Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter | Fin

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shamans said:
Clearly someone who hasn't seen Ronaldo for portugal for nearly two decades. Ask Portuguese national what they think of Ronaldo. None will complain whereas there are plenty of Argentine national fans who are disappointed with Messi not winning a world cup. Since Euro 2004 when Ronaldo was hardly a man he was carrying his team. Only now does portugal have a proper attack.

At the end fo the day you can argue or you can look at facts. Ronaldo won a euro with portugal and Messi has won zilch with a better team. Calling this a "myth" just shows how sensitive Messi fans are at Ronaldo's success.
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So you think Ronaldo has been as good for Portugal as he's been for his club teams?

Is that what you're seriously arguing?

Of course Argentina fans are going to be more harsh on Messi than Portugal fans are on Ronaldo. Only one of them is being compared to Maradona. He's literally God to so many Argentines.

Why are we using team accomplishments to judge individual performances?

Do you think Ronaldo's Euro 2016 performance was that much better than any of Messi's performances at an international competition?
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
His best club form was never replicated for his national team. That was my point.
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When he was at his peak, he was replicating those performances for Portugal in the Paulo Bento years. Got us to the Euros in 2012 with an heroic performance against Bosnia in the playoffs, same as against Sweden for the 2014 WC and had a great tournament in 2012. For the World Cup in 2014 he fecked up his knee due to overplaying for Madrid. During that time it was the best he was playing for us. We just lost on penalties in 2012 so he got 0 recognition and people didn't care how injured he was in 2014.

In 2016 he got recognition because we won. That's football for you, you get more recognition when you win. Maybe if we win the penalty shootout in 2012 vs Spain and lose in 2016 his story would be remembered very differently.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
His best club form was never replicated for his national team. That was my point.
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Out from recent memories, he did scored 14 goals in 10 games for Portugal during 2019 too. His form for national team is actually better than his club form at Juventus at that time.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
This myth that Ronaldo has been superb for Portugal while Messi has been average for Argentina is laughable.

Both of them have failed to replicate their club forms for their national teams.

Both of them likely aren't in the top 10 of national team performances only.

But Ronaldo fans will peddle his Euro 2016 win despite the fact that Ronaldo himself has had better tournaments than that individually. It's insane how team accomplishments can change the perception of individual performances.
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You can’t be too harsh on that, Ronaldo is current holder of multiple all time international records in Europe, and he has also won Euro for the very first time for his country. Least to say he has already left his mark and legendary status for his national team. Of course had he won the WC and scored 150+ goals to match his club form (2 times more than Pele/Puskas), would be even better.

But let’s get realistic, very few in history of game has done better than him. I mean, 104+ goals and won first Euro for his country. It’s already legendary.
 
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Scarlett Dracarys said:
They are but Ronaldo is very against processed foods. I mean look at him you can't look like that if you drink coca cola.
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GifLord said:
Are Coca Cola the official sponsor? He could face a fine cause of this
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doubt it. Not his sponsor nor is he contractually obligated to use their product - see boots etc.

Irrespective, the fine wouldn’t out weigh the damage he’s just done. Perhaps people placing products in these press conferences will think different… ffs he’s a professional footballer.
 
Gehrman said:
Which shit teams have Ronaldo made look great? Man Utd? Real Madrid? Juventus?

Essentially the biggest teams in their countries and the biggest in the world.
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Well, RM was actually a bit of a disaster when he joined them, all things considered.

Of course it took other players(and coaches) as well to really turn things around, but he was no doubt a key part in getting RM back among the elite teams again.
 
Morty_ said:
Well, RM was actually a bit of a disaster when he joined them, all things considered.

Of course it took other players(and coaches) as well to really turn things around, but he was no doubt a key part in getting RM back among the elite teams again.
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Well no doubt that Ronaldo was the key goalscorer in those teams but i would say he played in some of most stacked squads in history in RM. If i remember they got Benzema, kaka, alonso and Di maria in the same window as Ronaldo.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
This myth that Ronaldo has been superb for Portugal while Messi has been average for Argentina is laughable.

Both of them have failed to replicate their club forms for their national teams.

Both of them likely aren't in the top 10 of national team performances only.

But Ronaldo fans will peddle his Euro 2016 win despite the fact that Ronaldo himself has had better tournaments than that individually. It's insane how team accomplishments can change the perception of individual performances.
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Ronaldo scored 103 goals for his country, what else would you like him to do ffs ?
 
Daysleeper said:
madrid still made the semi finals of CL and
Won half as many leagues as they did with Ronaldo. They definitely needed each other but I’d argue Ronaldo needed Madrid far more than Madrid needed Ronaldo
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Context matters.

For his entire career at RM, Barcelona were at a near inhuman level in terms of consistency, around the time he left they also started dropping their level, its easier to win the league now that it doesnt take 90+ points anymore.

Its mostly a wash either way, there isnt a great deal in it, Ronaldo picked up one more league title in his time at Juve than RM did without him.
The CL-records are near identical for the two teams, a semi is better, but RM went out earlier than Juve in his first year at Juventus.

Both lost out here.
 
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Gehrman said:
Well no doubt that Ronaldo was the key goalscorer in those teams but i would say he played in some of most stacked squads in history in RM. If i remember they got Benzema, kaka, alonso and Di maria in the same window as Ronaldo.
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Actually, that doesnt quite cover it, he was a key player for RM when he arrived there, not just the key goalscorer(he really took on the poacher role around 14-15 i think).

And yes, that 2009 transfer window was insane, though Di Maria was bought the year after i believe.
 
Gehrman said:
Well no doubt that Ronaldo was the key goalscorer in those teams but i would say he played in some of most stacked squads in history in RM. If i remember they got Benzema, kaka, alonso and Di maria in the same window as Ronaldo.
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This is exactly why I dont rate Messi as high as others though. Has always played with the benefit of the highest quality teams consistently over the last 10+ years (some would argue the greatest team of all time) - but more specifically; a team that consistently plays a certain tactical style of football that Messi can always reap the benefits of and play to a standard that always suited him.
 
Morty_ said:
Actually, that doesnt quite cover it, he was a key player for RM when he arrived there, not just the key goalscorer(he really took on the poacher role around 14-15 i think).

And yes, that 2009 transfer window was insane, though Di Maria was bought the year after i believe.
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I dont have problem with saying he was THE keyplayer for RM. But its deluded to try an lump RM as a shit team. They had won 2 la ligas prior to 2009, but were failing in Europe. Then when Barcelona won the treble they shat their pants and decided to buy every wold class player they could get their hands on. No doubt Ronaldo was the crown jewel in those squads but they simply werent shit or average. It was galactico squads.
 
Camara said:
Hmm https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mes...our-daily-salt-allowance.400526/post-24947056
and
Hmm https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mes...our-daily-salt-allowance.400526/post-24947889
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yet Messi has Brazil in his top 4 teams he’s scored the most against while Ronaldo has all fodder in his top 5

https://michelacosta.com/en/lionel-messi-cristiano-ronaldo-at-international-level/


Messi also faced far tougher competition on the international stage on average than Ronaldo does and is a better player when it comes to knockout stages of an international tourney:


ONLY in KO Stages

Messi
21 Games
4 Goals
14 Assists
18 G/A in 21 Games

Cristiano
19 Games
6 Goals
4 Assists
10 G/A in 19 Games



but again I’d be more than happy to take this to the Messi vs Ronaldo thread, I only brought up Ronaldo during his time with Juventus and everyone else here brought up Messi.
 
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Good for him for ditching the unhealthy garbage of coca-cola.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
So you think Ronaldo has been as good for Portugal as he's been for his club teams?

Is that what you're seriously arguing?

Of course Argentina fans are going to be more harsh on Messi than Portugal fans are on Ronaldo. Only one of them is being compared to Maradona. He's literally God to so many Argentines.

Why are we using team accomplishments to judge individual performances?

Do you think Ronaldo's Euro 2016 performance was that much better than any of Messi's performances at an international competition?
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Yeah he's been better even in that 2016 performance. Some people just don't understand or see the things he does that make it better and then get annoyed when others say so. I've seen Messi hide in many clutch situations especially internationally. When his team is losing you can see him slouch around.
 
Daysleeper said:
yet Messi has Brazil in his top 4 teams he’s scored the most against while Ronaldo has all fodder in his top 5

https://michelacosta.com/en/lionel-messi-cristiano-ronaldo-at-international-level/


Messi also faced far tougher competition on the international stage on average than Ronaldo does and is a better player when it comes to knockout stages of an international tourney:


ONLY in KO Stages

Messi
21 Games
4 Goals
14 Assists
18 G/A in 21 Games

Cristiano
19 Games
6 Goals
4 Assists
10 G/A in 19 Games



but again I’d be more than happy to take this to the Messi vs Ronaldo thread, I only brought up Ronaldo during his time with Juventus and everyone else here brought up Messi.
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You're really clutching at straws here. :lol:
 
Daysleeper said:
Not at all, Messi is just as good as Ronaldo on the international stage, no question.
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I mean, the two posts provided by Camara show pretty comprehensively how Ronaldo has outperformed Messi for international matches that matter (ie no friendlies, and removing non-'big' international sides). But now we're going to have to say, "but KO matches only!" which is why I made the clutching at straws comment.
 
Bloody hell, how difficult is it to stay on topic in these threads? There is a dedicated Ronaldo v Messi thread, yet you crazy bastards (Messi fans mostly) manage to cock it up.
 
SirAF said:
Bloody hell, how difficult is it to stay on topic in these threads? There is a dedicated Ronaldo v Messi thread, yet you crazy bastards (Messi fans mostly) manage to cock it up.
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BS sir af I never mentioned Messi in this only started discussing Ronaldo at Juventus and everyone started bringing up Messi randomly. Don’t lump us into this when we started this on topic. Blame your own lot for getting this off topic
 
The Corinthian said:
I mean, the two posts provided by Camara show pretty comprehensively how Ronaldo has outperformed Messi for international matches that matter (ie no friendlies, and removing non-'big' international sides). But now we're going to have to say, "but KO matches only!" which is why I made the clutching at straws comment.
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See where you’re coming from but knockout matches >>> friendlies and group stage and clearly Messi has the edge there
 
Daysleeper said:
See where you’re coming from but knockout matches >>> friendlies and group stage and clearly Messi has the edge there
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This actually seems wrong. Looking at the stats on Wikipedia messi has scored 34 goals in 47 friendlies but only 39 in 98 competitive matches, whereas ronaldo has only scored 19 in 54 friendlies but 83 in 124 competitive matches for their respective countries. So if you take friendlies away ronaldo has a much higher scoring rate
 
jm99 said:
This actually seems wrong. Looking at the stats on Wikipedia messi has scored 34 goals in 47 friendlies but only 39 in 98 competitive matches, whereas ronaldo has only scored 19 in 54 friendlies but 83 in 124 competitive matches for their respective countries. So if you take friendlies away ronaldo has a much higher scoring rate
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Messi has a better goal contribution in international tournaments (World Cup and Copa America) compared to Ronaldo (euro and World Cup)

https://www.messivsronaldo.app/international-stats/

But no more discussion on this, let’s take this to the thread dedicated to it :)
 
Daysleeper said:
Messi has a better goal contribution in international tournaments (World Cup and Copa America) compared to Ronaldo (euro and World Cup)

https://www.messivsronaldo.app/international-stats/

But no more discussion on this, let’s take this to the thread dedicated to it :)
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This is crazy stuff.

Apparently Ronaldo has 10 less appearances than Messi for a World Cup and has 8 more goals at 31 and the same amount of assists at 10.

That website you showed highlights C Ronaldo a lot as the better player on the international stage. Nice stuff
 
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