Double negative?
David de Gea | 2011-14 Performances
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Double negative?
De Gea and Carrick are both at fault here. Carrick for his incredibly lame, bouncing back pass and De Gea for not being alert and attacking the ball with more authority.
Simply put, it was a balls up and just one of those things! And to be quiet honest it will most likely happen again at some point, as no one is fecking perfect.
IMO there is no doubt that De Gea will be huge here and there will obviously be mistakes along the way. No keeper on this planet isn’t without mistakes, it is just a shame at this moment in time that the media jump all over De Gea for the slightest thing lately.
I had to quote you on this one, Cevno. How does it sum it up for you? Do you agree with the above sentence you quoted? Reason why I ask is, Rio Ferdinand and VDS were both at fault for a feck up at Portsmouth a few years ago that cost us the game, remember? Could you imagine if the exact same incident happened with De Gea in goal? It would be open season on the poor lad.
Simply put, it was a balls up and just one of those things! And to be quiet honest it will most likely happen again at some point, as no one is fecking perfect.
IMO there is no doubt that De Gea will be huge here and there will obviously be mistakes along the way. No keeper on this planet isn’t without mistakes, it is just a shame at this moment in time that the media jump all over De Gea for the slightest thing lately.
I had to quote you on this one, Cevno. How does it sum it up for you? Do you agree with the above sentence you quoted? Reason why I ask is, Rio Ferdinand and VDS were both at fault for a feck up at Portsmouth a few years ago that cost us the game, remember? Could you imagine if the exact same incident happened with De Gea in goal? It would be open season on the poor lad.
What else could have De Gea done? Go for the ball and risk fouling the player and a subsequent red card?
Also, I am getting more and more annoyed with the press now:
From the Guardian. I mean, really?!?
Also, I am getting more and more annoyed with the press now:
From the Guardian. I mean, really?!?
It's an absolute joke, isn't it?
Going by the current scenarios of how the football journos are working and reporting, I am thinking of applying for a press job as well. At least I will get to watch matches from the press box, for free.
It was Carrick's fault completely, he didn't have to put De Gea in that situation in the first place.
Even Fergie says that the first thing Carrick did is to admit it was his fault, and he shouldn't have backpassed.
From the same Guardian article.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jan/30/manchester-united-wayne-rooney-southampton
The problem is that everyone is convinced that De Gea is prone to errors so he is measured with a different scale as compared to the others. If it was some other keeper who had done what he did last night, there would not have been such an uproar.
These examples might make it easier to understand what I am trying to say. Just look at last nights game.
Reina for the wallcott goal and foster for the first goal: Yes both were great strikes but if it were De Gea there would probably have been talk about how he shud have been doing better.
Szczesny (I think) & Howard both came way out of their required position. Howard conceded and szczesny was lucky the chip went over the cross bar.
I didnt even see all the goals scored ystrdy and there are 3 that aleady stand out for me.
As far as De Gea goes, for me, his 2 biggest problems are (a) that he goes in too softly when he tries to get to a cross and (b) his starting position is very deep when forces the defenders to deal with everythin rather then expect De Gea to play the sweeper role that VDS used to play so well.
These examples might make it easier to understand what I am trying to say. Just look at last nights game.
Reina for the wallcott goal and foster for the first goal: Yes both were great strikes but if it were De Gea there would probably have been talk about how he shud have been doing better.
Szczesny (I think) & Howard both came way out of their required position. Howard conceded and szczesny was lucky the chip went over the cross bar.
I didnt even see all the goals scored ystrdy and there are 3 that aleady stand out for me.
As far as De Gea goes, for me, his 2 biggest problems are (a) that he goes in too softly when he tries to get to a cross and (b) his starting position is very deep when forces the defenders to deal with everythin rather then expect De Gea to play the sweeper role that VDS used to play so well.
David "calamity" De Gea
Stupidity of mine, I know ...
Yes, that's exactly what he should have done. The risk of fouling the player was minimal as the ball was easily there to be won; the challenge would have had to have been very wild to have fouled the player, if de Gea had have attacked the ball with conviction he'd have cleared the danger with very little risk at all.
A second, though somewhat less preferable option would have been to stand his ground and make himself a big target; Rodriguez would have had much to do in such a situation, and once he'd taken a touch de Gea would be free from any pass-back restrictions.
Either of the two options described above would have been preferable to what he did in fact do, which was absolutely the wrong thing to do. He made no effort to either win or block the ball, he completely pussied out of the challenge, clearly caught between two minds and not really having a clue what to do. He chickened out, jumped up a bit and spun sideways, in the process making himself probably as skinny and small a target as was possible in the situation; this was incredibly weak goalkeeping, there can be no argument otherwise.
The description from the Guardian is perfectly accurate. Michael Carrick was at fault for putting de Gea in a difficult situation, but de Gea was certainly at fault for handling that difficult situation in the way he did; both players played their part in gifting Southampton the goal.
I've defended de Gea from much bullshit in this thread, I think his coverage in the press is unfairly critical, but you're an idiot if you genuinely think he didn't make a big mistake in how he handled that back-pass last night. Sometimes, as a football supporter, one can defend or attack a certain player's merits to the extent that one becomes completely blind to any evidence that might contradict one's own opinion, and thus, with so many of you unable to see how de Gea was at fault for the goal last night, it seems that this is exactly what is happening here.
De Gea made a big blunder at the start of the game against Southampton which led to us conceding a goal; he wasn't the only player at fault, but he was certainly at fault. You need to deal with that, because to argue otherwise makes you look like a Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
I guess it's a Spanish thing not to come out for the ball. I saw the RM keeper do the same around the 55th minute in the COpa game last night. It was only a last ditch tackle from Varane that prevented a second Barca goal.
The blame for the goal last night belonged to both Carrick and him. It was a terrible pass and DeGea didn't deal with it properly. He is young and will learn. He showed his quality with the save on the Lambert free-kick.
The blame for the goal last night belonged to both Carrick and him. It was a terrible pass and DeGea didn't deal with it properly. He is young and will learn. He showed his quality with the save on the Lambert free-kick.
I think DDG could've done better but in doing so was risking giving away a pen.
Carrick certainly most at fault.
Carrick certainly most at fault.
He just needs to learn to attack the ball with more conviction at times, that's all there is too it really. He's not getting a whole lot of help from the players in front of him, so he needs to take control of certain situations, be more assured and commanding when meeting a cross or a tricky situation like Carrick's pass last night. I imagine all young goalkeepers have similar issues; it doesn't matter how much potential or ability one might have, learning how to deal with difficult situations and make the most of your physical presence in the most efficient and effective manner possible will only come with increasing experience and confidence.
I agree with everything ciderman said in the post above.
edit: well not the post above, but his other post which is slightly above there again
edit: well not the post above, but his other post which is slightly above there again
I agree with you.
One thing about last night though, if he attacks that ball and gets it flicked past him and gives away a pen, I think he then gets zero blame and everyome agrees it was completely Carrick's fault.
Right or wrong?
We can also attribute some "blame" to Anderson for an appalling pass near half-way to start this goal off! At least DDG and Carrick were under some kind of pressure, I don't think Anderson was though!
Then we can also attribute some more "blame" to Carrick for an appalling pass in the first minute.
Totally agree. I've defended him through the slaughtering he got when he parried the ball into a striker's path twice, but he got to the ball first and then seemed to cower, jumping away from it. He should have kicked the ball... Following through would have taken out the man but the chance of a foul was very minimal, due to the fact that he would have kicked the ball.
Terrible pass from Anderson, awful pass from Carrick, terrible goalkeeping from De Gea.
He looked pretty pissed off after the goal, we were sat right near him and he was still shaking his head a couple minutes later it looked like. I'd imagine it's probably even more annoying he had nothing else to do for about 70 minutes after it so couldn't really make amends. I don't think it was all his fault, it was a dreadful ball and I think Carrick knew it but de Gea could of done more, he just jumped over it, I know there's the risk of a penalty early on but he wouldn't of got sent off and by jumping over a ball he must of known he was the only person stopping the goal, you have more of a chance saving a pen.
By the way did MOTD edit out his save from Lambert's FK? Thought it was a very good save me and didn't see it on MOTD, was a bit annoying, seemed like selective editing to make him look like the only thing he had to do all game he did wrong.
The problem with De Gea is he is learning at our expense. Now I usually wouldnt mind that but I just can't help but feel that once he develops into a top class keeper he''ll f*** off to Madrid ala Ronaldo.
I think the risk of giving away a penalty was minimal; the ball was there to be won and the challenge would have been fair as long as he made contact with the ball, which he would have been able to had he not chickened out. Goalkeepers need to have the conviction to attack through-balls, even when such a defence might carry some risk of giving away a penalty, they need to protect their goal by taking calculated risks, and if they deem the risk to be too high then they need to otherwise protect their goal by standing their ground or closing down. David de Gea did none of the above; he turned his back in an instant of feeble indecision and presented the attacker with an open goal with which to score. He had options, but chose none of them. Had he attacked the ball and given away a penalty (an outcome I believe to have been unlikely) then I think I would proportion no blame his way, because at least in that instance he'd have shown the trait of conviction that I believe is essential for a goalkeeper; give me a goalkeeper who gives away the occasional penalty over one lacking conviction and prone to indecision any day; the former has only failed in an attempt to fulfil his duty, whereas the latter has done nothing at all.
This sounds particularly harsh on de Gea, but it isn't meant to be. I believe he'll learn from his mistakes and that he deserves to be United's #1; he's shown great strength of character in his short time with the club and has demonstrated a fine attitude and ability towards self improvement. I prefer to compare him to Ben Foster than to VDS or Schmeichel (those latter comparisons being wholly unfair) as he's a relatively inexperienced but promising goalkeeper whom SAF has taken somewhat of a punt on. Both Foster and de Gea made/have made mistakes during their time in goal at United, but whilst Foster appeared increasingly and noticeably shaken and unsure of himself as the games wore on, de Gea in contrast just seems to get on with things; he shows great confidence even if at times he falls victim to indecision. I think Foster would have made it at United had he possessed de Gea's level of confidence and bounce-backability, but it wasn't to be, hence I believe de Gea will be a fine goalkeeper for us for years to come. It's worth pointing out that Ben Foster was 27 when he was trying to stake his claim on the United GK jersey, de Gea is currently only 22.
Patience in this case will pay dividends.
Yeah that'd be annoying. Does all his 'learning from mistaking' at United then soon as he's over that he fecks off to Spain and never gets anything wrong again.
The only reasonable response in that case would be to kill him.
Good post.
he has huge potential and no doubt we see flashes of that. I think it's quite interesting what Southampton manager Mauricio Pochettino said about De Gea:
""It is clear to me that any free-kick near to the box, or a corner, presents a goalscoring opportunity," he said.
"That doesn't happen as much in the Spanish league.
"Also, the goalkeeper in Spain is a bit more protected than here. That makes their job here a lot harder."
There is obviously a pretty large learning curve coming from La Liga to the Premiership. I'm sure this season is a continuing education for him. However unfortunately I don't think he is exactly creating a hell of a lot of confidence amongst the team. Didn't RVP at one point tell him to 'calm down'. Kind of says it all...
People are saying Fergie might go for a more experienced goalkeeper this summer, but I really can't see that.
""It is clear to me that any free-kick near to the box, or a corner, presents a goalscoring opportunity," he said.
"That doesn't happen as much in the Spanish league.
"Also, the goalkeeper in Spain is a bit more protected than here. That makes their job here a lot harder."
There is obviously a pretty large learning curve coming from La Liga to the Premiership. I'm sure this season is a continuing education for him. However unfortunately I don't think he is exactly creating a hell of a lot of confidence amongst the team. Didn't RVP at one point tell him to 'calm down'. Kind of says it all...
People are saying Fergie might go for a more experienced goalkeeper this summer, but I really can't see that.
It was good teamsmanship from RVP, he seemed to pat him on the back in the show of support as the pressure from Southampton was mounting. A fine display of experience guiding youth. I think RVP could captain us one day in the future.
Agreed.
Yeah that'd be annoying. Does all his 'learning from mistaking' at United then soon as he's over that he fecks off to Spain and never gets anything wrong again.
The only reasonable response in that case would be to kill him.
But you know deep down he sees United as stepping stone to Madrid or Baca. In 5 or 6 years time when he's Spain's number 1, he'll claim to be homesick and push for a big move. Just hope we can make a big profit on him by then.
But you know deep down he sees United as stepping stone to Madrid or Baca. In 5 or 6 years time when he's Spain's number 1, he'll claim to be homesick and push for a big move. Just hope we can make a big profit on him by then.
No, you don't. He has no affiliation with those clubs. Not every foreign player is desperate to move back to their home country. Nothing like the Ronaldo scenario. De Gea doesn't dream of playing for those clubs.
Not every foreign player, but every spanish player grows up supporting Real/Barca. Im sure DDG wont be here in by the time he's 26.
Followed the game on here last night, so only saw it for the first time on match of the day, and that was all day long down to carrick.
It was a shite backpass that stitched De Gea up. It reminded me of Gerrard for England vs France at euro 2004. Same scenario, but David James came flying out and clattered Henry, gave away a penalty.
I'm actually glad de Gea didn't lose his head and do the same, as we could have been down to ten men, 1-0 down after 3 minutes, which judging by how the game went, would have cost us 3 points.
The media in the uk are after him, and sadly it will probably drive him away eventually, to someone like barca and Spain, where he will be appreciated and develop into one the best keepers in the world.
It was a shite backpass that stitched De Gea up. It reminded me of Gerrard for England vs France at euro 2004. Same scenario, but David James came flying out and clattered Henry, gave away a penalty.
I'm actually glad de Gea didn't lose his head and do the same, as we could have been down to ten men, 1-0 down after 3 minutes, which judging by how the game went, would have cost us 3 points.
The media in the uk are after him, and sadly it will probably drive him away eventually, to someone like barca and Spain, where he will be appreciated and develop into one the best keepers in the world.
Pretty much spot on.
No they don't
If he's such a big Athletico fan then why did he leave them for us? Who you supported as a kid means feck all to a pro footballer.
You're not making any sense. He can support Barca/Madrid and play for Athletico.....but he can't support Athletico and play for Manchester United?
All that's irrelevant, the fact of the argument is obviously not every Spanish footballer supports only Madrid or Barca, think about how ridiculous that sounds.
No they don't, that's amazingly stupid.
Yes they do. They support their local team first and Barca or Real second. Its very very common.
If that's the case why bother (wrongly) mentioning that every kid supports Barca or Madrid?
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