He is a lot closer to be best in class than the guys left who haven't done the job
Dan "The Gardener" Ashworth Has Left | Venit, vidit, non vicit
- Thread starter Berbaclass
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He is a lot closer to be best in class than the guys left who haven't done the job
If its true that part of why he got fired is because he cautioned against matching this squad with a system coach then that says a lot.
Probably a controversial take but heads need to roll over the Amorim appointment and that means berrada. He doesn't need to be sacked but we need to make it clear to him his job isn't picking managers. He stuck his neck out and is making the worst possible decisions.
If it's true that he wanted ETH to stay then he is completely responsible for the shit we're in. Granted he may have correctly called Amorim being a poor short term solution but sticking with ETH has been so damaging to this club.
That's fair. Although looking at where we are now I wonder if Ten Hag wouldn't have gotten better results than Amorim. We all thought it couldn't get worse. It has gotten worse.
That’s just stating the obvious though, just repeat the cycle get another pragmatic manager in is always going to be the safest bet. If the club wanted to actually break the cycle, dismantle the team etc, then you have to bite the bullet at some point and sooner you get on with it the better.
He probably pulled a Rangnick and told the board that the club needed a full rebuild and once again he was met with 'nah not happening, can't afford it mate see ya'.
Not always. Real Madrid has never had a system coach. Most successful club in history.
At some point people started to believe that to beat Guardiola you had to become Guardiola. That's not how Florentino Perez approached the problem.
But Madrid by and large always have exceptional players, if you have that you don’t need a system coach. We’re not Madrid, not even close, we don’t have their players or their means to go and get them.
I just don’t see this alleged warning as some sort of badge of honour for Ashworth, it’s obvious and it’s clearly not along the lines of what the club wanted.
Prepare for an article to surface in next few days with this general tone.
‘Sources who spoke on condition of anonymity reveal that Ashworth and Berrada’s relationship reached an impasse with Ashworth a vocal critic of Amorim’s style and lack of experience in a top league. Whilst things remained cordial between them, the break down in trust was deemed irreparable’
‘Sources who spoke on condition of anonymity reveal that Ashworth and Berrada’s relationship reached an impasse with Ashworth a vocal critic of Amorim’s style and lack of experience in a top league. Whilst things remained cordial between them, the break down in trust was deemed irreparable’
I am just making the point that deciding to tear up the squad in pursuit of Amorim's ideals is no more a guarantee of success than finding another Carlo Ancelotti who adapts to what he's got instead of forcing 343 on players who don't suit it.
ETH was in his last year of his contract. You know that the club has psr issues, the manager who you no longer think is the right manager will be gone in 7/8 months. It made complete sense to let Ten Hag see out this season, thank him for the 2 trophies at the end of it, send him on his way and start fresh with a new manager from next summer. Especially as he had a record of getting the club european football. The real damage to the club has been the amount of money wasted in this whole ordeal by renewing Ten Hag, sacking him, sacking Ashworth and paying out Amorim.
The players didn’t suit 4-2-3-1 either, why would the plan be to find a manager to adapt to players who aren’t that good. That’s why all this love for Ashworth makes no sense.
Very few players are specialists in a 3-4-3, good players can adapt. If we recruit more players like Amad we’ll be fine, he can play multiple positions in different formations. If we try to adapt to players like Casemiro who can’t run or Rashford who won’t then that’s just repeating our usual cycle.
They seemed to suit 4231 fine when Ruud was playing it. What they didn't suit was Ten Hag's experiment with ultra transition football, 1 number 6 and 2 10s.
Casemiro looked geriatric under Ten Hag, just like he does under Amorim. But in a double pivot next to Ugarte he looked alright. Funny that. We also seemed to have a cohesive attack with Bruno able to play ahead of two defensive midfielders, instead of whatever the hell Ten Hag and Amorim have done with him.
The idea that no other manager could do better than Ten Hag or Amorim just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Not sure what is your point here. Ashworth can not speak openly under conditionds of his pay-off. There also hasnt been any briefs from his side via friendly media about his (short) spell at United. Its Ineos, Berrada and co. leaking sh*te about Ashworth since his dismissal. Who has more clue how to run the club than Berrada, Wilcox, Brailsford and Jimmy Brexit combined.
He was wasting huge amounts of resources and taking us backwards. The right decision was to sack him, the wrong decision was to stick with him for as long as we did especially in the Summer. Should have been a clean slate with a new INEOS chosen Manager with a transfer kitty or prefably sacked December 23 when we'd already suffered 12 months of awful League form. Amorim is just the unfortunate victim of INEOS' poor planning and the piss poor squad building in the past decade.
To stick the knife in we actually removed 2 attacking options from an already severely depleted group of players and brought not a single replacement in. Utter, utter shitshow.
That the media will make something up to allow them attack Amorim.
Ashworth wasn’t at the club whilst Brailsford was out in Ibiza meeting with ETH and then interviewing potential candidates nor was Ashworth at the club when Brailsford decided to keep ETH either, Brailsford pushed to keep ETH and give him a new contract as a sign of support and ETH signed the contract three days after Ashworth arrived.
It’s well known Ashworth wanted Howe or Frank after ETH was fired whilst Brailsford wanted Southgate and Berrada wanted Amorim, in Ratcliffe’s OWN WORDS he said that Ashworth was in charge of the footballing department and Ashworth was happy to go with RVN or even Potter as an interim until the end of the season if Howe or Frank were not available.
There were lots of reports that Ashworth was very much against bringing Amorim in due to Amorim being married to his system and us not having the players to play it nor the money to bring players in to play it but Berrada pulled rank even though he’s the CEO and specialises in commercial deals and sponsorship deals and had no right making footballing decisions over Ashworth seeing as Ashworth was in charge of the footballing department.
I don’t blame Amorim as he’s been open from the start that he will play his system until the very end and he won’t tweak it but I do blame Ratcliffe, Brailsford and Berrada as they are CEO’s/directors and NOT qualified in the fecking slightest to make footballing decisions yet completely overruled Ashworth and effectively stripped him of any of job role other than in name.
The only guy that knew ball in this club and he got sacked. Probably because he knew ball. These others don't inspire confidence whatsoever.
I also don't believe in the propaganda that he wanted Southgate or kept Ten Hag.
I also don't believe in the propaganda that he wanted Southgate or kept Ten Hag.
4 2 3 1 is probably the best formation to get the most out of the type of players we have. For starters it would put Bruno and Garnacho in their best positions. Our CBs would be more comfortable etc Although I think it would be a bit regressive to go back to it permanently.
The majority of players who play a 3 4 3 were/are not specialists in that formation. They were coached to play there with the manager who played it.
Why would that be true though. It's just a reason we're making up, when the real reason is well publicized - he resisted Ratcliffe's call for job cuts in the football department and got fired for it.
The idea that Ashworth would have had a problem with tweaking the squad for Amorim is completely unfounded.
First of all, because Ashworth has mostly worked alongside managers who utilized some sort of 3-4-2-1 or 3-5-2 - Southgate at the FA and Potter at Brighton - so the idea he's averse to the 'system' is nonsense.
Second of all, it's a myth that the squad has to be completely rebuild to play a 3-4-2-1. If the squad has to be rebuild to an extent, that is beause it is patchy and devoid of quality due to years of dysfunctional squad building so it has to happen anyway regardless of manager. The player material you need for a 3-4-2-1 is not at all vastly different to a 4-2-3-1, it's basically just a slight tilt of the formation.
Where did you get that from? Doesn’t add up to me, considering the teams at Newcastle and Brighton I imagine were far smaller.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5978018/2024/12/08/dan-ashworth-manchester-united-exit-reasons/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...director-leaves-just-FIVE-MONTHS-joining.html
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/61...-ideal-ruben-amorim-striker/?source=twitteruk
It appears in multiple reportings. And given Ratcliffe's single-mindedness, or monomania, on job cuts as the pertinent central policy of his United tenure it is weird that the aspect is overlooked. If we're looking for an answer to Ashworth's surprise sacking, it is right there.
Dan Ashworth wanted Thomas Frank to replace Erik ten Hag as Man United manager
However, Chief Executive Omar Berrada pushed for Amorim and ultimately got his way.
https://thepeoplesperson.com/2025/0...ce-erik-ten-hag-as-man-united-manager-290974/
However, Chief Executive Omar Berrada pushed for Amorim and ultimately got his way.
https://thepeoplesperson.com/2025/0...ce-erik-ten-hag-as-man-united-manager-290974/
I doubt things would have gone much differently for Frank other than being less married to a system.
We wouldn't be 15th with Ten Hag in charge. We'd be 7th/8th which would probably mean some form of European qualification.
Now, whether we need to go through short term pain for longer term gain is another question.
We were 14th in the league when Ten Hag got sacked, and on our way out of the Europa League. Statistically we should have finished 14th last season under Ten Hag. So on what basis do you believe we would have finished 7th or 8th? We were a sinking ship from day 1 this season, this isn't something new.
I have to wonder whether some of these people were actually watching any of the games this season
I think that's exactly the reason he pushed for Frank and against Amorim
Especially when money is an issue. In our case being opportunistic would serves us better than being dogmatic and to capitalize on unforeseen opportunities you need to be flexible.
He could've easily been another David Moyes.
Why have United gone for a manager who hasn't won anything? What are his European credentials etc?
The point was about being less married to a system and not about Frank.
You could well be onto something right there
Thomas Frank has transferred Brentford from a Championship team to a solid PL team with one of the lowest budgets in the league. He has developed players like Raya, Toney, Mbeumo, Nørgaard or had the patience and the insight to bring Damsgaard back from the lost causes. Frank would have been the better option for me, and this is not hindsight. I like Amorims Sporting very much.
Don't think Frank would have made a lick of difference ultimately. Maybe we have a few extra points but he's not suddenly making that group of attackers lethal in the final third, nor is he turning the midfield options into a group bursting with pace and athleticism/technicality.
Yeah I can't help feeling that we needed to get the squad in order first before appointing Ruben. Unfortunately INEOS thought they knew better and sacked Ashworth for having more sense.
Keeping him any longer would've been a disaster. Ten Hag had proven ten times over that he had to go and the sentiment around everything at the club would be so much more toxic if he were still here.
The mistake that was made was not getting rid after last year's cup final. It was clear he had reached the end of his time here and it would've given us the summer (and the resources that were largely wasted in the window) to put towards a new manager. Instead, the extension clause was activated, his rot set in even further and his pay off was even bigger. It was monumentally stupid.
We sneered at the prospect of Southgate and Frank but looks like Ashworth knew what Berrada didn’t, and his removal is looking increasingly foolish by the day. Surely they can’t have done any worse without being glued to a system, and not requiring a complete upheaval.
No doubt the next manager will want to do the same.
What a shambolically run club we are.
No doubt the next manager will want to do the same.
What a shambolically run club we are.
Both would struggle in our dysfunction. Logic dictates you sign the one that’s won titles and managed in Europe.
This team is the best I’ve ever seen when it comes to
- Publicized drama (CR7 and Rashford)
- Dressing room leaks
- Sitting out lucrative contracts while under performing (Casa, Sancho)
- Playing “their own style” vs to the managers instructions (cough cough Bruno and Casa)
- Apologizing on Instagram after another mediocre performance (quality and effort)
All this before you factor in the reality that we can’t spend, our teams very un-athletic, and we don’t have goal scorers in a game that’s won by scoring goals.
We would be 14th instead. 14th in stats in 23/24 and he left us in 14th when he got sacked.