Daniel James | Officially Signs

Status
Not open for further replies.
Inigo Montoya said:
Haram makes a god point, however it's up to the team to be efficient and not rely on one player's pace. If we had 3 attackers plus a CM who's also got some pace(Kante) then one player,be it James or whoever, can conserve his pace.

It has been said before by many commentators that Messi at his peak only has around 4 sprints per match. Now he's pretty devastating we know that but Barca had several players with lung bursting energy too so they weren't completely dependent on him.

Now, before people start saying that we're not signing Messi( he's a one off) The point is,the best teams have 6/7 players who have a lot of energy and pace.
Click to expand...
There's a lot of factors involved. It doesn't have to be inefficient depending on the context. There may be huge differences between us and Swansea in
  • How open their games are as against ours
  • How much they play on the counter as opposed to us
  • How much they prioritize his pace as a weapon as opposed to him just being one of our pafey option's
  • Obviously how many sprints he's making and what role he'd play for us
Naturally if it's a hinderence at Swansea as well, and not something they're fine with given how they use him, then he'll have to work on that which is fine given he is 21.
 
Loublaze said:
I simply stated that United haven't had any recent successes signing players from lower leagues, isn't that fair? 20 years is a huge sample. You can go back further if you wish, even beyond the PL era but dont you think recent signings show a clearer picture? I don't care if other clubs have had successes with lower league players, has united? Im not saying its impossible, but history is against it.

The following is a list of 'low risk' player signings from lower leagues comparable to the mooted Daniel James signing the club has signed going back to 1990 (I may be missing some, probably not worth mentioning but enlighten me): Bebe, Obertan, Diouf, Powell, Varela, Buttner, Manucho, Angelo Henriquez, Zoran Tosic, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba, Liam Miller (Came from Celtic, but a similar punt nevertheless), Vanja milinkovic-savic, Lindegaard, Ritchie De Laet, Rodrigo Possebon, Tim Howard, Fangzhuo Dong, Bojan Djordjic, Jonathan Greening, Dion Dublin and Pat McGibbon. I won't mention Bellion because he was signed from a PL club, but similar.

My point is United have had very little success with signings like this
Click to expand...
True. But history is contradicted all the time.
 
Loublaze said:
I simply stated that United haven't had any recent successes signing players from lower leagues, isn't that fair? 20 years is a huge sample. You can go back further if you wish, even beyond the PL era but dont you think recent signings show a clearer picture? I don't care if other clubs have had successes with lower league players, has united? Im not saying its impossible, but history is against it.

The following is a list of 'low risk' player signings from lower leagues comparable to the mooted Daniel James signing the club has made going back to 1990 (I may be missing some, probably not worth mentioning but enlighten me): Bebe, Obertan, Diouf, Powell, Varela, Buttner, Manucho, Angelo Henriquez, Zoran Tosic, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba, Liam Miller (Came from Celtic, but a similar punt nevertheless), Vanja milinkovic-savic, Lindegaard, Ritchie De Laet, Rodrigo Possebon, Tim Howard, Fangzhuo Dong, Bojan Djordjic, Jonathan Greening, Dion Dublin and Pat McGibbon. I won't mention Bellion because he was signed from a PL club, but similar.

My point is United have had very little success with signings like this. Tim Howard is the only standout
Click to expand...

If you include Diouf from Molde then you should also include our current manager. Schmikes came from the Danish league. Ronny Johnsen from the Turkish.
 
Dyslexic Untied said:
If you include Diouf from Molde then you should also include our current manager. Schmikes came from the Danish league. Ronny Johnsen from the Turkish.
Click to expand...

Yes good calls, I forgot to mention Solskjaer I did think of him. None domestic whatsoever though.
 
Last edited:
Loublaze said:
I simply stated that United haven't had any recent successes signing players from lower leagues, isn't that fair? 20 years is a huge sample. You can go back further if you wish, even beyond the PL era but dont you think recent signings show a clearer picture? I don't care if other clubs have had successes with lower league players, has united? Im not saying its impossible, but history is against it.

The following is a list of 'low risk' player signings from lower leagues comparable to the mooted Daniel James signing the club has made going back to 1990 (I may be missing some, probably not worth mentioning but enlighten me): Bebe, Obertan, Diouf, Powell, Varela, Buttner, Manucho, Angelo Henriquez, Zoran Tosic, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba, Liam Miller (Came from Celtic, but a similar punt nevertheless), Vanja milinkovic-savic, Lindegaard, Ritchie De Laet, Rodrigo Possebon, Tim Howard, Fangzhuo Dong, Bojan Djordjic, Jonathan Greening, Dion Dublin and Pat McGibbon. I won't mention Bellion because he was signed from a PL club, but similar.

My point is United have had very little success with signings like this. Tim Howard is the only standout
Click to expand...

If we go back bit further, we have Irwin, Ince, Pallister. Maybe it's way too back.

Anyways if Obertan from French league, Tosic from Serbian league are used then surely low punt signings should include Vidic and Evra who were from Russian and French league and cost around 12 million together?

If Varela is included then surely Hernandez should be included too?

Blind from Ajax, Smalling played in PL for 6 months before ManUtd signed him.

If we are including players like Bojan Djordjic, Greening, Vanja milinkovic-savic who were signed from reserves then we should also include players like Pogba, Pique, Rossi.

If we add Kleberson, Djemba - Djemba then we should also add players like Ronaldo, Solskjaer from Molde, Ronny Johnsen.

There is no criteria that fits everyone. IF we go by history then we wouldn't have signed players like Vidic, Ronaldo, Stam as we never had players from Serbia, Portugal, Netherlands who were amazing for us.

Going by same logic, Liverpool wouldn't have signed Salah as there wasn't any Egyptian player who was world class in PL.

Every player is different, we have to see the strengths and weakness, what role he will play and how he will fit the team rather than going by historical evidence. If we go by historical evidence we should only look for Scottish managers for us to win the league.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Haram makes a god point, however it's up to the team to be efficient and not rely on one player's pace. If we had 3 attackers plus a CM who's also got some pace(Kante) then one player,be it James or whoever, can conserve his pace.

It has been said before by many commentators that Messi at his peak only has around 4 sprints per match. Now he's pretty devastating we know that but Barca had several players with lung bursting energy too so they weren't completely dependent on him.

Now, before people start saying that we're not signing Messi( he's a one off) The point is,the best teams have 6/7 players who have a lot of energy and pace.
Click to expand...

This is a good point, if its once pacy player in team its easy to defend. Just drop off a bit in that area and double up, which cannot be done if there are multiple options especially on both sides of pitch this is one of the reasons united used to have open spaces to run during SAF eras. PLayers who are either very mobile or pacy playing which opens up spaces where ball can be played into. Current setup we have mata, lingard, martial (who even though has pace plays deep waiting for ball than making off the ball last man runs) who is easy to defend for opposition defenders.
 
roonster09 said:
If we go back bit further, we have Irwin, Ince, Pallister. Maybe it's way too back.

Anyways if Obertan from French league, Tosic from Serbian league are used then surely low punt signings should include Vidic and Evra who were from Russian and French league and cost around 12 million together?

If Varela is included then surely Hernandez should be included too?

Blind from Ajax, Smalling played in PL for 6 months before ManUtd signed him.

If we are including players like Bojan Djordjic, Greening, Vanja milinkovic-savic who were signed from reserves then we should also include players like Pogba, Pique, Rossi.

If we add Kleberson, Djemba - Djemba then we should also add players like Ronaldo, Solskjaer from Molde, Ronny Johnsen.

There is no criteria that fits everyone. IF we go by history then we wouldn't have signed players like Vidic, Ronaldo, Stam as we never had players from Serbia, Portugal, Netherlands who were amazing for us.

Going by same logic, Liverpool wouldn't have signed Salah as there wasn't any Egyptian player who was world class in PL.

Every player is different, we have to see the strengths and weakness, what role he will play and how he will fit the team rather than going by historical evidence. If we go by historical evidence we should only look for Scottish managers for us to win the league.
Click to expand...
You're wasting your time. Every time I pop into this thread, he's done another negative post and the criteria/rationale change to suit the argument .... glass half empty doesn't begin to cut it.
 
roonster09 said:
If we go back bit further, we have Irwin, Ince, Pallister. Maybe it's way too back.

Anyways if Obertan from French league, Tosic from Serbian league are used then surely low punt signings should include Vidic and Evra who were from Russian and French league and cost around 12 million together?

If Varela is included then surely Hernandez should be included too?

Blind from Ajax, Smalling played in PL for 6 months before ManUtd signed him.

If we are including players like Bojan Djordjic, Greening, Vanja milinkovic-savic who were signed from reserves then we should also include players like Pogba, Pique, Rossi.

If we add Kleberson, Djemba - Djemba then we should also add players like Ronaldo, Solskjaer from Molde, Ronny Johnsen.

There is no criteria that fits everyone. IF we go by history then we wouldn't have signed players like Vidic, Ronaldo, Stam as we never had players from Serbia, Portugal, Netherlands who were amazing for us.

Going by same logic, Liverpool wouldn't have signed Salah as there wasn't any Egyptian player who was world class in PL.

Every player is different, we have to see the strengths and weakness, what role he will play and how he will fit the team rather than going by historical evidence. If we go by historical evidence we should only look for Scottish managers for us to win the league.
Click to expand...

You make some good points, but wasn't Irwin a late bloomer who already played well over a 100 senior games including some cup finals when United signed him? Ince played top flight football for West Ham before United signed him. United broke a transfer record for Pallister and he already played top flight football. Tosic was an unknown quality really before we signed him. The Bordeaux manager when it comes to Obertan was even surprised United were in him as there were questions about his mentality.

Vidic and Evra were internationals with high profiles, Evra was Monaco captain as well and Vidic had a great campaign in world cup or Euro qualification, I can't remember. He was part of the Serbian famous four backline. Its fair to include Pique, Rossi and Pogba but only one shined for United after being bought back years later. I didn't add Ronaldo because we paid 12M for him and he was one of the most talked about young talents in Europe alongside Quaresma. Solskjaer and Johnsen are fair to add.
 
Last edited:
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
You're wasting your time. Every time I pop into this thread, he's done another negative post and the criteria/rationale change to suit the argument .... glass half empty doesn't begin to cut it.
Click to expand...

Im pessimistic about this signing but he can change my mind if he manages what others before him have failed to do. These debates we'll be revisited next season and perhaps i'll be proven wrong
 
Last edited:
Castia said:
It’s not so much the fee but the position he fills. If he’s a squad player then fine but if he’s the guy we’ve put all our hopes on then I feel we’ll end up disappointed.

A low risk punt he might be but if he’s not ready then we have to wait another 12 months to sign a winger.
Click to expand...

I understand your concerns if we see him as our only solution to be acquired for the right winger position and we end up being stuck. Let's hope there will be another right winger with more experience so we can crop the benefits of hiring raw potential.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
You've watched lots of him? I like that it's a no risk deal but to be a 'bomb' he'd have to be a very good footballer.
Click to expand...

I've only seen a little but I more trust the coaching staff. I see a young fast player that would suit oles counter attacking philosophy very well.

My guess is hes probably a limited player but could be lethal as a super sub or for certain type of games.

I think ole realizes how 1 dimensional our wing play is with center forwards just drifting in
 
Loublaze said:
Im pessimistic about this signing but he can change my mind if he manages what others before him have failed to do. These debates we'll be revisited next season and perhaps i'll be proven wrong
Click to expand...

Thing is you are wrong already. Most on here arent denying he may he a total useless squad occupier but the point is hes worth the punt and it's worth making such transfers
 
shamans said:
Thing is you are wrong already. Most on here arent denying he may he a total useless squad occupier but the point is hes worth the punt and it's worth making such transfers
Click to expand...

Except we haven't had any success with such transfers from lower domestic leagues like i've said already. it could be a waste of time but I don't have a crystal ball. We shall see
 
Loublaze said:
Except we haven't had any success with such transfers from lower domestic leagues like i've said already. it could be a waste of time but I don't have a crystal ball. We shall see
Click to expand...

Roonster sent you a massive post regarding lower league successes but if you're gonna be dismissive then you won't see the positive in it.
 
shamans said:
Roonster sent you a massive post regarding lower league successes but if you're gonna be dismissive then you won't see the positive in it.
Click to expand...

A massive post yes with a few successes from foreign leagues except for Denis Irwin who had over 100 senior appearances. The other two players he mentioned, Ince and Pallister played in the old first division. You're also ignoring my post with a list of similar signings going back to 1990, proving that a large majority of them turn out to be failures
 
Even if every lower league player we'd ever signed was shite, correlation doesn't equal causation. I don't understand why people draw these conclusions.

We've had no luck signing South American players either. It doesn't mean that there's something in the Manchester air that would cause Messi to suddenly forget how to kick a ball because he was born somewhere south of Caracas.
 
Ole had a dream
To build a football team
Ed has money to sign the players we neeeed
We play from the back
With James in attack
We’re Man United
We’re on our way back
 
V.O. said:
Even if every lower league player we'd ever signed was shite, correlation doesn't equal causation. I don't understand why people draw these conclusions.

We've had no luck signing South American players either. It doesn't mean that there's something in the Manchester air that would cause Messi to suddenly forget how to kick a ball because he was born somewhere south of Caracas.
Click to expand...

Although this wouldnt be a suprise if it actually happened.
 
my guess is this guy will be our first signing - for better or (probably) worse
 
mitchmouse said:
my guess is this guy will be our first signing - for better or (probably) worse
Click to expand...
If we sign him as a squad player, and then a main right winger like Sancho, that means we'll never see Lingard on the right wing again, so it's definitely for the better!
 
luke511 said:
If we sign him as a squad player, and then a main right winger like Sancho, that means we'll never see Lingard on the right wing again, so it's definitely for the better!
Click to expand...
you and me is a better bet than Jesse! I definitely take this guy under your conditions!
 
luke511 said:
If we sign him as a squad player, and then a main right winger like Sancho, that means we'll never see Lingard on the right wing again, so it's definitely for the better!
Click to expand...

I think that's wishful thinking unfortunately, If we sign him, it's probably and good indication that we won't sign Sancho, or any other right winger for that matter.
 
Beaucoup said:
I think that's wishful thinking unfortunately, If we sign him, it's probably and good indication that we won't sign Sancho, or any other right winger for that matter.
Click to expand...

Doubt that
 
Dante said:
Is the tag in the thread title still the latest news?

(viz. Are SSN still reporting we're close?)
Click to expand...
I don't think there has been an update, I like the idea that they report were still close just kind of hovering in a slightly creepy way.

I guess Swansea have quite a lot to deal with at the mo with Brighton trying to nab their manager. Plus we don't have the best reputation for acting quickly to secure our targets.
 
Nice video. Seems to definitely be enough about the rest of his game that it’s not ALL pace. His speed is extraordinary though.
 
From that video I feel he would be better on the right
 
Adamsk7 said:
Nice video. Seems to definitely be enough about the rest of his game that it’s not ALL pace. His speed is extraordinary though.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Despite some doom and gloom merchants dissing pace or Championship buys.

Theres obviously improvements he can make with final ball but there's also a good mix of good passes and crosses (plus the odd goal) there too.

Good to see that he's brave too, goes for a lot of balls when opponents sliding in. Think it was a Leeds player that tried to kneecap him around 50+ seconds in :nono: and got dinked :)


il_340x270.1792518971_hzcf.jpg
 
He is rapid like really rapid. Definitely will give us another dimension on the counter. The good thing about him is he has good movement off the ball and isn't afraid to play one twos, which apparently most of our players are afraid to do.
Will be a shrewd signing.
 
Loublaze said:
I simply stated that United haven't had any recent successes signing players from lower leagues, isn't that fair? 20 years is a huge sample. You can go back further if you wish, even beyond the PL era but dont you think recent signings show a clearer picture? I don't care if other clubs have had successes with lower league players, has united? Im not saying its impossible, but history is against it.

The following is a list of 'low risk' player signings from lower leagues comparable to the mooted Daniel James signing the club has made going back to 1990 (I may be missing some, probably not worth mentioning but enlighten me): Bebe, Obertan, Diouf, Powell, Varela, Buttner, Manucho, Angelo Henriquez, Zoran Tosic, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba, Liam Miller (Came from Celtic, but a similar punt nevertheless), Vanja milinkovic-savic, Lindegaard, Ritchie De Laet, Rodrigo Possebon, Tim Howard, Fangzhuo Dong, Bojan Djordjic, Jonathan Greening, Dion Dublin and Pat McGibbon. I won't mention Bellion because he was signed from a PL club, but similar.

My point is United have had very little success with signings like this. Tim Howard is the only standout
Click to expand...

Mate you do realise that in the last 20 years the only players we have signed from lower league clubs are Powell 6M from Crewe, Roy Carroll from Wigan (not sure if they were Prem at the time), Luke Steele for 300k and maybe Phil Jones (again not sure if they were Prem or Championship at the time) so this post has literally no meaning.

You can't say we have not had any recent success signing from lower leagues when we haven't signed anyone!
 
Loublaze said:
Except we haven't had any success with such transfers from lower domestic leagues like i've said already. it could be a waste of time but I don't have a crystal ball. We shall see
Click to expand...
And we haven’t had great success buying “stars” either so at least we are going to try and stick to the Manchester United tradition of giving young players a platform. We should never lose sight of what the club is or we turn into a soulless entity.

Btw you forgot Lee Sharpe, Raimond VanDerGouw, kanchelskis, amongst others
 
This whole "buying from lower leagues" is such an elitist BS attitude.

Stars have to start somewhere. Most of them at lower level clubs and then get snapped up. We'd just be jumping the queue for once.

People keep moaning our scouts do nothing, but then moan when we sign an unknown player :lol:
 
Loublaze said:
Except we haven't had any success with such transfers from lower domestic leagues like i've said already. it could be a waste of time but I don't have a crystal ball. We shall see
Click to expand...
To be honest we’ve hardly had any success transfers of any kind of over the last decade only realy De Gea has been a good long term signing.
 
Adam-Utd said:
This whole "buying from lower leagues" is such an elitist BS attitude.

Stars have to start somewhere. Most of them at lower level clubs and then get snapped up. We'd just be jumping the queue for once.

People keep moaning our scouts do nothing, but then moan when we sign an unknown player :lol:
Click to expand...

Not to mention, many players at a young age spend time at lower leagues, be it full time or on loan spells where they may or may not stand out much. Sadio Mane was playing in Ligue 2 at the age of 20 where he scored just one goal in the entire season. A solid coaching staff can do wonders with players who have some sort of raw skill.
 
RedCurry said:
Not to mention, many players at a young age spend time at lower leagues, be it full time or on loan spells where they may or may not stand out much. Sadio Mane was playing in Ligue 2 at the age of 20 where he scored just one goal in the entire season. A solid coaching staff can do wonders with players who have some sort of raw skill.
Click to expand...
Exactly. You can't watch this kid and NOT be excited, that sheer pace he has is an absolute weapon if honed correctly. You can be the best defender in the world but if a guy is just 5x faster than you, there's nothing you can do but foul.

His ability to drive us up the pitch in counter attacks would be huge. We haven't had that since Ronaldo/Rooney.
 
The Championship standard of 2019 is very high imo. Picking a player who is proficient at that level with raw talent would not be a disaster.

Spurs have courted Grealish. Harry Maguire has played at Championship and League 1. Demarai Gray has done 3 seasons in the Championship. Vardy played through the leagues. Kane had numerous loans in the leagues.

As others have said, we are in no position to turn our noses because a player is not experienced in the PL. It is the job of our coaches to bring them up to speed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.