Craig Pawson

Appalling.

There was nothing corrupt about it. Competence aside, Pawson was clearly impacted by the appalling refereeing Brighton were abused by recently, so he bent over backwards to accommodate Brighton in this game.
 
Appalling.

There was nothing corrupt about it. Competence aside, Pawson was clearly impacted by the appalling refereeing Brighton were abused by recently, so he bent over backwards to accommodate Brighton in this game.

And the interesting bit is if it was a unilateral decision on his part or if he was suggested by his superiors to be more accommodating to Brighton.

They got shafted in a PL match, why should they be provided with favors for a cup semi final? Can understand if the refs were less harsh on them a little bit during their next PL matches, but today was blatant incompetence.

So hard to be objective when it is clearly incorrect and consistently inconsistent.
 
Just glad our players didn't do one of those red card tackles which Brighton players did. You know our players will be given the red without hesitation and VAR will pick it up even if the ref didn't.
 
I definitely think this plays a role. There’s an ingrained bias there certainly.
It's also the punditry too in my opinion. If you go on match of the day or whatever, any time we get a decision that's 60/40 against us, they analyse the shit out of it for 10 minutes. If there's a 60/40 we SHOULD have had? Not a fecking word. And that's not just ingrained bias - it's -information bias-. If you keep telling people that man Utd get all the decisions - but you never mention the ones we don't get - referees and fans will always have the opinion that we are lucky with decisions so any bad decision we do get is evening things out. It's a propaganda battle.

Never forget how much money Manchester City have and how much they spent getting the media on their side early on to their ownership of that club. We, on the other hand, always had an acrimonious relationship with the media - remember Ferguson banned the BBC for their bullshit bias. How could he have gotten away with that if there wasn't truth in what he said? And look what's happened since. They got their revenge. This isn't rawkish conspiracy or anything - this is revenge.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/aug/25/alex-ferguson-lifts-bbc-ban
 
Can VAR interfere/check for a potential second yellow card?
 
Can VAR interfere/check for a potential second yellow card?
Only if the referee did not see the incident. There’s no way he didn’t see that incident.
 
Only if the referee did not see the incident. There’s no way he didn’t see that incident.

So VAR couldn't do anything about the Mitoma/De Gea incident. Still, absolutely ridiculous that Pawson didn't card him and send him off.
 
Can VAR interfere/check for a potential second yellow card?

Only if the referee did not see the incident. There’s no way he didn’t see that incident.

Nope. They can only interfere if it was a straight red. Regardless of whether referee saw it or not, if it was just a yellow card challenge, VAR can't intervene.
 
A booked player backs off and plays more conservatively, which affords the opposition more time and space. Every booking earned but not given to Brighton negatively impacted our team. There were 3 or 4 instances that would have given new impetus to our attack had they been given.
I get that argument. There's some truth in it, although I'd say the biggest factor in Brighton having time and space is DDG hoofed the ball constantly, nobody reached them, and I don't think we had the energy in the team after Thursday. Having a yellow doesn't really stop you getting close, it stops you taking significant risks such as going to ground unnecessarily.

He gave us what..3 yellows. To me that's not a game changing scenario. They probably also weren't wrong. So the specific area that was wrong was failing to give Brighton a few extra. And that's it..in 120 mins of football. So yes it goes down as a poor and inconsistent game but the amount of whining over it and conspiracies is well OTT and completely disproportionate to the situation for me.
 
There was a Brighton fan on here hoping they got the game called fair, well they got that and then some!
 
Guess your benchmark of bad refereeing is Barca Chelsea level of blatant corruption.

Didn't put himself in way!! That's just bollocks. He tried a lot, but Brighton were wasteful. They had their chances.
They had chances because they play some good football and they were playing a noticeably fatigued team, trying to find their way after getting battered in Europe.

Anybody that didn't expect to concede chances would have been in cuckoo land. That was feck all to do with Craig Pawson.
 
Well that's just silly. Corrupt? Poor, maybe. Corrupt is a stupid word to use. What do you reckon was happening here?
You're the silly one, if you can't see what was going on. Pawson clearly applied a different set of criteria for awarding free kicks and cards to United from what he applied to Brighton.

The Kag summed it up perfectly, and you are clearly in a minority on here, after reading what the other posters have written about Pawson yesterday.

"Don't forget the one on Dalot during that counter. Taken down by a challenge that was about three hours late, but no yellow. It completely changes the landscape of a match when one team essentially has impunity, whilst the other one doesn't. It affects how you pressure, tactical fouls, substitutions, morale and temperment, etc. It doesn't much matter to me as to what the "why" is. Pick your poison; incompetence, hatred, bribery, the end result is the same. Objectively terrible refereeing which has no place in the game, let alone a semi-final. I don't see how anyone could argue in favor of that performance. Referee was an absolute disgrace."
 
I get that argument. There's some truth in it, although I'd say the biggest factor in Brighton having time and space is DDG hoofed the ball constantly, nobody reached them, and I don't think we had the energy in the team after Thursday. Having a yellow doesn't really stop you getting close, it stops you taking significant risks such as going to ground unnecessarily.

He gave us what..3 yellows. To me that's not a game changing scenario. They probably also weren't wrong. So the specific area that was wrong was failing to give Brighton a few extra. And that's it..in 120 mins of football. So yes it goes down as a poor and inconsistent game but the amount of whining over it and conspiracies is well OTT and completely disproportionate to the situation for me.

To be fair, I don't think there were any significant decisions he had to make. I.e disallowed goal/penalty etc from a Utd side. So it could have been a lot worse.. if Utd had one of the studs up fouls Brighton had... or a second yellow foul..

And yes, not yellow carding players making cynical fouls does make a big difference.
Some of the fouls Brighton got away with were hilarious and then because they weren't punished.. they get freedom to have another go. While Utd didn't get that luxury.
The one on Wan Bissaka was one of the worst decisions I've seen this season.

When even some Brighton fans were saying they got a little lucky with the decision making.. it was pretty blatant.
 
Nope. They can only interfere if it was a straight red. Regardless of whether referee saw it or not, if it was just a yellow card challenge, VAR can't intervene.
Var only intervenes in anything if it involves upgrading Casemiro’s yellow to a red. I’ve never actually seen them do anything else.
 
Pawson played some advantages to United after fouls that were yellow cards all day long. Then He didn't go back and book the Brighton player. Brighton got away with an awful lot yesterday. On the other hand Pawson couldn't get the card out quick enough when it was a United player. Poor refereeing.
 
I get that argument. There's some truth in it, although I'd say the biggest factor in Brighton having time and space is DDG hoofed the ball constantly, nobody reached them, and I don't think we had the energy in the team after Thursday. Having a yellow doesn't really stop you getting close, it stops you taking significant risks such as going to ground unnecessarily.

He gave us what..3 yellows. To me that's not a game changing scenario. They probably also weren't wrong. So the specific area that was wrong was failing to give Brighton a few extra. And that's it..in 120 mins of football. So yes it goes down as a poor and inconsistent game but the amount of whining over it and conspiracies is well OTT and completely disproportionate to the situation for me.
I disagree, Craig. It’s not when you finally booked Brighton in the 90th minute, it’s the fact you let them stop counters at will, commit dangerous tackles, and then didn’t allow United the similar freedom that smacks of bribery.
 
Pawson played some advantages to United after fouls that were yellow cards all day long. Then He didn't go back and book the Brighton player. Brighton got away with an awful lot yesterday. On the other hand Pawson couldn't get the card out quick enough when it was a United player. Poor refereeing.
There was one point a Brighton player absolutely clotheslined a United player and deserved a booking, but we were attacking so he waved advantage. Rashford loses the ball about 0.5 seconds later, and nothing more was said about it. So no yellow card, and no advantage either!
 
I disagree, Craig. It’s not when you finally booked Brighton in the 90th minute, it’s the fact you let them stop counters at will, commit dangerous tackles, and then didn’t allow United the similar freedom that smacks of bribery.
:lol:

I wish I was on Craig's salary. The over the table one would do.

I think if you have already gone down the rabbit hole of believing in bribery, which many of the posters here seem to then it probably explains why mountains are being made of molehills.

I just think he's a less than average ref, there are better ones around the PL so there's no surprise he makes poor decisions. There's no conspiracy. It all sounds a bit like Liverpool fans to me.
 
Still don’t understand how Brighton ended the match with only 1 yellow. They stopped numerous counter attacks of ours and didn’t receive a card.
 
An arrogant Cnut of a ref who I’d love to boot a ball against like Bruno on Frenkie.
 
:lol:

I wish I was on Craig's salary. The over the table one would do.

I think if you have already gone down the rabbit hole of believing in bribery, which many of the posters here seem to then it probably explains why mountains are being made of molehills.

I just think he's a less than average ref, there are better ones around the PL so there's no surprise he makes poor decisions. There's no conspiracy. It all sounds a bit like Liverpool fans to me.

I don't buy the bribery angle but the bias angle is clear for all to see. You can make all the arguments you like about it not affecting the game yesterday but the fact is Shaw got booked for a professional foul in the first half and so could not risk another booking throughout which is an advantage to the attacking side. Webster committed more egregious and cynical fouls on 4 separate occasions without being booked, had the same standard been applied and Pawson carded him after the first then that is 3 subsequent incidents where he would not have been able to stop us countering and any one of those could have led to a goal.

It is ifs and buts I get it, but clearly Webster was concerned enough about the potential of conceding from those situations to commit a clear foul to stop our attack. Of course, the other side to it too is had he been carded when he should have been then if he had then continued to commit blatant fouls and the rules are fairly applied he would have ended up being sent off and again that clearly impacts the game in our favor. I don't think anyone is too upset specifically about yesterday as we thankfully got the result but it is just clear evidence of another official who applies the laws differently to us than he does our opposition and we have been burned by this multiple times this season.

Could also add that properly reffed they may well have been more reluctant to scythe our players down with impunity in the second half and who knows then if we might have scored to win it inside the 90. We have played more games than anyone else this season and the extra 30 minutes on Sunday does us no favors with a freshly humiliated Spurs side up next, doubtless looking to redeem themselves.
 
Last edited:
So VAR couldn't do anything about the Mitoma/De Gea incident. Still, absolutely ridiculous that Pawson didn't card him and send him off.

He let Welbeck clatter De Gea, then the Mitoma one was even worse.

Must have missed the rule that you can utterly wipe the keeper out if you were "trying" to score.
 
I get that argument. There's some truth in it, although I'd say the biggest factor in Brighton having time and space is DDG hoofed the ball constantly, nobody reached them, and I don't think we had the energy in the team after Thursday. Having a yellow doesn't really stop you getting close, it stops you taking significant risks such as going to ground unnecessarily.

He gave us what..3 yellows. To me that's not a game changing scenario. They probably also weren't wrong. So the specific area that was wrong was failing to give Brighton a few extra. And that's it..in 120 mins of football. So yes it goes down as a poor and inconsistent game but the amount of whining over it and conspiracies is well OTT and completely disproportionate to the situation for me.
I did some analysis on the impact it has on games we play under another ref who generally always gives us more yellows than the opposition. Our win rate drops from around 74% to around 53%. It has a massive impact.
 
I did some analysis on the impact it has on games we play under another ref who generally always gives us more yellows than the opposition. Our win rate drops from around 74% to around 53%. It has a massive impact.

EtH even said the other day, maybe it was after Sevilla 1st let, he subbed out Bruno because the ref/4th official said he was close to getting a 2nd yellow.

"Ten Hag revealed he was also told by referee Felix Zwayer that Fernandes was on thin ice and could have already been sent off earlier in the match. 'Because Bruno was throwing the ball away, the (referee said the) next (time) he'd be off,' Ten Hag continued.

'But he saved him because Sevilla did the same in the first half and the player from Seville got booked for it.' 'I don't want to take the risk'.

How anyone can say yellow cards don't matter are little too cynical. You're one wrong tackle or foul to being sent off.
 
So VAR couldn't do anything about the Mitoma/De Gea incident. Still, absolutely ridiculous that Pawson didn't card him and send him off.

VAR would never get involved after what happened with them against Brighton. It was obvious that the referee was never going to do anything that will create a disadvantageous scenario.
 
Must have missed the rule that you can utterly wipe the keeper out if you were "trying" to score.
Yeah. I do believe this is a standard yellow card. One of those they give against United and while it "feels harsh" pundits claim we can't complain because it's naive going in like that. Then another game going for United they say it's undeserved, harsh and lucky for United. Maybe even the ref gave United an advantage. That is why he didn't give it, to not give the game any 'unfair luck' or advantage either way. But In the end, they're just biased as feck. Ref clearly just gives the advantage to the other team, not really considering that these narratives he takes into consideration, isn't balanced.
 
What annoyed me was the amount of times he didn't book them for cynical fouls, which happened at least three times. You pull someone's shirt when they're past you and it's an automatic yellow.
 
I did some analysis on the impact it has on games we play under another ref who generally always gives us more yellows than the opposition. Our win rate drops from around 74% to around 53%. It has a massive impact.
It's an interesting statistic. Without having studied it, my instinct would be that increased yellow cards compared to opposition would correlate with a negative impact on results in a wider sense than a sampled referee.

But I think care should probably be taken if the idea is take such a statistic and say that the correlation is the causation of results dipping. Increased likelihood of picking up yellow cards may indicate other things about teams and about specific matches that are contributing to the same downturn in results.

Just a general thought on this, I'm not aware of the ref you're talking about, nor do I have any feelings on said refs supposed bias etc. Obviously if refs are actually biased and not just biased in the minds of fans then it doesn't require any advanced statistics to know the results will be impacted, that would presumably be the aim!
 
People calling him corrupt are giving him far to much credit.

Its not corruption, it's incompetence and it's rife in so called top level referees.

It also annoys me how they hide behind the treatment of volunteers at the very lowest levels of the game to avoid criticism.
 

Pawson doesn’t have a very good view of it to be fair.

Keith Hackett reminds me of this fella:
fetchimage



Or worse he’s like a Tory MP being interviewed defending his mates, dying a little inside every time he says something he knows is indefensible
 
The undeniable reality is that United enjoyed so much success for so long and that our fanbase is so massive that there is an element of jealousy and resentment toward United by many, including referees. When it's Goliath v David, David is going to get the 50/50 calls their way and more than a few 30/70 calls their way as well. It's the nature of the beast we're dealing and although we're right to moan about it, there is literally nothing that can be done to prevent the kind of appalling refereeing by Pawson from happening again and again.
 
What I don’t get is how their left back escaped with no punishment. Webster should have been carded, but at least they were sly fouls. Their left back literally grabs and holds back AWB which he calls advantage for, so he obviously saw; then later dives and hrabs Antony’s leg, trying to stop a counter. Really couldn’t get more obvious than that
 
I'd like to think and hope it's not corruption. I don't think it's even incompetence.

I think the refs are a big part of setting a narrative/trying to influence the game particularly in favour of the small teams to create a story/drama.

Also the whole country loves it when Utd are beaten or hard done by hence you see clearly biased refereeing in favour of Brighton or the refereeing against us all season.

I would love to know what some of the Brighton fans on here thought about the ref in the game.
 
I'd like to think and hope it's not corruption. I don't think it's even incompetence.

I think the refs are a big part of setting a narrative/trying to influence the game particularly in favour of the small teams to create a story/drama.

Also the whole country loves it when Utd are beaten or hard done by hence you see clearly biased refereeing in favour of Brighton or the refereeing against us all season.

I would love to know what some of the Brighton fans on here thought about the ref in the game.

What narrative? They couldn't wait to give City that penalty against Sheffield.

The narrative that i see is some people in power want to see City with Treble, and create a good PL story.
 
Last edited:
The undeniable reality is that United enjoyed so much success for so long and that our fanbase is so massive that there is an element of jealousy and resentment toward United by many, including referees. When it's Goliath v David, David is going to get the 50/50 calls their way and more than a few 30/70 calls their way as well. It's the nature of the beast we're dealing and although we're right to moan about it, there is literally nothing that can be done to prevent the kind of appalling refereeing by Pawson from happening again and again.
City has been 8 times (going 9) League winners in the last 12 years, and came 2nd in between. I don't see any Goliath vs David with them.
 
What narrative? They couldn't wait to give City that penalty against Sheffield.

The narrative that i see is some people in power want to see City with Treble, and create a good PL story.
I agree with you. There are certain narratives and stories they want to create. I only gave one example.