Cristiano Ronaldo (I stay)

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No Idea For Nickname said:

There is some excelent stuff they are smoking in Napoli.
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What is it with everyone expecting us to pay wages for other clubs? Why is he even expecting a full salary from anyone? This is one of the most tone deaf transfer sagas we've seen. Guy wants to forcefully end his contract but also wants to enjoy the benefits of staying.
 
worldinmotion66 said:
It's not beyond the realms of possibility that he stays and does well. But I think we'd have to adapt our system to accommodate him.

With De Gea's poor distribution and a lack of quality replacements available, it might make sense to play more direct up to a player that's decent in the air and at holding up the ball. Play for the second ball press and counter quickly, rather than pressing relentlessly from the front.

It's not the progressive football we want but with Martial's inability to stay fit, and time running out in the transfer market, we might just have to compromise.

Ideally, you disrespect the club like this, and you're gone. But no one fecking wants him. We're in a difficult situation.
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Yes, Martial is a major headache. Even if he does stay fit, I hardly trust him.

Still, I'd say it makes more sense for ETH to insist on his preferred system rather than making any compromises. Why? Because - surely - his employers are willing to give him some time. They - surely - don't expect him to deliver anything major this season. It is (that word the Caf hates) a transition.

DDG's distribution (and sweeper play) is shite, no doubt. But then again, he hasn't ever had to do it: it's actually new to him (as something he needs to do consistently). In all probability he will not become great or even good at it - but he could become serviceable. And then we spend this season working on bringing in a long-term replacement.

I say stick with the pressing system ETH actually prefers/wants to implement long-term. If Ronaldo can't handle it, feck him. Play someone who can - even if that player is a shite finisher or shite/inexperienced in other aspects. Again - this season should be about building foundations. It makes very little sense to put the foundation building on hold just to accommodate certain players - I mean, we can consider doing that if we're actually in danger of going down but not before.
 
Only four days left. God please make some club stupid enough to take him before 31 Aug
 
worldinmotion66 said:
It's not beyond the realms of possibility that he stays and does well. But I think we'd have to adapt our system to accommodate him.

With De Gea's poor distribution and a lack of quality replacements available, it might make sense to play more direct up to a player that's decent in the air and at holding up the ball. Play for the second ball press and counter quickly, rather than pressing relentlessly from the front.

It's not the progressive football we want but with Martial's inability to stay fit, and time running out in the transfer market, we might just have to compromise.

Ideally, you disrespect the club like this, and you're gone. But no one fecking wants him. We're in a difficult situation.
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Not too sure about this. Even if we wanted to accommodate him this isn't how we;d achieve it. He isn't some aerial targetman. Actually very below average in that aspect. Good recent example is when he lost the ball on the prior possession Brentford scored. Wasn't an isolated incident. He doesn't play well with his back to goal. Ronaldo at the moment is like an inside forward masquerading as a central forward because of age.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Yes, Martial is a major headache. Even if he does stay fit, I hardly trust him.

Still, I'd say it makes more sense for ETH to insist on his preferred system rather than making any compromises. Why? Because - surely - his employers are willing to give him some time. They - surely - don't expect him to deliver anything major this season. It is (that word the Caf hates) a transition.

DDG's distribution (and sweeper play) is shite, no doubt. But then again, he hasn't ever had to do it: it's actually new to him (as something he needs to do consistently). In all probability he will not become great or even good at it - but he could become serviceable. And then we spend this season working on bringing in a long-term replacement.

I say stick with the pressing system ETH actually prefers/wants to implement long-term. If Ronaldo can't handle it, feck him. Play someone who can - even if that player is a shite finisher or shite/inexperienced in other aspects. Again - this season should be about building foundations. It makes very little sense to put the foundation building on hold just to accommodate certain players - I mean, we can consider doing that if we're actually in danger of going down but not before.
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Yeah I get that, and I'm of the same thinking to a degree. But the media circus that surrounds ronaldo will bring huge extra pressure every time we don't win a match. I'd rather we just let him go on a free, but I don't see that happening either.

If he can agree to being a bit part player then that would be great, but he'll still never be able to press to the levels that the system demands. We need him gone but I think we'll be stuck with him and we'll have no choice but to use him.
 
Greck said:
What is it with everyone expecting us to pay wages for other clubs? Why is he even expecting a full salary from anyone? This is one of the most tone deaf transfer sagas we've seen. Guy wants to forcefully end his contract but also wants to enjoy the benefits of staying.
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Tbf he did request, apparently, that Utd terminate his contract on his first day back here this season. Perhaps we missed a trick there.
 
I bet ronaldos ego is taking a beating.

Absolutely Nobody wants him. If he just lowered his wages and he'd get a move no bother.
 
George The Best said:
Tbf he did request, apparently, that Utd terminate his contract on his first day back here this season. Perhaps we missed a trick there.
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On what terms though? Was he asking to be paid the rest of his salary or was he genuinely ready to forfeit it? The way his salary issue keeps resurfacing it seems he hasn't forfeited or given up on being paid on a similar rate as his current deal
 
Greck said:
Not too sure about this. Even if we wanted to accommodate him this isn't how we;d achieve it. He isn't some aerial targetman. Actually very below average in that aspect. Good recent example is when he lost the ball on the possession Brentford scored their first. He doesn't play well with his back to goal. Ronaldo at the moment is like an inside forward masquerading as a central forward because of age.
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He's a target that will at least compete more than our other options because of his size alone. The real press comes for the second ball when the defenders more often than not win the first header. Then we've inadvertently moved the ball into midfield and transition from there. It's just an idea, I don't know if it would be effective.

Again, I'd rather not and I'd prefer him gone, or at the very least in a bit part, cameo role. But it seems unlikely that he'll be leaving now.
 
Greck said:
What is it with everyone expecting us to pay wages for other clubs? Why is he even expecting a full salary from anyone? This is one of the most tone deaf transfer sagas we've seen. Guy wants to forcefully end his contract but also wants to enjoy the benefits of staying.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: United can - and definitely should - accommodate him 100% in terms of letting him leave. Anywhere he wants, as far as I'm concerned: if Chelsea are stupid enough to take him, let them.

But we should absolutely not - in any way - accommodate him in terms of effectively paying for his transfer away from United.

If someone has to bankroll the move (to a club that is not willing to match his salary or cough up market price for the transfer itself), that someone should be him not us.

The potential (likely) problems associated with him staying against his will (tantrums, so-called toxicity) are obvious. But we have to be able to handle this. If we can't, we don't have the right people in charge (Arnold, Murtough) - and that's a much bigger problem than Ronaldo.

We aren't in the business of catering for Ronaldo - we're in the business of rebuilding a whole structure in order to become competitive again. If Ronaldo stands in the way of the necessary "process", he's collateral damage as far as I'm concerned. His Instagram fans may think he's bigger than Manchester United - but he isn't. I think (hope) Richard Arnold knows this too - if he doesn't, we're fecked.
 
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worldinmotion66 said:
He's a target that will at least compete more than our other options because of his size alone. The real press comes for the second ball when the defenders more often than not win the first header. Then we've inadvertently moved the ball into midfield and transition from there. It's just an idea, I don't know if it would be effective.

Again, I'd rather not and I'd prefer him gone, or at the very least in a bit part, cameo role. But it seems unlikely that he'll be leaving now.
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His size doesnt count for much when talking about his targetman ability. He isn't the best outlet at the club, not good enough to resort to that strategy. His weakness with his back to goal is made worse by being allergic to holding up the ball. Prefers to go for goal before anyone can arrive. This one is part why he can't find chemistry with anyone. He's out there playing his own system.
 
worldinmotion66 said:
We need him gone but I think we'll be stuck with him and we'll have no choice but to use him.
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It's a very difficult situation - but let's call it a test: how our (supposed) new structure (ETH - Murtough - Arnold) cope with this conundrum will tell us something (perhaps a great deal) about what the future holds.

As far as I'm concerned, it's actually relatively simple: if ETH is backed by Murtough/Arnold, Ronaldo has no power.

We all know that is isn't actually that simple - but, again, that's the test. Deal with it. These people are in charge of Manchester United - it's not supposed to be an easy job.
 
worldinmotion66 said:
Yeah I get that, and I'm of the same thinking to a degree. But the media circus that surrounds ronaldo will bring huge extra pressure every time we don't win a match. I'd rather we just let him go on a free, but I don't see that happening either.

If he can agree to being a bit part player then that would be great, but he'll still never be able to press to the levels that the system demands. We need him gone but I think we'll be stuck with him and we'll have no choice but to use him.
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Why would the club keep a player who's a) the highest paid, and b) they don't plan to use? Doesn't that sound ridiculous?
If they don't play to play him -- sell him, loan him, whatever. It's not a difficult concept.
 
steffyr2 said:
Why would the club keep a player who's a) the highest paid, and b) they don't plan to use? Doesn't that sound ridiculous?
If they don't play to play him -- sell him, loan him, whatever. It's not a difficult concept.
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450m insta followers
 
He's being an idiot if he's expecting his full salary away from Man Utd next year.

If the main thing he wants is to compete for trophies and play in the CL, seems like there's clubs who could offer that but not on his current salary. He has enough money already.
 
Greck said:
His size doesnt count for much when talking about his targetman ability. He isn't the best outlet at the club, not good enough to resort to that strategy. His weakness with his back to goal is made worse by being allergic to holding up the ball. Prefers to go for goal before anyone can arrive. This one is part why he can't find chemistry with anyone. He's out there playing his own system.
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He isn't a natural striker/CF/central attacker.

His best role - theoretically - is still as a wide forward, making dangerous runs into the box. But he can't play that role in any plausible setup: you can't afford to have a poacher (meaning: a player who is virtually good for nothing else than finding the right positions in or close to the box and grabbing goals) playing out wide in any kind of realistic contemporary setup.

Maybe if you had prime Marcelo on his flank and prime Benzema in the middle - and a first class midfield combination of some kind. And an overall very good team in every other position.

(Hint: that ain't United)

And even in that scenario, Ronaldo is now 3-4 years closer to retirement than he was when he last played that role.

He's a poacher who ideally should be starting as a (left) wide forward. That's a highly specialized role - to say the least. And one that requires a supporting cast that's - well - just utterly unrealistic, really.
 
steffyr2 said:
Why would the club keep a player who's a) the highest paid, and b) they don't plan to use? Doesn't that sound ridiculous?
If they don't play to play him -- sell him, loan him, whatever. It's not a difficult concept.
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That's all obvious. But his agent has been whoring him around Europe all summer and no one actually wants him. You can't just get rid of a player simply because you don't want him when he has a contract, otherwise we wouldn't have many others still on the books.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Agreed.

It's mostly based on the "no Ronaldo = 18 less goals = relegation struggle" logic. Which doesn't deserve any serious response, really.
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Yeah, i don't really understand it but anyway. We're seriously short on attacking options, even moreso if martial continues to be a sicknote. Hope fully we can get some signings across.
 
worldinmotion66 said:
That's all obvious. But his agent has been whoring him around Europe all summer and no one actually wants him. You can't just get rid of a player simply because you don't want him when he has a contract, otherwise we wouldn't have many others still on the books.
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He plays for Real Madrid, then Juventus, then Utd -- and now no one wants him. That's quite a cliff to fall off.

Why do you say his agent was "whoring him around" when you're also saying Utd doesn't want him? What is the correct thing to do, in your opinion? Seppuku?
 
Chesterlestreet said:
He isn't a natural striker/CF/central attacker.

His best role - theoretically - is still as a wide forward, making dangerous runs into the box. But he can't play that role in any plausible setup: you can't afford to have a poacher (meaning: a player who is virtually good for nothing else than finding the right positions in or close to the box and grabbing goals) playing out wide in any kind of realistic contemporary setup.

Maybe if you had prime Marcelo on his flank and prime Benzema in the middle - and a first class midfield combination of some kind. And an overall very good team in every other position.

(Hint: that ain't United)

And even in that scenario, Ronaldo is now 3-4 years closer to retirement than he was when he last played that role.

He's a poacher who ideally should be starting as a (left) wide forward. That's a highly specialized role - to say the least. And one that requires a supporting cast that's - well - just utterly unrealistic, really.
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I agree with a lot but his best role isn't out wide, it hasn't been for a long time, his best role is as a poacher playing centrally with a partner like he did with Benzema. On paper a Ronaldo- Martial duo works for Ronaldo.
Martial can do the back to goal play, allowing Ronaldo to face goal and poach. But we shouldn't be building around a 37 year old though.
 
steffyr2 said:
He plays for Real Madrid, then Juventus, then Utd -- and now no one wants him. That's quite a cliff to fall off.
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Yeah - but do you believe City were actually, genuinely interested in buying Ronaldo last summer?

If they weren't (which I very much suspect myself) - then the reality is that United were the only club stupid enough to offer him a 500k p/w contract, and that we did so for reasons that had nothing to do with proper management of the football side of a football club.

In other words, if you're trying to paint a picture of Ronaldo being highly sought-after by a number of clubs last summer - I don't think that's accurate. Possibly even completely false.

And it's obviously even less accurate now.
 
Trex said:
I agree with a lot but his best role isn't out wide, it hasn't been for a long time, his best role is as a poacher playing centrally with a partner like he did with Benzema. On paper a Ronaldo- Martial duo works for Ronaldo.
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Well, that's possibly just semantics (nominal positions) - you need to give me the whole XI: let's say we play the Ronaldo-Martial duo, as you put it. What does the rest of the XI look like? The starting/default formation?
 
Theonas said:
Former players admire him and praise his character. If you don't respect and admire Ronaldo's work ethic and professionalism especially for someone like Keane, then you are just blind. But that has nothing to do with how "likable" he was. You are mistaking the respect he gets for adulation. The former is earned through being a professional and for bringing high value, the latter is not. He chose to build his career on numbers and hard cold facts or whatever you want to call them, fair enough! Impressive and all that and the man achieved insane things and pushed himself to amazing levels. But likewise, you won't get that likability in reverse, you will get respect and appreciation for what you bring... Once that's gone, there will be no love left.
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I disagree with your final short sentence, but everything else is so on point that's it's actually amazing. He has a peculiar persona and it's a divisive persona too, and what he achieved throughout his career, in my view, has much more to do with his mind and his profile than his technical abilities. But he built himself this way for his own personal reasons and it's a part of the (good spectacle too). Much like Djokovic, in example, what I really enjoy watching in him is just his brain and his persona, specially as years have gone by and he's gotten older. But the way he is, I can understand if he rubs someone the wrong way, and I can see the odd player here and there not taking a liking to him. Great post.
 
TMDaines said:
Pep thought they had him before United swooped. It is complete tinfoil hat stuff to claim they weren't.
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You are right. Pep talked on the phone with Ronaldo and explained to him what his role will be in his system. Reliable sources have confirmed this.

People confuse City not wanting to pay a fee as them not wanting him. The truth is that Juventus were in shambles post-covid and had to offload him. City were willing to take on his massive salary but were not willing to pay a fee for a 36 year old. Juventus would have let him go for free if United didn't step in.
 
Trex said:
I agree with a lot but his best role isn't out wide, it hasn't been for a long time, his best role is as a poacher playing centrally with a partner like he did with Benzema. On paper a Ronaldo- Martial duo works for Ronaldo.
Martial can do the back to goal play, allowing Ronaldo to face goal and poach. But we shouldn't be building around a 37 year old though.
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I dont think it means his best role is wide. It means his skillset is that of a converted wide player. Causing problems to accommodate. Building an attack with no hold up in the middle, playing a 433 with no central link up support
 
2nd Sept 2022 PR Newswire:

Ronaldo: It was all fake news. I have always loved Manchester. I want to win trophies here at Manchester. I have always wanted to spend the rest of my career here. Maybe a manager one day? It was all fake news that I wanted to leave.
Cristiano, why always so polemic?
 
bakalhau said:
I disagree with your final short sentence, but everything else is so on point that's it's actually amazing. He has a peculiar persona and it's a divisive persona too, and what he achieved throughout his career, in my view, has much more to do with his mind and his profile than his technical abilities. But he built himself this way for his own personal reasons and it's a part of the (good spectacle too). Much like Djokovic, in example, what I really enjoy watching in him is just his brain and his persona, specially as years have gone by and he's gotten older. But the way he is, I can understand if he rubs someone the wrong way, and I can see the odd player here and there not taking a liking to him. Great post.
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Great comparison! Djokovic is indeed very similar. He never had the flair and the aesthetics of Federer. His achievements and numbers are extraordinary which is why if you are a tennis fan and you do not respect Djokovic, you are just being bitter. However, it is clear that he doesn't enjoy the same adulation and love that Federer did. It's always peculiar to me that fans of Ronaldo or Djokovic keep making arguments for why these athletes should be liked. Likability is instinctive, it's not rational. Admiration can be rational but not adulation. To me, this means that likability should be accepted because it's a feeling that we can't control. We can only use it to understand what appeals to the larger section of the public and if we look at the pattern of Ronaldo and Djokovic, one thing is clear, they are likable of course but there is always a caveat with them, there is always a need to justify their achievements through numbers. No one has to justify Maradona's achievement through numbers and argue why he should be revered and worshipped, people just do.

My own interpretation of it is that, at the core, athletes that are more "mechanical" or "engineered" (I really can't thing of a better word) will always divide opinion because there is something missing. We love football from a very young age, we love playing on the playground and showing off skills, dribbling, passing, playing! When someone make the sports more pragmatic and more targeted, it just goes against the original reason we love the sport. Of course, we learn that these aesthetic skills need to be matched with productivity and value which is why athletes like Ronaldo and Djokovic get a lot fans. But they will always be less adored and revered than those who have similar productivity but also remind us of the things we loved about the game before we understood it's about results and numbers.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Yeah - but do you believe City were actually, genuinely interested in buying Ronaldo last summer?
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Yes. They said as much themselves. They were desperate for a goalscorer, missed out on Kane, missed out on whatever other options they had, and by the end of the window their options were Cristiano or no one. They'd rather sign him at the time.

As it turned out, they were more than fine with no one...
 
Theonas said:
Great comparison! Djokovic is indeed very similar. He never had the flair and the aesthetics of Federer. His achievements and numbers are extraordinary which is why if you are a tennis fan and you do not respect Djokovic, you are just being bitter. However, it is clear that he doesn't enjoy the same adulation and love that Federer did. It's always peculiar to me that fans of Ronaldo or Djokovic keep making arguments for why these athletes should be liked. Likability is instinctive, it's not rational. Admiration can be rational but not adulation. To me, this means that likability should be accepted because it's a feeling that we can't control. We can only use it to understand what appeals to the larger section of the public and if we look at the pattern of Ronaldo and Djokovic, one thing is clear, they are likable of course but there is always a caveat with them, there is always a need to justify their achievements through numbers. No one has to justify Maradona's achievement through numbers and argue why he should be revered and worshipped, people just do.

My own interpretation of it is that, at the core, athletes that are more "mechanical" or "engineered" (I really can't thing of a better word) will always divide opinion because there is something missing. We love football from a very young age, we love playing on the playground and showing off skills, dribbling, passing, playing! When someone make the sports more pragmatic and more targeted, it just goes against the original reason we love the sport. Of course, we learn that these aesthetic skills need to be matched with productivity and value which is why athletes like Ronaldo and Djokovic get a lot fans. But they will always be less adored and revered than those who have similar productivity but also remind us of the things we loved about the game before we understood it's about results and numbers.
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I'd say younger version of Ronaldo is very exciting to watch, so many tricks, with electrifying footwork and speed etc while the older version of him is more comparable to Djokovic in tennis, and mostly about mentality and consistence to reach such extraordinary numbers and achievements.
 
spiriticon said:
We shouldn't be paying a single penny of his salary if he goes out on loan.
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Something is wrong with this world if we need to pay a guy who wants to leave and is contracted to us, his salary when he is on loan. If he wants to leave isn't he the one who should be making the sacrifices?
 
Its annoying because he isnt leaving, but its also a little funny to see him getting rejected by everyone.. Guy was convinced clubs would be lining up for him..

He'll stay.. hopefully on the bench and not on the pitch.
 
prateik said:
Its annoying because he isnt leaving, but its also a little funny to see him getting rejected by everyone.. Guy was convinced clubs would be lining up for him..

He'll stay.. hopefully on the bench and not on the pitch.
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You know..as an outsider (not a fan of United), it would be very interesting if he sits on the bench and United loses/draws, the huge over-reaction on why he is on the bench by people like goldbridge, Rio and certain members here will be fun to watch. Not so fun if you are a through and through United fan though
 
Swoobs said:
You know..as an outsider (not a fan of United), it would be very interesting if he sits on the bench and United loses/draws, the huge over-reaction on why he is on the bench by people like goldbridge, Rio and certain members here will be fun to watch. Not so fun if you are a through and through United fan though
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I, and many others, are pretty sick of the Ronaldo-show. Hope he finds a club for all our sakes.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Well, that's possibly just semantics (nominal positions) - you need to give me the whole XI: let's say we play the Ronaldo-Martial duo, as you put it. What does the rest of the XI look like? The starting/default formation?
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A 442 diamond.
 
He needs to acknowledge his current level and take a pay cut to go back to Sporting.
 
EtH said:
He needs to acknowledge his current level and take a pay cut to go back to Sporting.
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His ego wont allow it. If he was to take what for him would a a token salary say 50-100k a week. Maybe more clubs would be interested. Also joel glazer doesnt want him to leave, commerically too imoprtant. The same joel who thought martial was the next pele and gave him a 230k a week salary.

Utd arent going to let him to for free. We are stuck with one another.
 
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