Haven't seen anything like this before.
Cricket
- Thread starter EdWeatherall
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Haven't seen anything like this before.
HOLY SHIT
Haven't seen anything like this before.
He bowled a 6th over right before lunch. 6-6-0-2. Wild.
Ridiculous figures, especially for a seam bowler!
Edit: apparently Wasim bowled 8 maidens in a row to start an innings. Taylor just short of that!
Edit: apparently Wasim bowled 8 maidens in a row to start an innings. Taylor just short of that!
Smith has developed into a wonderful player. Terrific knock from him again.
Windies. The opener got a pair on his debut. His List A batting average is 18 and he's playing professional cricket against Australia! Such daft batsmen in this team. 
That review was really fortunate! Looked out for all my money.
Smith must be averaging about 100 in the last year or so.
Read on twitter about Rory burns and Moises henriques being taken to the hospital after a nasty collision. Terrible stuff. Hope they are alright.
Good comeback by the late middle order. Sarfraz is just brilliant, his average in the last 9-10 tests is surely 60+.
Too bad there only are four sessions left. Tests in the subcontinent during the summer should have reserve days.
Too bad there only are four sessions left. Tests in the subcontinent during the summer should have reserve days.
Fantastic win. Yasir Shah really has been an incredible find.
India again falling to mustafizur, who is this guy?
Warney was really hyped about him before the WC. Excellent win considering the position Pakistan were in on Day 4.
So Pakistan are out of the Champions Trophy if Bangladesh win today?
Have to say, Bangladesh have transformed into a good ODI outfit.
No. Pakistan have to beat SL and then WI would be out.
Oh nice.
No idea. What a talent though.
Watched the highlights.
Being an England fan I never thought the day would come where India are playing backwards LO cricket. This strategy of saving as many wickets for the last 10-15 overs is costing them. When the top order is out of form it exposes the lack of competence lower down. Ashwin and B Kumar are technically solid but they're more supporting casts - hang around for a while with another batsman taking the charge. For me the tail starts from Dhoni. His powers are fading.
Being an England fan I never thought the day would come where India are playing backwards LO cricket. This strategy of saving as many wickets for the last 10-15 overs is costing them. When the top order is out of form it exposes the lack of competence lower down. Ashwin and B Kumar are technically solid but they're more supporting casts - hang around for a while with another batsman taking the charge. For me the tail starts from Dhoni. His powers are fading.
Just muddled thinking and tired players. I don't think more than 20-30 runs should be expected from Jadeja + Ashwin + Bhuvaneshwar on average per match.
The top order's still a good one, just out of form.
Dhoni's a concern, yea, but he's not the kind to stick around if he thinks he's become shit. So either he'll be okay by the time the champions trophy rolls around or he'll quit for better players.
I just checked and the next one's in 2017.. that's a lot of time. I am guessing Dhoni won't be around for it and is hopefully replaced by Samson.
Just saw the day 5 highlights, some shocking shot selections from the SL batsmen. Looked like they were in a hurry to get the game done and dusted.
From being 180 runs behind with 5 wickets remaining at the start of the 4th day to winning by 10 wickets well within the next day is a great comeback. SL look average, I think they'll struggle in tests once Sanga retires.
I think we are in for a lean period in Indian cricket. This team reminds me of the teams from the 90's, but worse; the difference is Kohli for Tendulkar and no world class spinner in Kumble. It had been a long time since I have seen such a dearth of quality batters and spinners in our ranks.
Rayudu has never impressed me very much and Rohit Sharma is the very definition of a flat track bully. The only quality batters in the ODI side are Kohli, Rahane and Raina. With the decline of Dhoni as a finisher, we badly lack a player who gives confidence to the top order that they need, that they have someone after them who can finish games. The likes of Chand, Manish Sharma, Utahappa, Karthik and others have failed to step up to the plate, and I am not sure there are many in the domestic circuit who are ready to take up the challenge.
It's the same story with the Spin department. The fact that Karan Sharma and Axar Patel are the top spin prospects in the country is a tell all. Ashwin is a far cry from Kumble, or even Bhajji's top level. That we bought Singh back on the basis of a couple of IPL performances was mind boggling in itself.
We have never been able to produce top quality pacers, so there is no point commenting on the "pace battery". It is what it is.
Never seen Dhoni so frazzled and defensive in his press conference. Those were not the word of a confident man. I think it's time to relive him of his captaincy and wicketkeeping duties to let him rediscover himself as a top order (number 4 or 5) batsman. This should allow Samson to develop as our future WK and late order finisher. A top 7 of Dhawan, Vijay, Kohli, Dhoni, Rahane, Raina and Samson is not bad, at least on paper. The bowling: well, let's keep our fingers crossed that the batters score enough runs. England is forming it's new ODI cricketing era on similar basis of flat tracks and the batters ability to out score anything the opposition presents.
For the test team I really hope that Pujara rediscovers his cricket. He is among the biggest disappointments of the last couple of years.
If you think this is worse than Vikram Rathore, Debang Gandhi, MSK Prasad, Prabhakar, Mohanty and Ashish Sharma then you evidently didn't see much of them.
i think india are paying the price for the ipl and t20 in general. there's too much emphasis on their youngsters to be good at t20 cricket so they're useful for the ipl, they're getting left behind in the other formats as a result.
I saw enough. Besides Prabhakar who played a decent number of matches, how many matches did the other guys play for India? I would take Venkatpathy Raju over the current left arm spinners any day of the week. The likes of Varun Aaron are not much better than the Debashish Mohanty's of the past.
We are missing a batting core at the moment and the bowling department is atrocious. Our spin options are worse than anything I have seen in a long time, and Ishant Sharma spearheads our pace attack in test cricket - that's abominable for a cricket mad country like ours.
I think you have hit the nail on the head. "The best players of spin bowling" have folded against the likes of Moeen Ali and other ordinary spinners on foreign pitches far too often. Most our batsmen lack the technique to excel against any decent attack and most our bowlers don't know how to force batters into mistakes.
We definitely are starting to see the ill effects of T20/IPL cricket more and more in the cricketers we are producing. Hopefully, the new think tank of Tendulkar, Ganguly and Laxman along with Dravid will be able to bring about some changes for the better. Our domestic cricket needs an overhaul.
Not long before KM and zing come along saying it's fashionable to blame T20 and that our bowling attack has always been shit and batsmen are just out of form/jaded.
I don't watch much of the IPL, and am not an IPL apologist, but how come you don't come crawling out of the woodwork to blame T20 when India do well?
IPL started in 2008.. since then India have won the WC, made the semi final of another and won the champions trophy..
utilising a core of players that were long established before the ipl.
Team that won the champions trophy:
Sharma, Dhawan, Kohli, Karthik, Raina, Dhoni, Jadeja, Ashwin, Bhuvaneshwar Kumar, Ishant, Yadav
Team that made it to the WC Semi final being unbeaten:
Sharma, Dhawan, Kohli, Rahane, Raina, Dhoni, Jadeja, Ashwin, Shammi, Mohit, Yadav
Team for the first ODI vs Bangladesh that has grown up playing T20 cricket and therefore do not know how to play ODI cricket:
Sharma, Dhawan, Kohli, Rahane, Raina, Dhoni, Jadeja, Ashwin, Bhuvaneshwar Kumar, Mohit, Yadav
Anil Kumble - test debut 1990
Javagal Srinath - test debut 1992
Zaheer Khan - test debut 2000
Harbhajan Singh - test debut 1998
IPL - started in 2008
Number of players who made their test debut between 2000 and 2008 and took over 100 wickets for India in test cricket - 0
fecking IPL!
Might as well blame the IPL for the haley's comet not showing up while we're at it.
Javagal Srinath - test debut 1992
Zaheer Khan - test debut 2000
Harbhajan Singh - test debut 1998
IPL - started in 2008
Number of players who made their test debut between 2000 and 2008 and took over 100 wickets for India in test cricket - 0
fecking IPL!
Might as well blame the IPL for the haley's comet not showing up while we're at it.
It is not proper to put blame on T20 or IPL every time India team fails. IPL and T20 has its downsides and we all have talked about it, like many other Cricket fans, too often. That doesn't mean it is to be blamed every time India loses.
The reason it is not proper to blame:
1) The same IPL has also helped India identify some good cricketers and gave them wider/popular platform and also, India's performance hasn't been bad since IPL came up. India's Win/Loss ratio is 2nd only to Australia from 2008 till date, that is, since IPL came up:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...2008;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team
Australia W/L 2.074
India W/L: 1.833
South Africa: W/L: 1.645
Next best: Ireland!
Add to this the trophies India team won since then.
2) Australia & South Africa players also play IPL, are often the best performers in their respective teams and are still able to adapt when it comes to ODI or even better, to tests. So, what is wrong with Indian team is not IPL but the adaptability across different formats. The bowling is clearly a very weak area and batsmen can't do it all every time.
You can say bowling of India has become worse because of IPL which might be true but again, same is not case with Australia, SA, NZ bowlers who play IPL but that doesn't impact them when it comes to bigger versions.
So what should be done? Imo, to be as good & as consistent as Australia and South Africa, India need v.good bowlers and for that changes at grass root level are necessary. The ability to swing the ball, bowling in cordon of uncertainty consistently, bowling with 135-140k+ consistently, these aspects of fast bowling can still give success, even if the game is more and more being made in favour of batsmen. In such situation, doing the old basics correctly and consistently is only way out. Screw doing the variations each time. Do basics right first. Same goes to spinners, who are more interested in 'doosra', 'teesra' and some nonsense ever time they bowl, instead of giving flight and using the traditional ways to fox batsmen.
For this series in particular, it was totally ill timed series by BCCI. Some blame also goes to players for not being up for it. This is not to take credit away from Bangladesh, they have improved a lot and have some exciting players, but Indian players didn't look up for it.
The reason it is not proper to blame:
1) The same IPL has also helped India identify some good cricketers and gave them wider/popular platform and also, India's performance hasn't been bad since IPL came up. India's Win/Loss ratio is 2nd only to Australia from 2008 till date, that is, since IPL came up:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...2008;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team
Australia W/L 2.074
India W/L: 1.833
South Africa: W/L: 1.645
Next best: Ireland!
Add to this the trophies India team won since then.
2) Australia & South Africa players also play IPL, are often the best performers in their respective teams and are still able to adapt when it comes to ODI or even better, to tests. So, what is wrong with Indian team is not IPL but the adaptability across different formats. The bowling is clearly a very weak area and batsmen can't do it all every time.
You can say bowling of India has become worse because of IPL which might be true but again, same is not case with Australia, SA, NZ bowlers who play IPL but that doesn't impact them when it comes to bigger versions.
So what should be done? Imo, to be as good & as consistent as Australia and South Africa, India need v.good bowlers and for that changes at grass root level are necessary. The ability to swing the ball, bowling in cordon of uncertainty consistently, bowling with 135-140k+ consistently, these aspects of fast bowling can still give success, even if the game is more and more being made in favour of batsmen. In such situation, doing the old basics correctly and consistently is only way out. Screw doing the variations each time. Do basics right first. Same goes to spinners, who are more interested in 'doosra', 'teesra' and some nonsense ever time they bowl, instead of giving flight and using the traditional ways to fox batsmen.
For this series in particular, it was totally ill timed series by BCCI. Some blame also goes to players for not being up for it. This is not to take credit away from Bangladesh, they have improved a lot and have some exciting players, but Indian players didn't look up for it.
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The IPL's made the Indian team much better ODI players -- I have no doubt about this. I think it is a crap tournament that would be much better if shortened, but it is very obvious that it is churning out high quality short form players who've played a hell lot of games where things are expected of them and turn up to international cricket fully capable of handling pressure. If this team loses, it's not because they don't have bottle.
We don't have any issues with test cricket either -- Vijay was a cracking T20 player for CSK and is one of our best test players. Kohli, Rahane who are our other 2 best players are good short form players. Anyone else knocking on the door, barring Pujara and Rahul, have also been good short form players.
The IPL's ruined many things -- Indian cricket's dignity, given too much money and power to BCCI, West Indian cricket -- but it hasn't with any major magnitude negatively impacted Indian cricket's performance.
Blaming the IPL for India losing to Bangladesh in ODI is one of the silliest things I've read in cricket.
I don't even understand why people are up in arms. The further any ODI match is from a WC, it is that much more irrelevant.
Bangladesh have become a decent side as well.
We don't have any issues with test cricket either -- Vijay was a cracking T20 player for CSK and is one of our best test players. Kohli, Rahane who are our other 2 best players are good short form players. Anyone else knocking on the door, barring Pujara and Rahul, have also been good short form players.
The IPL's ruined many things -- Indian cricket's dignity, given too much money and power to BCCI, West Indian cricket -- but it hasn't with any major magnitude negatively impacted Indian cricket's performance.
Blaming the IPL for India losing to Bangladesh in ODI is one of the silliest things I've read in cricket.
I don't even understand why people are up in arms. The further any ODI match is from a WC, it is that much more irrelevant.
Bangladesh have become a decent side as well.
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Agreed. First win in 9 years too apparently!
I actually thought that we were gifted the test match by their batsmen. They only had 2-3 hours to hold with quite a few wickets remaining. They could have easily saved the game if they played with a cautious approach. Apart from Yasir and to a lesser extent Zulfiqar I don't think any of our bowlers were unplayable.
I think this is one of the most fatuous arguments I have seen put forward on this site.
- First off, it is factually incorrect as both Irfan Pathan and Ishant Sharma, who made their debuts before 2008, have 100 or more wickets in test cricket.
- Second, we can may be ignore first as a minor oversight, but where that argument (hysterical, I might add) really falls flat is that it fails to account that three of the bowlers listed - Kumble, Khan & Singh - played most of their cricket in that period between 2000-2008. The three of them along with Kapil Dev are four of the top highest wicket takers in Indian cricket. It should come as no surprise that not many bowlers debuted and took a lot of wickets during then. Kumble, one of the best leg spinners the world has ever seen; Bhajji, one of the top off spinners of that period; Zaheer, one of the top fast bowlers India has ever produced - of course not many were able to displace them.
- Third, anyone who understands cricket can clearly see the distinction in the bowling of the likes of Ashwin, Patel, Jadeja and Sharma from the spin bowlers of the past. They bowl a flat trajectory, sometimes with too many variations, with the aim to prevent runs then to take wickets; which clearly is an adverse effect of too much T20/ODI cricket.
- Fourth, our current fast bowlers lack the patience, endurance and guile to get wickets in test cricket. Extracting wickets is an art for which they clearly lack the intelligence for, which again is awfully clear if you have seen them perform. Shami is the only bowler worth his salt in the Indian team.
- Fifth, you need to look at our test record in the past few years to that period you mentioned. We clearly have been on a decline, and we cannot just blame it on the retirement of the legends; our record in England and Australia is shameful for any XI a leading cricket playing country can put forth.
- Sixth, no one is solely blaming the IPL for the ills in Indian cricket. Though, both our batters and bowlers inability to deal with quality bowling or perform on wickets that offer assistance to the bowlers is shocking. We had players in Sidhu and Ganguly who had the ability to make Muralitharan in his prime look like a pub bowler or Sachin who gave Warne nightmares. Now a degree of spin and these batters cannot deal with it. Of course some of it can be attributed to crickets modeling their game to play in the IPL/shorter formats, don't think it is an outrageous claim. Too many are making debuts based on IPL performances and have shocking domestic records.
- Seventh, no one is saying that Indian team is dog shit because of one bad series in Bangladesh. It's just the series highlights, may be in the extreme, the lack of quality in the current squad and Indian domestic cricket in general.
I said "more than 100 wickets" and I deliberately ignored Ishant because he's clearly crap with or without the IPL.
Second, Zaheer Khan's best years were after the IPL started. In the 2000s before the IPL started (which I just looked up), he had a bowling average of 40 at home and around 33 away, not the Wasim Akram you're making him out to be. Considering we play 2 pace bowlers at home, 3 away and our best bowler is the one who averaged 35 across both, the pace bowling slots were hardly set in stone.
I am already bored replying to this post, but I will reply anyway:
Spin bowlers -- I don't know, is it because of the IPL? I wouldn't use the examples you quoted to blame the IPL -- these were all bowlers picked on the merit of IPL(barring Ojha, arguably Karan Sharma ) and fast tracked into test cricket, so they will bowl like that. Why there's a lack of classical spinners outside of these bowlers, I don't know and I don't know if that's unique to post 2008. Were there good Ranji spinners pre IPL who weren't getting picked? I didn't watch the Ranji, so I don't know.
And Ojha does NOT bowl flat -- he is a good long form bowler.
Fourth, Shammi is wank and has been apart from his two match debut series. Ironic you should use him as the example of patience, endurance as he is the one player who has literally never bowled a single over without straying down leg: http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia-v-india-2014-15/content/story/813979.html
Fifth, our test record is as good as the team is -- not sure what your point is. The previous teams were better, this one is not as good.
My bad. feck you Irfan not taking another wicket...feck you!Anyway, like I said that was a minor oversight, the main point was the one after that.
I am not making him out to be Wasim, I only pointed that he is the fourth highest wicket taker in Indian cricket and played majority of his cricket in that era, which is a fact. Also, Srinath played for a couple of years in the 2000's - one of the bowlers in your list.
I am sorry for not giving an imbecilic reply for your entertainment.
God damn right, you don't know.
The things to discuss is that why Ranji has not been able to produce these bowlers. Too many flat wickets? Too many bowlers more interested in tailoring their bowling to the shorter formats? Not enough proper coaching?
I am not trying to win arguments here, I am interested in discussions about the state of Indian cricket, but, you don't know.
I said Shami is the only bowler with whom you can see the talent.
That is the whole fecking debate actually: the reasons why we are not producing quality cricketers anymore. You would think after a very good spell in Indian cricket and with us being the nation with the most revenues we would be able to move forward and build on that to improve our cricket/cricketers from the previous era. Though, the exact opposite is happening and we are going backwards. Besides a couple, we have batters who are flat track bullies and spinners who can't spin the ball.
The phenomenon might not be restricted to India/IPL, but that is another debate.
But, yeah, let's not bore ourselves and others.
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We've always been overrated when it comes to playing spin bowling. I don't think that has much to do with the IPL. We've always had a collapse or two in us. Wasn't in Monty who fecked us over at home when we still had all the big guns? Ajantha Mendis completely and utterly wrecked us when we went to Srilanka and he's about as average as it gets.
Pakistani's and us were always the best players of spin bowling. You can notice the stark difference if you watch Azhar, Sidhu, Inzi, Miandad, Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly and compare them to the current lot. Those guys were so much better with using their feet and wrists again spin bowling, and that too on tracks that spun more than they do now. They made the bowlers think and never allowed them to bowl a consistent line and length. The current players play far too deep inside the crease and with a heavy hand.
What you are mentioning are a few exceptions. I am sure if we look through history books, we could find instances where our slow plodders have affected collapses against batsmen who played pace very well. We did occasionally find it tough against Saqlain, Mushy and Murali, but then they were also top bowlers and would get better of batters, however good they may be.
We did struggle against Mendis in that one series but were able to get the better of him after that. And then, Narendar Hirwani also took 16 wickets in a test match once.
Dhoni