Could Ten Hag guide United to the Premier League title?

We're currently a long way off challenging for the title and ETH needs a very good transfer window.

However, winning two cup trophies is a stepping stone to competing for major honours like the EPL. The club has tasted success under his leadership.

Plus, he has the likes of Mainoo and Garnacho who are young and could develop into genuine world-class players.
 
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erikcred said:
I mean, we won't be playing for pride against City and Liverpool all season long. Where's the motivation going to come from when getting trounced by Bournemouth at home?
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I think your missing the key ingredient. The "Retained Manager Bounce" we get will be amazing to behold.

I really do believe that.
 
Can’t see it happening soon. The squad still needs “surgery of the open heart”. There are too many average players on stupid contracts who won’t be leaving before their contracts end, so this is going to be a slow turnaround imo.
 
Only if they take him off picking players to sign and make him play to a style that will take us forward, will we even have a remote chance, but it won’t be next season.
 
FortunaUtd said:
I don't know whether he can but I do know that from 8th to 1st a rather huge improvement is necessary.
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It's this. And Man City and Arsenal had a +62 goal difference while we had -1. So roughly we're gonna have to score 31 more goals and concede 31 less
 
He can but not with the way the club is and these players. When Pep leaves, city should drop off slightly and we’ll have other teams come through. That’s what we need to be building for because it will happen sooner rather than later.
 
FortunaUtd said:
I don't know whether he can but I do know that from 8th to 1st a rather huge improvement is necessary.
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Arsenal (almost) did that in a couple of seasons (but it was several seasons of effort behind the scenes in reality). Leverkusen went up from 60 points (6th) to 90 points (1st) in successive seasons. Leaving freak runs like Leicester aside, big clubs do fall of course due to mismanagement and deviating from fundamentals, but eventually revert to mean once they set certain things right. AC Milan is a recent example.
 
I hope so, but there is a lot of evidence that suggests otherwise. He is not good enough.
 
Matt851 said:
Wtf is this thread, did you actually watch any of the games last year?
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You and I both seem to think we have no chance, but several posters on here do believe that if MCFC weren't here, we'd win it.

Here are the facts:
We finished 8th last year, which means that 7 other teams would have to vanish from our league, for us to have won the league. Mathematically, it's a bit more complicated than that, but this is a simplified way of looking at things.
The previous year we finished 3rd. This means that if 2 teams (AFC and MCFC) had vanished, we'd have been victors. The issue with that season was that it felt that we were overperforming. Nonetheless, we did well and finished 3rd.
The year before, we finished 6th, which means that 5 teams would need to vanish for us to have won the league that season.

In summary,
1, the issue isn't MCFC or Pep. Even if MCFC were demoted, it would be VERY unlikely that we'd win the league because several other teams are better placed than us.
2, even if we do improve, under ETH we are so wretchedly bad, we'd still maybe finish in 3rd or 4th.
3, looking at our most recent season, we finished on a negative goal difference, in 8th place - we are nowhere near ready to compete for a league title.
4, given that we are now holding onto a manager who finished in 8th place, the board's aspirations are lower than they were in years gone by.

I realise that many of you want to live in hope, but for the next few years, we need to accept that the structure, management and players simply aren't in the right position to win a big trophy.
I certainly don't see ETH being able to win a league title with any EPL team - he isn't good enough and his results over the last 3 years have shown this. He should be fired, but the board don't appear to have the ambition or the financial resources to make the necessary changes to compete with the leading teams.
 
bringbackbebe said:
Arsenal (almost) did that in a couple of seasons (but it was several seasons of effort behind the scenes in reality). Leverkusen went up from 60 points (6th) to 90 points (1st) in successive seasons. Leaving freak runs like Leicester aside, big clubs do fall of course due to mismanagement and deviating from fundamentals, but eventually revert to mean once they set certain things right. AC Milan is a recent example.
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I know someone who won the lottery.
I wouldn't rely on winning the lottery to pay my bills, though.
Similarly, there are isolated (freak) examples of teams who have improved dramatically, but I wouldn't use that as the basis to predict MUFC improving hugely.
If ETH finishes top 4 next again with MUFC, he'll have done very well, given his own limitations and the team's abilities.
 
sunama said:
I know someone who won the lottery.
I wouldn't rely on winning the lottery to pay my bills, though.
Similarly, there are isolated (freak) examples of teams who have improved dramatically, but I wouldn't use that as the basis to predict MUFC improving hugely.
If ETH finishes top 4 next again with MUFC, he'll have done very well, given his own limitations and the team's abilities.
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The freak incident here is the situation where we've spent 1b+ but aren't consistently getting top 4. That is not difficult to rectify IMHO. A club the size and power of Manchester United should be right there at the top.
 
bringbackbebe said:
Arsenal (almost) did that in a couple of seasons (but it was several seasons of effort behind the scenes in reality). Leverkusen went up from 60 points (6th) to 90 points (1st) in successive seasons. Leaving freak runs like Leicester aside, big clubs do fall of course due to mismanagement and deviating from fundamentals, but eventually revert to mean once they set certain things right. AC Milan is a recent example.
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I'd be interested if there ever was a case, say in the last 25 years in the top 5 leagues, where a team finished 8th in their league and then later went on to win a league title with the same manager.

Only one comes to mind is Klopp who however took over a 10th place team midseason so that is beside the point.
 
red.knight said:
Numerous threads and discussions have been made regarding the potential dismissal of Ten Hag. However, INEOS has opted to keep him. Therefore, it's worth discussing what Ten Hag could accomplish at Manchester United moving forward. Admittedly, this season has been marred by poor performance and results. Many overlook the profound impact of the significant injuries to our players on our overall season. Without these setbacks, it's highly likely that we would have secured a top-four finish. Even in such adversity, we finished the season just eight points from the top four.

Ten Hag has already demonstrated his capability to guide our team to a top-four finish in his first season. Our improved performance in the FA Cup final and in the latter part of the season suggest that Ten Hag is adaptable. Arteta, in his initial two seasons at Arsenal, finished eighth, and in his third, fifth. His journey is a testament to the fruits of patience and backing for long-term success. Under a proper footballing structure and support from INEOS, I firmly believe Ten Hag can easily secure a top-four finish and add to our trophy cabinet next season. Ten Hag is a winner and has all the qualities needed to lead United to success. Three finals and two trophies in two seasons under difficult circumstances are no easy feat. With his winning mentality, there's every possibility of Ten Hag bringing the Premier League trophy to Old Trafford within the next three to four years. This is a statement I stand by confidently.
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This feels a lot like it was written by AI.
 
With the right backing he could. We need to make sure we’re ready to take advantage for when city drop of and Arsenal.
 
Of course not.
- A very lucky 8th place with a negative GD. (xPts have us 14th).
- Last in an easy CL group.
- Net spend of €360m. Squad worse
- Tactically inept, doesn’t adjust.
- Thinks signs of declining are signs of improvement.

League performance patterns are much more predictive than domestic cup performances
 
He’s proven he is a winner so I don’t see why given a decent squad why he couldn’t, but I don’t see this squad being anywhere near challenging for a while especially if we only have a 50 mil budget. So feels like by the time we are actually in a position to challenge he’d have been moved on already due to fan impatience.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
He’s proven he is a winner so I don’t see why given a decent squad why he couldn’t, but I don’t see this squad being anywhere near challenging for a while especially if we only have a 50 mil budget. So feels like by the time we are actually in a position to challenge he’d have been moved on already due to fan impatience.
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And how many years would you give ETH to get into a position to challenge?

I'm assuming you're one of the lucky fans who don't suffer from this debilitating fan impatience condition.
 
This "proven winner" thing always makes me laugh. Like, okay, we're going to use cups to reach that conclusion. But then we also have to conveniently forget the worst performances and results by an English side in CL. In a group with Galatasaray and Copenhagen even.
 
RobertoBaggio99 said:
Of course not.
- A very lucky 8th place with a negative GD. (xPts have us 14th).
- Last in an easy CL group.
- Net spend of €360m. Squad worse
- Tactically inept, doesn’t adjust.
- Thinks signs of declining are signs of improvement.

League performance patterns are much more predictive than domestic cup performances
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This.

People need to stop using cup runs as a predictor of league results. They're two different animals.

Ten Hag wants to play on the break. Winning the league that way is setting yourself up to fail. There's simply not enough control or reliability to be consistent enough over a full season.

Even teams like Liverpool and Real Madrid who also play a lot of transitional football, also know how to dominate possession and dictate the tempo in games.

Ten Hag and "The United Way" simply don't take possession seriously enough to establish a dominating, controlled way of playing. Most teams who win or challenge for a league title average 60-65% possession. Meanwhile, we struggle to average 55% possession. There's just no way that's reliable enough to create enough high quality chances, not to mention preventing chances conceded.

So no matter how many cups he might win, there's no way Ten Hag will win the league with United playing how he wants to play. We also have way too many players who simply don't thrive in possession, but rather want to constantly attack. This includes Rashford, Garnacho, Højlund and Bruno.

Most people want us to improve our defense and midfield, which I agree that we really need to do. But our attacking line is just as much in need of better players who can keep the ball for 10 seconds without giving it away.
 
Forget the manager. I don’t think any manager will win a major trophy at Utd until the football side of the club makes big decisions and gets them correct. Big decisions that won’t always be popular, but would be brave like actively trying to get huge money for Rashford. If they did something like that this summer my interest would peak, but I’m not convinced they are all that ruthless and that they won’t fall into the same trappings that have hurt the club previously. The squad isn’t anywhere near good enough and it still needs major surgery to compete for a title. We need to do what arsenal did with Aubamayang and bite the bullet to get rid of the problem players.
 
erikcred said:
And how many years would you give ETH to get into a position to challenge?

I'm assuming you're one of the lucky fans who don't suffer from this debilitating fan impatience condition.
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It’s not really something you can put a time limit on, just have to evaluate the actual level of the squad and what he manages to achieve with that squad. If our squad vastly improves but then he severely underachieves its potential then you have to look to letting him go.

Vice versa if we don’t start improving the squad then you can’t really expect more than an outside chance of top 4, never mind challenging for a title. Especially when the teams above us are so far ahead in development that unless something drastic happens it’s hard to see us making any real title challenge for at least 3 years.

As for the patience I just don’t think fans actually see our situation for what it is and seem to believe we have a god given right to be challenging. They seem to think that there is some magic silver bullet to get that done. The thing that is going to make that happen is time and resources.

However in a time where we all want things instantly the impatience will grow, the media will scrutiny will build and by that time United will have very little choice other than to move him on. Then likely-hood same thing will happen to the next manager.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Forget the manager. I don’t think any manager will win a major trophy at Utd until the football side of the club makes big decisions and gets them correct. Big decisions that won’t always be popular, but would be brave like actively trying to get huge money for Rashford. If they did something like that this summer my interest would peak, but I’m not convinced they are all that ruthless and that they won’t fall into the same trappings that have hurt the club previously. The squad isn’t anywhere near good enough and it still needs major surgery to compete for a title. We need to do what arsenal did with Aubamayang and bite the bullet to get rid of the problem players.
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I’m of the same mind. Some decisions would obvioulsy take some serious balls, like moving on Rashford, that would actually be seismic if they did such a thing but I just don’t see them having that sort of strength to be able to do that.

But we as a fan base might have to take a little dirt in face a bit longer whilst they actually build the foundations for sucess and that is going to start by planning a squad and age profile of it a few years in advance. Then additions And replacements as and when needed every few cycles.
 
He's a mediocre manager who's best chance at trophies is cup competitions. There is no chance that he could lead us to a title. He has no consistency and has poor game management. We need more than luck and vibes to win a title. This shouldn't even be a question if you've been paying attention since he's been here.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
No he doesn’t. He has been forced to play that way because we don’t have the players to do otherwise. He pretty much says as such in his interview with Gary Neville.
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This isn't true. He said he plays this way to suit our best players and due to the legacy of the club. But he's signed the players to play this way so he does want to play this way. Top managers play their style regardless and bin off anyone who can't do it. Ten Hag bends to his players and has changed his style to suit them despite it clearly not working. If he wants to change the style of play it's on him, he isn't forced to do anything.
 
Not a chance he wins the league here but it doesn’t seem like this will be club’s goal for the foreseeable future so it shouldn’t rule him out as a long term manager for us. He has proven himself as a good cup manager and could very well win 2-3 more cups in the next 5-6 years while consistently delivering top 5-6.
 
mintyred said:
This isn't true. He said he plays this way to suit our best players and due to the legacy of the club. But he's signed the players to play this way so he does want to play this way. Top managers play their style regardless and bin off anyone who can't do it. Ten Hag bends to his players and has changed his style to suit them despite it clearly not working. If he wants to change the style of play it's on him, he isn't forced to do anything.
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Watch the interview from 17 minutes on.

This is true but then you have to be able to get rid of players like Rashford, Bruno, McT, Maguire, Bissaka and then be able to bring in players.

Could you just imagine the outcry if he sat Rashford and Bruno on the bench or tried to sell them?
 
Andersons Dietician said:
Watch the interview from 17 minutes on.

This is true but then you have to be able to get rid of players like Rashford, Bruno, McT, Maguire, Bissaka and then be able to bring in players.

Could you just imagine the outcry if he sat Rashford and Bruno on the bench or tried to sell them?
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I watched the interview and what I said was correct. It doesn't matter what the outcry is, he's a manager not a politician and it doesn't mean benching anyone, he has to give them the chance to adapt. What you're speaking about is weak people philosophy and if you're weak you shouldn't be Manchester United manager.
 
mintyred said:
I watched the interview and what I said was correct. It doesn't matter what the outcry is, he's a manager not a politician and it doesn't mean benching anyone, he has to give them the chance to adapt. What you're speaking about is weak people philosophy and if you're weak you shouldn't be Manchester United manager.
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:lol:
You see the contradiction right?
 
In my opinion the reason he did so well in his 1st season was because he had less 'ten hag players'.

He had to work around trying to get the best out of De Gea, Martial, Varane, Maguire, Rashford, AWB etc etc and all try and make it tick.

In season two, we got rid of our previous managers players to get more 'ten hag players' in & our quality actually went down.

What does this say?

Ten Hag has to work with a squad built for him by a DOF. Not let Ten Hag build a squad himself. This is why he was good at Ajax because it was either overmars or van der sar making decisions about majority of the squad.

With a DOF dictating the rebalance of the squad - i do think its possible, yet impossible whilst Pep is here in England.

If Pep leaves for another job then i can see Ten Hag going up against Arteta for example, now that Klopp has gone.

The quality of manager is simply too high in the PL but at the same time it's only Pep deciding to leave that makes the managers more plateaued in capacity.

Do i see it next year? No, but do i see it in the next 5 years? Possibly.
 
Worst finish in United EPL history, negative goal difference, NEGATIVE GOAL DIFFERENCE over 38 games!

400m player purchase
10 plus players from 23 man squad that are deemed deadwoods, half of them is his own purchase

But somehow next year ETH gonna get 95 pts and win the league. Because somehow INEOS gonna provide him with tactical instructions, better sets of players which he will have no input on.

Might as well make Berada the head coach

Good lord!
 
Sky1981 said:
Worst finish in United EPL history, negative goal difference, NEGATIVE GOAL DIFFERENCE over 38 games!

400m player purchase
10 plus players from 23 man squad that are deemed deadwoods, half of them is his own purchase

But somehow next year ETH gonna get 95 pts and win the league. Because somehow INEOS gonna provide him with tactical instructions, better sets of players which he will have no input on.

Might as well make Berada the head coach

Good lord!
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He certainly has to turn it around in order to even challenge for top 4. This question is a bit premature in my opinion.

let’s see how he copes next season when the first spell of bad results come in and he’s under huge pressure
 
I actually think he'll be gone by Christmas. I'm sure ineos will put certain clauses in his new contract that we can have a clean break if we're not achieving the goals set.

Otherwise, a new two year contract could end up a very expensive mistake.
 
We need one solid season. Nothing flash.

- Play more young players
- Create a squad that has like-for-like depth
- Create a training regime that doesn’t see injuries occur 90% in between matches.

Finishing a STRONG 4th-6th is completely acceptable with a Cup win, on a sliding scale.

6th and a Europa League win is good.
5th and an FA Cup win is acceptable.
4th and a League Cup win is good.

It’s not all about getting closer to Arsenal and City. It’s more about having a strong season that sees us this time next year thinking we can kick on again, with a younger fit squad that has had a consistent year. No dramas. No player bullshit. Ending the season with a team you can look at and think ‘We’ve got 7 here. We need a few more, but we have 7 players to challenge for top trophies’.

Then having a good summer to enable another click towards a title challenge the following year.

Any fan expecting miracles this year is very silly.
 
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