Cristiano Ronaldo (I stay)

[troylocker]

A long rant to basically say we got worse last season so must have been Ronaldo. I thought we moved past the stupidity of that argument by the end of the season but now we're seeing it again and again as posters spit at their keyboards in a rage

It's amusing because the reality is the opposite. Ronaldo came too deep last season for ETH football, Haller is far more of a predator up top who waits for the ball to be delivered. Ronaldo can without a doubt replicate Hallers role he just can't do it every game as his legs are gone.

He'll be off anyway but if he stays some of you are going to look stupid (again).

No he can't.

Pressings/90 in the CL (only available stats I have for Ajax) last season:
Haller 16,9
Ronaldo 6,3

It isn't possible to play with a striker profile like that if you want to play progressive and dominant football. You need all your players to work collectively (for 90 minutes) when not in possession.

 

[Smores]

No he can't.

Pressings/90 in the CL (only available stats I have for Ajax) last season:
Haller 16,9
Ronaldo 6,3

It isn't possible to play with a striker profile like that if you want to play progressive and dominant football. You need all your players to work collectively (for 90 minutes) when not in possession.

What were Hallers stats at West Ham and how much distance did both cover? He was static and never pressed but was able to when actually in a pressing system.

We weren't a pressing unit last season so it's ridiculous comparison. We all repeatedly witnessed Ronaldo closing down more than Rashford last season he's willing even if his legs are limited.

The main difference is Ronaldos running was 99% of the time pointless, it was running a distance to the man on the ball to be easily passed around before getting close. Bruno did the exact same thing when played high as well. If the defender doesn't have easy options to play out your strikers are able to run less and actually have more successful presses.

Anyway he'll be gone and id rather a new striker anyway. If he stays he'll slot in, I'll be far more concerned with Rashfords effort personally.

 

[Idxomer]

What were Hallers stats at West Ham and how much distance did both cover? He was static and never pressed but was able to when actually in a pressing system.

We weren't a pressing unit last season so it's ridiculous comparison. We all repeatedly witnessed Ronaldo closing down more than Rashford last season he's willing even if his legs are limited.

The main difference is Ronaldos running was 99% of the time pointless, it was running a distance to the man on the ball to be easily passed around before getting close. Bruno did the exact same thing when played high as well. If the defender doesn't have easy options to play out your strikers are able to run less and actually have more successful presses.

Anyway he'll be gone and id rather a new striker anyway. If he stays he'll slot in, I'll be far more concerned with Rashfords effort personally.

Haller pressed even more at West Ham, though mostly in the mid 3rd. Ronaldo has had 5 managers in the last 4 seasons and he hasn't pressed under any of them, for more than 1 or 2 games anyway.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

What were Hallers stats at West Ham and how much distance did both cover? He was static and never pressed but was able to when actually in a pressing system.

We weren't a pressing unit last season so it's ridiculous comparison. We all repeatedly witnessed Ronaldo closing down more than Rashford last season he's willing even if his legs are limited.

The main difference is Ronaldos running was 99% of the time pointless, it was running a distance to the man on the ball to be easily passed around before getting close. Bruno did the exact same thing when played high as well. If the defender doesn't have easy options to play out your strikers are able to run less and actually have more successful presses.

Anyway he'll be gone and id rather a new striker anyway. If he stays he'll slot in, I'll be far more concerned with Rashfords effort personally.

Rangnick is the godfather of gegenpressing or whatever, and he quickly realised Ronaldo just wouldn't do it. Rashford made 80 more pressures than Ronaldo last season in half as many minutes and more successful ones than Ronaldo, so your eyes are deceiving you. Ronaldo just made more of a "point" of doing it, but would go long stretches in games without making a single pressure.

 

[sullydnl]

@Smores

Ronaldo's pressing stats over the last five seasons.

Haller's pressing stats in the PL:

Ronaldo has consistently been in the bottom one or two percent of strikers in this regard. That means pretty much anyone you compare him to is going to fare better.

In this case "static" Haller's worst season for pressures per 90 in the PL (19.11) was over twice as many as Ronaldo's best in the last half-decade (9.41).

 

[iamking]

Haller pressed even more at West Ham, though mostly in the mid 3rd. Ronaldo has had 5 managers in the last 4 seasons and he hasn't pressed under any of them, for more than 1 or 2 games anyway.

Remember an interview from Klopp when he was asked if his players must press, he said you have to press, no matter who you are or how big a player, unless You are Messi or Ronaldo. Ronaldo was never going to press upfront. So to say that he hasn't pressed under any manager is being over-simplistic of his utility. Ronaldo gives you goals and goals win matches, the guy stopped dribbling and beating players once he started scoring. If you had a functional team that plays a specific way to his strength, he will deliver the goals. He is better than anybody else on the planet including Mo Salah in converting his chances. To ask him to do the donkey work when half the non-achieving no goodies in our team stroll about, is a joke. Its like trying to use a Rolls-Royce to sweep the streets.

That said we are in a different tactical era, where very few teams succeed with a luxury player who doesn't press, particularly in a team which is not a finished product like ours with a certain style that demands pressing up-front. We don't have the structure to support a player of his calibre. We need a creative midfield with the engine and know-how to press which we sourly lack. So him leaving will be a good thing for both parties, particularly when his heart is set on a finished project over building a new one, considering his age. Nothing to be bitter. I just wish he leaves sooner, so all the commotion around him stops distracting the re-build (putting off potential incomings). The club sorely needs cultural/attitude reboot amongst the players, having an unhappy player of his caliber is a serious detriment to it.

 

[troylocker]

What were Hallers stats at West Ham and how much distance did both cover? He was static and never pressed but was able to when actually in a pressing system.

We weren't a pressing unit last season so it's ridiculous comparison. We all repeatedly witnessed Ronaldo closing down more than Rashford last season he's willing even if his legs are limited.

The main difference is Ronaldos running was 99% of the time pointless, it was running a distance to the man on the ball to be easily passed around before getting close. Bruno did the exact same thing when played high as well. If the defender doesn't have easy options to play out your strikers are able to run less and actually have more successful presses.

Anyway he'll be gone and id rather a new striker anyway. If he stays he'll slot in, I'll be far more concerned with Rashfords effort personally.

We were’nt a pressing machine because our striker didn’t press or lead the line. Pressings/90:
Rashford 18
Sancho 14
Bruno 18
Elanga 21,5
Martial 11
Cavani 12,5
Greenwood 12,5
Ronaldo 6
Haller at West Ham: 22,5

You would look smarter if you actually did some homework instead of just throwing theories out here from the top of your head.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Remember an interview from Klopp when he was asked if his players must press, he said you have to press, no matter who you are or how big a player, unless You are Messi or Ronaldo. Ronaldo was never going to press upfront. So to say that he hasn't pressed under any manager is being over-simplistic of his utility. Ronaldo gives you goals and goals win matches, the guy stopped dribbling and beating players once he started scoring. If you had a functional team that plays a specific way to his strength, he will deliver the goals. He is better than anybody else on the planet including Mo Salah in converting his chances. To ask him to do the donkey work when half the non-achieving no goodies in our team stroll about, is a joke. Its like trying to use a Rolls-Royce to sweep the streets.

That said we are in a different tactical era, where very few teams succeed with a luxury player who doesn't press, particularly in a team which is not a finished product like ours with a certain style that demands pressing up-front. We don't have the structure to support a player of his calibre. We need a creative midfield with the engine and know-how to press which we sourly lack. So him leaving will be a good thing for both parties, particularly when his heart is set on a finished project over building one, considering his age. Nothing to be bitter. I just wish he leaves sooner, so all the commotion around him stops distracting the re-build (putting off potential incomings). The club sorely needs cultural/attitude reboot amongst the players, having an unhappy player of his caliber is a serious detriment. .

That's kinda the point though that we're more than two and a half years on from Klopp's comments in that interview. Ronaldo was at the beginning of decline then, but now the decline has been sharper. Peak Ronaldo, with 3.1 dribbles a game, not 0.7 dribbles, real pace to stretch teams and an all-round forward, you could indulge. The 37-year-old Ronaldo isn't good enough to justify no pressing. His average rating on WhoScored in 2009/10 was 8.54, his average rating last season was 7.11. You can carry a 9/10 player, 7/10 player isn't good enough to carry.

Also "donkey work" wasn't being asked, the bare minimum for his position was being asked but he is unable to give that. Ronaldo made the decision to strip down his entire game for goalscoring and personal glory and it's personally successful for him stat-wise but it's not good for any kind of functioning team dynamic.

 

[bosnian_red]

Just saw that football twitter has started calling him "PR7" Found it amusing.
Guys reputation has taken a battering this summer and it's all his own doing. Going from scoring 20+ goals in a disaster United team and could have been seen as "wanting to help fix United" and getting all the plaudits, to now getting strays all over the place and being rejected all around Europe. What a miscalculation from him and Mendes.

 

[iamking]

That's kinda the point though that we're more than two and a half years on from Klopp's comments in that interview. Ronaldo was at the beginning of decline then, but now the decline has been sharper. Peak Ronaldo, with 3.1 dribbles a game, not 0.7 dribbles, real pace to stretch teams and an all-round forward, you could indulge. The 37-year-old Ronaldo isn't good enough to justify no pressing. His average rating on WhoScored in 2009/10 was 8.54, his average rating last season was 7.11. You can carry a 9/10 player, 7/10 player isn't good enough to carry.

Also "donkey work" wasn't being asked, the bare minimum for his position was being asked but he is unable to give that. Ronaldo made the decision to strip down his entire game for goalscoring and personal glory and it's personally successful for him stat-wise but it's not good for any kind of functioning team dynamic.

I understand where you are coming from. But a 7/10 for Ronaldo would still be 15/10 on Rashford. To say he is not needed for the team is silly despite his decline. If we purchased Halaand or Mbappe or Salah or some young proven striker with potential who is just as prolific it makes sense to dump him. But without CL and with the top replacements not available or taken up by our rivals, hanging on to Ronaldo is not such terrible bad thing. It was a completely dysfunctional team last season from defense to attack and signing Ronaldo would be 6 or 7 on the list of reasons for our failure.

Imagine if City had purchased Ronaldo (and it made sense for City, losing out on Kane and looking for a proven goal-scorer), I am fairly certain he would be in the running for the top awards and who knows may be in conversation for the Ballon D'Or. He scored enough goals to be top 3 in our league being in Our team who is to say what he would do in a functional team under Ten Haag. Just hang on to him, get to CL and then get his replacement letting him go would'nt be a bad choice unless we get somebody of value in, which looks unlikely in the current market (without CL). But the conversation ends if he is not sold on the project and then its better he packs off the next flight.

 

[Andycoleno9]

The thing which he is doing now shouldn't be tolerated by club. We are very soft in all this.

 

[Red00012]

He doesn’t to stop soliciting himself to clubs , come back and put his head down and work for the team. We have those feckers 3 games in and I think it could be a good time to catch them.

 

[SATA]

I feel kind of sorry for Fergie that his so called favourite son has been disrespecting the club and the supporters. I wonder how the great man is feeling now

 

[Fortitude]

I wouldn't start him until September let him get his fitness up with a few sub appearances.

He can start in the league Cup and Europa. If Martial goes off the boil and Ronaldo is banging them in then he can come back into the starting 11

Good luck with that!

Spoiler

 

[iamking]

I feel kind of sorry for Fergie that his so called favourite son has been disrespecting the club and the supporters. I wonder how the great man is feeling now

He was disrespecting the club even back then courting the Madrid Mafia. It's his talent that saved him from the manager's ire.

 

[Kaos]

The thing which he is doing now shouldn't be tolerated by club. We are very soft in all this.

That's my biggest issue with this all. The free ride Ronaldo has been given by the club to essentially be paid £400k a week to look for a new club while he kicks back in Lisbon. Imagine if someone like Martial hasn't turned up at all to preseason, he'd be hung out to dry.

I've gone past believing the 'personal family issue' alibi too. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt earlier, but the fact Mendes is whoring him out to every big club left right and centre in the interim, leads me to believe its a load of bollocks.

The club needs to grow a pair and tell him to either make it publicly known he wants to leave, in which case good luck to him and we can plan the season and beyond without him, or he needs to get his arse to preseason training and buckle down like the rest of the squad. Failing that fine him until he gets the message. CR7 or not, no one is bigger than the club.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

I understand where you are coming from. But a 7/10 for Ronaldo would still be 15/10 on Rashford. To say he is not needed for the team is silly despite his decline. If we purchased Halaand or Mbappe or Salah or some young proven striker with potential who is just as prolific it makes sense to dump him. But without CL and with the top replacements not available or taken up by our rivals, hanging on to Ronaldo is not such terrible bad thing. It was a completely dysfunctional team last season from defense to attack and signing Ronaldo would be 6 or 7 on the list of reasons for our failure.

Imagine if City had purchased Ronaldo (and it made sense for City, losing out on Kane and looking for a proven goal-scorer), I am fairly certain he would be in the running for the top awards and who knows may be in conversation for the Ballon D'Or. He scored enough goals to be top 3 in our league being in Our team who is to say what he would do in a functional team under Ten Haag. Just hang on to him, get to CL and then get his replacement letting him go would'nt be a bad choice unless we get somebody of value in, which looks unlikely in the current market (without CL). But the conversation ends if he is not sold on the project and then its better he packs off the next flight.

I disagree on the City point and I think that's shown in the fact that no top team wants to touch him, it's actually quite humbling for him. If he had gone to City, my opinion would be they actually would have lost the league to Liverpool because he would have taken away that 5% from the team dynamic and tactically that is so important to Man City. When Guardiola played United, he picked his team based on tactics of having a left footer on the left and a right footer on the right for a specific game. With Ronaldo in the squad, he would be an uncomfortable figure that would expect to be picked all the time and limit the fluidity that sees City choose from 5-6 forwards on rotation. Also City's oldest forward is Kevin De Bruyne who is 31 and still runs all day long, Ronaldo is a completely different profile than what has worked at City.

My opinion on Rashford is wait and see, he was quite good before last season. Last season was terrible but I'm willing to give him another shot under a new manager and a fresh approach. We'll see if last season was the start of the end at the top level or just a blip in a long career. Agreed though ideally if Ronaldo goes, he will be replaced by someone.

 

[iamking]

I disagree on the City point and I think that's shown in the fact that no top team wants to touch him, it's actually quite humbling for him. If he had gone to City, my opinion would be they actually would have lost the league to Liverpool because he would have taken away that 5% from the team dynamic and tactically that is so important to Man City. When Guardiola played United, he picked his team based on tactics of having a left footer on the left and a right footer on the right for a specific game. With Ronaldo in the squad, he would be an uncomfortable figure that would expect to be picked all the time and limit the fluidity that sees City choose from 5-6 forwards on rotation. Also City's oldest forward is Kevin De Bruyne who is 31 and still runs all day long, Ronaldo is a completely different profile than what has worked at City.

My opinion on Rashford is wait and see, he was quite good before last season. Last season was terrible but I'm willing to give him another shot under a new manager and a fresh approach. We'll see if last season was the start of the end at the top level or just a blip in a long career. Agreed though ideally if Ronaldo goes, he will be replaced by someone.

I rate Rashford highly and I am not complaining about him in general. Its just that when it comes to efficacy in the final third, he is going to fall well short of Ronaldo and this is a fact. Also, Ronaldo at City could have been anything, hit or miss, no point speculating. Also he was much wanted last season, this season every top team went out and brought a striker replacement and Ronaldo didn't fit in for various reasons not purely because of non-performance/age. He couldn't play for Barca, PSG held onto Mbappe, Bayern can't afford his wages and City/Pool can't get him from us. But the point is, at present we are better off with him playing in the team. So without an ideal replacement, hanging onto him wont be a bad thing like many here claim. But this can happen only if he buys into Ten Haag. No point keeping him otherwise as it will be more disruptive. Cheers!

 

[alexthelion]

By pressing

This is Ronaldo we're talking about, he doesn't do pressing.

 

[alexthelion]

If he won't listen to the manager then it's up to the manager to take him out of the team. ETH needs to show he can handle the big personalities, it's a box that needs ticking to prove he can do the job.

One thing I'll say about Ronaldo, I watched him all last season, a few times live, and he was one of if not the hardest workers multiple times. He still has it in the tank to put the work in. As I said, I want to see what ETH can do with him, I'd prefer he stays for sure. And last season he was phenomenal for us.

You poor deluded child.

 

[Andycoleno9]

If he won't listen to the manager then it's up to the manager to take him out of the team. ETH needs to show he can handle the big personalities, it's a box that needs ticking to prove he can do the job.

One thing I'll say about Ronaldo, I watched him all last season, a few times live, and he was one of if not the hardest workers multiple times. He still has it in the tank to put the work in. As I said, I want to see what ETH can do with him, I'd prefer he stays for sure. And last season he was phenomenal for us.

No, he wasn't.

 

[Revaulx]

If Fergie applauds him, would it make you the abnormal one ?

I was wondering what Fergie must be thinking about this. Does he feel thoroughly let down by Ronnie, or does he feel bad about encouraging him to return and sympathise with his desire to leave?

 

[Revaulx]

Fergie should really be shut out from having any influence in footballing decisions going forward.

On Ronaldo, what a clown. He's as petulant off the field as he is on the field. He's essentially isolating himself from any blame of what happened last season. Sure he was one of our better players but he had a stretch over two months where he contributed next to nothing for us.

I can't wait till he takes his circus away from the club along with his fans that only care about his stats. First time losing Ronaldo was painful but there is zero fecks given now with this stat obsessed mercenary.

So do you honestly think Ronaldo was foisted onto Woodward by Fergie?

It’s a lot more likely that the club approached him and asked him to help persuade Ronnie to return. Which was a bad idea, but if it was what the club wanted you can’t label it as influence.

 

[SuperiorXI]

No, he wasn't.

Him and DDG were the only ones who could look fans in the eye last season. Short memories in here. He was our top scorer and his goals were not tap ins, he had to work for them.

 

[Revaulx]

The thing which he is doing now shouldn't be tolerated by club. We are very soft in all this.

I’d be surprised if he isn’t staying away with the club’s tacit blessing. Sometimes being soft in a hopeless situation is the best option, as it can avoid needless drama.

 

[huyn]

Would people take Greizmaan on loan for a season if it allowed Ronaldo to go the other way?

This past season he was literally the opposite of Ronaldo. Couldn't score in an empty goal, but working his ass off as usual. He was dreadful offensively the few times I watched him with Atletico and most of the time with the french national team. But I think he can bounce back, it's not like he has lost a step physically, he stills runs and presses all game long. On a loan he'd be worth a punt imo, and if Ten Hag wants pressing from his forwards he's guaranteed to get it from him.

 

[Paxi]

The thing which he is doing now shouldn't be tolerated by club. We are very soft in all this.

Indeed we should tell him to go and feck - throw him into the stands.

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

i still think that ETH despite what he says publicly wants Ronaldo out of the club and this is why the club seems so passive regarding Ronaldo's absence and very public search for a new club. How could any new manager tolerate the nonsense from Ron this preseason without looking undermined? There is a lot more going on here than we are hearing about.

 

[Mickeza]

The thing which he is doing now shouldn't be tolerated by club. We are very soft in all this.

Really? I think he’s been given time off to find a club. It suits absolutely everyone.

 

[el3mel]

It's weird because even though he has always been all about himself and he loves nothing more than himself and himself only, he has never been that kind of unprofessional prick.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Most Utd fans I have spoken to at work and elsewhere aren't even bothered if he leaves. Says it all.

I think most people realise we are a better unit without him even though individually he's a better player than likes of Martial. But it's not about him it's about the whole team.

Adeus Cristiano.

 

[mshnsh]

If he won't listen to the manager then it's up to the manager to take him out of the team. ETH needs to show he can handle the big personalities, it's a box that needs ticking to prove he can do the job.

One thing I'll say about Ronaldo, I watched him all last season, a few times live, and he was one of if not the hardest workers multiple times. He still has it in the tank to put the work in. As I said, I want to see what ETH can do with him, I'd prefer he stays for sure. And last season he was phenomenal for us.

Phenomenal?

 

[Swoobs]

Remember an interview from Klopp when he was asked if his players must press, he said you have to press, no matter who you are or how big a player, unless You are Messi or Ronaldo. Ronaldo was never going to press upfront. So to say that he hasn't pressed under any manager is being over-simplistic of his utility. Ronaldo gives you goals and goals win matches, the guy stopped dribbling and beating players once he started scoring. If you had a functional team that plays a specific way to his strength, he will deliver the goals. He is better than anybody else on the planet including Mo Salah in converting his chances. To ask him to do the donkey work when half the non-achieving no goodies in our team stroll about, is a joke. Its like trying to use a Rolls-Royce to sweep the streets.

That said we are in a different tactical era, where very few teams succeed with a luxury player who doesn't press, particularly in a team which is not a finished product like ours with a certain style that demands pressing up-front. We don't have the structure to support a player of his calibre. We need a creative midfield with the engine and know-how to press which we sourly lack. So him leaving will be a good thing for both parties, particularly when his heart is set on a finished project over building a new one, considering his age. Nothing to be bitter. I just wish he leaves sooner, so all the commotion around him stops distracting the re-build (putting off potential incomings). The club sorely needs cultural/attitude reboot amongst the players, having an unhappy player of his caliber is a serious detriment to it.

Blatantly false, just a quick check shows that both Benzema and Lewandowski have significantly better conversion rate last season. Had not checked Haaland, Kane etc but I guess its the same

 

[SuperiorXI]

Phenomenal?

Absolutely. He carried us with his goals, it would have been even more depressing if he hadn't bailed us out with his individual quality.

 

[Fortitude]

It's weird because even though he has always all about himself and he loves nothing more than himself and himself only, he has never been that kind of unprofessional prick.

Is that true, the unprofessional bit?

Throughout his career everyone knows what to expect if he’s subbed or if he wants out of a club. Has anything actually changed in that regard, or are we just seeing these things more frequently because of the player he is now as opposed to then when he was indeed undroppable and un-subable?

 

[el3mel]

Is that true, the unprofessional bit?

Throughout his career everyone knows what to expect if he’s subbed or if he wants out of a club. Has anything actually changed in that regard, or are we just seeing these things more frequently because of the player he is now as opposed to then when he was indeed undroppable and un-subable?

Not turning up for the preseason because he's pushing to leave is something I wouldn't expect from a player like him. Yes he throws a tantrum whenever things don't go his way but this is extreme.

 

[the_cliff]

Ronaldo must surely be starting to realise that he's no longer good enough to warrant the star treatment he's so used to. His ego must be taking a pretty big hit right now, I hope we find a way to get rid.

Ronaldo leaving us the first time hurt, this time it's more of a relief, shows how far he's fallen, it's kind of sad.

 

[evil_geko]

Absolutely. He carried us with his goals, it would have been even more depressing if he hadn't bailed us out with his individual quality.

So we automatically forget horrible several months of his form where he had worse first touch than Lukaku and we only count some numbers he banged in in some smaller games, ok stats Andy.

 

[mshnsh]

Remember an interview from Klopp when he was asked if his players must press, he said you have to press, no matter who you are or how big a player, unless You are Messi or Ronaldo. Ronaldo was never going to press upfront. So to say that he hasn't pressed under any manager is being over-simplistic of his utility. Ronaldo gives you goals and goals win matches, the guy stopped dribbling and beating players once he started scoring. If you had a functional team that plays a specific way to his strength, he will deliver the goals. He is better than anybody else on the planet including Mo Salah in converting his chances. To ask him to do the donkey work when half the non-achieving no goodies in our team stroll about, is a joke. Its like trying to use a Rolls-Royce to sweep the streets.

That said we are in a different tactical era, where very few teams succeed with a luxury player who doesn't press, particularly in a team which is not a finished product like ours with a certain style that demands pressing up-front. We don't have the structure to support a player of his calibre. We need a creative midfield with the engine and know-how to press which we sourly lack. So him leaving will be a good thing for both parties, particularly when his heart is set on a finished project over building a new one, considering his age. Nothing to be bitter. I just wish he leaves sooner, so all the commotion around him stops distracting the re-build (putting off potential incomings). The club sorely needs cultural/attitude reboot amongst the players, having an unhappy player of his caliber is a serious detriment to it.

In the case of Ronaldo, he has NEVER done the dirty work (pressing/tracking back) and if at anypoint he was forced to, it would be half arsed just for show. For him, It has always been about Ronaldo.

As for Messi, he used to track back and press alot but now does very little in these areas. He was actually very good at winning back the ball.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Not turning up for the preseason because he's pushing to leave is something I wouldn't expect from a player like him. Yes he throws a tantrum whenever things don't go his way but this is extreme.

There are reports about a family issue, that could be a reason, a valid one too.

So we automatically forget horrible several months of his form where he had worse first touch than Lukaku and we only count some numbers he banged in in some smaller games, ok stats Andy.

He was better than all our other options, that's an irrefutable fact. Just because Martial is banging them in against Melbourne Victory does not change that.