Cop in America doing a bad job, again

Some fcuked up stories there, especially the young Guatemalan shot by border patrol. Couldn't he just fire a warning shot?
 
vi1lain said:
What are the repercussions for a cop lying on a police report?

Why don't more cops speak out against bad cop behaviour?

Why are untrained civilians expected to be the only ones to act rationally?

So many questions.
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It would depend on the department, but lying on a report is a pretty serious offense. If you get caught in a lie it could often result in suspension leading up to termination for more serious incidents. You basically lose all credibility and cannot testify in a court of law, which is one of the important basic duties of being a sworn officer. People that have worked at Internal Affairs have always stressed "if you're ever sitting in front of IA because you fecked up, just tell the truth and say you fecked up and take your 5 day suspension. Cause if you lie, you die ".
 
RedPed said:
The guy asked what can be done to change things and you suggested that he reach out. You really think that is going to help?? It's the responsibility of the police to be building the community relations by being transparent, trustworthy and basically just doing their fecking job! The general public shouldn't have to make any effort to do this. I don't understand why you seem intent on putting the onus on the public to reconcile their understanding of police behaviour rather than focusing on why it is happening in the first place.

Ride-alongs should just be for people who are curious as to what cops do on a day-to-day basis, not for building faith and trust in their police services.

Reasoning with a cop after an incident of police brutality is just like reasoning with a gun lobbyist after yet another mass shooting. They will always find excuses and justifications.
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Officers who go about doing their job on a day to day basis are the majority of officers out there, regardless of what you might believe. Again, I was offering suggestions, just as I’ve welcomed suggestions before. I fail to see the issues in that open discussion in that regard. Just because you don’t agree with the suggestion, doesn’t mean there’s no merit there.

As for the bolded part, I think the LEO’s here have all been relatively impartial in regards to the incidents posted here. We’ve offered our insights wherever we can to offer a different perspective, and flat out condemned some actions as well. As @choiboyx012 said, not every incident is black and white, and not everything is police brutality, regardless of how it first seems, or the first story that’s released.
 
choiboyx012 said:
It would depend on the seriousness of it. If it's illegal, unethical, and immoral then yes i would, especially if it directly involves a person's (or partner's) life.
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That pretty much sums up the problem right there. It's either illegal...or it isn't. You shouldn't be making any judgements as to whether actions merit reporting. If they fall beyond the bounds of a policeman's remit, just report it!
 
RedPed said:
That pretty much sums up the problem right there. It's either illegal...or it isn't. You shouldn't be making any judgements as to whether actions merit reporting. If they fall beyond the bounds of a policeman's remit, just report it!
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We've got officers that drive more than the speed limit, or don't wear a seatbelt. That's illegal. Is it reasonable for me to go crying to the watch commanders office and say officer so-and-so went 50mph on a 45 road?

See, I do have the power to make judgments to report certain things or not, it's called discretion and we use it every day. I can't, nor do i want, to cite or arrest every offense and offender i come across. It'd be a huge waste of time, money, and resources. So you pick and choose your battles with minor stuff. Same thing goes for fellow officers. If you see your partners fecking up, or doing something unsafe, you can hit them up verbally and squash it there. If it rises to something more serious like using force when it wasn't warranted, or lying on a report, then yes that's something all cops should report truthfully.

That's what i meant by it depends on the seriousness of the offense.
 
Skizzo said:
It wasn’t intended to be patronizing at all. Someone asked what I suggest they could do, and I offered some suggestions in terms of reaching out to law enforcement as well as local groups who may have a solid understanding of community issues and events. Not sure how you took such offense to it

I’m not sure who you seem to think is rationalizing or making excuses for bad behavior in here. I think anyone tied to law enforcement who posts here has taken a similar stance on the issues as most, while also maintaining there’s far less “scum” than you’d like to believe.
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It didn't seem patronising to me Skizzo.
 
I dont think it was patronizing but I do think its the wrong way of approaching the issue. As others have said, the police have the responsibility to behave lawfully. It's not the public's job to be more understanding of police abuse or lawbreaking or lying.
 
Eboue said:
I dont think it was patronizing but I do think its the wrong way of approaching the issue. As others have said, the police have the responsibility to behave lawfully. It's not the public's job to be more understanding of police abuse or lawbreaking or lying.
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Where did I suggest you become understanding of “police abuse, lawbreaking or lying”?

It was one suggestion offered out of a few. If you think posting twitter links to redcafe is more beneficial, then that’s fine too.

Edit: I understand your desire to highlight issues within different facets of law enforcement, and that absolutely shouldn’t be taken lightly. I don’t think anyone here disagrees with your posts on the matter :)
 
Skizzo said:
I didn’t say you had to. It was a suggestion to someone who asked a question. Not a requirement, a suggestion. I see no harm in suggesting a ride along to someone who has concerns or questions about the day to day happenings in law enforcement. Not to mention getting that face time with an officer/department to help raise concerns of your own.

I didn’t say it solves all the problems, but I fail to see what problems you see with that kind of community relation.
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Skizzo said:
This is a serious question, and I don’t intend it to be condescending or confrontational, but you obviously feel strongly (as you should), so what are you doing to try and change things rather than posting tweets to a football forum where people (mostly) agree with the issues raised?
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I've no idea how you've connected those two statements.
 
Skizzo said:
-inserts whatever answer redped wants to hear to continue his crusade-
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Whatever man, you carry on! I don't have any crusade!

Bent cops will always do what bent cops do. We both know that will never change!
 
RedPed said:
Whatever man, you carry on! I don't have any crusade!

Bent cops will always do what bent cops do. We both know that will never change!
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:)

I’m not entirely sure what you think we’re disagreeing on. You just came right off the bat calling me condescending when I was having a discussion with someone else.
 
utdalltheway said:
Is ICE trying to reduce border crossings by families with kids by setting some examples?
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That is the suspicion.

Not sure its actually ICE though.

Their role is investigations and they cover multiple areas like illegal immigration, drug trafficking and sex trafficking etc. If you're in the country illegally they are the guys that will knock down your door. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) are the ones that arrest people at the border. Citizenship and Immigration Services are the ones that will process immigrants and asylum seekers.

All the agencies fall under Homeland Security though so the lines might get a little blurred.
 
Mike Schatner said:
That is the suspicion.

Not sure its actually ICE though.

Their role is investigations and they cover multiple areas like illegal immigration, drug trafficking and sex trafficking etc. If you're in the country illegally they are the guys that will knock down your door. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) are the ones that arrest people at the border. Citizenship and Immigration Services are the ones that will process immigrants and asylum seekers.

All the agencies fall under Homeland Security though so the lines might get a little blurred.
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there is an example of ICE doing it literally 2 posts ago
 
Silva said:
there is an example of ICE doing it literally 2 posts ago
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Post 1875? That was CBP not ICE. It was at the border and it states border officers.

Its irreverent which agency it is anyway. The policy needs to change. To bash LEO and agencies that are simply applying the laws based on policy decisions is counter productive. ICE happen to do some very valuable work as well so to tarnish the entire organization is simply wrong.

Anger and protests should be focused on DC.
 
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Silva said:
https://www.amnestyusa.org/press-re...h-fathers-separated-in-immigration-detention/
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Fair enough.

Interesting article that. They say ICE are breaking Homelands own rules but ICE is part of Homeland. ICE are responsible for the detention facilities. Up until last year the detention facilities were not treated like prison, they had different rules and requirements. However Trump changed that and now they operate under the same rules as a prison. I wonder if that change is the driver for separating kids from parents when they go into detention now?

What ever the reason ICE and all the other agencies are operating under the direction of Homeland and policies set by the administration. The system should show some compassion and treat the people properly while they are being processed. What is going on is a direct result of Trump and the people at the top not individual LOE officers and agents.
 
https://www.azcentral.com/picture-g...igrant-children-at-holding-facility/10808687/

First glimpse of immigrant children at holding facility

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Two female detainees sleep in a holding cell. Children are separated by age group and gender. CPB provided media tours Wednesday of two locations in Brownsville, Texas, and Nogales, that have been central to processing the more than 47,000 unaccompanied children who have entered the country illegally since Oct. 1.
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This is the part they are broadcasting...
 
And this is the part they're not:
ACLU OBTAINS DOCUMENTS SHOWING WIDESPREAD ABUSE OF CHILD IMMIGRANTS IN U.S. CUSTODY

The report is based on over 30,000 pages of documents dated between 2009 and 2014. The documents were obtained by the ACLU Foundation of San Diego & Imperial Counties and the ACLU Foundation of Arizona through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit co-counseled with Cooley LLP. The documents feature numerous cases of shocking violence and abuse against migrant children, many of whom arrived in the United States fleeing violence in their home countries.

“The students reviewing these records were shocked by the abuse and neglect these children were subjected to at the hands of U.S. officials. The fact that these children were already so vulnerable — most traveling alone in hopes of escaping violence and poverty in their home countries — made the unlawful and inhumane actions reflected in the documents even more distressing,” said Claudia Flores, faculty director of the International Human Rights Clinic at the University of Chicago Law School.

Law students in the International Human Rights Clinic examined a subset of the records obtained. The documents show numerous cases involving federal officials’ verbal, physical and sexual abuse of migrant children; the denial of clean drinking water and adequate food; failure to provide necessary medical care; detention in freezing, unsanitary facilities; and other violations of federal law and policy and international law. The documents provide evidence that U.S. officials were aware of these abuses as they occurred, but failed to properly investigate, much less to remedy, these abuses.

Examples of the documented abuses include allegations that CBP officials:

  • Punched a child’s head three times
  • Kicked a child in the ribs
  • Used a stun gun on a boy, causing him to fall to the ground, shaking, with his eyes rolling back in his head
  • Ran over a 17-year-old with a patrol vehicle and then punched him several times
  • Verbally abused detained children, calling them dogs and “other ugly things”
  • Denied detained children permission to stand or move freely for days and threatened children who stood up with transfer to solitary confinement in a small, freezing room
  • Denied a pregnant minor medical attention when she reported pain, which preceded a stillbirth
  • Subjected a 16-year-old girl to a search in which they “forcefully spread her legs and touched her private parts so hard that she screamed”
  • Left a 4-pound premature baby and her minor mother in an overcrowded and dirty cell full of sick people, against medical advice
  • Threw out a child’s birth certificate and threatened him with sexual abuse by an adult male detainee.
The report also shows evidence of CBP holding migrant children in excess of the 72-hour maximum period permitted by law, as well as officials’ efforts to deport children without due process and via coercion.
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https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-obta...-widespread-abuse-child-immigrants-us-custody
 
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