Danny Welbeck | 2011-14 Performances

Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't know what the optimism is based on other than "it's Danny Welbeck" and an eye to his background. There's no realism at all it's just assumed that suddenly overnight he'll become a world beater. You can nullify criticism of any player in the world by randomly asserting he'll be top class next year. It's eerily similar to "next year is our year" sentiment often expressed at another place.

I suspect if he isn't a world beater next season it won't matter as the claim will be he'll be a world beater the season after and if not the season after that. It's as if the player himself has no relevance to anything and it's a competition where the most optimistic prediction wins. If Welbeck is to become top class there's going to have to be an almost unprecedented acceleration in his development over just afew short weeks.
 
Welbeck invites delusion like no other player I've seen at United.
 
This could go either way. On one hand, Van Gaal will like him for his big game attitude, link up play and the tactical advantage he brings to the table. On the other hand, LVG may seriously dislike his 'bambi on ice' moments and the general lack of good anticipation inside the box. Either way I don't think he'll ever be the leading striker here. I feel he'll probably be used on the left of 433 and the further most of midfield 3 on special occasions.
 
Wellbeck's talent seems a little underrated by some, he is not a world beater, but he most certainly has the potential to be one in my eyes, just depends how he can kick on in his development.

I mean Diego Costa is 25, who the heck was he 18 months ago? Living in another players shadow, he obviously showed he had the talent before and when called upon he stepped up.

I'm not saying Danny WILL be a world beater, but I think he has shown he has the talent/ability to be one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: golden_blunder
This is a strange thread imo. I'm seeing posters describe a young centre forward who while still developing his game has already tortured Real Madrid for 180 minutes and performed well for England in a major tournament likened to Shola Ameobi and compared unfavourably to Matty Fryatt. Apparently these posters are being realistic and not deluded like those who think he's a good player with potential to get better.
 
I can see him improving under Van Gaal but, with the competition we have in his favoured position, I still don't think he'll get the games he needs up top to really develop into a 20+ goal a season striker.

Welbeck can be an important player for us but I can't see him ever becoming the main man at United.
 
Fergie didnt manage to turn him into a world beater - why would LVG be able to do that? I think it's more that Welbeck reaches his ceiling now and is not going to be a superstar
 
Who wouldn't play in order for Welbeck to get game-time to become a world beater?
 
SteveW said:
This is a strange thread imo. I'm seeing posters describe a young centre forward who while still developing his game has already tortured Real Madrid for 180 minutes and performed well for England in a major tournament likened to Shola Ameobi and compared unfavourably to Matty Fryatt. Apparently these posters are being realistic and not deluded like those who think he's a good player with potential to get better.
Click to expand...
Yep, you're right. The people who liked him to those two players were going well over the top. But likewise, saying he tortured Real Madrid is going over the top too! He was decent in those games, but he wasn't exactly Ronaldo against Ferdinand etc. He was more brought in to do a tactical job than anything else, not like he was bearing down on a panicked Madrid defence at any given opportunity.

There's a balance there in my opinion - he's not terrible, but I don't think he's this budding superstar either.
 
The blind faith people have on here with regards to Welbeck turning into a 20-goal-a-season-Muller-esque player is, quite frankly, deluded and without foundation.
 
SteveW said:
This is a strange thread imo. I'm seeing posters describe a young centre forward who while still developing his game has already tortured Real Madrid for 180 minutes and performed well for England in a major tournament likened to Shola Ameobi and compared unfavourably to Matty Fryatt. Apparently these posters are being realistic and not deluded like those who think he's a good player with potential to get better.
Click to expand...

He really didn't 'torture' them.
 
dirkey said:
Yep, you're right. The people who liked him to those two players were going well over the top. But likewise, saying he tortured Real Madrid is going over the top too! He was decent in those games, but he wasn't exactly Ronaldo against Ferdinand etc. He was more brought in to do a tactical job than anything else, not like he was bearing down on a panicked Madrid defence at any given opportunity.

There's a balance there in my opinion - he's not terrible, but I don't think he's this budding superstar either.
Click to expand...

Robbie Boy said:
Aye, what hyperbolic nonsense. Just like the myth about Anderson 'bossing' Fabregas. Only on the 'Caf. :lol:
Click to expand...

Speak said:
He really didn't 'torture' them.
Click to expand...

Fine. How about he played very well? Can I say that?
 
Escobar said:
Fergie didnt manage to turn him into a world beater - why would LVG be able to do that? I think it's more that Welbeck reaches his ceiling now and is not going to be a superstar
Click to expand...

You expect Ferguson to turn a developing striker into a world beater when he is still developing? As Stevew stated, this is a strange thread with some asanine conclusion.

If anything, Ferguson hampered Welbeck development with the introduction of Van Persie to the team. However, some may see it, the other way that Ferguson is aiding Welbeck in becoming a delantaro (complete forward), by playing him on the wings the season after his breakout campaign. The latter, we will have to find out if Ferguson helped his progression, if Van Gaal deploys him as a false left forward and he become noteworthy in that role.
 
He's almost as good a player now as he's ever going to be IMO and that's no dig at him because he's an excellent squad player. At 23 years of age, surely the term potential has to be cut loose from him though.
 
I don't think his cause is helped by people making hyperbolic claims as to what he can do. He's older now than Andy Carroll was when he moved to Liverpool for the hysterical fee of £35m and the lanky streak of piss had better goal scoring record too. The 'local lad' bias plays a part because everyone agrees he's a decent player an very useful for the squad but if you stripped away his background nobody who didn't have a pencil up their nose and a pair of pants on their head would claim he'd score 20+ a season. Nobody.
 
Amadaeus said:
You expect Ferguson to turn a developing striker into a world beater when he is still developing? As Stevew stated, this is a strange thread with some asanine conclusion.

If anything, Ferguson hampered Welbeck development with the introduction of Van Persie to the team. However, some may see it, the other way that Ferguson is aiding Welbeck in becoming a delantaro (complete forward), by playing him on the wings the season after his breakout campaign. The latter, we will have to find out if Ferguson helped his progression, if Van Gaal deploys him as a false left forward and he become noteworthy in that role.
Click to expand...
Welbeck never showed the potential that other young players did before they became world beaters. As someone else mentioned, sometimes fans are blind. As I mentioned, he is about to reach his best level and wont develop at an incredible rate to a world class level. He's a good squad player nonetheless
 
Wouldn't fans of other clubs here and on the continent scoff at the idea of a player who is nearly 24 being considered as having potential? It just seems like the massive elephant in the room that we ignore the fact that world beaters older than him were better sooner, guys the same age as him have been better for longer and guys younger than him are already better earlier.

The apron strings have to be cut and we have to judge the player based on what he can do rather than what we hope he can do one day when he's about 30.
 
Escobar said:
Welbeck never showed the potential that other young players did before they became world beaters. As someone else mentioned, sometimes fans are blind. As I mentioned, he is about to reach his best level and wont develop at an incredible rate to a world class level. He's a good squad player nonetheless
Click to expand...

You really do not have a clue what you are on about then. Welbeck lead England and United front line at a very young, something most strikers at the age 21 could only dream of. That is evidence enough that he has showed potential. Add to that his brilliant debut against Stoke that was capped of by one of the best strike you will see from a young player illustrated below:



By some of the logic being spread around in here, I would not be surprised if you said that was a lucky hit.

Shark said:
He's almost as good a player now as he's ever going to be IMO and that's no dig at him because he's an excellent squad player. At 23 years of age, surely the term potential has to be cut loose from him though.
Click to expand...

Not a dig at Hernandez, but how do you rate Hernandez? Welbeck has kept Hernandez out of the team for some while and I am pretty sure a majority of Welbeck critic thinks Hernandez is the better player.
 
Last edited:
Welbeck has it all bar the goals. That can come with consistent runs in the team.

He's quick, brave, decent in the air, holds the ball well, good passer and creates space well for others. A LVG type of player. I can see him playing in a front 3
 
golden_blunder said:
Welbeck has it all bar the goals. That can come with consistent runs in the team.

He's quick, brave, decent in the air, holds the ball well, good passer and creates space well for others. A LVG type of player. I can see him playing in a front 3
Click to expand...

Exactly. People keep talking about how LVG likes to play possession football, well in the season just gone Welbeck has a better pass completion % (87.4%) than almost any other attacking player in our squad.

Significantly better than both Rooney (80.1%) and Van Persie (76.7%) and right in between the figures for our supposedly most technical players, Mata (88.9%) and Kagawa (86.8%).

For a player who plays most of his football in the final third, those are great figures and exactly what a manager like Van Gaal will be looking for.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Exactly. People keep talking about how LVG likes to play possession football, well in the season just gone Welbeck has a better pass completion % (87.4%) than almost any other attacking player in our squad.

Significantly better than both Rooney (80.1%) and Van Persie (76.7%) and right in between the figures for our supposedly most technical players, Mata (88.9%) and Kagawa (86.8%).

For a player who plays most of his football in the final third, those are great figures and exactly what a manager like Van Gaal will be looking for.
Click to expand...

He really has to work on his positioning when we are defending. He was down right poor in that respect this season and that is something LVG will not tolerate.
 
Plugsy said:
I don't think his cause is helped by people making hyperbolic claims as to what he can do. He's older now than Andy Carroll was when he moved to Liverpool for the hysterical fee of £35m and the lanky streak of piss had better goal scoring record too. The 'local lad' bias plays a part because everyone agrees he's a decent player an very useful for the squad but if you stripped away his background nobody who didn't have a pencil up their nose and a pair of pants on their head would claim he'd score 20+ a season. Nobody.
Click to expand...
He got 9 goals in 18 starts as a striker last season. Say he becomes first choice striker here (unlikely, I know) or somewhere else, and he starts 40-50 games, then why is it so ridiculous to say that he can get 20 goals?
 
Plugsy said:
I don't think his cause is helped by people making hyperbolic claims as to what he can do. He's older now than Andy Carroll was when he moved to Liverpool for the hysterical fee of £35m and the lanky streak of piss had better goal scoring record too. The 'local lad' bias plays a part because everyone agrees he's a decent player an very useful for the squad but if you stripped away his background nobody who didn't have a pencil up their nose and a pair of pants on their head would claim he'd score 20+ a season. Nobody.
Click to expand...

I don't see what's so inconceivable about 20 a season in all competitions if he played up front every week. That's hardly a hyperbolic claim. He got 9 in the league this season from 15 starts. We've yet to see what he could do if given a consistent run in the side.

I don't see anyone here suggesting he's world class or ever will be. I do see people comparing him to Shola Ameobi, Matty Fryatt and Andy Carroll though which seems a bit mental considering the quality of his all round game and the fact that his goals ratio this season has been decent this season.

If we could just cut out all the pointless exaggerration we could probably have a decent discussion in this thread.
 
Cerpin said:
He got 9 goals in 18 starts as a striker last season. Say he becomes first choice striker here (unlikely, I know) or somewhere else, and he starts 40-50 games, then why is it so ridiculous to say that he can get 20 goals?
Click to expand...

But you can say that about any striker in any of the top division or top two divisions of football in this country.

His goal scoring record these past two seasons is worse than a goal every 6 games. Carroll's is a goal every 4.4 games. If someone suggested Carroll score 25+ goals next season the argument "how do you know he won't?" would be equally as valid.
 
Also surely if there's an area of agreement it's that Welbeck's best utilised as a deep/wide-forward to take advantage of his hold-up play. Given that this is perhaps his main asset why would any manager abandon that to ask him to stay up top and become a goalscorer to get 20+ a season?
 
Plugsy said:
Also surely if there's an area of agreement it's that Welbeck's best utilised as a deep/wide-forward to take advantage of his hold-up play. Given that this is perhaps his main asset why would any manager abandon that to ask him to stay up top and become a goalscorer to get 20+ a season?
Click to expand...

Not an area of agreement I've noticed tbh.

Anyway, if a player is good at hold up play why on earth would you want him to do it in deep, wide areas of the pitch? It's a skill best utilised in and around the box.
 
Plugsy said:
But you can say that about any striker in any of the top division or top two divisions of football in this country.

His goal scoring record these past two seasons is worse than a goal every 6 games. Carroll's is a goal every 4.4 games. If someone suggested Carroll score 25+ goals next season the argument "how do you know he won't?" would be equally as valid.
Click to expand...

How is it relevant to compare Danny's goal-scoring record with a player who always plays up top? These past two seasons Welbeck's played almost half of his starts on the wing. Silly comparison.
 
SteveW said:
I don't see what's so inconceivable about 20 a season in all competitions if he played up front every week. That's hardly a hyperbolic claim. He got 9 in the league this season from 15 starts. We've yet to see what he could do if given a consistent run in the side.

I don't see anyone here suggesting he's world class or ever will be. I do see people comparing him to Shola Ameobi, Matty Fryatt and Andy Carroll though which seems a bit mental considering the quality of his all round game and the fact that his goals ratio this season has been decent this season.

If we could just cut out all the pointless exaggerration we could probably have a decent discussion in this thread.
Click to expand...
Good post. People are going to extremes in both directions trying to make points. Out of interest, how many of his goals came from sub appearances though? I often find stats like that interesting, pointing out that he got 9 goals from only 15 starts, where 5 of his goals could have come off the bench. Those appearances shoudl be recorded too. I agree though, it's not hyperbolic to say he could score 20 alright, if started regularly. I personally feel though, if our side is playing well enough to be getting Danny 20 goals while he starts regularly up front, Robin or Wayne would have 30.
 
dirkey said:
Good post. People are going to extremes in both directions trying to make points. Out of interest, how many of his goals came from sub appearances though? I often find stats like that interesting, pointing out that he got 9 goals from only 15 starts, where 5 of his goals could have come off the bench. Those appearances shoudl be recorded too. I agree though, it's not hyperbolic to say he could score 20 alright, if started regularly. I personally feel though, if our side is playing well enough to be getting Danny 20 goals while he starts regularly up front, Robin or Wayne would have 30.
Click to expand...

That's the key:

If we get to the stage where Welbeck's scoring 20 - imagine what someone else could manage (be it Rooney, Van Persie, or someone else in two/three years).
He's going to mature and iron out his game to some extent. But is he ever going to get to the stage where, say in a Champions League final, he's the man you desperately want the decisive final chance to fall to? I have doubts.

He's a guy who's worth keeping obviously, and seeing how he progresses. At the very least he's a versatile, hard-working player, who can score a few goals a season.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.