[Dr Pavel]

Why should Valencia - our right back - be touch tight with their left back?

Because they were playing with no wingers. Rashford was cutting off the angle for Cahill to pass to the left back. Hazard I think was closely marked inside. So why was Valencia so far away from the left back? Why was he not cutting off the obvious wall pass?

He does literally nothing wrong in this sequence of play.

LOL letting the pass that started everything comes in when it was 100% preventable and he does nothing wrong?

Even if he can't see the ball, he should know where his man is, and if he see's his man making the run - Unless he's playing offside (which he obviously isn't) there is no reason why he shouldn't be able to match the run. If he gets outpaced by Pedro, that's different, but that's not what happens here... Pedro steals a yard on Blind because Blind is slow to react to his run.

You want him to turn his body to face the player he's marking and not look at the ball?

 

[Lawman]

Each and every random point you've critiqued about what I've said I've validated, when I've asked you to do the same you've ignored it entirely, instead concentrating on my post count! Oh look, yet again he's failed to elaborate on a another one of his posts. How does criticising a player exonerate him from said criticism?

Let's review. I've questioned Lawman assertion that Blind makes two to four mistakes every game. You've then harked in that I defend Blind regardless of how he plays. I've proved this isn't the case, mentioning my previous criticism of this very performance and that I have said I'd prefer Shaw to start over him at left back.

Undeterred, you've then said that I only criticise the player to exonerate him, which makes absolutely no sense, I've asked you to explain this and, guess what? You've refused. I've mentioned that my defense of Blind on this occasion was purely in relation to Lawman assertion that he makes 2 to 4 mistakes a game, I've asked if you disagree with this which you have flatly refused to answer, confirming my suspicions that you agree it's a nonsense statement, instead now targeting the amount of posts I make in a thread as proof of my bias.

Yeah, I'm the one that's cracking!!

My initial post was he makes mistakes then after you started I then posted he make 2-4 mistakes a game. These are not always leading to goals but a few of them lately have. He made 2 mistakes within 30 seconds yesterday (switching off then not going with the runner) he made another glaring one later on, he also made mistakes versus pool that nearly cost us. Stoke he was at part fault for the goal. City he was at fault for two of them. It is a catalog of errors with this guy, yes he's nice and composed on the ball but defensively in my opinion he's a mistake waiting to happen.

 

[Dr Pavel]

Obviously it's impossible to tell

it's safe to say Pedro would have had a one on one opportunity.

So which 1 is it?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Because they were playing with no wingers. Rashford was cutting off the angle for Cahill to pass to the left back. Hazard I think was closely marked inside. So why was Valencia so far away from the left back? Why was he not cutting off the obvious wall pass?

LOL letting the pass that started everything comes in when it was 100% preventable and he does nothing wrong?

You want him to turn his body to face the player he's marking and not look at the ball?

As a right back, your starting position is in line with your centre backs. That's fairly obvious. Valencias starts the game in line with his defense... as play progress, he doesn't move out of defense because he has no need to. He is not man marking the left wingback, that would be daft. As play builds, you can see Rashford is occupying the wing back anyway (which, was literally the job for him and Lingard - to pick up their wingbacks) - so Valencia again has no need to push up onto the wingback. As Cahil has the ball, Rashford moves away from the wing-back to close down Cahill... at this point Valencia immediately moves towards the left wing back. However, the wingback plays a first time ball so unless Valencia was a) man marking him or b) the fastest man who ever lived, he has literally zero chance in cutting that pass out. Not only that, but even if he had been tight, he probably wouldn't have cut out the pass as again - it's first time and it's high and across the pitch... cutting out that pass would make Antonio Valencia a mind-reader... and thus he's wasted as a professional footballer.

Valencia does absolutely nothing wrong, and I urge you to find one other poster who would agree with that sentiment. In fact, go into the Valencia thread right now, and find anyone who would agree that he's at fault for the first goal... actually, I'll do it.

As for Blind, you have to be aware of where the man your marking is and where the ball is... that's obvious. The fact that your aportion Valencia with more blame then Blind for this goal, and then question whether a defender can be aware of where the man he's marking is and where the ball is at the sametime, makes me question why i'm even bothering to spend time writing this.

So which 1 is it?

It's impossible to know for sure, but you can take a guess... don't be a smart arse.

 

[ivaldo]

My initial post was he makes mistakes then after you started I then posted he make 2-4 mistakes a game. These are not always leading to goals but a few of them lately have. He made 2 mistakes within 30 seconds yesterday (switching off then not going with the runner) he made another glaring one later on, he also made mistakes versus pool that nearly cost us. Stoke he was at part fault for the goal. City he was at fault for two of them. It is a catalog of errors with this guy, yes he's nice and composed on the ball but defensively in my opinion he's a mistake waiting to happen.

Ok dude, fair enough, we will leave it there, agree to disagree

 

[Dr Pavel]

As a right back, your starting position is in line with your centre backs. That's fairly obvious. Valencias starts the game in line with his defense... as play progress, he doesn't move out of defense because he has no need to. He is not man marking the left wingback, that would be daft. As play builds, you can see Rashford is occupying the wing back anyway (which, was literally the job for him and Lingard - to pick up their wingbacks) - so Valencia again has no need to push up onto the wingback.

That's why Chelsea dominated the first half. There's always a player free. It was the same with Blind on the other side. Many times I saw him confused not knowing if he should come out to press or not. The team did not seem well prepared. Which is strange for Mourinho.

However, the wingback plays a first time ball so unless Valencia was a) man marking him or b) the fastest man who ever lived, he has literally zero chance in cutting that pass out. Not only that, but even if he had been tight, he probably wouldn't have cut out the pass as again - it's first time and it's high and across the pitch... cutting out that pass would make Antonio Valencia a mind-reader... and thus he's wasted as a professional footballer.

You don't need to be a mind reader to play football. That's a myth. You just have to see there's a 3v2 situation in front of you, and you have the chance to make it 3v3. If you're close enough, even if the opponent did manage to pass the ball, it would be much less accurate and dangerous.

Valencia does absolutely nothing wrong, and I urge you to find one other poster who would agree with that sentiment. In fact, go into the Valencia thread right now, and find anyone who would agree that he's at fault for the first goal... actually, I'll do it.

Okay.

then question whether a defender can be aware of where the man he's marking is and where the ball is at the sametime

You literally can't do this. You can turn your head, you will still be half a second behind. Then how do you catch him? What if you start at the same time and yet he's still faster than you? Do you have to be a mind reader and start running even before he does?

It's impossible to know for sure, but you can take a guess... don't be a smart arse.

LOL if it's impossible to tell that it can't be safe to say is it? You're just guessing. My guess is Pedro will trip if De Gea doesn't come out.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

That's why Chelsea dominated the first half. There's always a player free. It was the same with Blind on the other side. Many times I saw him confused not knowing if he should come out to press or not. The team did not seem well prepared. Which is strange for Mourinho.

You don't need to be a mind reader to play football. That's a myth. You just have to see there's a 3v2 situation in front of you, and you have the chance to make it 3v3. If you're close enough, even if the opponent did manage to pass the ball, it would be much less accurate and dangerous.

Okay.

You literally can't do this. You can turn your head, you will still be half a second behind. Then how do you catch him? What if you start at the same time and yet he's still faster than you? Do you have to be a mind reader and start running even before he does?

LOL if it's impossible to tell that it can't be safe to say is it? You're just guessing. My guess is Pedro will trip if De Gea doesn't come out.

I'm out. I think aportioning any blame to Valencia for the first goal is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on on this forum, and demonstrates a complete lack of basic football knowledge... and that is further compounded by the idea that defenders are unable to know where both ball and man are at any given point, which is such a basic fundemental of football that arguing against it is just a waste of everyones time.

Finally, it is impossible to tell the future... but we can all take a look at any situation and guess what might occur. It's impossible to know what would have happened in the game had David Luiz been sent off... it's however highly likely that we wouldn't have lost by as bigger margin as we did.

 

[Dr Pavel]

I'm out. I think aportioning any blame to Valencia for the first goal is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on on this forum, and demonstrates a complete lack of basic football knowledge... and that is further compounded by the idea that defenders are unable to know where both ball and man are at any given point, which is such a basic fundemental of football that arguing against it is just a waste of everyones time.

I would urge you to share this great knowledge with everyone here who I'm sure 99% has never been coach professionally in any sports. Obviously basic knowledge is not so basic to us.

 

[Cheesy]

Anyone arguing Blind should be sold is overreacting (he's a very useful utility player who's competent in three different roles sometimes), but the idea that him being our best defender since he came here is somehow a vindication of his meddling defensive ability is laughable...since the only remote competition in that department is Smalling.

I like him, but the argument that these poor performances are one-off, occasional occurrences is laughable. It happens regularly...and it's always in big, important games where we're put under pressure, and he's up against a quick side, a quick player, or a strong player. That's the second time this season...he wasn't quite this bad against City, but had a certain culpability in their goals. I remember him making an error against Chelsea last season that cost us a goal. I remember him playing poorly in at least one CL game...and it could be more. That's about four or five off the top of my head...and, again, it's all big games in which we're put under pressure. Someone pointed out yesterday that he struggles when the ball is played in behind him and it's very accurate.

He's a very useful player who should be used as a more technical but less physical John O'Shea of sorts, since he's able to fill in the same positions. He should primarily be reserved for games against teams we'll control the game against though, and only played in bigger games if we don't have another option. He's not always awful, by any means, but these performances in this type of fixture are nothing new.

 

[JeffBoomTetris]

I am undecided on Blind. He is definitely a good footballer but my... was he shocking against Chelsea.

He has bad positioning when defending at LB but better than even Shaw when attacking. Same with CB. Best one on the ball and starts good plays. But he makes errors in playing the offside trap.

Is there a chance to try him in his 1st position with us? Central defensive midfield. With his passing ability, he should be playing higher up the pitch.

 

[VP89]

I like him, but the argument that these poor performances are one-off, occasional occurrences is laughable. It happens regularly...and it's always in big, important games where we're put under pressure, and he's up against a quick side, a quick player, or a strong player. That's the second time this season...he wasn't quite this bad against City, but had a certain culpability in their goals.

Where else did he faulter in big games? Individual error against City is all I can think of. His performance against Chelsea wasn't anywhere near as bad as Smallings. Blind played extremely well in most our big games (Liverpool included). Picking two out of the 5-6 he's played in doesn't make it frequent enough to make such a generalisation.

 

[Cheesy]

Where else did he faulter in big games? Individual error against City is all I can think of. His performance against Chelsea wasn't anywhere near as bad as Smallings. Blind played extremely well in most our big games (Liverpool included). Picking two out of the 5-6 he's played in doesn't make it frequent enough to make such a generalisation.

I highlighted a number from last season. This is nothing new...got discussed a lot back then.

 

[prath92]

I highlighted a number from last season. This is nothing new...got discussed a lot back then.

Last year he was good in most games though. The Spurs away the Watford home and west ham away games.game is the only one I can think of where he was very bad. That's nothing though. Even 80% good games over a season is pretty good rate and having played 56 games or so, he certainly hasn't had more than 8 or 9 bad games and the actual number can't be more than that.

 

[VP89]

I highlighted a number from last season. This is nothing new...got discussed a lot back then.

You're arbitrarily saying "I remember one CL game, one error in the Chelsea fixture last season". Its quite a subjective view and not exactly much to go by.

I don't like this concept that a solid centre back is error free for the entire season, inclusive of all games and circumstances (regardless of whether his defensive counterparts are chopped and changed). I'm certain top level defenders made 4-5 errors last season too - so what exactly is your point regarding Blind? He had many, many good games at the back for us which far outweighed the faculties.

Not just with respect to Blind, but our defence in general, we are quiet when they do a great job and quick to pounce on them/write them off when they make an error. It shouldn't be how it goes at all. We let in a goal after 30 seconds (which was more Smalling's fault than Blind) and played far too deep. Blind was rattled and so was the team - it was uncharacteristic all round. Smalling made about as many errors yesterday as Blind did all season last year.

Lets cut him and the rest of the back 4 some slack and take it as a bad day in the office. In Blind's case we also have to remember he's bouncing around from CB to LB and isn't ideal.

 

[Lawman]

I would urge you to share this great knowledge with everyone here who I'm sure 99% has never been coach professionally in any sports. Obviously basic knowledge is not so basic to us.

I would urge you not to share your knowledge with anyone on this one Dr Pavel. Think you should listen to annihilate now he is clearly trying to tell you how the situation should have played out but you are coming over as a smart ass with opinions on defending that demonstrate a complete lack of understanding. Sorry to be so Frank but I'm done with this thread. So instead of being a sarcastic and try to throw it out there I'd try and learn from him if I was you. I'd happily go into your points for you but your tone dissuades any discussion.

 

[Lawman]

Where else did he faulter in big games? Individual error against City is all I can think of. His performance against Chelsea wasn't anywhere near as bad as Smallings. Blind played extremely well in most our big games (Liverpool included). Picking two out of the 5-6 he's played in doesn't make it frequent enough to make such a generalisation.

Yep Smalling had a nightmare and was involved in every goal conceded but that's one game where as the point I think Cheesy is making is with Blind it's a very regular occurance rather than an off day like Smalling. That is far more of a problem.

 

[11101]

You don't need to be a mind reader to play football. That's a myth. You just have to see there's a 3v2 situation in front of you, and you have the chance to make it 3v3. If you're close enough, even if the opponent did manage to pass the ball, it would be much less accurate and dangerous.

Okay.

You literally can't do this. You can turn your head, you will still be half a second behind. Then how do you catch him? What if you start at the same time and yet he's still faster than you? Do you have to be a mind reader and start running even before he does?

Valencia is nothing to do with the goal. His job is to push up if they settle with the ball but to push up before the ball is received is asking for them to run in behind him.

Blind's first priority as a defender is to know where his man is, then where the ball is. If he has his man tightly marked he has no danger, regardless of where the ball goes. But great players will wait for you to turn your head or make your decision on where to move before they make theirs. Pedro times it perfectly and got the yard he needed on Blind. That's Blind's fault but frankly it happens and should not lead to a goal on it's own. Smalling as the free man should have reacted to intercept the ball and cut the chance out with ease, but he hesitated and Pedro got in.

 

[VP89]

Yep Smalling had a nightmare and was involved in every goal conceded but that's one game where as the point I think Cheesy is making is with Blind it's a very regular occurance rather than an off day like Smalling. That is far more of a problem.

But it's not anywhere near as regular as he claims.

 

[Dr Pavel]

I would urge you not to share your knowledge with anyone on this one Dr Pavel. Think you should listen to annihilate now he is clearly trying to tell you how the situation should have played out but you are coming over as a smart ass with opinions on defending that demonstrate a complete lack of understanding. Sorry to be so Frank but I'm done with this thread. So instead of being a sarcastic and try to throw it out there I'd try and learn from him if I was you. I'd happily go into your points for you but your tone dissuades any discussion.

Either you explain yourself or you don't. Quit whining.

Valencia is nothing to do with the goal. His job is to push up if they settle with the ball but to push up before the ball is received is asking for them to run in behind him.

I simply disagree with you. Valencia is partly responsible for the goal because he had the opportunity to prevent it but did not. Either because he wanted to play it safe, or because it was the manager's instructions. But the pass would not have been made had Valencia been standing 5 yards up the pitch.

Blind's first priority as a defender is to know where his man is, then where the ball is. If he has his man tightly marked he has no danger, regardless of where the ball goes. But great players will wait for you to turn your head or make your decision on where to move before they make theirs. Pedro times it perfectly and got the yard he needed on Blind. That's Blind's fault but frankly it happens and should not lead to a goal on it's own. Smalling as the free man should have reacted to intercept the ball and cut the chance out with ease, but he hesitated and Pedro got in.

Yeah basically you literally cannot look in 2 directions at the same time. Blind's job was much harder than either Valencia's, Smalling's, or De Gea's. Yet they all fecked up much more spectularly than he did.

All IMO of course. Before anyone gets upset.

 

[Skills]

Dreadful excuse for a footballer. Said it before and I'll say it again, O'shea was much, much better.

 

[Lawman]

Either you explain yourself or you don't. Quit whining.

you should try stop talking rubbish about defending and listen when other posters like annihilate now are talking sense.

 

[kundalini]

Another player who had a very poor first half but recovered well in the 2nd half. Sometimes his reflex reaction seems to be to press up the pitch even when it's the last thing we need in that situation. In truth, a bit lucky that City made a complete mess of several promising situations after Blind errors. Distribution didn't compare well with Rojo's either.

 

[Devil may care]

Not sure if playing as the RCB was the issue but his passing at times tonight was sloppy, but overall he grew into the game well.

 

[podurban2]

Dreadful excuse for a footballer. Said it before and I'll say it again, O'shea was much, much better.

Jesus Christ, are you serious?

 

[Ban]

Jesus Christ, are you serious?

He probably is.

 

[donkeyfish]

Sometimes his reflex reaction seems to be to press up the pitch even when it's the last thing we need in that situation. In truth, a bit lucky that City made a complete mess of several promising situations after Blind errors. Distribution didn't compare well with Rojo's either.

Agree with both. Think the first one is habit. Ajax does it and LvG does it. A very "total football" approach to step up as CB.

Especially the one were Iheanaco was caught offside was a terrible mispass. Could've been the scapegoat once again. As is common, 99% is great but he has a couple of howlers.

 

[Tiber]

He will be more than fine filling in at cb for Bailly

 

[dichinero]

Is it me or does he play better when Smalling isn't on the pitch next to him?

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Is it me or does he play better when Smalling isn't on the pitch next to him?

Ye its you. He was fantastic for most of last season with Smalling next to him.

 

[Irrational.]

He didn't seem comfortable at all at RCB. I don't blame him.

Expect to see him partnering Smalling on Saturday, though in fairness Rojo was excellent at LCB.

 

[G-manc]

I thought he ws awkward at RCB.

I'd still like to see him given a go at DM alongside Herrera.

 

[Devil may care]

I thought he tried to force it a bit too often today but overall had a decent game.

 

[Red_Beans]

Didn't have much to do. Playing him on the right seems to nullify his passing game which is his best attribute. Maybe iv just been Vangaalised though

 

[Acole9]

Decent game on Saturday, he's slotted in well on the right side of defence.

 

[slored1]

Dogshite so far. At least three stupid slips, misplaced passes and bad positioning in goal action. Just not good enough player to start week-in week-out for Manchester United.

 

[PlayerOne]

Makes a mistake in almost every game, which is very poor for a CB.

 

[Denis79]

Makes a mistake in almost every game, which is very poor for a CB.

Yup, he's a squad player at best. In no way should he be a starter.

 

[Devil may care]

He's struggling playing on the right side of the Cb partnership.

 

[Lawman]

Calamity Blind at it again such a poor defender. We need him out the defence as quickly as possible.

 

[Sylar]

Was he playing RCB? Or am I mistaken in that.

Maybe LVG was onto something nowadays with regards to having a right footed and a left footed CB to compliment each other :P