Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th

[Member 101269]

No, I'm suggesting that it will be possible to have a system whereby people are able to pay to watch individual matches if they want to, therefore allowing some of the revenue lost to be regained. This could allow for buying tickets for individual matches or a seaonal/ subscription. Some people will not want to, others will realise that this is the only way they can watch the match. If matches end up being BCD during some periods (and it's hard to imagine than this won't be the case, especially with future waves) then this would allow a portion of people to continue to watch their team. It's trying to make the best of a bad situation.

No, you're advocating a condomised experience. You're advocating mitigation for one season towards another based on Darwinism and the flawed economic model. No, it's not trying to make the best of the situation, it's advocating a greater disequilibrium of competition.

Which team do you have season tickets for?

Guess

 

[Sandikan]

I think people are also underestimating a technical solution when they think of income lost through BCD. It won't be long until there are solutions in place to allow (for example) season ticket holders to stream the games, or people to buy tickets for matches on a PPV basis, even if the stream is much more amateur (no commentary etc). Given the volume of money in place, there's no way that clubs and leagues are going to just lose out. It's not a trivial problem to solve, especially when it comes to rights, protecting smaller club vieweship etc, but if this is going to go on for a while, then some things will happen. There are already plenty of discussions happening around streaming services so this will probably accelerate it.

I have season tickets at two teams..league one and premier league.

While having access to say ifollow to watch Wycombe is similar to the season ticket price £10 v £13 for united a ticket is £40 so would be of sort of substitute. The games are easily available online anyway.

 

[arnie_ni]

Thing is though, even if they do that, they will probably just double down on it the following season where everyone who qualified for the last two seasons get to play.

They could do a 64 team tournament the following year (with every team that's qualified in the two season's plus the highest ranked teams that didn't to make up the numbers) and ultimately it will still only be two more games for the teams that make it to the RO16 and beyond, and will require no more match day slots as instead of spreading out the RO16 in four weeks they will just do what the Europa does and have RO32 and RO16 done in those four weeks. The CL would be the easiest thing to work round when all said and done.

If they have to cut it next year they will go big to make up for it after that.

They could, but i can't see that being announced now.

If United, Chelsea, arsenal and spurs are all told no European football next year they'll just say scrap it.

 

[Sandikan]

The second UEFA announce no European competitions next year that number will jump i think

Makes good sense to bin europe for one season. Makes it much to void leagues for one thing.

The worst thing for me with voiding is if they wipe player records. Which i suppose has to happen unfortunately.

But it seems to swinging back towards voiding it now. A day or two back id have said they'll play it whenever or just award.

 

[Dancfc]

Makes good sense to bin europe for one season. Makes it much to void leagues for one thing.

The worst thing for me with voiding is if they wipe player records. Which i suppose has to happen unfortunately.

But it seems to swinging back towards voiding it now. A day or two back id have said they'll play it whenever or just award.

Yeah that's another reason I don't want it to happen, I think it may be a bigger blow to players than people think, especially young players.

For example imagine being Reece James when he's realises his breakthrough moment in senior football against Ajax is now no more? Or even Lampard when he's technically not the first manager to do the double over Mourinho anymore.

As much as players and managers tell you the only thing that matters is trophies (which are ultimately the most important thing), these little things matter to them too.

 

[redman5]

Makes good sense to bin europe for one season. Makes it much to void leagues for one thing.

The worst thing for me with voiding is if they wipe player records. Which i suppose has to happen unfortunately.

But it seems to swinging back towards voiding it now. A day or two back id have said they'll play it whenever or just award.

The Mirror article says that voiding is off the table & the clubs will be asking for curtailment, which pretty much means current standings as final.

 

[arnie_ni]

The Mirror article says that voiding is off the table & the clubs will be asking for curtailment, which pretty much means current standings as final.

Will never happen imo

 

[Dumbstar]

The Mirror article says that voiding is off the table & the clubs will be asking for curtailment, which pretty much means current standings as final.

A bit sneaky from Bobs there, not attaching the link to the article either. Well done for following up.

 

[Dannic]

No, you're advocating a condomised experience. You're advocating mitigation for one season towards another based on Darwinism and the flawed economic model. No, it's not trying to make the best of the situation, it's advocating a greater disequilibrium of competition.

I'm not sure where this comes from. I didn't mention anything about a particular season at all, just a comment on the long term effects of BCD play on the finances of clubs that need gate receipts. It sounds like you are so anti the concept of BCD that you'd rather football stopped completely until crowds can return, regardless of how long that is. Personally I think that we're going to see a long, slow return to large crowds, interspersed with backwards steps where things have to be reduced again. Who knows, we might not even see a full return until towards the end of next season.

And in reference to the condomised experience. Some people still prefer that to no experience.

I have season tickets at two teams..league one and premier league.

While having access to say ifollow to watch Wycombe is similar to the season ticket price £10 v £13 for united a ticket is £40 so would be of sort of substitute. The games are easily available online anyway.

The games are easily available "now' (well, when football was actually on), but a certain proportion of people still chose to pay for services to watch matches. I'm not saying that this can replace all revenue for clubs, but in a scenario where clubs cannot have crowds in attendance, some extra money is going to be welcome, especially for those teams that may struggle to stay afloat.

 

[dwd]

The Mirror are gospel now in the Scouse hearts

 

[Sandikan]

The Mirror article says that voiding is off the table & the clubs will be asking for curtailment, which pretty much means current standings as final.

Yeah reading the actual article it's another nothing one.
The papers are just slowly covering every angle so they can say "like we told you" when whatever is decided.

The truth is still that the virus dictates what will happen and all ideas will be met with fury by different people.

 

[stevoc]

Guess

No thanks.

I think the point of the post you replied to was a PPV system for match going fans to watch their team if a significant portion of games in the near future are BCD.

So if you support a lower league side then a PPV service could stop some or hopefully any clubs going out of business. If next season or most of it has to be BCD, which is why i asked.

 

[Redcy]

I'm not sure where this comes from. I didn't mention anything about a particular season at all, just a comment on the long term effects of BCD play on the finances of clubs that need gate receipts. It sounds like you are so anti the concept of BCD that you'd rather football stopped completely until crowds can return, regardless of how long that is. Personally I think that we're going to see a long, slow return to large crowds, interspersed with backwards steps where things have to be reduced again. Who knows, we might not even see a full return until towards the end of next season.

And in reference to the condomised experience. Some people still prefer that to no experience.




The games are easily available "now' (well, when football was actually on), but a certain proportion of people still chose to pay for services to watch matches. I'm not saying that this can replace all revenue for clubs, but in a scenario where clubs cannot have crowds in attendance, some extra money is going to be welcome, especially for those teams that may struggle to stay afloat.

It would only work for pl and maybe a handful of championship clubs. There is no way you are getting more than 10% of people paying for bcd football. You don’t really go to league 1 games for the actual football.

 

[Redcy]

No thanks.

I think the point of the post you replied to was a PPV system for match going fans to watch their team if a significant portion of games in the near future are BCD.

So if you support a lower league side then a PPV service could stop some or hopefully any clubs going out of business. If next season or most of it has to be BCD, which is why i asked.

No way are lower league club fans going to pay £10 per game in large numbers. They’ll get free streams or not bother. I’d it’s bcd the efl will have to cover the cost, and maybe take any Ppv money as a bit of cash back.

 

[KetilOwren88]

The most sensible solution if the season is voided is to cancel European football next season, but UEFA and top clubs would not accept that. It’s all about the money

 

[stevoc]

No way are lower league club fans going to pay £10 per game in large numbers. They’ll get free streams or not bother. I’d it’s bcd the efl will have to cover the cost, and maybe take any Ppv money as a bit of cash back.

Well i don't know what the fee would have to be. But I seem to missing an important factor here, or at least it might be me.

If a club/s are in jeopardy of going to the wall because of a lack of match day revenue. I would have thought most of their regular match going fans would want to help them out financially. So they would still have a club to go and watch when fans are allowed back into games, whenever that may be.

 

[Dave Smith]

People thinking UEFA will scrap the CL next season are on crack. No way is that decision happening until it is 100% impossible as for most big clubs in Europe, and UEFA themselves, it is their biggest source of income. The CL is a lot different to the leagues. For instance with the CL, two easy ways of ensuring that plays next season is to;

1) Regionalise the group stage of the competition. Do this and the group stages can go ahead with not too much travel except for the teams that are from the East.

Or

2) Make it straight KO. They could start the thing in Feb and still have plenty of time to finish it.

It is one thing to void this seasons, another to void next season as well as this seasons.

As for the PL season, the players contracts where always going to be the biggest hurdle that meant it going beyond the 30 June was impossible. The only question will be what they will do to solve things. From seeing what they are doing in Belgium and Scotland my money is now on standings as they are, even if a void is fairer for more teams other than those who fluke a European place and get a piece of silverware.

 

[Sandikan]

It would only work for pl and maybe a handful of championship clubs. There is no way you are getting more than 10% of people paying for bcd football. You don’t really go to league 1 games for the actual football.

What? So what am i going to league one games for?

Don't be one of those only the premier league matters clowns. There's a reason why we have the finest array of football clubs in the world.

 

[Sandikan]

No way are lower league club fans going to pay £10 per game in large numbers. They’ll get free streams or not bother. I’d it’s bcd the efl will have to cover the cost, and maybe take any Ppv money as a bit of cash back.

What are you basing this one off?
Ifollow is already a growing platform for league one and two games. Ten pounds is the current fee, which compared to an average league one ticket price of about £22 isn't bad.
They can't currently show saturday 3pms but if that's taken off it'll only expand in interest. Especially if it's the only way of seeing your lower league club, as unlike premier league you can't find it on streams.

 

[sp_107]

I think lockdown will end in most of the countries by May end means still they have 1 month to finish 9 games by end of June (A game every days behind closed doors in UK or less affected countries like Qatar)

Still its a possibility so better not too excited about any false hopes of season getting void.

 

[Finn MacCool]

Would lower league clubs save much on match day costs if it was bcd? Just thinking if they saved say 20% of their costs (no stewards etc) could they then reduce cost of streaming vs a full ticket?

 

[EwanI Ted]

I think lockdown will end in most of the countries by May end means still they have 1 month to finish 9 games by end of June (A game every days behind closed doors in UK or less affected countries like Qatar)

Still its a possibility so better not too excited about any false hopes of season getting void.

Lockdown ending is plausible for the end of May, but there will still be hard social distancing in place for a lot longer than that. I’d be very surprised if they let football games go ahead until a later phase of normality returns (even behind closed doors).

 

[Judas]

Only reason we'd want the season to continue was for CL football next season, but if Europe isn't going to happen, which logically seems very likely, yeah more than happy to void the season, and I don't see why the club wouldn't be too, why bother with nothing to play for while risking so many lives.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Lockdown ending is plausible for the end of May, but there will still be hard social distancing in place for a lot longer than that. I’d be very surprised if they let football games go ahead until a later phase of normality returns (even behind closed doors).

German League is due to kick off again behind closed doors in a few weeks. Teams are training already there. I think they’ll give it a shot here at least. I guess it all falls apart if players get the virus.

 

[Pink Moon]

9 Prem clubs according to The Mirror now in favour of voiding the season if it cannot be completed by 30 June - which is 100% going to be the case. Not even a minuscule possibility.

Will be interesting to see how many of those 9 clubs refund season tickets for the 19/20 season.

 

[Sandikan]

Would lower league clubs save much on match day costs if it was bcd? Just thinking if they saved say 20% of their costs (no stewards etc) could they then reduce cost of streaming vs a full ticket?

It's probably neutral between reduced expenses and no food etc sold.
But a big negative of no ticket sales outside of the season tickets, which they probably have to offer to return.

 

[Finn MacCool]

It's probably neutral between reduced expenses and no food etc sold.
But a big negative of no ticket sales outside of the season tickets, which they probably have to offer to return.

Brings it all into focus when you consider everyone debating how prem should conclude when lower league clubs have to factor in the loss of revenue from pies and burgers in their survival plans. Makes me detest people like Raiola even more, if that’s possible.

 

[Sandikan]

Brings it all into focus when you consider everyone debating how prem should conclude when lower league clubs have to factor in the loss of revenue from pies and burgers in their survival plans. Makes me detest people like Raiola even more, if that’s possible.

Supporting a lower league team as well as Utd gives me a balance a lot of fans don't. (Iike the guy above sneering at the idea of who is going to pay to watch lower league teams..erm..their fans?!)

That's why i don't tend to see united 5th in the league as a disaster, as I've seen Wycombe be within a ball hitting a cross bar rather than going in, at a game 100miles away, keep us even in the football league, when going non league would have bankrupted us!

 

[Dancfc]

Supporting a lower league team as well as Utd gives me a balance a lot of fans don't. (Iike the guy above sneering at the idea of who is going to pay to watch lower league teams..erm..their fans?!)

That's why i don't tend to see united 5th in the league as a disaster, as I've seen Wycombe be within a ball hitting a cross bar rather than going in, at a game 100miles away, keep us even in the football league, when going non league would have bankrupted us!

Out of curiosity what are your emotions when one of Wycombe/United win on the same day and the other loses?

Like if Wycombe won the play off final the same day United lost the CL final to Liverpool what the hell would you feel?

I ask because from living in Berlin I grew a soft spot for Hertha and want them to do well but I just don't have the headspace for two teams to take up such emotional investment.

I'm not at all saying it's wrong everyone's entitled to support how ever many teams they wish but from my perspective I couldn't imagine from going through the wringer with another team at three o clock only to then dive straight into a Chelsea game against Arsenal when I'm still getting my emotions and thoughts from the other match in check, how do you do it?

 

[FootballHQ]

Here's an interesting side part to this:

The forgotten victims of football's covid 19 shutdown are running out of cash.

St John Ambulance paramedics are regular fixtures at matches. But with no sport for the past month, and no sign of an imminent return, the financial hit is immense.

Sport provides a large percentage of SJA's normal 1.6million weekly income. Instead many of the 750 volunteers who normally clock in at football grounds are working night and day in the fight against covid.

It costs around 1.5k a year to train up and provide each volunteer with their neccesary equipment. But fears are growing that SJA will not be able to fulfil its normal functions when sport is given the o.k to return.

 

[FootballHQ]

Out of curiosity what are your emotions when one of Wycombe/United win on the same day and the other loses?

Like if Wycombe won the play off final the same day United lost the CL final to Liverpool what the hell would you feel?

I ask because from living in Berlin I grew a soft spot for Hertha and want them to do well but I just don't have the headspace for two teams to take up such emotional investment.

I'm not at all saying it's wrong everyone's entitled to support how ever many teams they wish but from my perspective I couldn't imagine from going through the wringer with another team at three o clock only to then dive straight into a Chelsea game against Arsenal when I'm still getting my emotions and thoughts from the other match in check, how do you do it?

Do you go to any Berlin games? I think actually going to the game and slowly getting invested in the ups and downs over a 90 minutes of the team you have a soft spot for will slowly suck you in.

I know it has for me going to watch Walsall home and also away on plenty of occasions in last decade. @Sandikan is a regular at Adams Park so it's not a case of just checking Wycombe's result at 5pm on Soccer Saturday. Man. United is probably the slightly more detached of the two although I could be miles out on that one!

 

[RobinLFC]

It would only work for pl and maybe a handful of championship clubs. There is no way you are getting more than 10% of people paying for bcd football. You don’t really go to league 1 games for the actual football.

What in the world are you even talking about. Seems like you have absolutely no clue about being loyal to a lower league team.

 

[Sandikan]

Out of curiosity what are your emotions when one of Wycombe/United win on the same day and the other loses?

Like if Wycombe won the play off final the same day United lost the CL final to Liverpool what the hell would you feel?

I ask because from living in Berlin I grew a soft spot for Hertha and want them to do well but I just don't have the headspace for two teams to take up such emotional investment.

I'm not at all saying it's wrong everyone's entitled to support how ever many teams they wish but from my perspective I couldn't imagine from going through the wringer with another team at three o clock only to then dive straight into a Chelsea game against Arsenal when I'm still getting my emotions and thoughts from the other match in check, how do you do it?

It's a good question.
I think the key is expectations. With United there's much more, so a bad result leaves me stewing more. With Wycombe you can be disappointed but leave most of it at the game.

There's also the element that one team can rescue weekend if other loses.

Wycombe were having a superb season. Bottom 3-4 budget in league one at best and we were top for months. We're 8th currently but a win of our game in hand would take us joint 2nd i think..so it's all to play for..if it restarts.
If they do it on points per game and bin off play offs we would go up as 3rd!!

But generally I think you get less upset with results as you get older. And it's definitely been less upsetting these last few years as we haven't been up for the big trophies to feel those blows.

I did think i was going to have a heart attack watching city v qpr in 2012 was it? The stress watching that was immeasurable and then the sickening feeling at 3-2.

Much worse than Wycombe losing the playoff final v Southend on pens having conceded on about 120mins in 2015 or so.

Peak feeling? When Utd beat City away with a Scholes 90th min header ,listening in the car, then stepping into the hated Mk's ground to see Wycombe beat them 3-2 with a last min winner.

Both teams winning at rivals away in the last min. On the same day?! Once n a lifetime job!

 

[Sandikan]

Do you go to any Berlin games? I think actually going to the game and slowly getting invested in the ups and downs over a 90 minutes of the team you have a soft spot for will slowly suck you in.

I know it has for me going to watch Walsall home and also away on plenty of occasions in last decade. @Sandikan is a regular at Adams Park so it's not a case of just checking Wycombe's result at 5pm on Soccer Saturday. Man. United is probably the slightly more detached of the two although I could be miles out on that one!

No, you're spot on pal in terms of physical detachment. But United get me more steamed as per my above waffle.
Season tickets at both, but generally do all the Wycombe home games and say 8-10 United a season. Would only generally miss Wycombe if it's City or Liverpool clashing. 4mile trip v 180 one way.

And this year for different reasons only 2 games at OT. Was already thinking of subbing the ST down to a membership before this corona stuff came along..be coming too much hassle having to get pals in for the games i wasn't doing. Makes much more sense to pick a few games and just buy them! Worked well for years though.

 

[Dancfc]

Do you go to any Berlin games? I think actually going to the game and slowly getting invested in the ups and downs over a 90 minutes of the team you have a soft spot for will slowly suck you in.

I know it has for me going to watch Walsall home and also away on plenty of occasions in last decade. @Sandikan is a regular at Adams Park so it's not a case of just checking Wycombe's result at 5pm on Soccer Saturday. Man. United is probably the slightly more detached of the two although I could be miles out on that one!

I only actually went to one as I was usually working at a weekend and when I weren't flying back to watch Chelsea and/or see family and freinds took priority, they won 1-0 with ironically Kalou scoring

I did a couple of tours there also (once to see it for myself and another to show a visiting freind) and it's an incredible stadium, combines historic and modern elements to perfection, case in point look at the contrast behind both goals.

It's a good question.
I think the key is expectations. With United there's much more, so a bad result leaves me stewing more. With Wycombe you can be disappointed but leave most of it at the game.

Wycombe were having a superb season. Bottom 3-4 budget in league one at best and we were top for months. We're 8th currently but a win of our game in hand would take us joint 2nd i think..so it's all to play for..if it restarts.
If they do it on points per game and bin off play offs we would go up as 3rd!!

But generally I think you get less upset with results as you get older. And it's definitely been less upsetting these last few years as we haven't been up for the big trophies to feel those blows.

I did think i was going to have a heart attack watching city v qpr in 2012 was it? The stress watching that was immeasurable and then the sickening feeling at 3-2.

Much worse than Wycombe losing the playoff final v Southend on pens having conceded on about 120mins in 2015 or so.

Peak feeling? When Utd beat City away with a Scholes 90th min header ,listening in the car, then stepping into the hated Mk's ground to see Wycombe beat them 3-2 with a last min winner.

Both teams winning at rivals away in the last min. On the same day?! Once n a lifetime job!

Interesting, I haven't got much more to add but I feel the need to say thanks for the response haha.

I will say I remember that Scholes goal aswell as we were in the business end of a title race Vs eachother at the time, it genuinely felt like we conceded that goal ourselves and I think it played a huge part in our poor performance Vs Spurs later that day, saw it again a few months ago and even knowing it didn't cost us I still struggled seeing it, I dread to think how much i would resent it if it did

 

[Sandikan]

I only actually went to one as I was usually working at a weekend and when I weren't flying back to watch Chelsea and/or see family and freinds took priority, they won 1-0 with ironically Kalou scoring

I did a couple of tours there also (once to see it for myself and another to show a visiting freind) and it's an incredible stadium, combines historic and modern elements to perfection, case in point look at the contrast behind both goals.


Interesting, I haven't got much more to add but I feel the need to say thanks for the response haha.

I will say I remember that Scholes goal aswell as we were in the business end of a title race Vs eachother at the time, it genuinely felt like we conceded that goal ourselves and I think it played a huge part in our poor performance Vs Spurs later that day, saw it again a few months ago and even knowing it didn't cost us I still struggled seeing it, I dread to think how much i would resent it if it did

There's nothing quite like your rival scoring in a tight game in a nip and tuck title race.
I miss driving back from Old Trafford and listening to Chelsea playing a later game and hoping madly for you to drop points!

Often a forlorn hope. Not a drive back job but remember when you faced Wigan last day. A draw and youd risk losing the title.

About 3mins in that bloated oaf Caldwell got sent off and you won 8-0 if i remember right!!

 

[Dancfc]

There's nothing quite like your rival scoring in a tight game in a nip and tuck title race.
I miss driving back from Old Trafford and listening to Chelsea playing a later game and hoping madly for you to drop points!

Often a forlorn hope. Not a drive back job but remember when you faced Wigan last day. A draw and youd risk losing the title.

About 3mins in that bloated oaf Caldwell got sent off and you won 8-0 if i remember right!!

Nah we scored early on and then that red card came about half an hour in.

I remembed fretting badly the week leading up to it, uptill that day I don't think we ever beat Wigan by more than 2, I was genuinely expecting a heart stopping afternoon similar to what City had two years later.

 

[Sandikan]

Nah we scored early on and then that red card came about half an hour in.

I remembed fretting badly the week leading up to it, uptill that day I don't think we ever beat Wigan by more than 2, I was genuinely expecting a heart stopping afternoon similar to what City had two years later.

Ah the red must have just been the final straw of hope going!

Can't remember if that was the season Chelsea won 2-1 at OT with the drogba cheeky handle. That was the first loss id seen and i was shocked!

 

[Scriblerus]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/15/premier-league-clubs-ending-season-30-june
Story in the Guardian says a Friday meeting of PL clubs will press the idea of ending season on 30 June (to avoid legal nightmare of contracts expiring) even if not all games have been played. If they manage a few BCD in June, how on earth are they going to arrive at an agreed league table? Can't see it working.

 

[Greck]

Question is if a game will be played before a vaccine is found