Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr

FrankFoot said:
Yes, but performances should be counted, and Di Stefano never played a WC, plus Cristiano didn't do anything in knockout stages.

When I think best who never won a WC, I immediately think about Cruyff,
and Platini, based on performances in the event and legendary status. You can add Zico too.
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The thing is, he can’t choose his country, and he did all he could winning their first and only Euro, and also scoring all time record of 123+ goals for them. What more do you expect he could do?

And even though you might think that’s not good enough for GOAT contention, he is in fact the GOAT in the biggest, most prestigious and highest level club competition in football - the CL.

Then of course the fact that he won 5 Ballon D’ors and 7 times as runners up, there’s just no way you could objectively count him out. It simply defies every logic and common sense there in any competitive sports.
 
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Ronaldo won a Ballon d’Or in 2013 when he won nothing and there were 2 players better than him that year.

And for his international record, good, but you can’t deny he plays for the stats against sides he should be resting.
 
Yet another heroic come back from Ronaldo, scoring 2 winning goals from 0-1 while down to 10 men, and win his first trophy in Saudi.
 
After the Saudis, Ronaldo can buy a team in Portugal and keep playing as owner-player till he is 50 or something.

His team will become more popular than Wrexham, he will get over a billion followers on Instagram and he'd be able to finance the team just from commercials, movies, shirts and so on...
 
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He's still one of the best goalscorers out there. It's only my humblest opinion. I respect those that don't agree with me.

What moves the most with Cristiano is what he showed today while on the pitch. He scored twice, but he could have left the game with a defeat and zero goals, like many times before. But regardless of final result, it's the relentless drive and passion. He entered the pitch today wanting the win more than anyone else. It's also, for me, the attitude on the pitch, picking up the game when the team was faultering on the offensive phase, dropping back to up the tempo, drifting to the wing to put pace on the offensive phase.

And above all, it's elevating himself when it felt like everything was crumbling. Which is basically the hallmark of Cristiano's career. It's as if in his mind, the worse things are, the more he believes things will turn around. His self belief actually grows, his confidence seems to grow, his faith seems to grow, while for most players they slowly vanish away for the remainder of the match. His sense of self-preseverance and the dopamine rush he gets when he knows he can be the newspaper headliner is out of this world. Sometimes he scores zero, but more often than not, he finds a way.

And of course, on footballing terms, he has an eternal, uncanny ability to always be at the right place, at the right time. On the first goal, when the right winger has the first touch to receive the long pass, Cristiano is the first person to acknowledge the reception as successful and reading the upcoming ball's trajectory, and therefore is the first to dash forward deeper into the area. If tap-ins were easy, why can't every striker tap in 25 goals a season? The only player I've in my lifetime seen reading the game and understanding body and ball physics as good as Cristiano is Messi. Both truly uncanny is this regard.
 
He still has that desire and initial burst to get into those spaces for tap ins. He just loves scoring. Overall I thought the game was very entertaining and a good advert for Saudi
 
Andrade said:
I've seen a lot of people do this greater/better thing and I never understood what people were talking about so thank you for explaining it to me.

I would disagree however that CR has a much greater legacy than R9. We do not in fact know what CR's legacy is because he is still playing. What we will think of him 10 years, 30 years, 50 years after his retirement is not clear. Maybe his rep will increase, maybe it will decrease.

If you're saying that CR has a greater legacy than R9 simply because he's scored more goals and won more stuff, does that mean he also has a greater legacy than Maradona?

I personally use 'better' and 'greater' interchangeably and I base it on the same thing - performances. Particularly on the biggest stage. If you take CR's best ever all round performances, are they better than Maradona's? Or R9's? I really don't think so, and I saw all three play dozens of times.

But that's just my criteria, others count the accolades or whatever, even though the accolades available have changed over time.
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Reputation after retirement always increase, hardly the opposite happens.

Maradona himself was shitted on a lot by argentinian media when he was a player, often pictured as a arrogant cokehead with a huge ego because of his abilities, once he retired he became "humble Diego" loved by everybody in Argentina, not a single journalist shit talked him ever again.

I doubt Cristiano legacy will go down when he retires, pretty much now most Man Utd fans hate him cause the incident with Piers Morgan is still fresh, but give it 5-10 years, and barely anyone will care.

I don't know any player yet whose reputation got worse after they stopped playing, and if it happened it's cause maybe the guy did something very bad after he retired like raping a woman or beating his own wife, etc.
 
bakalhau said:
He's still one of the best goalscorers out there. It's only my humblest opinion. I respect those that don't agree with me.

What moves the most with Cristiano is what he showed today while on the pitch. He scored twice, but he could have left the game with a defeat and zero goals, like many times before. But regardless of final result, it's the relentless drive and passion. He entered the pitch today wanting the win more than anyone else. It's also, for me, the attitude on the pitch, picking up the game when the team was faultering on the offensive phase, dropping back to up the tempo, drifting to the wing to put pace on the offensive phase.

And above all, it's elevating himself when it felt like everything was crumbling. Which is basically the hallmark of Cristiano's career. It's as if in his mind, the worse things are, the more he believes things will turn around. His self belief actually grows, his confidence seems to grow, his faith seems to grow, while for most players they slowly vanish away for the remainder of the match. His sense of self-preseverance and the dopamine rush he gets when he knows he can be the newspaper headliner is out of this world. Sometimes he scores zero, but more often than not, he finds a way.

And of course, on footballing terms, he has an eternal, uncanny ability to always be at the right place, at the right time. On the first goal, when the right winger has the first touch to receive the long pass, Cristiano is the first person to acknowledge the reception as successful and reading the upcoming ball's trajectory, and therefore is the first to dash forward deeper into the area. If tap-ins were easy, why can't every striker tap in 25 goals a season? The only player I've in my lifetime seen reading the game and understanding body and ball physics as good as Cristiano is Messi. Both truly uncanny is this regard.
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Yep

Wether you like Cristiano or not, his mentality to still want to play no matter what's the adversity it's amazing.

If only some other players had this commitment, they could have achieved more, lot of good players had the ability but weak mentality and mediocre commitment to their work ethics.
 
FrankFoot said:
Reputation after retirement always increase, hardly the opposite happens.

Maradona himself was shitted on a lot by argentinian media when he was a player, often pictured as a arrogant cokehead with a huge ego because of his abilities, once he retired he became "humble Diego" loved by everybody in Argentina, not a single journalist shit talked him ever again.

I doubt Cristiano legacy will go down when he retires, pretty much now most Man Utd fans hate him cause the incident with Piers Morgan is still fresh, but give it 5-10 years, and barely anyone will care.

I don't know any player yet whose reputation got worse after they stopped playing, and if it happened it's cause maybe the guy did something very bad after he retired like raping a woman or beating his own wife, etc.
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He is gonna be way less relevant when thinking about the all time greats..

There is a reason why most only think of Pele and Maradona when historically talking about the greatest players ever forgetting many of the Tier 2 greats such as Cruyff, Platini, Gerd Muller, Beckenbauer, Romario etc. The perception over Gerd Muller for example in the 70s obviously was not the same as that now..

20-30 years from now, people will continue to remember Messi, Maradona and Pele instantly when thinking about GOATs, they are kind of immortals, not the case for many other Tier 2 greats including Ronaldo.. Actually, R9 could be even more relevant than him as the time passes by since he is still a part of the conversation despite his retirement long time ago..
 
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FrankFoot said:
Reputation after retirement always increase, hardly the opposite happens.

Maradona himself was shitted on a lot by argentinian media when he was a player, often pictured as a arrogant cokehead with a huge ego because of his abilities, once he retired he became "humble Diego" loved by everybody in Argentina, not a single journalist shit talked him ever again.

I doubt Cristiano legacy will go down when he retires, pretty much now most Man Utd fans hate him cause the incident with Piers Morgan is still fresh, but give it 5-10 years, and barely anyone will care.

I don't know any player yet whose reputation got worse after they stopped playing, and if it happened it's cause maybe the guy did something very bad after he retired like raping a woman or beating his own wife, etc.
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Many players reps in fact decrease from what they were at the time they were playing. Examples are Platini, Rummenigge, Socrates, Baggio etc. The first 2 were comsidered to be better players than Maradona at times in their careers, who thinks that now? The other two were genius level players who just get looked at as guys who didn't win enough these days.

Zico is another genius level player who doesnt really get his due compared to how he was viewed in the past (as basically the best, or right up there).0
Romario is another who is sometimes overlooked, especially in Europe. When was the last time you heard someone talk about Stoichkov? Or Hagi? Or Zamorano? There are so many.

Also, there are players who were extremely high profile who have been virtually forgotten outside of their own countries: Boniek, Sanchez, Cubillas, etc. I mean no disrespect to those guys, just pointing out that they're not talked about in the same way they used to be.

.
 
frostbite said:
After the Saudis, Ronaldo can buy a team in Portugal and keep playing as owner-player till he is 50 or something.

His team will become more popular than Wrexham, he will get over a billion followers on Instagram and he'd be able to finance the team just from commercials, movies, shirts and so on...
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Might aswell be Maritimo, are they still in the top division?
 
What a clutch player. Its not an easy game for him as he has to face against Savic-Neves midfield, with Koulibay in heart of defence man marking him, and under adverse situation with 10 men down too. The opponents are just stronger and better, he basically has to win the game with his own sheer determination. Also ends up beating the likes of Benzema to win the tournament golden boot.
 
Andrade said:
Many players reps in fact decrease from what they were at the time they were playing. Examples are Platini, Rummenigge, Socrates, Baggio etc. The first 2 were comsidered to be better players than Maradona at times in their careers, who thinks that now? The other two were genius level players who just get looked at as guys who didn't win enough these days.

Zico is another genius level player who doesnt really get his due compared to how he was viewed in the past (as basically the best, or right up there).0
Romario is another who is sometimes overlooked, especially in Europe. When was the last time you heard someone talk about Stoichkov? Or Hagi? Or Zamorano? There are so many.

Also, there are players who were extremely high profile who have been virtually forgotten outside of their own countries: Boniek, Sanchez, Cubillas, etc. I mean no disrespect to those guys, just pointing out that they're not talked about in the same way they used to be.

.
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Platini reputation got even worse cause all of the corruption cases with UEFA and FIFA.

Btw once Maradona won the WC, he officially got more praise than Platini and Zico, even if things were close before 1986, so I doubt that had anything to do with the later retiring from football. The WC victory just pushed Maradona over the top, considering WC was even more important back then when club football wasn't shown worldwide, so what everyone could watch was the WC.

The cases of Boniek, Cubillas, and Sanchez are due to younger people not watching them live, like if you are under 50 you probably never watched any of them aside from YouTube compilations, nothing to do with them getting a worse reputation after retirement.

There are certain players like Maradona, Zidane, R9, and Ronaldinho who got more media exposure than other genius players like Laudrup, Baggio, Hagi, Stoichkov, etc, it's just that, nothing to do with them getting a worse reputation for unknown reasons after retirement.
Media exposure gets the job done too, which is why Beckham it's more well known than Michael Laudrup worldwide, despite Laudrup being a better player than Beckham IMO.
For example, David Beckham was one of the first european players who became famous in the asian continent before cable tv to watch European football was popular, even more famous than the like of Zidane, Dinho, Romario, R9, Roberto's Carlos, etc, and you can't say he was much better than them as a player, it just happens that Premier League was the first european league that entered the asian market, and Beckham was the poster boy of english football back then.
 
Andrade said:
Many players reps in fact decrease from what they were at the time they were playing. Examples are Platini, Rummenigge, Socrates, Baggio etc. The first 2 were comsidered to be better players than Maradona at times in their careers, who thinks that now? The other two were genius level players who just get looked at as guys who didn't win enough these days.

Zico is another genius level player who doesnt really get his due compared to how he was viewed in the past (as basically the best, or right up there).0
Romario is another who is sometimes overlooked, especially in Europe. When was the last time you heard someone talk about Stoichkov? Or Hagi? Or Zamorano? There are so many.

Also, there are players who were extremely high profile who have been virtually forgotten outside of their own countries: Boniek, Sanchez, Cubillas, etc. I mean no disrespect to those guys, just pointing out that they're not talked about in the same way they used to be.

.
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In the past its always the one with the "most" goals, "most" trophies, "most talented, "most" memorable performances etc whose legacy would stays longer. Because when people memories start to fade abit, the only thing which remains strong would be their unmatched records/achievements which solidify their legacy.

Best player with most WC wins - Pele
Best player with most CL wins - Di Stefano
Most career goals in top level - Pele, Puskas, Muller, Eusebio
Most memorable performance - Maradona (86 WC), Cruyff (74), Pele (70)
Most talented - Maradona, Best, Garrincha, Cruyff, Pele
Most Ballon D'ors - Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten
Most dominating - Pele (58-70), Di Stefano (55-60), Maradona (85-90)
Most memorable rivalry - Beckenabuer vs Cruyff (during 70s), Pele vs Maradona (as in GOAT debat)
Most revolutionary - Beckenbauer, Cruyff
Most CL goals - Di Stefano
Most WC goals (all time/single) - Muller / Fontaine, Eusebio
Most Euro goals (all time + single) - Platini

If we translate those to modern days:

Best player with most WC wins - Pele
Best player with most CL wins - Ronaldo, Di Stefano
Most career goals in top level - Ronaldo, Messi, Pele, Romario, Puskas, Muller, Eusebio
Most memorable performance - Maradona (86 WC), Cruyff (74), Pele (70)
Most talented - Messi, Maradona, R9, Best, Garrincha, Cruyff, Pele
Most Ballon D'ors - Messi, Ronaldo, Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten
Most dominating - Messi (07-21), Ronaldo (07-20), Pele (58-70), Di Stefano (55-60), Maradona (85-90)
Most memorable rivalry - Messi vs Ronaldo, Beckenabuer vs Cruyff, Pele vs Maradona
Most revolutionary - Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Ronaldo, Messi
Most CL goals - Ronaldo, Messi (CL format) / Di Stefano (European Cup format)
Most WC goals (all time/single) - Klose, R9, Muller / Fontaine, Eusebio
Most Euro goals (all time/single) - Ronaldo / Platini

There's really no chance his legacy would go down after he retires. And that's not even counting the fact he is by far the most famous/followed person in social media.
 
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RedRonaldo said:
In the past its always the one with the "most" goals, "most" trophies, "most talented, "most" memorable performances etc whose legacy would stays longer. Because when people memories start to fade abit, the only thing which remains strong would be their unmatched records/achievements which solidify their legacy.

Best player with most WC wins - Pele
Best player with most CL wins - Di Stefano
Most career goals in top level - Pele, Puskas, Muller, Eusebio
Most memorable performance - Maradona (86 WC), Cruyff (74), Pele (70)
Most talented - Maradona, Best, Garrincha, Cruyff, Pele
Most Ballon D'ors - Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten
Most dominating - Pele (58-70), Di Stefano (55-60), Maradona (85-90)
Most memorable rivalry - Beckenabuer, Cruyff
Most revolutionary - Beckenbauer, Cruyff
Most CL goals - Di Stefano
Most WC goals (all time/single) - Muller / Fontaine, Eusebio
Most Euro goals (all time + single) - Platini

If we translate those to modern days:

Best player with most WC wins - Pele
Best player with most CL wins - Ronaldo, Di Stefano
Most career goals in top level - Ronaldo, Messi, Pele, Romario, Puskas, Muller, Eusebio
Most memorable performance - Maradona (86 WC), Cruyff (74), Pele (70)
Most talented - Messi, Maradona, R9, Best, Garrincha, Cruyff, Pele
Most Ballon D'ors - Messi, Ronaldo, Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten
Most dominating - Messi (07-21), Ronaldo (07-20), Pele (58-70), Di Stefano (55-60), Maradona (85-90)
Most memorable rivalry - Messi vs Ronaldo, Beckenabuer vs Cruyff
Most revolutionary - Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Ronaldo, Messi
Most CL goals - Ronaldo, Messi, Di Stefano
Most WC goals (all time/single) - Klose, R9, Muller / Fontaine, Eusebio
Most Euro goals (all time/single) - Ronaldo, Platini

There's really no chance his legacy would go down after he retires. And that's not even counting the fact he is by far the most famous/followed person in social media.
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1.Out of all the ones you listed, Ronaldo is the only one that performed miserably in the WCs. though playing in 5 WCs.

2. Maradona/Pele is only a part of three categories and Messi 7 while Ronaldo 8, this is too objective:lol: I can easily design another one where Ronaldo would be a part of one/two category and Messi/Maradona/Pele 10. Congrats on designing a list (prbably the only possible list that could make Ronaldo shine against top 3 who are easily superior to Ronaldo. I wonder how that list would look if Ronaldo achieved anything of note in the WC or were a top playmaker, creator, dribbler, passer along with being a top goal scorer, it would probably be all Ronaldos in all categories..

3. You are too much focused on goals for obvious reasons. Can you explain why Cruyff and Beckenbauer are remembered and revered more than Gerd Muller? Why do people have hard time remembering his name when thinking about the greatest players of all time? Maybe just maybe football is more than "number of goals" as it is a team sport. And Muller unlike Ronaldo dominated every single competition be it WC, EC, CL, Bundesliga with his goals. His goal per game ratio is crazy like double of Ronaldo with the NT.. 13 goals in 14 games in the WC, WC 1970 top goal scorer, top goalscorer in EC 72 scoring 4 goals out of 5 of Germany with 2 in the final, winning goal in 74 WC final, 4 time European Cup (now CL) top goalscorer, 7 time Bundesliga top goalscorer. Yet, we don't hear much about him.

4. Maradona, Cruyff, Platini, Messi are not there just for goals. You have 4-5 categories for goals and no category for playmaking, dribbling, elegance etc. these are what Maradona, Messi, KDB, Zidane, Modric, Pirlo etc. are primarily known for.....

5. and, with regard to goals, no category for Golden Shoes, supposedly Ronaldo's favorite award.. no category for "the most number of league top scorer awards" since you are focused a lot on goal-scoring..

6. Out of all the goal scorers, Ronaldo probably has the lowest per game ratio. He is inflating his numbers by playing tons of more games many times against minnows especially at the NT level. His record against big football nations or even American nations is atrocious. It is really stupid to call him the greatest NT level scorer. Other than regularly failing to score in big games/against big names, Ronaldo is probably the only one in your list with 0 goals & assists in 8 WC knock-out games, he was surpassed even by 39 year-old defender Pepe and 22 year old Goncalo Ramos who managed to score more than one goal in the knock-out rounds with Portugal.

7. Most Euro goals do not mean much when Ronaldo played 20 more games than Platini with non-stop expansion of ECs. Ronaldo is not even a top 10 performer in Euros, he is quite far from the first players to think when you think about the best players in Euros. Maybe, you should create a category that's named the best players/most influential players in ECs or something like you did for the CL. I do not care or remember exactly how many goals Van Basten scored in EC 88, all I know is that what he did in EC 88 was way more influential/memorable than what Ronaldo did in 5 ECs combined, just an example..

--Messi's 2022 WC performance is easily one of the most memorable.

-- And I have no idea what Ronaldo revolutionized.

20-30 years from now, Ronaldo would be way more irrelevant just like Gerd Muller (make no mistake Muller probably is the most clutch scorer ever, seems like he never disappoints) while people will think of Messi, Pele, Maradona instantly as GOATs just like most do now..

Ronaldo's social media is full of bots like others including Messi and people from non (significant)-football nations in the 3rd world especially the Middle East and nearby nations, followers count is not a good proxy for popularity. He has been largely irrelevant since he left Real in 2018, no Ballon D'or in 6 years, no Golden shoe in 9 years, 1 league top goal scorer award in 8-9 years, nothing of note in the CL after Real, never had a best player award in an international tournament etc. He is only judged by his goals as he is inferior in other areas like playmaking yet he was not even able to dominate this area for such a long time. It's been a very long time since he has been associated with regular success, probably explains his mental breakdown.

Messi is probably more popular in Europe especially with the WC win, South America and the latest US move, Apple link will definitely help easily conquer the US market which is huge.. Nowadays, we have Apple CEO Tim Cook posting tweets about Messi, mentioning him in earnings calls etc. It didn't help that Ronaldo failed badly in the WC, acted unprofessionally against United with his narcissism fully revealed, could not even find a club in Europe getting rejected left and right, benched in the WC in an embarrassing manner, and found himself in Saudi Arabia again in an embarrassing manner after what he said about Xavi in Qatar & his interview with Piers. His status in the football world has been regularly sinking for quite some time, many of his old time fans even here understandably have been leaving the sinking ship.
 
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FrankFoot said:
Platini reputation got even worse cause all of the corruption cases with UEFA and FIFA.

Btw once Maradona won the WC, he officially got more praise than Platini and Zico, even if things were close before 1986, so I doubt that had anything to do with the later retiring from football. The WC victory just pushed Maradona over the top, considering WC was even more important back then when club football wasn't shown worldwide, so what everyone could watch was the WC.

The cases of Boniek, Cubillas, and Sanchez are due to younger people not watching them live, like if you are under 50 you probably never watched any of them aside from YouTube compilations, nothing to do with them getting a worse reputation after retirement.

There are certain players like Maradona, Zidane, R9, and Ronaldinho who got more media exposure than other genius players like Laudrup, Baggio, Hagi, Stoichkov, etc, it's just that, nothing to do with them getting a worse reputation for unknown reasons after retirement.
Media exposure gets the job done too, which is why Beckham it's more well known than Michael Laudrup worldwide, despite Laudrup being a better player than Beckham IMO.
For example, David Beckham was one of the first european players who became famous in the asian continent before cable tv to watch European football was popular, even more famous than the like of Zidane, Dinho, Romario, R9, Roberto's Carlos, etc, and you can't say he was much better than them as a player, it just happens that Premier League was the first european league that entered the asian market, and Beckham was the poster boy of english football back then.
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The fact is, for all your excuses and equivocations, that my original point was correct. I remember the 80s and the 90s and I know for a fact that some players have greater reputations post retirement and some have lesser. It is a fact. Those reputations also often continue to grow or shrink the further you get away from the player's career.

important
 
Undisputed GOAT. Sealed it with the Arab champions cup. Nobody has won that of the other candidates.
 
RedRonaldo said:
In the past its always the one with the "most" goals, "most" trophies, "most talented, "most" memorable performances etc whose legacy would stays longer. Because when people memories start to fade abit, the only thing which remains strong would be their unmatched records/achievements which solidify their legacy.

Best player with most WC wins - Pele
Best player with most CL wins - Di Stefano
Most career goals in top level - Pele, Puskas, Muller, Eusebio
Most memorable performance - Maradona (86 WC), Cruyff (74), Pele (70)
Most talented - Maradona, Best, Garrincha, Cruyff, Pele
Most Ballon D'ors - Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten
Most dominating - Pele (58-70), Di Stefano (55-60), Maradona (85-90)
Most memorable rivalry - Beckenabuer vs Cruyff (during 70s), Pele vs Maradona (as in GOAT debat)
Most revolutionary - Beckenbauer, Cruyff
Most CL goals - Di Stefano
Most WC goals (all time/single) - Muller / Fontaine, Eusebio
Most Euro goals (all time + single) - Platini

If we translate those to modern days:

Best player with most WC wins - Pele
Best player with most CL wins - Ronaldo, Di Stefano
Most career goals in top level - Ronaldo, Messi, Pele, Romario, Puskas, Muller, Eusebio
Most memorable performance - Maradona (86 WC), Cruyff (74), Pele (70)
Most talented - Messi, Maradona, R9, Best, Garrincha, Cruyff, Pele
Most Ballon D'ors - Messi, Ronaldo, Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten
Most dominating - Messi (07-21), Ronaldo (07-20), Pele (58-70), Di Stefano (55-60), Maradona (85-90)
Most memorable rivalry - Messi vs Ronaldo, Beckenabuer vs Cruyff, Pele vs Maradona
Most revolutionary - Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Ronaldo, Messi
Most CL goals - Ronaldo, Messi (CL format) / Di Stefano (European Cup format)
Most WC goals (all time/single) - Klose, R9, Muller / Fontaine, Eusebio
Most Euro goals (all time/single) - Ronaldo / Platini

There's really no chance his legacy would go down after he retires. And that's not even counting the fact he is by far the most famous/followed person in social media.
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Completely wrong IMO. People don't remember records, with a few exceptions. They remember performances. That's why George Best has an airport named after him some 25 years after he retired. What records does he hold, either in goals or trophies? You mentioned Garrincha, what's the reason people remember him? Records? No, because he gave people joy, hence his nickname

There's every chance CR's rep will recede in the mists of time, because his playing style doesn't capture the imagination. I'm not saying he will be forgotten by any means but there's every chance he won't be as highly viewed in 50 years time as he is now.

Being followed on social media means nothing for posterity, David Beckham and Kevin Keegan were once the most famous footballers in the world.
 
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RedRonaldo said:
What a clutch player. Its not an easy game for him as he has to face against Savic-Neves midfield, with Koulibay in heart of defence man marking him, and under adverse situation with 10 men down too. The opponents are just stronger and better, he basically has to win the game with his own sheer determination. Also ends up beating the likes of Benzema to win the tournament golden boot.
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:lol: :lol:

RedRonaldo said:
In the past its always the one with the "most" goals, "most" trophies, "most talented, "most" memorable performances etc whose legacy would stays longer. Because when people memories start to fade abit, the only thing which remains strong would be their unmatched records/achievements which solidify their legacy.

Best player with most WC wins - Pele
Best player with most CL wins - Di Stefano
Most career goals in top level - Pele, Puskas, Muller, Eusebio
Most memorable performance - Maradona (86 WC), Cruyff (74), Pele (70)
Most talented - Maradona, Best, Garrincha, Cruyff, Pele
Most Ballon D'ors - Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten
Most dominating - Pele (58-70), Di Stefano (55-60), Maradona (85-90)
Most memorable rivalry - Beckenabuer vs Cruyff (during 70s), Pele vs Maradona (as in GOAT debat)
Most revolutionary - Beckenbauer, Cruyff
Most CL goals - Di Stefano
Most WC goals (all time/single) - Muller / Fontaine, Eusebio
Most Euro goals (all time + single) - Platini

If we translate those to modern days:

Best player with most WC wins - Pele
Best player with most CL wins - Ronaldo, Di Stefano
Most career goals in top level - Ronaldo, Messi, Pele, Romario, Puskas, Muller, Eusebio
Most memorable performance - Maradona (86 WC), Cruyff (74), Pele (70)
Most talented - Messi, Maradona, R9, Best, Garrincha, Cruyff, Pele
Most Ballon D'ors - Messi, Ronaldo, Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten
Most dominating - Messi (07-21), Ronaldo (07-20), Pele (58-70), Di Stefano (55-60), Maradona (85-90)
Most memorable rivalry - Messi vs Ronaldo, Beckenabuer vs Cruyff, Pele vs Maradona
Most revolutionary - Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Ronaldo, Messi
Most CL goals - Ronaldo, Messi (CL format) / Di Stefano (European Cup format)
Most WC goals (all time/single) - Klose, R9, Muller / Fontaine, Eusebio
Most Euro goals (all time/single) - Ronaldo / Platini

There's really no chance his legacy would go down after he retires. And that's not even counting the fact he is by far the most famous/followed person in social media.
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:lol::lol:
 
Andrade said:
The fact is, for all your excuses and equivocations, that my original point was correct. I remember the 80s and the 90s and I know for a fact that some players have greater reputations post retirement and some have lesser. It is a fact. Those reputations also often continue to grow or shrink the further you get away from the player's career.

important
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I'm mentioning the reasons for reputations growing or decreasing, just thar simple.

It not just because for extraterrestrial reasons
 
heraklion said:
--Messi's 2022 WC performance is easily one of the most memorable.


20-30 years from now, Ronaldo would be way more irrelevant
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Probably because it's the most recent, and people love to rate recent as either the best or worst ever?

And as for this other line, utter horses!h`t :lol:
 
Andrade said:
Completely wrong IMO. People don't remember records, with a few exceptions. They remember performances.
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This thread is full of utter sh!t.
You think Ronaldo racked up 100s and 100s of goals without any good performances?
 
Sandikan said:
This thread is full of utter sh!t.
You think Ronaldo racked up 100s and 100s of goals without any good performances?
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Problem is people from both sides can't be objective sometimes, which is a very childish trait indeed.

Everything is black and white for a lot of them, which is ridiculous cause you don't expect that from a bunch of grown men in their 40s and 50s, I'd understand if it was teenagers.
 
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This thread is still better than Facebook. I'm getting tired of scrolling down and seeing sponsored pages for Ronaldo Army memes that say "Messi goat but not won world cup by himself? Ronaldo real OGAT who led Portugal to euro now lead Saudi"
 
FrankFoot said:
Problem is people from both sides can't be objective, which is a very childish trait indeed.

Everything is black and white for a lot of them.
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True, and I'll tell you another one that'll come true, in 30 years time both Ronaldo and Messi will be footnotes in football history because there'll be another superstar to eclipse them who likely hasn't been born yet
 
Cr7 has 600 million followers on Instagram alone,over 60 million or so on Twitter. By Far the most famous footballer on the internet. Most emerging young players including United newly signed Striker look up to him. But I am meant to believe on redcafe his influence will diminish when he is done.
hows that really possible?
Nigeria is so far to Portugal even here in this Country CR7 is the most celebrated football player. People legity throw party when Ronaldo scores. Not a Ronaldo fan boy or so but the arguments against Ronaldo greatness are often quite laughable.
People should be more objective in their comments.
 
Red in STL said:
True, and I'll tell you another one that'll come true, in 30 years time both Ronaldo and Messi will be footnotes in football history because there'll be another superstar to eclipse them who likely hasn't been born yet
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Footnotes I do not think. They will be held in as high a regard as Maradona still is today.
 
FrankFoot said:
I'm mentioning the reasons for reputations growing or decreasing, just thar simple.

It not just because for extraterrestrial reasons
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You said, reputations never fade, only grow after retirement. That is objectively false. Sometimes they grow, sometimes they fade.
 
Sandikan said:
Probably because it's the most recent, and people love to rate recent as either the best or worst ever?

And as for this other line, utter horses!h`t :lol:
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Probably, you have not watched the WC and/or a Ronaldo fanboy .. Messi's WC 2022 performance is among the best ever, iconic performances, lots of drama, everything you expect from a GOAT and a crazy WC.

As for the other line, Gerd Muller fans were probably thinking the same way like you in the 70s.
Ronaldo is already irrelevant where his fans can only celebrate things like the mighty Arab Cup and he is acting like he won the WC, I love his antics and 5 minute celebrations when he scores a tap-in or a penalty :lol: Understandable as he had not won anything of note for ages..
 
heraklion said:
Probably, you have not watched the WC and/or a Ronaldo fanboy .. Messi's WC 2022 performance is among the best ever, iconic performances, lots of drama, everything you expect from a GOAT and a crazy WC.

As for the other line, Gerd Muller fans were probably thinking the same way like you in the 70s.
Ronaldo is already irrelevant where his fans can only celebrate things like the mighty Arab Cup and he is acting like he won the WC, I love his antics and 5 minute celebrations when he scores a tap-in or a penalty :lol: Understandable as he had not won anything of note for ages..
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You calling anyone a fanboy is absolutely laughable when you only ever seen to post about Messi and Ronaldo. Get a life.
 
FrankFoot said:
Problem is people from both sides can't be objective sometimes, which is a very childish trait indeed.

Everything is black and white for a lot of them, which is ridiculous cause you don't expect that from a bunch of grown men in their 40s and 50s, I'd understand if it was teenagers.
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The world bows to your extreme maturity in posting hundreds of anonymous messages in a football internet forum. I'm sure that's what all the intellectuals do.

Leave out the 'I'm grown, everyone else is a toddler' bit please. We're all here talking obsessively about a sport that doesn't matter, not dissecting quantum physics.
 
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