fearlessness that a top GK must have.

 

[Ace]

Cech must love having David Luiz in front of him as well.

Sarcasm

 

[Damien]

Another interview with De Gea:

BLUNDER keeper David De Gea has no intention of quitting Manchester United.

The Spaniard has come under fire for a string of high-profile errors, with his latest gaffe taking place in the Red Devils' 3-2 home defeat against Blackburn.

De Gea gifted Rovers a late winner when he failed to collect Morten Gamst Pedersen's corner and allowed Grant Hanley to head home.

But the Spain under-21 international has vowed to emulate the success Old Trafford goalkeeping legends Peter Schmeichel and Edwin van der Sar enjoyed between the sticks.

He said: "I have every intention of spending many years here at Manchester United.

"I want to become a great United keeper and I want to earn and deserve the respect I hope to get.

"I want to help United make history."

And that means the immediate priority is to win what appears to be a straight battle with Manchester City in order to secure a 20th league title.

De Gea added: "Manchester City are causing us a few headaches and Chelsea are still there as well.

"It is not going to be easy but we have to keep that pressure up, it's our principle objective.

"In every way we can, we are going to try and go on and win the league."

Reflecting on his current run of poor form, De Gea said: "Let's face it, all keepers make mistakes once in a while and none of us like it when we do.

"It's well known that the style of play in England is rather more physical and as a goalkeeper you've got to be right on it.

"You've got to be attentive all through the match.

"The players coming at you can shoot from any angle, and they can shoot from distance.

"There's also a lot of crosses from the sides, a lot of high balls and aerial play.

"So, you've got to get in there and block and stop shots being taken."

Man Utd news: David De Gea vows to be long-term No1 | The Sun |Sport|Football

 

[Silva]

Are you enjoying the English food?

You know, before I came here people talked badly about English cuisine but to me, I've been surprised how good it is. I've never come across any unpleasantness about food in Britain. Maybe it's that bit easier for me because my mum is at home and she helps me with food. I'm putting weight on and growing into a big strong lad!

:lol

 

[Ace]

Apparently he's been reading the cafe recently. Where 'Bulk' is not only encouraged, its a requirement.

 

[The Neviller]

Blunder keeper eh? The Sun avoiding hyperbole as usual.

 

[Snow]

Honestly he has not made as many mistakes as his counterparts at other teams like Chelsea, Arsenal and even Liverpool off the top of my head. The only reason you think he has made as many or more is because the press have decided that because he cost so much for a keeper, his age, the big boots VDS left him to fill and the fact that he came from Spain that they are going to give him the headlines when he makes a mistake regardless of what happens that weekend.

He has directly conceded more goals because of his mistakes. But he has made less than the other big team goalies (except for Hart). Seems that each time he makes a mistake it costs him. Unlucky that way. We see goalkeepers misjudging a cross every weekend but more often than not does it result in a goal.
If there's a goal it's likely that a defender messed up as well as the goalkeeper.

 

[peterstorey]

It's a poor attempt at at tagging him in pursuit of their 'dodgy foreign keeper' narrative.

 

[Red Dreams]

the fact is any keeper only gets to be a darn good keeper when they are almost 30.

its experience in the end that matters for a keeper.

 

[Ace]

He has directly conceded more goals because of his mistakes. But he has made less than the other big team goalies (except for Hart). Seems that each time he makes a mistake it costs him. Unlucky that way. We see goalkeepers misjudging a cross every weekend but more often than not does it result in a goal.
If there's a goal it's likely that a defender messed up as well as the goalkeeper.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Blackburn match the first game in which his mistake cost us any points?

 

[peterstorey]

The really good ones are there at about 25. The media are getting more transparent in creating narratives which they then look to fulfil. Examples this season:

Arsenal 'completely fecked, won't make top 6, Wenger must go'
Spurs 'play the most attractive football in the league'
Man City 'the new Barca, just a bit naive in Europe'
AVB 'going to get the tin tack soon'.
Liverpool 'top 4 under Ken Knee'.

 

[Snow]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Blackburn match the first game in which his mistake cost us any points?

Depends on how you look at it how you cost points. Is it only the last goal conceded that matters? Or is it a collective thing. All goals against Blackburn were poorly conceded. Berbatov in the first and Carrick in the 2nd.

You have the Benfica and Basel game which we didn't win. Our attack was very good against Benfica but we missed a lot of chances.

 

[Ace]

Depends on how you look at it how you cost points. Is it only the last goal conceded that matters? Or is it a collective thing. All goals against Blackburn were poorly conceded. Berbatov in the first and Carrick in the 2nd.

You have the Benfica and Basel game which we didn't win. Our attack was very good against Benfica but we missed a lot of chances.

I was talking about the fact that the last mistake led to a goal that put us down 3-2 very late in the game, opposed to a 2-2 draw. But, I guess you couldn't actually know if another team would've scored in the remainder of the game if the mistake didn't happen.

The Basel clearance he made with his legs wouldn't have even been looked at a second time if the ball had bounced anywhere on the filed but to their striker.

 

[Snow]

I agree with the Basel clearance. It's not an awful goalkeeping mistake. It's simply a mistake. With an unlucky ending. It's on par with the Shane Long save attempt.

 

[SharkyMcShark]

It's a poor attempt at at tagging him in pursuit of their 'dodgy foreign keeper' narrative.

The really good ones are there at about 25. The media are getting more transparent in creating narratives which they then look to fulfil. Examples this season:

Arsenal 'completely fecked, won't make top 6, Wenger must go'
Spurs 'play the most attractive football in the league'
Man City 'the new Barca, just a bit naive in Europe'
AVB 'going to get the tin tack soon'.
Liverpool 'top 4 under Ken Knee'.

Its the dodgy foreign keeper + 'Ferguson has made another dodgy keeper signing, its just like post Schmeichel all over again' tropes combining into one mega story.

That's more likely to sell than what is the truth (ie 'Young Keeper comes in for high fee, does alright but has more to learn')

 

[Snow]

Its the dodgy foreign keeper + 'Ferguson has made another dodgy keeper signing, its just like post Schmeichel all over again' tropes combining into one mega story.

That's more likely to sell than what is the truth (ie 'Young Keeper comes in for high fee, does alright but has more to learn')

That would be a brilliant headline!

 

[Ace]

I'm not saying that he hasn't allowed a few soft goals, but the treatment he is getting is borderline ridiculous. Blunder? Flop? My only point is that up until Blackburn, I personally have not felt that he had cost us points. It cost us 1 point in the end, and in the grand scheme of things, that is fantastic.

If I were to tell you at the beginning of the season that our scruffy, new, foreign 20-year-old keeper would only be responsible* for the loss of one point in the league, in his first half season as the starting goalkeeper for the biggest club in the world, would you believe me? Please excuse my run on sentence, but I'm just trying my best to showcase what he's done correctly in a time where everyone's talking about what he's done wrong.

Here's hoping that our November player of the month starts 2012 on the right foot. He deserves a little luck about now.

 

[gaffs]

I'm not saying that he hasn't allowed a few soft goals, but the treatment he is getting is borderline ridiculous. Blunder? Flop? My only point is that up until Blackburn, I personally have not felt that he had cost us points. It cost us 1 point in the end, and in the grand scheme of things, that is fantastic.

If I were to tell you at the beginning of the season that our scruffy, new, foreign 20-year-old keeper would only be responsible* for the loss of one point in the league, in his first half season as the starting goalkeeper for the biggest club in the world, would you believe me? Please excuse my run on sentence, but I'm just trying my best to showcase what he's done correctly in a time where everyone's talking about what he's done wrong.

Here's hoping that our November player of the month starts 2012 on the right foot. He deserves a little luck about now.

At 2-2, we may have gone on to win.

So his mistakes are ok as long as they dont cost up points?

And how about his mistakes against Benfica and Basel in the CL?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's not been a great season for keepers. Cech has definitely made more frequent and more significant errors. Reina's made some first-class cock-ups and Arsenals PIG cost them as many points as DDG over the Christmas/NY fixtures. As has already been pointed out, even Joe Hart (who's probably having the best season of all of them) has a habit of spilling shots at the feet of incoming strikers.

I still think Fergie has a real selection dilemma with DDG finding his feet in a much more physical league, which is refereed so differently to Spain, while Lindegaard is doing everything possible to get the nod ahead of him. I honestly don't know if the best approach is to keep doing what he's doing or choose a keeper and stick with him for the rest of the season. It's a really tough call.

 

[gaffs]

the fact is any keeper only gets to be a darn good keeper when they are almost 30.

its experience in the end that matters for a keeper.

Manuel Neuer looks darn good for a 25 year old, as does Joe Hart for a 24 year old. Iker Casillas was world class at 5!!!

Experience counts for a lot, which is why buying De Gea is a punt.

Inexperiencd keepers will always make mistakes, as will any keeper, though at United, your under the microscope.

Im not sure if playing for United is the best way to get experience.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Manuel Neuer looks darn good for a 25 year old, as does Joe Hart for a 24 year old. Iker Casillas was world class at 5!!!

Experience counts for a lot, which is why buying De Gea is a punt.

Inexperiencd keepers will always make mistakes, as will any keeper, though at United, your under the microscope.

Im not sure if playing for United is the best way to get experience.

Why's that then?

Bearing in mind the best young keeper of the three you just mentioned cut his teeth at one of the biggest, most high-profile clubs on the planet...

 

[Zen]

I don't think anyone can really answer that....Iker was hugely error prone in his early days and still is to an extent(okey not 'hugely'), yet still had plenty of people claiming him to be far superior to Buffon throughout the whole decade. Yet randomly De Gea gets beyond hounded, far more than Reina, Cech and even Schezny have been this year despite all 3 making similar howlers.

Mistakes at Utd seem to bring far more media coverage than anywhere else. Especially Madrid, they seem to be able gloss over it somehow, or well theres always the "Casillas' mistakes are inevitable considering the amount of work he has to do with their shitty defence" excuse, which is partially true I guess(pre-Jose more so), but still.

 

[gaffs]

Why's that then?

Bearing in mind the best young keeper of the three you just mentioned cut his teeth at one of the biggest, most high-profile clubs on the planet...

Its was easier for Casillas as hes a Spaniad playing in Spain - he is not having to adapt his game like De Gea is.

As Zen said, new keepers at United are always going to be under the microscope - probably becasue the press are keen to remind everyone of Fergies sting of useless kepers that followed Schmeichel.

Plus, were not playing that well this season, so there is even more pressure on him.

If De Gea had got though the first season withouth any clangers, then i think his confidence would grow and grow, and he would become an even better keeper.

As is stand, he looks unconfident. He looks like he wants to try and take control by coming for crosses, but hes not strong enough, like we saw on Saturday.

His shotstopping is very good, but that should be a given for any keeper.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Its was easier for Casillas as hes a Spaniad playing in Spain - he is not having to adapt his game like De Gea is.

As Zen said, new keepers at United are always going to be under the microscope - probably becasue the press are keen to remind everyone of Fergies sting of useless kepers that followed Schmeichel.

Plus, were not playing that well this season, so there is even more pressure on him.

If De Gea had got though the first season withouth any clangers, then i think his confidence would grow and grow, and he would become an even better keeper.

As is stand, he looks unconfident. He looks like he wants to try and take control by coming for crosses, but hes not strong enough, like we saw on Saturday.

His shotstopping is very good, but that should be a given for any keeper.

You're ignoring some of his best qualities by pigeon-holing him as a good shot-stopper and not much else.

Keeping nets is about more than stopping shots and coming for crosses. His decision-making and composure are what has impressed me most, along with how comfortable he is with the ball at his feet. If a keeper makes the right decisions all the time, he doesn't need to be an imposing physical specimen barging people out of the way every time the ball comes near the box. It also helps spread calm amongst the back four, as they trust their keeper not to do anything rash. Which has been apparent to me in every game he's played this season. A massive difference from Foster and PIG, who spread jitters to everyone around them.

Regarding high balls into the box, yes he has looked uncertain. As I said, though, this is more to do with the difference in the way the game is refereed than anything else. Benitez went off on one at one point because he couldn't believe that strikers were allowed to compete with keepers for balls landing inside the 6-yard box. Apparently there's a directive on the continent that any such challenge is automatically a free out. With this in mind, it's no great surprise that he's having to re-learn that part of his game.

I'm not sure about the lack of confidence thing either. As people keep saying the true test of any keeper is how he reacts to mistakes. De Gea has made mistakes but they've been followed up by some of his best performances. This is a really encouraging sign. It would be much more worrying if each "howler" was followed by a run of poor games.

 

[Bryan_Munich]

Radio: Tony Coton on ongoing goalkeeper problems at Manchester United | Listen here

 

[Feed Me]

David de Gea's potential does not disguise his lack of experience

Should Manchester United be chasing for the league title with a goalkeeper still learning his craft?

The overwhelming sense when debating Manchester United's goalkeeping issue, and specifically weighing up the long-term benefits but short-term losses of entrusting a talented but still raw 21-year-old, has to be one of deja vu. We have been here already this season, after all, and the arguments became so blurred at the time all that can be said for certain is that the champions were entitled to hope we would not have to revisit the subject so quickly.

It is of whether they should continue with David de Gea in goal when it is almost inevitable, at this point in a career of otherwise great promise, that there will be further mistakes along the way, or whether they bow to the theory that a team going for the title, when every goal and every point might be vital, is not the place for a goalkeeper to be learning on the spot.

The last time this issue was raised Ferguson gritted his teeth, decided against taking the Spaniard out of the team in favour of Anders Lindegaard and most of autumn passed amid the sense that United's manager had negotiated a difficult situation with impeccable judgment.

Opposition players began to realise that peppering De Gea with hopeful, long-distance shots was now a futile exercise. The man Jamie Redknapp said needed "to grow into his kit", after a particularly harrowing league debut at West Bromwich Albion, went to the Britannia Stadium in Stoke and played as though affronted by the suggestion he was a boy among men.

A few weeks later, he turned in a performance at Anfield with all the calmness of a bomb-disposal expert, as if nobody had bothered educating him about what it meant to be beneath the Kop as a Manchester United player. Afterwards the Liverpool manager, Kenny Dalglish, shook his head ruefully and exclaimed: "I thought the press said the boy was struggling."

The ability to make reflex saves, distribute the ball quickly and accurately, and understand the angles of the penalty box is clearly in place, so we should proceed cautiously against the knee-jerk reaction in light of De Gea's recent mistakes, and not lose sight of the fact United undoubtedly knew when they recruited him from Atlético Madrid that it was simply unfeasible to assume the replacement of Edwin van der Sar would pass seamlessly.

Yet the De Gea or Lindegaard issue has resurfaced for legitimate reasons going into Wednesday's match at Newcastle United and this is not, as Ferguson put it in September, the agenda of a media "desperate for the boy to fail". Nobody in the press box invented the mistakes against Benfica and Basel that played a part in United's elimination from the Champions League. It was not a careless sub-editor who flapped at the cross for Blackburn's decisive goal at Old Trafford on New Year's Eve.

The cold, harsh reality is simply that De Gea has let in six goals where the blame, or a significant proportion of it, could be attached to him. At least three more have arrived when the culpability is less obvious but his involvement could still be questioned. That's nine in total, from 19 appearances, and even if mitigating circumstances can be presented in some cases it is still clearly too many when there are five months of the season still to play.

All this has to be balanced by the fact that De Gea has clearly improved, brilliantly sometimes, since that ordeal at The Hawthorns, when he allowed a soft shot to squeeze under his body and it was tempting to watch him throughout the rest of the match through your fingers. Yet De Gea's luck has run out lately. At the start of the season, against West Brom and Manchester City in the Community Shield, his mistakes did not prevent United winning. More recently, against Benfica, Basel and Blackburn, the results have had significant ramifications.

De Gea's occasional vulnerabilities are, of course, probably only inevitable for a goalkeeper who was 20 when he signed his £18.5m transfer in June and, to give him his due, he has probably not been helped by the absence of a consistent back four. In fact, there have been only two occasions in his first six months at the club when he has played behind the same quartet from one game to the next. Equally, a goalkeeper tends to likes consistency whereas Ferguson has been operating a rotation policy not just involving De Gea and Lindegaard but also the 21-year-old Ben Amos. After starting the first five matches of the season, there have been only two occasions when De Gea has been selected in three successive games.

Lindegaard has started five league games so far and not conceded a goal. The Dane is seven years older than De Gea and has a greater penalty-box presence. He does not lack confidence and it has been evident since the pre-season tour of the United States that he is determined to establish himself more prominently in Ferguson's thinking.

Signed from Aalesund for £3.5m last January, he has conceded an average of 0.14 goals a game. De Gea is significantly higher, at 1.37, and in all competitions has only a 74% ratio of saving shots compared with 95% for his rival. Lindegaard has a 100% catching ratio compared with De Gea's 94%. The counter-argument is that the younger man has generally been given the more difficult assignments, whereas Lindegaard has never been put against a top-six opponent.

It is a curiosity, given that Ferguson, in the days of Van der Sar, would regularly speak of his belief that the key factor for a successful goalkeeper was experience. De Gea's potential is clear but, with a soft goal conceded almost every two games, this is an education that does not come without risk.

Thought this was a good article on DDG.

I went a bit berserk at the lad at the weekend, but I think he's going to a top goalie.

Growing pains.

 

[Feed Me]

Ah. Sharky has posted it already.

 

[Cutch]

'Ongoing goalkeeper problems'

FFS, we've got 1 of the best young goalkeepers in the world and probably the best backup keeper we've had in years. What problems!

 

[Escobar]

Manuel Neuer looks darn good for a 25 year old, as does Joe Hart for a 24 year old. Iker Casillas was world class at 5!!!

Experience counts for a lot, which is why buying De Gea is a punt.

Inexperiencd keepers will always make mistakes, as will any keeper, though at United, your under the microscope.

Im not sure if playing for United is the best way to get experience.

Neuer made some shocking errors this season already. Nowadays, it is pretty hard for keepers, the game has become very fast, different balls etc. Our own DDG might have made some mistakes (one now that cost us), but is well on track.

It was just not realistic to think that he comes in and is the new Schmeichel straight away. As I always said, we will see at the end of the season. So far, I see huge potential and a fantastic young player (like Smalling, Jones, Welbeck, Morrison etc.)