[ti vu]

Carvalho was still none of them though. He was quick i guess
I dont think its the first thing he looks for in a defender, I dont think its that important to him at all tbh.

I disagree. Carvalho is what David Luiz was likened to at younger age by the Latin/Hispanic football culture. Here in the good way that Carvalho is athletic, strong, and powerful bar physique disadvantage. With Carvalho there were dominant performance like David Luiz on song, not just dominant in and around the box. Was statistically one of the best tackler for few years. He played a more active destroying role than John last ditch tackler Terry as I recall.

 

[ivaldo]

I disagree. Carvalho is what David Luiz was likened to at younger age by the Latin/Hispanic football culture. Here in the good way that Carvalho is athletic, strong, and powerful bar physique. Was statistically one of the best tackler for few years. He played a more active destroying role than John last ditch tackler Terry as I recall.

He might have been aggressive and a good tackler but he was never particularly strong or quick.

 

[caid]

He might have been aggressive and a good tackler but he was never particularly strong or quick.

I thought he was deceptively quick tbh.
But yeah, tenacious and clever more than strong would be how i'd describe him

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Doomed..

 

[ivaldo]

I thought he was deceptively quick tbh.
But yeah, tenacious and clever more than strong would be how i'd describe him

He's certainly not slow, when he does have the pace of someone like Smalling.

 

[Scorpy]

He was naff again yesterday. Stupid moment that should have cost us a goal, countless times he wandered off out of position and someone else had to cover. Bafflingly large number of times he got sucked into challlenging for a ball with Wickham despite having zero chance of winning it. Can someone explain what it is he actually did well?

One thing that's really started to annoy me with him is when he picks up the ball, strolls slowly about 40 yards out of position with it, then just plays a hospital pass to someone next to him. Please can someone explain to me as well what goes through his head for him to think this isn't a stupid thing to do?...because he does it multiple times a game and it achieves nothing aside from allowing the opposition to counter attack.

If he had any functioning braincells he'd actually be a really useful player...but he just chases the ball with no regard for the situation or anything else that's going on, and when he has the ball he seems to completely forget what position he's playing in and often either plays a hosptial pass or just lofts it up the pitch to no one. One of his strengths is supposedly his distribution yet he must be among the worst in our team for using the ball poorly or taking too long with it.

I know people on here like him but if I was manager the very first thing I'd do is make sure he wasn't played at centreback anymore, under pretty much any circumstance. There's definitely another case of the Kagawa/Mata effect on here where people will just invent another version of reality so they can pretend he played well. If you take him out of the team and put a competent centreback in his place this season, we'd be comfortably in the top four, and would have gotten through the CL group stages.

People that come out with crap like "He's been our best centreback this year" I dunno. They either say it because they have no idea how a game of football works, or because they think saying it makes them sound clever and like they know more about football than anyone else...probably the same people who used to keep tellling us all LVG was a tactical genius who could not be questioned.

Fully agreed.

 

[Sandikan]

Interesting to see what his role will be next season. Don't think he'll ever step near CB again with Mourinho as manager. Backup LB and backup DM, for me.

Nailed it.

A lot of us were worried as anything seeing him line up at centre back, but he was much better than expected.

You need good strength and height in your team in the Premier league though, and we found ourselves ridiculously short of it at times, especially when Fellaini was out.
Need at least 2 dominant headers alongside Smalling, certainly 1 centre back.
Maybe Ibra could also come back if he signed. I'm suggesting that completely on his strength and height, no idea if he is good in the air

Thinking back to when Arsenal had Campbell, Vieira and Henry, and when Chelsea had a wealth of height and strength in their lineups.
It helps!

 

[ti vu]

He might have been aggressive and a good tackler but he was never particularly strong or quick.

It's hard to argue for a defender who was now on decline and got forgotten now.
The run at 5:25 in the below video. That's quick run for a CB.


I can't find a good video but there numerous time Carvalho won foot race against relative quick players. One notable moment where he covered plenty of space in a quick manner and tackled Andy Johnson (Everton) cleanly and saved Terry slow ass.

Against us, Carvalho usually marked Ronaldo. Ronaldo have both speed and strength. A tradition strong, big but slower CB would find it hard to mark Ronaldo due to his movement and quickness. Yet Ronaldo only scored against Chelsea in that CL game where he was marked by Essien.

It's better to ask Chelsea fans, but in my assessment, Carvalho was as strong as Jagelska. That's not impressively powerhouse strength, but they're still very strong compared to former and current weaker CB Heinze, Demichelis, Hummel, Pique,... Also remember someone like Jagelska or Ron Vlaar were recorded at times to be among the quickest CBs in real matches while they look very slow. So it's very deceptive to judge a CB's pace.

Edit: Just saw your post where you think when strong and quick standard is defined by Smalling standard. Smalling is very quick (rumor to be quicker than prime Rio) and very strong defender (as strong as Vidic. Smalling doesn't use his body as well as Vidic but on sheer strength he is up there). He is physical beast. Not a average standard for regular CB. If Smalling is the physical standard for CB then there are not enough real CBs at top level in the world. We're discussing Mourinho's cut line for CB strength and quickness, which sees Carvalho, Ramos, Samuel meets or above the average. Blind is below the average for all those categories.

 

[caid]

It's hard to argue for a defender who was now on decline and got forgotten now.
The run at 5:25 in the below video. That's quick run for a CB.


I can't find the video but there numerous time Carvalho won foot race with relative quick player. One notable moment where he covered plenty of space in a quick manner and tackled Andy Johnson (Everton) cleanly and saved Terry slow ass.

Against us, Carvalho usually marked Ronaldo. Ronaldo have both speed and strength. A tradition strong, big but slower CB would find it hard to mark Ronaldo due to his movement and quickness. Yet Ronaldo only scored against Chelsea in that CL game where he was marked by Essien.

It's better to ask Chelsea fans, but in my assessment, Carvalho was as strong as Jagelska. That's not impressively powerhouse strength, but they're still very strong compared to former and current weaker CB Heinze, Demichelis, Hummel, Pique,...

Edit: Just saw your post where you think when strong and quick standard is defined by Smalling standard. Smalling is very quick (rumor to be quicker than prime Rio) and very strong defender (as strong as Vidic. Smalling doesn't use his body as well as Vidic but on sheer strength he is up there). He is physical beast. Not a average standard for regular CB. If Smalling is the physical standard for CB then there are not enough real CBs at top level in the world. We're discussing Mourinho's cut line for CB strength and quickness, which sees Carvalho, Ramos, Samuel meets or above the average.

Well i think he was quite fast so, dont need to convince me on that. I think he used his strength well too - tenacious and clever.
The leagues i've spent any time watching are the premier league, serie a in the 90's and a bit of the bundesliga
so maybe i have a higher standard of strong than most, as all have or had a lot of really tough cb's and carvalho just doesn't figure for me in that regard.

And of Mourinho's first choice defenders he was the only one he actually bought (maybe not with porto?), he usually made do with what was available.
Lucio and Samuel are a good example - solid pro's with a mixed career who he got great form from.
I think whoever he plays there we'll be solid, even if he leaves it alone and keeps blind and smalling.
I honestly have 0 worries about the defensive side of our game going forward regardless though.
Whatever about the other guarantee's mourinho may or may not bring, a solid defence is surely still a banker.

 

[ivaldo]

Edit: Just saw your post where you think when strong and quick standard is defined by Smalling standard. Smalling is very quick (rumor to be quicker than prime Rio) and very strong defender (as strong as Vidic. Smalling doesn't use his body as well as Vidic but on sheer strength he is up there). He is physical beast. Not a average standard for regular CB. If Smalling is the physical standard for CB then there are not enough real CBs at top level in the world. We're discussing Mourinho's cut line for CB strength and quickness, which sees Carvalho, Ramos, Samuel meets or above the average. Blind is below the average for all those categories.

Oh I'm not saying Carvalho was weak or slow by any means, but at the highest standard he would'nt be defined as a fast centreback or a strong one. My point being is if these were must have assets for a Mourinho CB then he would've never opted for Carvalho. For me by far his greatest asset was his intelligence, his ability to read the game and react accordingly.

 

[ti vu]

Oh I'm not saying Carvalho was weak or slow by any means, but at the highest standard he would'nt be defined as a fast centreback or a strong one. My point being is if these were must have assets for a Mourinho CB then he would've never opted for Carvalho. For me by far his greatest asset was his intelligence, his ability to read the game and react accordingly.

Fair point. I do agree with you here. He is not on the high end of strength and quickness for CB. His great attribution is great anticipation of situation/ reading game.

I tried to convey the idea that Blind could even be put into the same not too impressively strong/ fast categories with Carvalho, Ramos, Samuel. I don't see Blind as Mourinho's CB.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

I'm a big fan of Blind. I'd say he's one of LvG's best signings. Incredibly dependable, never gets injured, versatile and is a very well rounded and intelligent footballer. That said, I think he probably knows he might be first on the chopping block under Mourinho, and his comments on the sacking of LvG speak volumes in that regard:

Daley Blind has spoken out over the sacking of Louis van Gaal and says Manchester United enjoyed a “successful season” despite finishing fifth.

Van Gaal was dismissed by United on Monday, 48 hours after winning the FA Cup at Wembley following a 2-1 triumph over Crystal Palace after extra-time.

Blind, who was brought to Old Trafford from Ajax in 2014 by Van Gaal, believes his compatriot “deserved more respect” over recent months, during which time speculation has been rife over the manager’s future and United’s interest in Mourinho.

“I’ve enjoyed working with the manager so much,” said Blind.

“I would have liked to have carried on for a long while.

“A manager at a big club in the Premier League will always be under pressure.

“But in the case of Van Gaal he has not been treated fairly over the last six months.

“I think a manager with the status of Van Gaal, who has achieved so much in his career, deserved more respect.”

Reports have suggested that the dressing room was close to mutiny due to Van Gaal’s methods, but Blind believes the whole squad should be grateful to their former manager for his backing this season.

Blind said: “No matter what was said or written about him as a manager, he never stopped protecting us as players.

“He has defended us under any kind of circumstances, he was always taking the stick instead of us.

“I think I can say that the whole squad is grateful for that, for what he has done in that respect for us as players.

“As players we kept believing in each other and we also kept believing in our manager, which was part of the reason we were able to win the FA Cup.

“We achieved this as a group, including the manager. In the end, this was a successful season in our eyes.”

Probably best we don't predict what Mourinho is going to do with what is already here, because we collectively got it all wrong over LvG's plans. We were all expecting RVP to get the armband, with Rooney and Fellaini punted out before even kicking a ball under his rule. However, I struggle to see Blind in a Mourinho team. I can't think of anyone similar in previous Mourinho teams (correct me if I am wrong there). He might keep him as a squad player to cover left back, central/defensive midfield and perhaps even centre back, as he is certainly a great option to have in that respect. I just don't see him as a starter in a tough, counter attacking set up.

I think he has the quality to play in a few positions, but I predict Mourinho will want someone a little quicker and more physically imposing. Whether he wants to be a rotation option is another thing. Mourinho's rotation is quite minimal, and whilst he might not be a Mourinho player, he's a very good footballer who could be an important starter for a lot of clubs. I'd be a little sad to see him go, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mourinho doesn't fancy him.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Think Mourinho will really like him at left back. Maybe even over Luke Shaw.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Think Mourinho will really like him at left back. Maybe even over Luke Shaw.

You reckon? As a pure defender, I think Shaw is just as good as Blind. Both good tacklers and both reasonable - not great - in the air. Shaw's passing is perhaps not as good, but he's a good dribbler with searing pace. I think Shaw has more to offer a counter attacking approach than Blind.

I do hope Mourinho does get the best out of Blind somehow. I wouldn't like to see him go, especially not to another Premier League side.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Doomed..

Why? He's a great squad player who can put in good performances in three different positions (four if you include left wing back)

 

[stevoc]

Mourinho will like Blind i think he's a good dependable versatile player, but just not at CB.

He's a great utility player, lets use him as such and buy a proper Centre Back who can fecking head a ball.

One definite plus of Van Gaal no longer being our manager is that we might actually line up with a back four comprising four actual defenders in their proper positions. I don't think we did that once this season.

 

[Bojan11]

Think Mourinho will really like him at left back. Maybe even over Luke Shaw.

Doubt it.

Mourinho likes 5 players to be over 6 foot. Mourinho wanted Shaw at Chelsea.

 

[Cheesy]

Mourinho will like Blind i think he's a good dependable versatile player, but just not at CB.

He's a great utility player, lets use him as such and buy a proper Centre Back who can fecking head a ball.

One definite plus of Van Gaal no longer being our manager is that we might actually line up with a back four comprising four actual defenders in their proper positions. I don't think we did that once this season.

I'd agree. I'd be shocked if Mourinho continues to play him alongside Smalling, but Blind definitely could be useful for us as a squad player and hopefully Mourinho will see that.

 

[Earthquake]

I like Blind, but I reckon for Mourinho he'll be the 12th man on the team sheet, 1st on the bench. Dependable, reliably injury free, can be stuck in to plug a gap in quite a few places and isn't likely to kick up a fuss. Valuable commodities, especially if you like to keep a small squad like LvG or (IIRC) Mourinho.

 

[caid]

I'm a big fan of Blind. I'd say he's one of LvG's best signings. Incredibly dependable, never gets injured, versatile and is a very well rounded and intelligent footballer. That said, I think he probably knows he might be first on the chopping block under Mourinho, and his comments on the sacking of LvG speak volumes in that regard:



Probably best we don't predict what Mourinho is going to do with what is already here, because we collectively got it all wrong over LvG's plans. We were all expecting RVP to get the armband, with Rooney and Fellaini punted out before even kicking a ball under his rule. However, I struggle to see Blind in a Mourinho team. I can't think of anyone similar in previous Mourinho teams (correct me if I am wrong there). He might keep him as a squad player to cover left back, central/defensive midfield and perhaps even centre back, as he is certainly a great option to have in that respect. I just don't see him as a starter in a tough, counter attacking set up.

I think he has the quality to play in a few positions, but I predict Mourinho will want someone a little quicker and more physically imposing. Whether he wants to be a rotation option is another thing. Mourinho's rotation is quite minimal, and whilst he might not be a Mourinho player, he's a very good footballer who could be an important starter for a lot of clubs. I'd be a little sad to see him go, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mourinho doesn't fancy him.

Zanetti was still at inter when he was there wasn't he?
Hes similar enough to alonso too imo.

I guess not as a cb though.

 

[ti vu]

Zanetti was still at inter when he was there wasn't he?
Hes similar enough to alonso too imo.

I guess not as a cb though.

You're doing Zanetti a lot of disservice here. He is very underrated player. He is IMO the only one defender who almost shut a healthy Messi off. Giggs did name him the toughest full back he was against in his career. Blind is nowhere near at his level. Blind is too slow and prone to get skinned by pacy wingers.

 

[caid]

You're doing Zanetti a lot of disservice here. He is very underrated player. He is IMO the only one defender who almost shut a healthy Messi off. Giggs did name him the toughest full back he was against in his career. Blind is nowhere near at his level. Blind is too slow and prone to get skinned by pacy wingers.

I'd agree but were talking about a 36ish year old zanetti here.

 

[ti vu]

I'd agree but were talking about a 36ish year old zanetti here.

I was talking about Zanetti vs Messi in those CL semi final legs (Inter vs Barcelona). Yes, he was mid 30s there, and Messi couldn't gain ground against him 1 vs 1 in both legs.

 

[lem8sh]

Really dont get people saying that. Its a myth imo
Carvalho wasn't even vaguely close to being a big, strong, powerful centre back
Samuel was fairly meaty but i was under the impression most people regarded him as a good player because of his use of the ball more than being a traditional lump of a defender.
Ramos isn't a big, strong, powerful centre back and neither is stones.

Think its probably likely he'll be moved back to midfield
but he wont be getting replaced by Huth or that type of player.

But he will be replaced by a stronger, more physical and most importantly natural centre half. Which is the whole point really. All players mentioned are number one; natural centre halves. Number two; more physical than Daley.

 

[Perrick Dubois]

Criticizes Blind for ball chasing and losing headers and posts a video of Blind winning a header and Smalling floating around chasing a ball he has 0% of getting leaving a gaping hole for Thorne to run straight through. Fantastic work.

Grab a dictionary, look up the word "context" and familiarize yourself with it.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

I like Blind, but I reckon for Mourinho he'll be the 12th man on the team sheet, 1st on the bench. Dependable, reliably injury free, can be stuck in to plug a gap in quite a few places and isn't likely to kick up a fuss. Valuable commodities, especially if you like to keep a small squad like LvG or (IIRC) Mourinho.

Agree with the rest, but I'm not sure on that part yet. I think it remains to be seen. If he's not playing, I think there's a good chance he'll want out. He's been an important player in the last 3 or 4 seasons for club and country. I'm not sure he'd want to be a rotation option. I could be wrong, of course, but I think he's too good to be filling gaps here and there. I'd predict Blind himself feels he's too good to be doing that as well.

 

[Earthquake]

Agree with the rest, but I'm not sure on that part yet. I think it remains to be seen. If he's not playing, I think there's a good chance he'll want out. He's been an important player in the last 3 or 4 seasons for club and country. I'm not sure he'd want to be a rotation option. I could be wrong, of course, but I think he's too good to be filling gaps here and there. I'd predict Blind himself feels he's too good to be doing that as well.

Perhaps you're right, just seems like a lad that'll get on with things to me.

Of course, it all depends on what offers he'll get if he's told he won't be starting every week here any more.

 

[Isotope]

Think Mourinho will really like him at left back. Maybe even over Luke Shaw.

Shaw is faster and stronger than Blind. He's like Ashley Cole with better crossing. It's hard to see any manager would prefer Blind over a fit Shaw.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Perhaps you're right, just seems like a lad that'll get on with things to me.

Of course, it all depends on what offers he'll get if he's told he won't be starting every week here any more.

He does seem pretty laid back and chill, to be fair. He might just sit on the bench with his feet up without a fuss, then come on and do the Mikel role for the last 10 minutes.

Whatever the outcome, I hope he stays. I'd rather not see him at centre back long term, but knowing you have a player who can come in and do a job there when needed is very valuable.

 

[Dec9003]

I doubt Blind will carry on at cb with Mourinho. But I don't see him going. He's a great left back and Shaw was injury prone even before the terrible injury he had this season. Providing Shaw comes back strong and is a first teamer next season I wouldn't expect him to play every match. Blind will be able to slot in perfectly whilst Shaw is out.

 

[caid]

I was talking about Zanetti vs Messi in those CL semi final legs (Inter vs Barcelona). Yes, he was mid 30s there, and Messi couldn't gain ground against him 1 vs 1 in both legs.

I'm not saying blind is as good as zanetti, at any age.
Im saying a 36 yr old zanetti is similar in sytle to blind, which i think is true.

I dont even think mourinho will keep playing him at cb so im not sure why im still arguing this point really.

 

[izec]

I like Blind, but I reckon for Mourinho he'll be the 12th man on the team sheet, 1st on the bench. Dependable, reliably injury free, can be stuck in to plug a gap in quite a few places and isn't likely to kick up a fuss. Valuable commodities, especially if you like to keep a small squad like LvG or (IIRC) Mourinho.

Just wanted to write this. No way will he be a starting player if everyone is fit. Well said, but we also need players like him.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

If Mascherano is indeed moving to Juventus, he might be a good candidate to replace him at Barcelona.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Shaw is faster and stronger than Blind. He's like Ashley Cole with better crossing. It's hard to see any manager would prefer Blind over a fit Shaw.

You reckon? As a pure defender, I think Shaw is just as good as Blind. Both good tacklers and both reasonable - not great - in the air. Shaw's passing is perhaps not as good, but he's a good dribbler with searing pace. I think Shaw has more to offer a counter attacking approach than Blind.

I do hope Mourinho does get the best out of Blind somehow. I wouldn't like to see him go, especially not to another Premier League side.

Shaw's only 19 and still learning the game. Blind, whilst not stronger or faster, reads the game better than Shaw, in my opinion. Mourinho likes a defensive back, with the ability to also get forward. Blind can do that, and has a very good delivery and good decision making in the final third.

It was hard to see Azpilicueta playing over Felipe Luiz, but it happened.

Either way, both are very talented players, and I wouldn't mind who plays there. Guess it depends on the type of game.

 

[KikiDaKats]

Why are we all busy writing our players off? What's to say Blind is not capable of doing an Ashley Young on ADM?
Can't we just wait till the season gets underway and see how everyone reacts to the new manager. Certain players are quite good at fighting for a place and Blind looks like one of those. Every manager(including Mourinho) like players that will follow their instructions, till Blind shows he not capable of doing so..I will continue to expect progression, same for every other player in the team.
Mourinho coming in for me is all about the different dimensions he will add to the development of their game. Most want trophies(understandable) but the players have to be developed to right standards first. Hopefully, Mourinho will continue the good he has done with players at other clubs.

 

[jesperjaap]

Is he not the most obvious replacement for Carrrick in midfield? Intelligent, good awareness, strong passer and seems to read the game very well. Surely playing just in front of the back four would be his optimal role in the team. Why persist with a 35 year old who's best days are well and truly behind him when we have someone who can fill the same role.

When Van Gaal first started he was playing Blind behind Herrera and Di Maria, it showed promise. The biggest crime wasmt moving Blind into defence though, it was playing DiMaria out wide. By far hi sbest seasons have been in central midfield for us, Madrid and Benfica even, total waste of talent by Van Gaal. Blind is a better central midfielder than he is a left back or centre back....but still an average one for me

 

[ti vu]

I'm not saying blind is as good as zanetti, at any age.
Im saying a 36 yr old zanetti is similar in sytle to blind, which i think is true.

I dont even think mourinho will keep playing him at cb so im not sure why im still arguing this point really.

I disagree with Blind is similar to Zanetti's style. Their similarity ends with versatility, and that's it. Zanetti is like a mixture of Lahm and Irwin. Yes I am talking about mid 30s Zanetti not even prime young Zanetti here. Blind severely lacks strength and pace. Blind is more similar to Heinze than Zanetti.

Watch this. By the shirt, all action in the clip was around the time Zanetti was in mid 30s. Kaka (rapid) couldn't win foot race against Zanetti at 0:35.



Zanetti merited his place in Mourinho's team. Not that Mourinho had to shoehorn him. Zanetti's versatility is bonus for Mourinho's tactic, not the reason for his mainstay in Mourinho's set up. As I said in my previous post. Zanetti (mid 30s) had the best one on one defensive performance vs Messi of all players I've ever seen.

Point is I don't see Blind having a solid starting place in Mou team in any positions, when his competitors for these position are fit and in decent form. Blind may get Arbeloa type of role, if he's able to get on good term with Mourinho. However, I can't see Blind be anything past that role with what Blind has shown.

By no mean, I undermine Blind's performance for us these past 2 years. He had solid first season and this season is one of the most consistent performers in our team. He exceeded the expectation this season playing as CB. He is our best signing beside Martial during LVG;s tenure. Just that we're moving away from heavy possession style, that brought out Blind's best attributes, so it's logical to see Blind's starting place would be questioned.

 

[Macern]

Fine, Zanetti was good, but calling mid-30 Zanetti a mix between Lahm and Irwin is stretching it a bit too far.

 

[ti vu]

Fine, Zanetti was good, but calling mid-30 Zanetti a mix between Lahm and Irwin is stretching it a bit too far.

Style is the key word, not combined level of performance.

 

[Earthquake]

It was hard to see Azpilicueta playing over Felipe Luiz, but it happened.

In my mind, this wasn't the weird bit, as much as why Ivanovic despite being not very good any more kept getting picked ahead of a Felipe Luiz LB/Azpilicueta RB combo

Why are we all busy writing our players off? What's to say Blind is not capable of doing an Ashley Young on ADM?

Nothing saying it can't happen, but there's nothing wrong with discussing what we think will/could happen.

On the flip side, perhaps Mourinho lets Carrick go, and gives his role to Blind. This year at CB will surely have helped his positional sense(something he occasionally had issues with in his first season here), combined with his passing and vision could make for a quality holding mid.

Way too open to really know what's going to happen, what formation will we play, where does he see Rooney(CM, AM, ST, China?), who we'll bring in, who we'll sell.