David de Gea | 2011-14 Performances

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Great article, finally somebody who dares to question the mighty Joe Hart.

I dont see how anybody now can question de Gea.
 
There has never been a point in his United career where he was genuinely deserving of the criticism and ridicule he got. Was always a very good keeper, and anyone that suggested that Lindegaard should have been favoured ahead of him (former keeper or not) should not be commenting on the situation, De Gea was obviously superior, but now he's on the verge of becoming an excellent one.

It's a shame that the English media don't recognise his superiority to Hart, because De Gea has eclipsed him this season.
 
So, our clean sheet record is 12 in a row right? He just lost out at 7. With Smalling, Jones, Evans, Rafael and DDG behind there's a chance that when they all hit their prime this guy could break that record. Wouldn't that be amazing? 13+ clean sheets. He'd get some recognition then surely.
 
That was a good read. Especially the part about the "Van Persie proving to be the difference" narrative which is odd considering that our best run of results came after he ran out of steam.
 
Am I the only one who finds the De Gea vs Hart stuff kind of tiresome? It's not as though Joe Hart is the only keeper in the league with whom De Gea should be compared. If Hart is having is having a shitty season then, as United fans, we should be even less interested in the comparison. I'd far rather De Gea be playing better than good keepers having a good season.

Something else that's bothering me is the rush to acclaim De Gea as somehow having nothing left to prove. Yes, he's had a part to play in our recent run of clean sheets in the league. But how big a part, really? Cup games aside, I really can't think of any exceptional individual performances from him (or even exceptional saves) throughout our recent lengthy run without conceding. We've defended so well that he's hardly ever been exposed. In the five league games (i.e. 450+ minutes of football) leading up to the derby we only allowed the opposition a grand total of 6 shots on target!

To be fair, he has performed well in the cup games where he's had more to do but this was mainly by doing what we already know he's good at doing, stopping shots. I think there are still question marks over his ability to deal with high balls into the box and I don't understand why people on here get so outraged when commentators and pundits bring this up.

I like De Gea. What I like about him most of all is his mental toughness. His ability to bounce back after making a mistake, or getting dropped. This is a really rare quality and vital at a club like United. It will hopefully be the difference between him and Foster/Howard, in that they are both excellent keepers but not mentally cut out for the type of pressure experienced at United. I still have reservations about his command of the area, though. This is improving but he's still got a way to go before we can state with confidence that we've solved our goalkeeping problem for the forseeable future.
 
Siorac said:
That was a good read. Especially the part about the "Van Persie proving to be the difference" narrative which is odd considering that our best run of results came after he ran out of steam.
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Yeah I noticed that but didn't want to take the focus off DDG! Pretty much proves that silly theory wrong because the gap stretched way bigger after RvP stopped scoring!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Am I the only one who finds the De Gea vs Hart stuff kind of tiresome? It's not as though Joe Hart is the only keeper in the league with whom De Gea should be compared. If Hart is having is having a shitty season then, as United fans, we should be even less interested in the comparison. I'd far rather De Gea be playing better than good keepers having a good season.

Something else that's bothering me is the rush to acclaim De Gea as somehow having nothing left to prove. Yes, he's had a part to play in our recent run of clean sheets in the league. But how big a part, really? Cup games aside, I really can't think of any exceptional individual performances from him (or even exceptional saves) throughout our recent lengthy run without conceding. We've defended so well that he's hardly ever been exposed. In the five league games (i.e. 450+ minutes of football) leading up to the derby we only allowed the opposition a grand total of 6 shots on target!

To be fair, he has performed well in the cup games where he's had more to do but this was mainly by doing what we already know he's good at doing, stopping shots. I think there are still question marks over his ability to deal with high balls into the box and I don't understand why people on here get so outraged when commentators and pundits bring this up.

I like De Gea. What I like about him most of all is his mental toughness. His ability to bounce back after making a mistake, or getting dropped. This is a really rare quality and vital at a club like United. It will hopefully be the difference between him and Foster/Howard, in that they are both excellent keepers but not mentally cut out for the type of pressure experienced at United. I still have reservations about his command of the area, though. This is improving but he's still got a way to go before we can state with confidence that we've solved our goalkeeping problem for the forseeable future.
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I agree with you, it's a bit strange that any time Hart makes a mistake there is a comparison to de Gea or any time de Gea praise comes up people feel they have to compare it to Hart. Saying that I can see where it is coming from, at the end of the day they are the Number 1s at the top 2 clubs in England (and probably our biggest rivals now) and the general opinion in the media is Hart is the best in England so people will always go back to it. I think it'd be nice though if we just rate de Gea on his own rather than always have to feel the need to go back to Hart, it comes across as some kind of obsession always comparing the two. Both are very good keepers at the end of the day and will always divide opinion I'd imagine if they stick around at the clubs.

He made a couple of great saves vs Fulham to be fair to him as well, the one vs Riise and the one which no one picked up on at first stand out but I can see your point, though it must be good for his confidence to have the clean sheets. In fairness to him it seems he is communicating a bit more with the defense now though and he seems far more vocal than he used to be which can only help our cause, there's nothing worse than watching a silent keeper it doesn't help anyone. Equally I think they've worked out the strengths and weaknesses. I may be wrong but I always remember he used to come for a lot more crosses than he does now, he only seems to come out for them now when he's confident of getting it which helps. Some keepers just aren't that good at that side of the game (Given used to always stick to his line if I remember correctly?)

I agree with your last point though it does seem this stuff doesn't phase him at all, Foster and Howard are 2 good examples the latter especially seemed to really let it hit him. I always thought Howard had potential to be United's number 1 for years but the mental side of the game did seem to affect him a lot especially at somewhere as big as United.
 
I'd be surprised if anyone thought DDG had no improvement in him. Whether that improvement will include a "command of the area" is debateable. All I would say is that as long as he generally does NOT come for crosses, then there should be no doubt for the defenders that THEY need to attack the ball rather than half-expecting DDG to come and claim.
I'm comfortable with that balance, while DDG keeps us in matches with excellent saves and minimises errors.
 
Oggmonster said:
I agree with you, it's a bit strange that any time Hart makes a mistake there is a comparison to de Gea or any time de Gea praise comes up people feel they have to compare it to Hart. Saying that I can see where it is coming from, at the end of the day they are the Number 1s at the top 2 clubs in England (and probably our biggest rivals now) and the general opinion in the media is Hart is the best in England so people will always go back to it. I think it'd be nice though if we just rate de Gea on his own rather than always have to feel the need to go back to Hart, it comes across as some kind of obsession always comparing the two. Both are very good keepers at the end of the day and will always divide opinion I'd imagine if they stick around at the clubs.
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Yeah, that's a fair point. Just find it weird the way so many posters on here make such a big deal about every error from Hart, as though that somehow makes De Gea a better keeper. You're right, though. Some comparison is inevitable.

He made a couple of great saves vs Fulham to be fair to him as well, the one vs Riise and the one which no one picked up on at first stand out but I can see your point, though it must be good for his confidence to have the clean sheets. In fairness to him it seems he is communicating a bit more with the defense now though and he seems far more vocal than he used to be which can only help our cause, there's nothing worse than watching a silent keeper it doesn't help anyone. Equally I think they've worked out the strengths and weaknesses. I may be wrong but I always remember he used to come for a lot more crosses than he does now, he only seems to come out for them now when he's confident of getting it which helps. Some keepers just aren't that good at that side of the game (Given used to always stick to his line if I remember correctly?)

I agree with your last point though it does seem this stuff doesn't phase him at all, Foster and Howard are 2 good examples the latter especially seemed to really let it hit him. I always thought Howard had potential to be United's number 1 for years but the mental side of the game did seem to affect him a lot especially at somewhere as big as United.
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I'd expect 9 out of 10 PL keepers to have kept the Riise shot out. I agree that the other save (from Ruiz?) was superb. Since then he's been completely untroubled. Didn't stop him almost making a howler against Sunderland, mind you. If he'd cleared the ball to a striker with a better touch than Graham the papers would all be trotting out the "dodgy keeper" narrative again.

The Given comparison is a good one. He's a decent keeper who was hindered by his lack of inches and tended to always stay rooted to to his line. I think De Gea has a tendency to do the same. This is understandable, while he's still finding his feet but I'd like to see him get a bit more commanding and confident at dealing with high balls. I think he's more athletic than Given, so I'm hopeful he'll end up being a more dominant force in his own area. He's definitely not there yet though. Which you wouldn't realise, reading back through all the adulation in the last dozen or so pages of this thread.
 
I'm not sure his fundamental approach to crosses (stay on the line) will ever change...but I won't knock him for that.

And he is very young for such an important position at a top club.
 
I mentioned before that I saw an interview a couple of weeks ago on MUTV with De Gea and he answered 5-6 questions in Spanish as he normally does (it was subtitled), then at the end he answered 3 or 4 in English. He speaks the language really really well now and that can only have helped him to communicate with his team mates on and off the pitch.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, that's a fair point. Just find it weird the way so many posters on here make such a big deal about every error from Hart, as though that somehow makes De Gea a better keeper. You're right, though. Some comparison is inevitable.
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Yeah I agree, I don't know why it has to crop up all the time, in fairness to Hart a lot of his mistakes this season have also been ones that could happen to anyone, the Southampton one for example is just a freak and any keeper could do it not just Hart. He's hardly got history of making the exact mistake. It's strange as it happens with no other player if Clichy makes a mistake people don't day "Evra wouldn't do that" for example.

Pogue Mahone said:
I'd expect 9 out of 10 PL keepers to have kept the Riise shot out. I agree that the other save (from Ruiz?) was superb. Since then he's been completely untroubled. Didn't stop him almost making a howler against Sunderland, mind you. If he'd cleared the ball to a striker with a better touch than Graham the papers would all be trotting out the "dodgy keeper" narrative again.

The Given comparison is a good one. He's a decent keeper who was hindered by his lack of inches and tended to always stay rooted to to his line. I think De Gea has a tendency to do the same. This is understandable, while he's still finding his feet but I'd like to see him get a bit more commanding and confident at dealing with high balls. I think he's more athletic than Given, so I'm hopeful he'll end up being a more dominant force in his own area. He's definitely not there yet though. Which you wouldn't realise, reading back through all the adulation in the last dozen or so pages of this thread.
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Yeah I probably did over react a bit in hindsight with the Riise shot. I agree he's been untroubled. I remember being at the Everton game and he did the most over the top save I've seen in a long time just to have something to do I think. It didn't bother me but it kind of summed up the solidness of our defence at the moment. He got lucky vs Sunderland it was an awful clearance and quite unlike him really. I suppose everyone needs that luck though, the keepers are unfortunate that they're the last line of the defence and their mistakes are a lot more costly than anyone elses.

I'd agree with the commanding his area and hopefully it comes with time. At his peak I thought Given probably had a spell of being the best keeper in England (at least in the top 3) but he always had that weakness of never coming out for crosses which wasn't good considering how poor Newcastle were defensively they would of needed that authority. Hopefully de Gea does get there and if he does I'd say he can become the number 1 in the world as his shot stopping is not a problem. It comes down to communication really and hopefully that comes with experience. He always seems more in charge when it's Evans and Smalling for example, its as if he was (or is) a bit embarrassed to be shouting at more experienced professionals like Vidic and Rio.
 
Oggmonster said:
I'd agree with the commanding his area and hopefully it comes with time. At his peak I thought Given probably had a spell of being the best keeper in England (at least in the top 3) but he always had that weakness of never coming out for crosses which wasn't good considering how poor Newcastle were defensively they would of needed that authority. Hopefully de Gea does get there and if he does I'd say he can become the number 1 in the world as his shot stopping is not a problem. It comes down to communication really and hopefully that comes with experience. He always seems more in charge when it's Evans and Smalling for example, its as if he was (or is) a bit embarrassed to be shouting at more experienced professionals like Vidic and Rio.
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Exactly. It wasn't just a problem at Newcastle either. I doubt Darren Fletcher would have got his brace against City if they had a keeper who was a bit more confident coming off his line.

I know I'm nit-picking here but I used to play as a keeper and I always found the shot-stopping stuff was the easiest (and most fun!) part of keeping nets. I already know De Gea has brilliant reflexes and atheticism. I just want to see him throw his (recently increased) weight around a bit more.
 
De Gea's looked pretty commanding with the majority of crosses he's had to deal with recently, I thought. I think it was against Chelsea in particular where he looked particularly impressive aerially. You could certainly put that down to him being more confident simply because the defence has been much more organised recently and he hasn't been overworked but I don't think that takes away from his game at all. Quite the opposite. He's made big saves at crucial times in all competitions, he's looked relatively unfazed with crosses coming in and he's started off a number of excellent counter-attacks. There are very few aerially dominant keepers around at the moment and the ones that do try to dominate their area (Hart, Cech, Neuer) have made quite a lot of mistakes because of it. As long as he's not putting the defence under undue pressure by staying on the line consistently (which isn't happening) then I don't see it as much of an issue. There's still room for improvement in that area though, certainly. I think there's more room for improvement in his use of the ball when it's passed back to him. There's been a few dodgy moments there throughout his United career. It's not even just with miskicks like v Sunderland, but there's a lot of kicks that have only just reached the halfway line and were hit fairly flat at pace which has put a lot of pressure on the receiver. Not sure whether he's mishitting them or he's just going for very precise passes in dangerous areas but he needs to work on that for me. Nothing wrong with just clearing your lines.
 
It's all very predictable this. De Gea has done better for us so far than I had expected. He's very young, and new to the league; he was always going to make some errors and take a bit of time to adjust. I'd actually say the errors have not been many, and even things like strength in the air have not been big issues compared to many other keepers I can remember. All in all, I am really impressed with him and he looks set to be our no. 1 for years to come.
 
I think the fact that he's looked so untroubled recently is testament to his improvement with dealing with crosses and commanding the box. Teams aren't playing against us any differently and yet you hardly see the dodgy moments the press latched on to early on. He's doing to same thing he's always done as far as shot stopping goes and he's now look much more assured in dealing with crosses.
 
Seems to be getting better with every game. Did well against a stoke side known to be physical.
I still think his starting position in open play is a bit deep. I admitedly watch the game only on telly so the ones that go to Old Trafford (or aways) can maybe clarify if I am right in my observation.
When we VDS in goal, he would so often come to the edge of the box to clear or collect. You hardly see DDG do it. He wants back and lets the defenders deal with it.
 
kiristao said:
Seems to be getting better with every game. Did well against a stoke side known to be physical.
I still think his starting position in open play is a bit deep. I admitedly watch the game only on telly so the ones that go to Old Trafford (or aways) can maybe clarify if I am right in my observation.
When we VDS in goal, he would so often come to the edge of the box to clear or collect. You hardly see DDG do it. He wants back and lets the defenders deal with it.
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Thats because hes not 6 foot 6 and taught to do it from a young age.

There has clearly been a bit of confusion between the defence and him at beginning. Sometimes they thought he would come and get the ball, other times they would just get the ball cleared.

I think they have all decided now that the defence deal with the ball first and foremost, but if it comes in the 6 yard area DDG deals with it.

Yesterday the English commentary for sky actually talked about the same thing, and Neville said de Gea is just playing to his strengths rather than weakness.

Either way though i think we can finally put all this press rubbish to bed. He has shut his critics up and long may that continue.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Thats because hes not 6 foot 6 and taught to do it from a young age.

There has clearly been a bit of confusion between the defence and him at beginning. Sometimes they thought he would come and get the ball, other times they would just get the ball cleared.

I think they have all decided now that the defence deal with the ball first and foremost, but if it comes in the 6 yard area DDG deals with it.

Yesterday the English commentary for sky actually talked about the same thing, and Neville said de Gea is just playing to his strengths rather than weakness.

Either way though i think we can finally put all this press rubbish to bed. He has shut his critics up and long may that continue.
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I agree that its a good thing that he is playing to his strengths. That has definately helped shut up every one of his critics. I am simply talking about improving other aspects of the game.

I still feel he can work on it because there are many occasion when the defender is under huge pressure in dealing with the ball that DDG could have collected and you still see times when the defender thinks he will be coming for the ball and he doesnt.

Dont think it has got to do with height. Its about reading the game and I guess that will come with experience. I just hope he is working on that aspect as it will go a long way in helping out the defense.
 
kiristao said:
I agree that its a good thing that he is playing to his strengths. That has definately helped shut up every one of his critics. I am simply talking about improving other aspects of the game.

I still feel he can work on it because there are many occasion when the defender is under huge pressure in dealing with the ball that DDG could have collected and you still see times when the defender thinks he will be coming for the ball and he doesnt.

Dont think it has got to do with height. Its about reading the game and I guess that will come with experience. I just hope he is working on that aspect as it will go a long way in helping out the defense.
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Of course, and im sure he will work on it. Do you not think his command of the box has been better?. Not once yesterday did he look wobbly when taking the ball in the box. A few corners he sprang off his line and took the ball cleanly. I think he has already improved that area.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Of course, and im sure he will work on it. Do you not think his command of the box has been better?. Not once yesterday did he look wobbly when taking the ball in the box. A few corners he sprang off his line and took the ball cleanly. I think he has already improved that area.
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He totally has improved on that aspect. I was not saying that he isnt improving. I started my first post talking about how much better he has become.

The reason i posted the bit about his starting position was because on telly you cant always make out properly so I was wondering if i was misreading the situation or if he was infact starting too deep. That aspect I think needs work and like you said, I am sure it is being worked on.
 
kiristao said:
He totally has improved on that aspect. I was not saying that he isnt improving. I started my first post talking about how much better he has become.

The reason i posted the bit about his starting position was because on telly you cant always make out properly so I was wondering if i was misreading the situation or if he was infact starting too deep. That aspect I think needs work and like you said, I am sure it is being worked on.
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I wouldn't say he's 'too' deep. I'd say his starting position in general is one where he won't come and claim a ball that's towards the edge of the 18 yard box though. I assume that's what you mean. I don't think it is something we will see change anytime soon. Claiming regular crosses, corners, set pieces, etc is tricky enough. Once he's 'mastered' that aspect of his game he will no doubt become more commanding to everything in the penalty area.
 
Swaters16 said:
I wouldn't say he's 'too' deep. I'd say his starting position in general is one where he won't come and claim a ball that's towards the edge of the 18 yard box though. I assume that's what you mean. I don't think it is something we will see change anytime soon. Claiming regular crosses, corners, set pieces, etc is tricky enough. Once he's 'mastered' that aspect of his game he will no doubt become more commanding to everything in the penalty area.
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I am talking about through balls or balls played over the defenders heads. Its not towards the edge of the box but the ones in between the edge of the penalty box and the goal kick box.
Anyways, I am sure it is being worked on and like a couple of you guys have said, once he has mastered the 6 yard box, he will slowly work on the rest of the penalty area.
 
He made a great save from a cross yesterday, one of those that go in if nobody touches them, but he got a hand to it and it was a great save. I'm really glad we have him.
 
MUFC07 said:
He made a great save from a cross yesterday, one of those that go in if nobody touches them, but he got a hand to it and it was a great save. I'm really glad we have him.
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Yeah that was a good stop. Didn't commit himself too early and end up in no man's land as you often see. The only other player I see possibly beating him to our POTY is Carrick.
 
We can split hairs over whether De Gea should be standing one yard further out in the box or not, but the bottom line is that an opposing forward has to put in a wicked shot to beat him, he deals with crosses as well as any other keeper in the league, his distribution is easily the best in the league and his footwork on the ball may be the best in the world for a keeper.

We'd be fekked if we had to rely all season on Lindegaard, or even Hart.

But by all means, let's do keep splitting hairs over De Gea's "weaknesses".
 
I think it's interesting and quite telling that opponents have now reduced or just totally stopped bothering with putting him under excess phyiscal pressure from corners and set pieces. Even at the start of the season you'd see teams putting a lot of players right next to him but I didn't see even Stoke bother with that much yesterday.
 
Ruud10 said:
We can split hairs over whether De Gea should be standing one yard further out in the box or not, but the bottom line is that an opposing forward has to put in a wicked shot to beat him, he deals with crosses as well as any other keeper in the league, his distribution is easily the best in the league and his footwork on the ball may be the best in the world for a keeper.

We'd be fekked if we had to rely all season on Lindegaard, or even Hart.

But by all means, let's do keep splitting hairs over De Gea's "weaknesses".
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He doesn't deal with crosses as well as other Gks but is improving and when he starts to excel in this area he'll be number 1 gk in the world!
 
got to say with vidic in the team it ease de gea worries about whether he need to go or not to go for long balls outside of his 6 yard box because he can leave almost everything just for vidic to deal with. kind of suit him for the moment.
 
Ruud10 said:
We can split hairs over whether De Gea should be standing one yard further out in the box or not, but the bottom line is that an opposing forward has to put in a wicked shot to beat him, he deals with crosses as well as any other keeper in the league, his distribution is easily the best in the league and his footwork on the ball may be the best in the world for a keeper.

We'd be fekked if we had to rely all season on Lindegaard, or even Hart.

But by all means, let's do keep splitting hairs over De Gea's "weaknesses".
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I didnt know it wasnt fine to mention a players weakness or shortcomings. No one is "splitting hairs" here. Its something I noticed and I wanted the opinion of the others on the caf.

More importantly, no one is denying that he is much better with crosses and the physicality than he was. I was just talking about how much better he can become if he could also do the almost sweeper type role that VDS used to play for us; something that is only possible if his starting position is a bit ahead.

Having said that, let me repeat again, I am sure it is being worked on and like a lot of others have pointed out, it is probably intentionally done so that he concentrates on his strengths for now and makes adjustment with the other stuff in the future.
 
SharkyMcShark said:
His starting position being deep is something that I'd argue is a deliberate choice - you don't see him getting caught under many crosses anymore, mainly because unless it's going right down his throat he lets the centre backs deal with it for him.
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I am not talking about starting position for set-pieces.. I am talking about starting position from open play to deal with through balls and balls played over the top of our CB's.
 
wr8_utd said:
I think it's interesting and quite telling that opponents have now reduced or just totally stopped bothering with putting him under excess phyiscal pressure from corners and set pieces. Even at the start of the season you'd see teams putting a lot of players right next to him but I didn't see even Stoke bother with that much yesterday.
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I did notice one Stoke player (can't remember who) trying it actually but Carrick was marking him and wasn't having any of it.

In the past Evra was used to try to protect De Gea but it just ended up with Evra plus the opposing striker pretty much on top of De Gea in the end.
 
kiristao said:
I am not talking about starting position for set-pieces.. I am talking about starting position from open play to deal with through balls and balls played over the top of our CB's.
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I think that depends on certain things. When I played, I took a deeper starting position, but was fast on my feet so could make up the ground when sweeping up. VDS, was at an older age, he may have done that purely because he was a bit slower. There is also the fact, that things like sweeping up becomes easier with age as you begin to read play better.

Another point I just thought of is this, are we playing a slightly deeper line anyway these days? With Rio getting on, we do not have the same pace at the back that we once did. Hence a deeper starting position for the keeper.
 
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