Darren Fletcher

Solius said:
Wonder why Fergie is only giving him game time in the Champions League? Not even a minute in the PL.
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I'm not sure if he can handle the intensity of a league match just yet. At least in the CL teams are often more measured and it's less physically demanding than the league in terms of pure strength. He still looks frail and always plays simple passes around 5-10 yards in and around him whereas he'd been a bit more ambitious before his illness.
 
lesclaypool said:
I'm not sure if he can handle the intensity of a league match just yet. At least in the CL teams are often more measured and it's less physically demanding than the league in terms of pure strength. He still looks frail and always plays simple passes around 5-10 yards in and around him whereas he'd been a bit more ambitious before his illness.
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This.

It's down to the physical intensity. The pace of games in the CL is slower and less physically demanding. He would be completely exposed in the PL at the moment.
 
How much longer do you think it will take to get fully up to speed? It cant be that long, given the number of games he has been getting. Or does the nature of his previous injury mean his body cannot gain strength as quickly as it normally would?

Are we likely to be talking a few more weeks? Or months?
 
Adebesi said:
How much longer do you think it will take to get fully up to speed? It cant be that long, given the number of games he has been getting. Or does the nature of his previous injury mean his body cannot gain strength as quickly as it normally would?

Are we likely to be talking a few more weeks? Or months?
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Tough to call really. But losing all that weight, then spending months to get it back, and to still have ongoing problems with his illness, even now when playing, it can't be easy. All that time out, he needs time but its great to see him having a go in CL games instead of reserve games.
 
Jonno said:
Tough to call really. But losing all that weight, then spending months to get it back, and to still have ongoing problems with his illness, even now when playing, it can't be easy. All that time out, he needs time but its great to see him having a go in CL games instead of reserve games.
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I didnt know that he was still actually ill. I thought it was all about his recovery now. That just makes it even more remarkable.

Agreed, it is great to have him there. I keep going on about how surprising it is. That's the thing, I originally thought his comeback would be very slow. I didnt expect to see him playing 90 minutes in any game this side of Christmas. So seeing him for all these games is kind of giving me potentially misplaced hope.
 
I remember reading a quote from Fergie that Fletchers illness is now "manageable" but will stay with him for life. Don't think it will hold him back as a player though, it will just take a lot to get him back to his peak. Good job he is a natural grafter because that's exactly what he needs to do for the next few months.
 
I think he's approached the games he has played smartly. He's not rushing about all guns blazing trying to prove he cans till play as he did, instead he's playing a deeper more measured role and doing well at it. Even if he is to remain more a squad choice these days it's still a great achievement.
 
Solius said:
Wonder why Fergie is only giving him game time in the Champions League? Not even a minute in the PL.
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We're in an easy group and every game we've played has been one in which we could afford to lose and still qualify - we can afford a passenger more in these games than in the Premier League.
 
I dont understand the focus on running around on this forum sometimes. No, he doesnt run around like a headless chicken anymore and plays in a less dynamic role, but why is that necessarily a bad thing? He hardly did anything for us except in games against arguably 'better' opposition (at playing football, that is) and only destroyed by harrying all game. Id rather he try to develop into a decent cover for Carrick in the deep lying play maker role, which from what Ive seen from his passing so far, he has the ability to do. He only needs to work on his game readin and positioning so he can be more efiicient at breaking the oppoisition down.

Saying that hes 'finished' just because he cant run around like a dynamo all game is just wrong, and its also totally deluded to believe that he can play his old terrier role after the kind of illness hes had. We need cover for Carrick though, he could try to be that player.
 
Jonno said:
Give the guy some time, he was out for the best part of a year with a problem that easily surpasses a football related injury. He has had to fight hard to just get his correct weight back let alone his football form back. Slow process, give him time.
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Spot on.

Having been through the condition that he has endured, I have an idea what its like. Now he's back in his 'day job', it will take 4-6 months to get back the mental confidence as well as the physical requirements a player of his type requires.

That he is playing world class level football right now is a massively encouraging sign. Im sure SAF has taken on the very best council and so has a plan mapped out to ensure that Fletcher is a proper option for ANY GAME once we get past February (as long as he can remain injury free) when all the games have importance and come thick and fast.
 
Jonno said:
This.

It's down to the physical intensity. The pace of games in the CL is slower and less physically demanding. He would be completely exposed in the PL at the moment.
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Even against Wales, the match sharpness of Ramsey and Allen exposed him at times, whereas a match-fit Fletcher would have gobbled up any attempts by those two to get past him.
 
Ferguson on Villa Park:

"(...) and we went there in the last game of the season in 1999/2000 needing four goals to reach 100. Teddy Sheringham scored in the second half to put us on 97 but we missed countless chances so the century eluded us. I was close to giving a young Darren Fletcher his debut that day – he was 15 – but the rules didn't allow me to."

Just thought it was interesting.
 
Maciek said:
Ferguson on Villa Park:

"(...) and we went there in the last game of the season in 1999/2000 needing four goals to reach 100. Teddy Sheringham scored in the second half to put us on 97 but we missed countless chances so the century eluded us. I was close to giving a young Darren Fletcher his debut that day – he was 15 – but the rules didn't allow me to."

Just thought it was interesting.
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I remember him saying that. I wasn't too impressed with Fletcher for the first few seasons either, he just seemed very average and couldn't really do anything for us. How wrong I was....
 
I think he had a serious injury not long after that and missed a lot of football, was a while before we saw him in the team if I am not getting him mixed up with another player.
 
You're right, he missed tonnes of footie between the ages of 16ish and 19ish.
 
I say it quite a bit, but I love the way he seems to be able to pass the ball right through the man standing in front of him.

I used to play with a lad who was in the Arsenal academy for a couple of years when he was younger, and he said they were always told there were five phases during which you could make a one touch pass: 1) at the very first moment its within your reach, 2) as it rolls closer, 3) when it's right under your feet, 4) as it starts to move away from you, and 5) just before it rolls beyond your reach. And they were told there's almost always a moment before (5) when the defender stops trying to block but you can still make the pass.

Fletcher is the master of that pass, letting it roll right across his body and then slotting it around his marker with a long leg. Gives our play so much more forward momentum.
 
Good match from Fletch. Still a bit off the pace as he was a bit slow to react to Galatasaray's pressure at times. Did try the hollywood ball a bit too much but did well otherwise.
 
Plato said:
Good match from Fletch. Still a bit off the pace as he was a bit slow to react to Galatasaray's pressure at times. Did try the hollywood ball a bit too much but did well otherwise.
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I thought he faded in the second half. He kept things ticking over well but he seems a lot slower now. I am not convinced that he can be a key player for us again.
 
Plato said:
Good match from Fletch. Still a bit off the pace as he was a bit slow to react to Galatasaray's pressure at times. Did try the hollywood ball a bit too much but did well otherwise.
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Jesus!! If you mean he completed the odd easy square or backwards ball well then yes he was fantastic!! But he also got caught in possession, didn't run and hassle (which was his best asset), I can't think of a decent challenge, didn't jump what so ever for their goal, pointed at team mates to pick up runners, when they already had men to mark and when he tried a ball forward over 10 yards gave it away!!
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I thought he faded in the second half. He kept things ticking over well but he seems a lot slower now. I am not convinced that he can be a key player for us again.
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Agreed. He used to quicker and him being slow at times today worried me. I don't enough credit in general has been given to Galatasaray. Their pressure wasn't easy to live with.
 
He's lost a yard of pace, and no longer has that bite in his tackle.

Still, he sort of covers space. Partially.

Better on the ball tonight than earlier outings since his break. Still a while to go for him though. Not sure he'll ever get back to where he was.
 
Plato said:
Good match from Fletch. Still a bit off the pace as he was a bit slow to react to Galatasaray's pressure at times. Did try the hollywood ball a bit too much but did well otherwise.
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Yeah I agree. I thought he did quite well defensively, because of how we play the diamond it's quite tough for the holding player to make a lot of challenges because we don't tuck in the two wider players enough and so it means if the a/m doesn't get back quick there's a lot of space. That said a fletcher with a bit more energy would probably have got suck in more but I thought he did a good job slotting in to the defence to allow us to contain them. Thought he passed it quite well as well aside from going long a bit too much as you said.
 
Ash_G said:
Yeah I agree. I thought he did quite well defensively, because of how we play the diamond it's quite tough for the holding player to make a lot of challenges because we don't tuck in the two wider players enough and so it means if the a/m doesn't get back quick there's a lot of space. That said a fletcher with a bit more energy would probably have got suck in more but I thought he did a good job slotting in to the defence to allow us to contain them. Thought he passed it quite well as well aside from going long a bit too much as you said.
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Is it just me or do you also think we deploy the diamond in a weird way?
 
Plato said:
Is it just me or do you also think we deploy the diamond in a weird way?
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Nah I think it was weird, was saying to theon that we try to almost retain the width somewhat from the midfielders and play it and so it means unless the a/m gets back quick there's just too much space in the middle and with Powell in there instead of Rooney that was quite telling and it put a lot of strain on ando and clev in terms of energy needed and also made it tough for fletch to enforce himself.

In terms of general use I think it has a lot going for it but I think we lack a player who can open it up in the final third with either some skill/pace or the killer ball. Kagawa could be the answer to that at the tip of the diamond but I don't think that would be practical if we keep trying to use it as we are. Still think the 433 will give the best of both.
 
Ash_G said:
Nah I think it was weird, was saying to theon that we try to almost retain the width somewhat from the midfielders and play it and so it means unless the a/m gets back quick there's just too much space in the middle and with Powell in there instead of Rooney that was quite telling and it put a lot of strain on ando and clev in terms of energy needed and also made it tough for fletch to enforce himself.

In terms of general use I think it has a lot going for it but I think we lack a player who can open it up in the final third with either some skill/pace or the killer ball. Kagawa could be the answer to that at the tip of the diamond but I don't think that would be practical if we keep trying to use it as we are. Still think the 433 will give the best of both.
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Completely agree. Which is why I don't understand why we don't use a 4-4-3. It's perfect for this team.
 
He was okay tonight but I thought he should have came off instead of Anderson as he looked spent in the last 35 minutes. I still doubt he'll ever be the player he was at his best but hopefully he can get a few seasons as a squad player.

Plato said:
Completely agree. Which is why I don't understand why we don't use a 4-4-3. It's perfect for this team.
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Playing with an extra man may be the tactical key to improved performances.
 
Plato said:
Completely agree. Which is why I don't understand why we don't use a 4-4-3. It's perfect for this team.
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Yeah me either and let's fergie use at least 1 of the wingers, hopefully that's what we'll see long term, can't imagine he bought kagawa as a squad player as he was also chasing rvp, must have had a plan, although suppose he may have been planning to stick kagawa onthe left of a 4 which would be disappointing.
 
Brightonian said:
I say it quite a bit, but I love the way he seems to be able to pass the ball right through the man standing in front of him.

I used to play with a lad who was in the Arsenal academy for a couple of years when he was younger, and he said they were always told there were five phases during which you could make a one touch pass: 1) at the very first moment its within your reach, 2) as it rolls closer, 3) when it's right under your feet, 4) as it starts to move away from you, and 5) just before it rolls beyond your reach. And they were told there's almost always a moment before (5) when the defender stops trying to block but you can still make the pass.

Fletcher is the master of that pass, letting it roll right across his body and then slotting it around his marker with a long leg. Gives our play so much more forward momentum.
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I'm sorry but that sounds like total shit. Basically any time you're able to hit the ball is a phase where you can make a one touch pass.
 
Snow said:
I'm sorry but that sounds like total shit. Basically any time you're able to hit the ball is a phase where you can make a one touch pass.
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You've not understood the point. Perhaps I've not made it very well. I'm shit at explaining stuff online, so I'm not going to try - it was all ultimately just an attempt to describe the way in which Fletcher passes to someone directly in front of him when there's an opponent in front of him, directly between him and the recipient of the pass. The rest of it I could show you, and you'd understand what I meant immediately, but I can't explain it easily.
 
Brightonian said:
You've not understood the point. Perhaps I've not made it very well. I'm shit at explaining stuff online, so I'm not going to try - it was all ultimately just an attempt to describe the way in which Fletcher passes to someone directly in front of him when there's an opponent in front of him, directly between him and the recipient of the pass. The rest of it I could show you, and you'd understand what I meant immediately, but I can't explain it easily.
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I know what you mean, never been able to describe it either but it's a useful style of pass that often doesn't get acknowledged, think someone like kagawa who likes to pick up the ball centrally and turn could do a lot with it.
 
Ash_G said:
I know what you mean, never been able to describe it either but it's a useful style of pass that often doesn't get acknowledged, think someone like kagawa who likes to pick up the ball centrally and turn could do a lot with it.
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Exactly. Cleverley benefits from it too.
 
Ash_G said:
Nah I think it was weird, was saying to theon that we try to almost retain the width somewhat from the midfielders and play it and so it means unless the a/m gets back quick there's just too much space in the middle and with Powell in there instead of Rooney that was quite telling and it put a lot of strain on ando and clev in terms of energy needed and also made it tough for fletch to enforce himself.

In terms of general use I think it has a lot going for it but I think we lack a player who can open it up in the final third with either some skill/pace or the killer ball. Kagawa could be the answer to that at the tip of the diamond but I don't think that would be practical if we keep trying to use it as we are. Still think the 433 will give the best of both.
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It was a lot tighter tonight IMO, think that was the best we have used it.

Got to remember that was a fecking tough away game, they had to win and you saw how much effort their players put in - Melo especially was fecking possessed. Yet it was fairly even despite us playing a weak team in a new and unsettled system.

Look at the amount Powell got on the ball in dangerous places tonight and just think that when we play our best team that would be Rooney, he could control the match. Not to mention the others we missed, especially Van Persie.
 
Is a terrific footballer, now needs to get his energy level and movement back, to become a top player again.
 
Theon said:
It was a lot tighter tonight IMO, think that was the best we have used it.

Got to remember that was a fecking tough away game, they had to win and you saw how much effort their players put in - Melo especially was fecking possessed. Yet it was fairly even despite us playing a weak team in a new and unsettled system.

Look at the amount Powell got on the ball in dangerous places tonight and just think that when we play our best team that would be Rooney, he could control the match. Not to mention the others we missed, especially Van Persie.
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I agree it was tighter but it was still weird to me how Cleverley and Anderson rotated wide whenever they defended. The diamond does have promise though. Think we're better off using a 4-3-3 imo
 
Last thirty minutes, his legs looked wobbly. Did fine in the first and second half but I still miss the Fletcher that used to press opponents high up the pitch, closing em' down like a guy on steroids and tracking back really well.

Definitely way off his best. Still, we hope he can get his fitness levels back to where he can close down the opposition better, right now I can't see him play in a 4-4-2.
 
Plato said:
I agree it was tighter but it was still weird to me how Cleverley and Anderson rotated wide whenever they defended. The diamond does have promise though. Think we're better off using a 4-3-3 imo
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How would you line it up?
 
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