Cricket
- Thread starter EdWeatherall
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I was saying it more from a recent point of view rather than currently. Cricket has been off a while so hard to remember who are first choice for teams but just going from the 2019 WC I can say Pakistan had Hafeez & Malik bowling, Aussies used Maxwell & Finch along with Stoinis , Saffers have been using Markram. What I think has changed is that because of the number of wicketkeepers that can bat now, teams are preferring to go with 6 batsmen (including a WK ) plus an all rounder plus 4 bowlers . Two decades back most wicketkeepers could bat at 7 at best so you were forced to have some of your batsmen chip in with the ball but now you have the luxury of not needing them to
Getting twatted again. Ominous signs for the test series.
Jadeja dropping dollies. Now I've seen it all.
Terrible last 3 overs for India.
Great catch to get rid or Kohli
Mind boggling innings by Rahul. Hit a 6 play 4 dot balls, hit 4 play 3 dot balls. India just not the team which can chase 390. Max 350/360
I'm really not a fan. I think India should just get rid of him. They've got loads of WK/Batsman options and he should be nowhere near the opening slots.
Funny how chahal for all his cricket doesn't get scrutinized enough. Always feel he is overrated in ODIs. None of our legendary spinners be it Kumble or Ashwin or Bhajji escaped criticism after couple of ordinary performances but chahal hardly gets one. I will keep him for T20s but you need someone better in longer format.
Did the same thing in the IPL. It's a bit weird because it's a really subtle and easy adjustment to make.
He averages 26. Guy at the other end - averages 36. Why would you criticise chahal?
Jadeja has bowling stats like Yuvraj. There’s a bizarre obsession with his fielding without which he wouldn’t be playing for India in any limited overs format. Absent turners like 2013 champions trophy, jadeja isn’t good enough for an international team.
Bowlers lost the game for India . 390 in these conditions is like 450 in England/India
This batting performance is so weird though , it's like the Virat Kohli dream team out there . Everyone just playing at run a ball with the hope that somehow Hardik will score 150 in the last 12 overs . 153/3 in 23 was the perfect situation to send Pandya in but they are obsessed with this sort of batting
This batting performance is so weird though , it's like the Virat Kohli dream team out there . Everyone just playing at run a ball with the hope that somehow Hardik will score 150 in the last 12 overs . 153/3 in 23 was the perfect situation to send Pandya in but they are obsessed with this sort of batting
The only reason jadeja gets the nod is because he can bat ( which also is overrated). We need batting allrounders in this team and this whole Kohli-shastri era has just taken the shorter format team backwards.
I still feel we can do better than chahal. He is decent but is he even that good, I don't think so. You look at Zampa and you look at chahal and you will see the difference. Chahal on his bad day is pretty bad and doesn't bowl smart. But before chahal we need to fix other things.
What other choices do India have to fulfil the role Jadeja plays? Krunal? Sundar? I think India feel like they need some extra batting and they will be unlikely to go back to two frontline spinners like they did with Chahal and Kuldeep.
Jadeja ending Starc
Kuldeep, another seamer. A bowling average of 26 vs 36 makes more than a ten run swing in the target.
ODI teams rarely need signifcant runs from 8 to convert losing matches to winning matches. if you look at matches where Jadeja made more than 40, we have lost almost all of it.
Jadeja is 7 not 8
India's batsmen need to be more aggressive if you go in that direction.
The whole balance of the team is weird. You cannot have a saini or shami come in 6 down. We lack allrounders. One cannot blame batsmen for not chasing 390. Serious questions need to be asked to the bowlers. Yes the pitches are flat but you still should bowl better than what we have seen in the last 2 matches.
Have said it on many occasions, don't think Kohli is a good captain or strategist in limited over cricket. For his own good he should give up at least t20 captaincy if not both.
Have said it on many occasions, don't think Kohli is a good captain or strategist in limited over cricket. For his own good he should give up at least t20 captaincy if not both.
Indias such a boring team. I said this in the world cup. We got 330 in the most unadventurous manner ever. Typical Aussies turning up on these flat tracks having struggled all IPL. Im convinced we advise our batsmen to play conservative. Man I wish we could bring back Sehwag.
Also we were never chasing this.
Also we were never chasing this.
It's not so much blame but I certainly think there's a mindset shift needed. England have done it, Australia have done it and now India need to do it. The batsmen are talented enough. Watching Maxwell bat in the IPL vs how he's batted for Australia in his last 5 ODI's shows the difference.
People have forgotten what ODIs have become. 350 is an average score these days. Jadejas 0-60 is pretty good in these conditions. Like you say, we need to be more aggressive.
As I said we have regressed under kohli-shastri management. This is why my scrutinization point comes about certain players. These players are not questioned enough and the management is getting free pass. What does shastri add to the team? 2017 champions trophy was considered a failure eventhough we reached finals but 2019 wc was fine and no changes were made moving forward
. Since the start of the year we have lacked intensity (NZ series another example). We are just wasting this generation's talent.
Also, if this match happened in India people would have moaned about the flat pitches. No cry about it now?
Australia produce the worst pitches for odi cricket in the world, no contest.
From afar I do wonder about the wider team environment and if it's the best way to get the most out of everyone. Last World Cup India clearly stuck too long with Dhoni, did not find a number 4 and walked away from the Kuldeep/Chahal pairing that been successful in the lead up to the tournament. Even in the build up to this tour they've had a weird situation with Rohit and I do not think the communication and planning around the team is of the standard required. Identify the style of cricket you want to play, pick the players that have the attributes to deliver it and stick with them.
You forgotten just how bad Finch, Maxwell and Smith were in the IPL? Like Zing says, Australia produce nothing but flat tracks.
I fear for the test series. We could be thrashed 4-0. As I said intensity is a worry. Kohli was and even now is known for his intensity but looks lost since 2019 semi final loss. Which is why you need a change at the top. Shastri should be removed asap. I don't think he offers anything apart from feeding Kohli's ego. Ganguly also was a egoistic but he was a great captain who got best out of players, similarly dhoni too. I just don't see that with Kohli.
I know IPL is not international cricket and all but for Kohli to not win one IPL as a skipper tells something is off about his captaincy. The same will happen with this Indian side if this Kohli- shastri combo is not broken. Anyone who challenges them is sidelined, be it Kumble or Ashwin or now Rohit. And that comes from shastri. Kohli needs to get out of his comfort zone and have a new strategists take the helm.
A decade back India used to produce some of the flattest deck but in last 5 or 6 years England, Nz and Australia are doing that. Matches in India actually look more competitive and there is something for the bowlers too. This indian side is not made for the flat decks which is strange as decadr back India were known to excel in that.
You can question the flat tracks produced by Australia all you want but the Indian cricket team seriously lacks balance. We have no pie-chuckers, no "batsmen who can bowl a bit". I know you can't produce all-rounders overnight but this is a serious problem.
I also don't understand the bowling performance here. We've seen Australia bowl so differently to India. Aussies had pace, slower ones and bowled wide yorkers or slow bouncers etc at the Indian batsman whereas the Indian bowlers had next to no variations.
The Indian bench strength is piss poor too. Here's the bench in today's game {as per cricbuzz}:
Swap any current player in the playing 11 with these players and you're not getting any obvious improvement. Knowing Kohli's captaincy, he might bring in Manish Pandey for Mayank Agarwal and have KL Rahul open and bench Saini and bring on Shardul Thakur - but that doesn't fix the balance of the team, IMO.
Kohli's batting hasn't been worthwhile either. He scored 80-odd runs at run a ball, while chasing 390. This would be good if you had someone else going after the bowling at the other end, but for most of his innings, he had Shreyas Iyer, who's another accumulator and can't play an innings like Smith or Maxwell or Labuschagne.
If anything, this series has exposed the weakness in Indian team and there's no real answer here.
I also don't understand the bowling performance here. We've seen Australia bowl so differently to India. Aussies had pace, slower ones and bowled wide yorkers or slow bouncers etc at the Indian batsman whereas the Indian bowlers had next to no variations.
The Indian bench strength is piss poor too. Here's the bench in today's game {as per cricbuzz}:
Code:
Manish Pandey, Sanju Samson, Kuldeep Yadav, Shardul Thakur, T Natarajan, Shubman GillSwap any current player in the playing 11 with these players and you're not getting any obvious improvement. Knowing Kohli's captaincy, he might bring in Manish Pandey for Mayank Agarwal and have KL Rahul open and bench Saini and bring on Shardul Thakur - but that doesn't fix the balance of the team, IMO.
Kohli's batting hasn't been worthwhile either. He scored 80-odd runs at run a ball, while chasing 390. This would be good if you had someone else going after the bowling at the other end, but for most of his innings, he had Shreyas Iyer, who's another accumulator and can't play an innings like Smith or Maxwell or Labuschagne.
If anything, this series has exposed the weakness in Indian team and there's no real answer here.
We went the other way for sure. Thats why I rate Kohli as captain - he was the one who pushed for a change and weirdly we excel on bowler friendly wickets.
The big tournaments have had good pitches without exception. Hopefully the next one at home is on 250-270 pitches and we don’t need to bother with putting together a team for 370 chases. That’s beyond us right now and it’s terribly boring to watch in any case.
If you give chasing 350+ a real go, you'll either end up all out for 220 or get real close. India in the last 2 games have scored their typical 300-330 that they always score when batting first.
That's a mentality/approach issue.
That's a mentality/approach issue.
I still don't think we should be conceding 350 plus. I thought none of our bowlers were smart today bar Pandya. Look at cummins, bowling slower deliveries and mixing it well. Hazelwood did the same and so did Henriques. Even zampa bowled intelligently. I agree with our batting intent but we also have to look at the bowlers and Kohli the captain. Like why did saini even bowl the final over. Why doesn't kohli speak to his bowlers and ask him to try something different. This is the same issue when he captains RCB. He just doesn't strategies the game well and let's the game drift away on too many occasions.
The biggest positive from the game is that pandya bowled 4 overs. If the plan is to take ot slowly with him, I am in board with that. The focus should be to have the all-rounder pandya ready for the t20 world cup next year.
England win the series, although they made hard work of it.
I’m not sure I’m enjoying 350 being a par score in 50 over cricket. I don’t care how good the pitch it, a lot needs to go right with very little margin for error chasing those totals.
This is simply the influence of T20. Nothing much has changed in regards to the quality of cricket pitches in the last 20 years, just the mind set. You can't really do anything about it but im sure promoters love it because runs get arses on seats and it forces the chasing side to be aggressive from the outset.
EFA.
With all stadiums but the Gabba using drop in pitches and Cricket Australia wanting high scoring games or Long test matches for revenue it will not change any time soon.
This England batting is ridiculous 
Let's hope they can carry this through to the WC.