Cristiano Ronaldo - Man Utd Player

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the_cliff said:
Allegation.

plural noun: allegations
  1. a claim or assertion that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically one made without proof.
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PhilQ said:
They're allegations though? Ole was speaking about his experience of Ronaldo as a person.
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cyberman said:
The judge has already ruled there isn’t enough evidence to go ahead so what are you expecting to happen?
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Godfather said:
Yeah why aren't we talking more about an allegation that the criminal court has dismissed already
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Life and public discussion thankfully doesn't end when a court decides something. Der Spiegel is a respectable newspaper and their coverage of the subject through football leaks-sourced legal documents was damning. Quotes from the accused himself, that I'm sure most here are already aware of:
It was rough. We didn't change position. 5/7 minutes. She said that she didn't want to, but she made herself available. The whole time it was rough, I turned her onto her side, and it was fast. Maybe she got some bruises when I grabbed her. (...) She didn't want to 'give it to me,' instead she jerked me off. I don't know any more exactly what she said when she was jerking me off. But she kept saying no. 'Don't do it' -- 'I'm not like the others.' I apologized afterwards."
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It's tremendously hard for rape victims to get anyone convicted, let alone when the accused is one of the biggest stars on the planet in a pre-MeToo world.
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
It was done to death a few years ago and the authorities did not pursue charges even when it was revisited. What's left to discuss?
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I don't know - maybe it should at least be included somewhere in the conversation when the whole world seemingly decides to celebrate someone? Once again, I don't want to police people's emotional reaction to Ronaldo returning to United (especially as all this happened at the time he became a Real player), but I can't comprehend the moral dissociation between the recent Mendy events and the CR7 jubilation.

It's a tough situation to resolve and no one's responsibility either, I guess. I'm just posting about what I would have liked to read and discuss those past few days in addition to the legitimate excitation of the whole ordeal. Won't be able to argue much more anyway as I'm reaching my post limit for the day.
 
antk said:
I don't know - maybe it should at least be included somewhere in the conversation when the whole world seemingly decides to celebrate someone? Once again, I don't want to police people's emotional reaction to Ronaldo returning to United (especially as all this happened at the time he became a Real player), but I can't comprehend the moral dissociation between the recent Mendy events and the CR7 jubilation.

It's a tough situation to resolve and no one's responsibility either, I guess. I'm just posting about what I would have liked to read and discuss those past few days in addition to the legitimate excitation of the whole ordeal. Won't be able to argue much more anyway as I'm reaching my post limit for the day.
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Here you go: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/woman-accuses-cristiano-ronaldo-of-rape-cr7-case-only.441825/

Happy reading. Be sure to check out the police report. Or are you referring to the older allegations from Manchester?
 
Brwned said:
I would happily take a bet he's going to do multiple stopovers, beat a couple of men and score this season. He's talking about a completely fictional version of Ronaldo. Like most of those pundits they pay more attention to the Championship than Serie A so they don't really know anything about what Ronaldo plays like on a regular basis these days. They just know he's 36 so they've invented a caricature.
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Brwned? :(
 
cyberman said:
The judge has already ruled there isn’t enough evidence to go ahead so what are you expecting to happen?
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There's a civil case in the US and those have different evidential standards than the criminal case the US judge ruled on. It was a civil suit that got OJ Simpson after the criminal Court acquitted him.

I've always been very uneasy about what I've read about the alleged conduct, I'm surprised it's not been more of a factor in the coverage because it could easily blow up.
 
I was quite disappointed with the Football Weekly Podcast coverage of this.

They said very little about Ronaldo aside from Jonathan Wilson saying he's poor now and is going to take Man Utd backwards, and then they spent ages talking about the baseless rape allegation as if he's guilty.

Just bizarre.
 
Is anyone else still giddy about watching Ronaldo playing.. ffs i feel 80 years younger and i'm not even retired; refreshing Uniteds shop just to buy a shirt. Darn what has this transfer do to me...
 
nickm said:
There's a civil case in the US and those have different evidential standards than the criminal case the US judge ruled on. It was a civil suit that got OJ Simpson after the criminal Court acquitted him.

I've always been very uneasy about what I've read about the alleged conduct, I'm surprised it's not been more of a factor in the coverage because it could easily blow up.
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Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought American civil cases doesn’t cover rape?
From what I read it’s about the NDA, not if Ronaldo is a rapist or not.
Unless I’m wrong of course but I feel people are being very vague about this for a reason and it doesn’t sit right with me
 
antk said:
Life and public discussion thankfully doesn't end when a court decides something. Der Spiegel is a respectable newspaper and their coverage of the subject through football leaks-sourced legal documents was damning. Quotes from the accused himself, that I'm sure most here are already aware of:

It's tremendously hard for rape victims to get anyone convicted, let alone when the accused is one of the biggest stars on the planet in a pre-MeToo world.

I don't know - maybe it should at least be included somewhere in the conversation when the whole world seemingly decides to celebrate someone? Once again, I don't want to police people's emotional reaction to Ronaldo returning to United (especially as all this happened at the time he became a Real player), but I can't comprehend the moral dissociation between the recent Mendy events and the CR7 jubilation.

It's a tough situation to resolve and no one's responsibility either, I guess. I'm just posting about what I would have liked to read and discuss those past few days in addition to the legitimate excitation of the whole ordeal. Won't be able to argue much more anyway as I'm reaching my post limit for the day.
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It's one of those really uncomfortable topics that is also hard to really pick a side one way or another because it's also all unproven/just allegations and all that. You can't just go with the "where there is smoke, there is fire" logic as it genuinely might be a misunderstanding and not the worst, but also you can't ignore it and fully side with him as then actual rape victims get tossed aside for sporting heroes based on ~ nothing but Fandom.

Personally, I've always kind of held the same opinion in general, but you just have to separate the man from the athlete/star. I play fantasy football with NFL players with a good chunk who are probably child or wife beaters in their past. Whatever other demons have never been exposed. Uniteds all time record appearance maker had an 8 year affair with his brothers wife and now has allegations that he's assaulted women? But then again it's just allegations now. And it doesn't take away what he did on the pitch while he played for United, it doesn't mean he did all that stuff during his whole time at United, etc etc. People are flawed, they do good in a lot ways and have their demons too, and I feel like it's hard to make a judgement on things I really know nothing about (especially if whatever has never been proven). We don't watch sports for the people, but for the moments they provide on the pitch and that's literally it. It's absolutely fantastic when you get someone like Rashford or Mata who is so pure and wholesome (from what is portrayed in the media), but for the most part, we know feck all about them.

It's an uncomfortable nagging issue with Ronaldo for sure, but personally that's kind of how I look at it. I'll support Ronaldo the player for United and his footballing achievements, but also hope that the right and just outcome happens (however unlikely one or the other is) off the pitch.
 
Just watched his goals compilation on MUTV, even back then he was a proper penalty box scorer, he'll score a shed load over the next 3 seasons, can not wait.
 
antk said:
Disappointed to read so little discussion, both in the media and on RedCafe, around Ronaldo's rape allegations. Especially in the context of Mendy being incarcerated just a few days before.

It's understandable that the player coming back brings powerful emotions to fans but I would have liked not to have OGS praise him as a human being.
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Back to the little citeh forums for you
 
antk said:
Disappointed to read so little discussion, both in the media and on RedCafe, around Ronaldo's rape allegations. Especially in the context of Mendy being incarcerated just a few days before.

It's understandable that the player coming back brings powerful emotions to fans but I would have liked not to have OGS praise him as a human being.
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This is what happens when we allow randos to post in the mains.
 
bosnian_red said:
It's one of those really uncomfortable topics that is also hard to really pick a side one way or another because it's also all unproven/just allegations and all that. You can't just go with the "where there is smoke, there is fire" logic as it genuinely might be a misunderstanding and not the worst, but also you can't ignore it and fully side with him as then actual rape victims get tossed aside for sporting heroes based on ~ nothing but Fandom.

Personally, I've always kind of held the same opinion in general, but you just have to separate the man from the athlete/star. I play fantasy football with NFL players with a good chunk who are probably child or wife beaters in their past. Whatever other demons have never been exposed. Uniteds all time record appearance maker had an 8 year affair with his brothers wife and now has allegations that he's assaulted women? But then again it's just allegations now. And it doesn't take away what he did on the pitch while he played for United, it doesn't mean he did all that stuff during his whole time at United, etc etc. People are flawed, they do good in a lot ways and have their demons too, and I feel like it's hard to make a judgement on things I really know nothing about (especially if whatever has never been proven). We don't watch sports for the people, but for the moments they provide on the pitch and that's literally it. It's absolutely fantastic when you get someone like Rashford or Mata who is so pure and wholesome (from what is portrayed in the media), but for the most part, we know feck all about them.

It's an uncomfortable nagging issue with Ronaldo for sure, but personally that's kind of how I look at it. I'll support Ronaldo the player for United and his footballing achievements, but also hope that the right and just outcome happens (however unlikely one or the other is) off the pitch.
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Good post.
 
bosnian_red said:
It's one of those really uncomfortable topics that is also hard to really pick a side one way or another because it's also all unproven/just allegations and all that. You can't just go with the "where there is smoke, there is fire" logic as it genuinely might be a misunderstanding and not the worst, but also you can't ignore it and fully side with him as then actual rape victims get tossed aside for sporting heroes based on ~ nothing but Fandom.

Personally, I've always kind of held the same opinion in general, but you just have to separate the man from the athlete/star. I play fantasy football with NFL players with a good chunk who are probably child or wife beaters in their past. Whatever other demons have never been exposed. Uniteds all time record appearance maker had an 8 year affair with his brothers wife and now has allegations that he's assaulted women? But then again it's just allegations now. And it doesn't take away what he did on the pitch while he played for United, it doesn't mean he did all that stuff during his whole time at United, etc etc. People are flawed, they do good in a lot ways and have their demons too, and I feel like it's hard to make a judgement on things I really know nothing about (especially if whatever has never been proven). We don't watch sports for the people, but for the moments they provide on the pitch and that's literally it. It's absolutely fantastic when you get someone like Rashford or Mata who is so pure and wholesome (from what is portrayed in the media), but for the most part, we know feck all about them.

It's an uncomfortable nagging issue with Ronaldo for sure, but personally that's kind of how I look at it. I'll support Ronaldo the player for United and his footballing achievements, but also hope that the right and just outcome happens (however unlikely one or the other is) off the pitch.
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Very well said. Much needed nuance on this topic compared to what we're getting in here right now.
 
Figgins said:
Is anyone else still giddy about watching Ronaldo playing.. ffs i feel 80 years younger and i'm not even retired; refreshing Uniteds shop just to buy a shirt. Darn what has this transfer do to me...
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yeah, I grew up as a youngster watching Ronaldo and he gave me so many great memories. I just can’t wait to see him in a united shirt again. Old Trafford is going to be a fortress as every game the fans will be bouncing.
 
Not saying it will happen, but IF Ronaldo stays for 3 seasons scoring 40 goals/year he could break Rooney's all-time Man United top scorer record :eek:

Or at the very least we expect him to be scoring around 30 goals/year, so if he stays for 3 seasons he will hit the 200 mark, putting him 5th on the list only behind Rooney, Charlton, Law and Rowley. Even doing that and along with being Real Madrid record scorer by some distance, international footballs record scorer and scoring 100+ goals for Juve is scary!
 
bosnian_red said:
It's one of those really uncomfortable topics that is also hard to really pick a side one way or another because it's also all unproven/just allegations and all that. You can't just go with the "where there is smoke, there is fire" logic as it genuinely might be a misunderstanding and not the worst, but also you can't ignore it and fully side with him as then actual rape victims get tossed aside for sporting heroes based on ~ nothing but Fandom.

Personally, I've always kind of held the same opinion in general, but you just have to separate the man from the athlete/star. I play fantasy football with NFL players with a good chunk who are probably child or wife beaters in their past. Whatever other demons have never been exposed. Uniteds all time record appearance maker had an 8 year affair with his brothers wife and now has allegations that he's assaulted women? But then again it's just allegations now. And it doesn't take away what he did on the pitch while he played for United, it doesn't mean he did all that stuff during his whole time at United, etc etc. People are flawed, they do good in a lot ways and have their demons too, and I feel like it's hard to make a judgement on things I really know nothing about (especially if whatever has never been proven). We don't watch sports for the people, but for the moments they provide on the pitch and that's literally it. It's absolutely fantastic when you get someone like Rashford or Mata who is so pure and wholesome (from what is portrayed in the media), but for the most part, we know feck all about them.

It's an uncomfortable nagging issue with Ronaldo for sure, but personally that's kind of how I look at it. I'll support Ronaldo the player for United and his footballing achievements, but also hope that the right and just outcome happens (however unlikely one or the other is) off the pitch.
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Yep.

It's certainly something that ameliorated my excitement when we signed him somewhat as it's a very serious and very credible ongoing accusation. It's something that should be acknowledged and reported on, probably more so than it has been in the immediate coverage of his re-signing. It's certainly something outlets covering the football story should be aware of in terms of the language they use to describe Ronaldo.

At the same time once we've acknowledged it there's not much more we can do pending further developments. But he is going to be a central figure for the team we support during that time, so we're going to have to compartmentalise it and separate the accusation from the purely sporting factors, which will inevitably see us celebrate things he does on the pitch. Given football often acts as an escape from the "real world" for people, we can't constantly check and qualify every moment of joy it brings with reference to those real world concerns.

The worry is that a lot of United fans (or perhaps more accurately, Ronaldo fans) don't compartmentalise these things, invest too much in him as a person (or rather the idea they have of him as a person) and then carry that into the discussion around the real-world issue. I have zero doubt that some United fans will now downplay or argue against this serious accusation simply because of a very tribal (and stupid) loyalty to someone they don't actually know. In fact I've already seen people who have raised the issue online receive abuse from Ronaldo fans, something that probably isn't helped by more mainstream outlets not acknowledging it more.
 
Alfie092 said:
Not saying it will happen, but IF Ronaldo stays for 3 seasons scoring 40 goals/year he could break Rooney's all-time Man United top scorer record :eek:

Or at the very least we expect him to be scoring around 30 goals/year, so if he stays for 3 seasons he will hit the 200 mark, putting him 5th on the list only behind Rooney, Charlton, Law and Rowley. Even doing that and along with being Real Madrid record scorer by some distance, international footballs record scorer and scoring 100+ goals for Juve is scary!
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Tbh mate, my feeling is that this is his plan. He wants to come here and do two things:

a) break Rooney's record; &

b) match or surpass Messi's 6 (likely 7 now due to the Copa America win) Ballon d'Ors.

I think he's going to be here for the three seasons at a minimum and if we're going well, I think he's getting another year or two on top of that.

It's difficult and for literally any other person in any other comparative field I'd have said it was impossible, but Ronaldo defies convention. He's still having the same productivity at the very top level as he did when he was at his peak. And looking at videos of his time at Juve this season just gone (which didn't just include his goals, but also his all-round play) his acceleration and speed is still pretty much enough for anyone he came up against. He isn't going to be found physically wanting at all.

The hope for me is that just like Cantona, he becomes the totem around which this young team grows. And if that does happen then honestly, I can't help but tip my hat to the club for it. It's a potential masterstroke and his impact could reverberate for years after he's gone and would solidify his legend status at Utd, perhaps even putting him on that hallowed pantheon which tbh I never thought he would have reached after he left and had his peak years with Madrid.
 
Any chance you guys can do a seperate thread for the rape allegation stuff?. It would ne nice to keep this thread for a celebration of his return.
 
RetroStu said:
Any chance you guys can do a seperate thread for the rape allegation stuff?. It would ne nice to keep this thread for a celebration of his return.
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Anyone sullying this return with such talk should be banned out of dodge.
Mendy yes, totally different scenario.
 
Never thought I was going to post something like this on a football forum but I've been through what him and Mendy are going now, and I was fecking 18.

I got drunk, a girl got me in a room, locked the door, pulled down the curtains and we all know what happened from there.

The next morning we got together along with our group in a cabin's garden and she tried to kiss me, I refused (not remembering a single god damn thing from the night before), she got upset and started to run the rape rumor around.

What happened was absolutely diabolical. I remember her father coming to my dad's house, initially not wanting to involve the police as the families knew each other, and asking my dad how did it happen and if he raised a fecking rapist.
Obviously other people found out and it soon got to the police. I wouldn't want this even to my biggest enemy, you're fecking ashamed to speak with anyone, especially when you know you didn't do it.

I was isolated in school, forced to go to the psychologist three times a week and the guy was kinda "acting" his job and trying to sound like the good guy. He even tried preparing me for going to prison, the fecking idiot.
After about 6 months of ordeal, the idiot girl came out and admitted she lied. I look back at it and it looks funny, but I wouldn't want my kid going through it, feck that.

I know Ronaldo and Mendy might have done it, who knows, I'm not one of those idiots who thinks football players should be placed on a pedestal and be above everyone else. Out of my own experience I won't believe it until I see it with my own eyes or see the hard evidence.

Having seen the lengths a girl is capable of going to just to keep her so called "integrity" alive, I just don't trust these kind of persons coming out saying they were abused by the most famous people on the planet, out of everyone else available.

I know I'm probably seeing it from the wrong end of it, having been through it the nasty way. We all know that famous people might use their stardom to lure girls towards things they don't want to and that's fecking disgusting, but in regards to Ronaldo coming here, I don't think we should sweat about it until it's proven or not.
 
sullydnl said:
Yep.

It's certainly something that ameliorated my excitement when we signed him somewhat as it's a very serious and very credible ongoing accusation. It's something that should be acknowledged and reported on, probably more so than it has been in the immediate coverage of his re-signing. It's certainly something outlets covering the football story should be aware of in terms of the language they use to describe Ronaldo.

At the same time once we've acknowledged it there's not much more we can do pending further developments. But he is going to be a central figure for the team we support during that time, so we're going to have to compartmentalise it and separate the accusation from the purely sporting factors, which will inevitably see us celebrate things he does on the pitch. Given football often acts as an escape from the "real world" for people, we can't constantly check and qualify every moment of joy it brings with reference to those real world concerns.

The worry is that a lot of United fans (or perhaps more accurately, Ronaldo fans) don't compartmentalise these things, invest too much in him as a person (or rather the idea they have of him as a person) and then carry that into the discussion around the real-world issue. I have zero doubt that some United fans will now downplay or argue against this serious accusation simply because of a very tribal (and stupid) loyalty to someone they don't actually know. In fact I've already seen people who have raised the issue online receive abuse from Ronaldo fans, something that probably isn't helped by more mainstream outlets not acknowledging it more.
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Yep for sure. It can't be ignored, and the way the media has been with it is essentially as if it's been airbrushed away from him which you just can't do - but like you say, past acknowledging it, there's nothing anyone can or should do really. None of us really know much about the situation, and we likely never will so it's also weird to just make your mind up about the player and vilify him (but especially likewise for Kathryn, and anyone like her), but generally it's just a difficult situation to separate entirely which is what's needed.
 
It was 12 years ago. The investigation was already dropped because there was no case. Its now in a civil court meaning the woman is probably going to become a very rich woman at some point in the future when its settled out of court.

Innocent until proven guilty.
Again make another thread if people want to discuss this.
 
RetroStu said:
It was 12 years ago. The investigation was already dropped because there was no case. Its now in a civil court meaning the woman is probably going to become a very rich woman at some point in the future when its settled out of court.

Innocent until proven guilty.
Again make another thread if people want to discuss this.
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There is a thread where people can continue the discussion if they like.

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Here you go: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/woman-accuses-cristiano-ronaldo-of-rape-cr7-case-only.441825/
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RetroStu said:
It was 12 years ago. The investigation was already dropped because there was no case. Its now in a civil court meaning the woman is probably going to become a very rich woman at some point in the future when its settled out of court.

Innocent until proven guilty.
Again make another thread if people want to discuss this.
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This.
 
I am 90% happy Ronaldo is back. I think he's going to improve the team, the results, the mentality and work ethic of everyone.

I will be 100% happy if he agrees to burn a Madrid shirt on the pitch before hia first game.
 

What is this? Couldn’t be true, surely?
 
antk said:
Disappointed to read so little discussion, both in the media and on RedCafe, around Ronaldo's rape allegations. Especially in the context of Mendy being incarcerated just a few days before.

It's understandable that the player coming back brings powerful emotions to fans but I would have liked not to have OGS praise him as a human being.
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There are several threads and discussions on these very forums discussing this very topic dating back years.

I'm not sure what else there is to discuss surrounding these events.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49078808

This article contains the legal conclusion to this entire discussion. There has been no new information since then
 
Tom Cato said:
There are several threads and discussions on these very forums discussing this very topic dating back years.

I'm not sure what else there is to discuss surrounding these events.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49078808

This article contains the legal conclusion to this entire discussion. There has been no new information since then
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That isn't the legal conclusion. There is legal action ongoing.

But agree with the people who say this thread should probably be kept separate. It's a topic for the CE forum.
 
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