Do we really want to be competitive and win trophies?!
David Brooks
- Thread starter Zoo
- Start date
I think we want to be competitive for finishing in the top 4. Winning trophies is another thing.
All of those players he mentioned are better than Brooks, in fact Minamino has proven more in the game before his winter switch to the scousers.
My issue with the proposed transfer is that
1. The fee is too high for the quality of player in question
2. He is not even good enough to deputise Bruno in that squad.
I have watched the player in question and he's nothing special. You can point one quality he's good at, so what's the point?
We won't make progress with such signings, period!
Even at 20m , we still shouldn't get him.It's funny reading people's obsession with the 40m price tag. Just because that is the fee being touted about doesn't mean he will cost that much. Dortmund want 108m for Sancho and we want to pay 60-80m, why dafuq would we be bending over for the mighty Bournemouth
Greenwood at this time is a squad player, so why get another one?
You won't be helping Bruno by getting a player who has no hope in hell of challenging his spot. Successful teams are not built based on that.
Wow. Imagine reading through your own post, quoting it with absolute smugness, and not realizing the £40m you mention doesn't actually feature in the part about buying squad players, only what he would apparently cost. You've told me with absolute certainty that buying players for your squad isn't how you add depth. Here is your full post for your own convenience. And for your own convenience, I've highlighted the relevant part in bold.
Now, I've just given you multiple players that proves this to be a complete fallacy. But now it's all about squad players that cost £40m, eh? Not just squad players, as you mentioned in your original post. Hence the part about adding caveats. So would you like to try again without the pissy attitude?
That’s around what chambo cost
Are you the same person banging on about Grealish claiming he is much better when their full PL stats are pretty much the same..?
In what way is Greenwood currently a sqaud player, did we sign Sancho?
Brooks would get in our best XI on the right
So when you read a paragraph, you stop the context at the full stop? That's not how the english language works mate.
Back to my point, if we're signing Brooks for £15m its an absolutely no brainer. He most definitely improves the crap we have on the bench we have. But going onto the second sentence which is in the same paragraph adding to the same context, spending £40m on him to come in and be a sub is stupid. Unless you have his agent on speed dial, we are all going off the reported figure. On that basis is what we make our opinions on.
Ahead of Greenwood? Now I've heard it all!
Very informative, cheers.
That's exactly how the English Language works, mate. You've changed the subject, otherwise you'd include it in your initial declarative sentence. If you're going to try and tell me how the English language works, then you should probably have a better grasp of it first. Nice attempt at backpedaling though. Kudos.
You mean, back to your point that wasn't your point, empirically demonstrated by the bolded part in my previous post. Yes, paying a sensible fee would be beneficial to the club. Now, unless you have Woody on speed dial, you have no way of knowing whether this thin source is absolutely accurate, or that we are willing to pay the purported fee, of whether we are going to try and negotiate said fee.
Grealish is a better player, far more accomplished on the ball, stronger, more pace and you know what? Far far more creative it isn't even a joke
Greenwood shouldn't be a starter in this team if we want to compete for the title.
Its obvious he drifts out of games.
Firstly, apologies for being a nob in my replies mate. I’m not normally that arsey. The whole transfer frustration got to me!
In my initial post however, my point of view (which wasn’t stated in full detail) comes from the fact that we genuinely need improvements in our starting eleven as it stands. I don’t feel we are in a position to spending large amounts of money on players who are not going to be in our starting line up.
Our right wing has been a problem for many years and still is as we keep papering over the cracks. This season Greenwood has been a sensational accident on the right wing. I doubt the management had planned before the season started for him to become our main man from the right wing. He’s performed incredibly albeit. But he has still shown deficiencies which a player like Sancho would address such as the ability to beat a man with pace and skill and deliver a ball into the box.
For me, right wing, centre back and defensive midfield are major areas for improvement which we should be looking to address as a priority. The players that drop out of those positions would still be good enough to provide quality cover as squad options. That makes more sense for our situation than spending what is being reported on Brooks who is great potential but would not be a starter. If he is available for 15-20 then absolutely I’m all for it because we will be able to recoup that by shipping out some of the existing bench who play in those positions.
With regards to the Liverpool players you mentioned, Liverpool needed to bring players in who gave them depth. It’s hard to purchase a player who walks into liverpools side because they’ve had the make up of a title winning side for a couple of years now. Hence why it had to be someone like VVD in order to break into their starting lineup.
Anyhow, I totally get your point that you can benefit by strengthing squad options. But for those reported fees I find it hard to justify. I guess I’m biased too in that I desperately want us to sign Sancho having watched so much of him in the last couple of years. He really would help elevate us to another level which no other player who is currently available would be able to do.
Well thats in your opinion, if you compare both their full seasons the stats do not come to that conclusion:
Brooks 30 games 7 goals 5 assists
Grealish 36 games 8 goals 6 assists
Grealish is also more of a AM than a genuine winger. Brooks is closer to what we are looking, being a left footed right winger.
If Villa's 60m price tag is true you can get both Brooks & VDB for the same price and cover the CM, AM and RW
I remember seeing Brooks in a few games a couple of seasons ago and thinking he could turn into a hell of a player.
I'm not saying I'd take him ahead of Sancho but, at the prices touted, I'd much rather be in for him than Grealish.
I'm not saying I'd take him ahead of Sancho but, at the prices touted, I'd much rather be in for him than Grealish.
If Ole was like Klopp ie the type of coach to develop players he brings in then Brooks would be worth a punt, as we can see what Klopp has done with bargain basement buys such as Robertson. but alas Ole is not, so it's a no for me.
What....... you can't be serious, he wouldnt get ahead of greenwood there's absolutely no chance.
Robertson may have been a lower league but he was never 'bargain basement' mate. He was very highly rated
Alas Ole has been brilliant with all of our under 24 players this last 18 months.
I think he is Welsh, so he probably is serious.
Like the look of Brooks. Slight concern would be that he seems very one footed (left) for a right winger.
It is going to be Dan James all over again. No we do not need him. We need a world class player. Grealish in a 4 man midfield would be brilliant.
If we pay £40m for this guy and we fail to get Sancho because of the price BVB set (£108m) the I give up.. seriously.
Yeah that's bullshit.
Aye Robben and Giggs had similar issues the shitcnuts.
That'd be monumentally stupid indeed.
But I wouldn't be surprised if the actual price is around something as low as 20m. The 40m that's being bandied about doesn't really pass the smell test IMO. I don't think Bournemouth would do that - with the recent serious injury it makes them appear out-of-touch.
He is way better than Dan James. We should put enquiry on how we paid 20m for James. Brooks would be great addition and will give us better option.
Bournemouth just sold Ramsdale back to Sheffield United for nearly 20mil. They sold Ake to City for 40mil, so it looks like they're very good at selling players. Also new season starts in less than 4 weeks, where some team reported to be back for pre season the coming week. So they know the game, and can play hardball in negotiation against those who are desperate.
Both those sales were relaistic with the contribution they made coupled with the initial outlay in the first place.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Brooks had been quite decent for them this season (question whether he can step up to the level of our need remain though). We have seen player from Championship getting moved for around 20mil or more. Bournemouth doesn't need to sell. Him continuing to do well then they can still get more than 20mil in the future.
I agree. Those sales were quite reasonable to the point that the Brooks 40m thing seems not true.
Learning about how Bayern have put together their team with so many very low priced players, I think fans need to be much more open minded to these sorts of transfers. We cant just keep paying £50m for guys like Fred, AWB etc.
Last year, Woodward and OGS talked about the new scouting process, backed up by our own bespoke big data ranking software. Im assuming that process has identified prospects like Brooks, who if any of us are honest, none of us would have suggested.
I'd love to see the names of the top 10 players valued under £30m that system has identified
Last year, Woodward and OGS talked about the new scouting process, backed up by our own bespoke big data ranking software. Im assuming that process has identified prospects like Brooks, who if any of us are honest, none of us would have suggested.
I'd love to see the names of the top 10 players valued under £30m that system has identified
Case in point Perisic. He is a good player and he starts for Bayern. He scored against Barca. Yet you ask people here, we dodged a huge bullet not signing him 2 years ago.
I agree with you 100 %. Not every transfer needs to break the bank. Sometimes getting solid players who add depth works and therefore I am 100 % in favor of getting Brooks. If we can get the Brooks equivalent at few more positions I would consider it a very succesful transfer market for us.
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Is he better than the players we have on the bench? Can he come on and do a job? Is he better than Dan James? Which position is he going to play?
I am all for low price, under the radar signings. Point being the price being quoted for Brooks (understandably from Bournemouth, the selling club) is not cheap. It's similar to last summer Longstaff pursuit. We want to purchase at low price, but couldn't. Wasting time when we could have just paid for Bruno and perhaps got a better season overall. And there is another scenario where we did acquire Longstaff (the squad depth cheap option) but he ain't better than what we had, and god forbid never went all the way for Bruno(!!!), to think about. It's not out of possibility for Woodward to miss out main targets, then let the season rot, is it?
It's easy to look at a successful team and wish for similar outcome. Let's not forget Bayern can get some talents in German market for cheap(er), and they have access to more options.
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Regarding the bolded part, I think his name came up a lot last year along with Buendia.
The Bayern part cannot be emphasized enough. It's possible to build a high-performance team in that fashion. But to do what Bayern did you can't have a Woodward/Judge involved. Going forward, theoretically it's possible if they listen to guidance, but the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and all that jazz.
The Bayern model was something we followed quite religiously during fergies reign. But the key is having a core and a squad that is already at a very high level so that you add 'punts' who refresh your squad while giving you numbers and for minimal risk. Especially if their international selection is guaranteed even if they don't start regularly because they happen to belong to one of the non-premier footballing nations. Eg. Park, fortune, chicharito, Vidic. In a situation like we are in, where we need to go up a level or more quite badly the priority level for these sort of acquisitions are quite low down. The ones like Bruno and sancho are whom we need more urgently. Ighalo is an exception because everyone and their dog knew we needed a striker for depth after we sold lukaku and had injury troubles yet we only signed him in january.