Cop in America doing a bad job, again

Il Prete Rosso said:
It's always easy to say this when the person who's dead has absolutely nothing to do with you. And besides I don't know what you're trying to insinuate here. Even though he knew they were cops and a helicopter was overhead, I still don't see the need for the police to take his life away.
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Just looking at the actual facts and how things panned out. Of course no one should ever lose their life.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Tased and beaten up for jaywalking.

Jaywalking seems like a stupid offence anyway. How come Americans accept this law? With all the fuss about freedom of speech and the right to bear arms why doesn’t everyone demand to be treated like adults when it comes to going out for a walk?!
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It's a bullshit law that cops use to hassle minorities.
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
Tased and beaten up for jaywalking.

Jaywalking seems like a stupid offence anyway. How come Americans accept this law? With all the fuss about freedom of speech and the right to bear arms why doesn’t everyone demand to be treated like adults when it comes to going out for a walk?!
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I think jaywalking was introduced as an offence soon after the civil war.

Yes, found a source:
Although slavery was illegal, southern states empowered by the 13th Amendment instituted the Black Codes, which would eventually become the infamous Jim Crow Laws. Black Codes and Jim Crow laws increased the severity of petty crimes, and acts such as loitering or jaywalking resulted in imprisonment. A majority of newly freed African Americans found themselves in prison, and back on the plantations.
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https://www.ramapo.edu/law-journal/...ed-social-historical-look-mass-incarceration/

There was a revealing moment when Joe Kennedy, Democrat and former prosecutor, said the quiet part out loud - he opposes marijuana legalisation because then there will not be an easy way to stop and search cars. Here: https://reason.com/blog/2018/04/01/rep-joe-kennedy-iii-is-sad-that-pot-lega
 
berbatrick said:
I think jaywalking was introduced as an offence soon after the civil war.

Yes, found a source:

https://www.ramapo.edu/law-journal/...ed-social-historical-look-mass-incarceration/

There was a revealing moment when Joe Kennedy, Democrat and former prosecutor, said the quiet part out loud - he opposes marijuana legalisation because then there will not be an easy way to stop and search cars. Here: https://reason.com/blog/2018/04/01/rep-joe-kennedy-iii-is-sad-that-pot-lega
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That’s interesting. It’s a fecking terrible law. Infantilising fully grown adults. Surprised there isn’t more of a fuss made about it. Take away their guns and everyone loses their mind. Take away their right to walk across roads and that’s all just fine, apparently.
 
There used to be a female cop at one of the crossing at a side road near Tampa-bay Lightnings stadium on game day. If you dared to put a foot on the crossing light was red but there was no traffic ANYWHERE in sight she went ballistic on you.
 
I don't understand how this total and completely subjective ("I felt threatened") immunity for the police can be ok in a nation that still believes itself "land of the free".

In a ruling Monday, a majority of the Supreme Court, in a review of what by all appearances is one of the least justified shootings imaginable, held that law enforcement is almost always right. In Kisela v. Hughes, police in Tucson, Arizona, responded to a call that a woman was hacking at a tree with a knife. When they arrived, Amy Hughes came outdoors holding a kitchen knife at her side. Hughes didn’t respond immediately to requests to drop it. Two officers held back but one saw that as reason to shoot, hitting her four times and leaving her gravely wounded. She survived and sued.

In an unsigned opinion, the court rejected Hughes’ claim of excessive force, saying officers are entitled to immunity unless previous cases clearly tell them a specific use of force is unlawful. True enough, there may not be a previous case where the life of a tree was at stake. But here, Associate Justice Sonia Sotomayor, in a blistering dissent, found that no one’s life was at stake: Hughes did not raise the knife in the direction of the police, or her roommate. She wasn’t behaving erratically or verbally threatening anyone. The ruling, Sotomayor wrote, shows an “unflinching willingness” to intervene prematurely to wrongly grant immunity.
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https://www.thedailybeast.com/supreme-court-no-lives-matter-if-a-cop-feels-threatened?ref=home
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That’s interesting. It’s a fecking terrible law. Infantilising fully grown adults. Surprised there isn’t more of a fuss made about it. Take away their guns and everyone loses their mind. Take away their right to walk across roads and that’s all just fine, apparently.
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Are you criticising the “Land of the Free”? ;)
The system here is broken and most people don’t have a clue what it should be.
 
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Skizzo said:
We usually do comment on most incidents.
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Do you get training or guidance on being absolutely sure that a perp is holding a weapon? I just can't believe that the Clark shooting cops could clearly ID a gun under those circumstances. It seems to me that if we grant you the power to take lives in the performance of your duties then you should have to be damn sure that it's necessary.
 
Grinner said:
Do you get training or guidance on being absolutely sure that a perp is holding a weapon? I just can't believe that the Clark shooting cops could clearly ID a gun under those circumstances. It seems to me that if we grant you the power to take lives in the performance of your duties then you should have to be damn sure that it's necessary.
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I don’t believe there’s any training you could undergo to be absolutely certain with no room for error that someone is holding a gun. Not just in this specific situation, but a lot of officer involved shootings.

There’s videos of people committing suicide by cop by taking a shooting stance and pointing a cell phone, or a sunglasses case, or a finger. In that split second you have to react to a situation and you make your best good faith effort of how you perceive it.

There’s situations of horrible shoots, where the police were 100000000% in the wrong. (The Scott shooting for instance). There’s others where people latch onto a false narrative and crucify the police before the facts come to light (The Brown shooting for instance). Lastly, and by no means is there only these three types of instances, are cases where officers have reacted according to the totality of the circumstance, and as they perceive it at the time. Look at the Graham factors in Use of Force policies, and consider the CTRF factors at play, and then ask someone to make a decision in a split second as to whether or not you’re going to shoot, or if you’re going to get shot. Police officers are human, and humans make mistakes. We’ve had incidents where officers have been reluctant to act in the appropriate manner due to not wanting to be vilified by media, and the public, and been hurt or killed because of it.
 
vi1lain said:
Yeah, though I stopped when I saw one of the cops wearing a Blue Lives Matter hat.
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How come?

I don’t mean how come that put you off, as I know how you feel about that “movement”, as it were. I was just curious if you didn’t find the show in general interesting enough to carry on with?
 
Skizzo said:
How come?

I don’t mean how come that put you off, as I know how you feel about that “movement”, as it were. I was just curious if you didn’t find the show in general interesting enough to carry on with?
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It’s pretty one dimensional.
It gave a brief history of flint, and I liked the parts where the residents would be speaking at town halls and such.

Outside of that?
It centres mostly on the police community, the two love birds, the mother and son duo, the new police chief etc.
I kinda have a feeling it’ll focus on how militarised the police force gets, and I don’t need to see that.

I don’t really see what it’s going to do to benefit me or give me any other perspective.

But if you can tell me otherwise, I’m open to watching it again.
 
vi1lain said:
It’s pretty one dimensional.
It gave a brief history of flint, and I liked the parts where the residents would be speaking at town halls and such.

Outside of that?
It centres mostly on the police community, the two love birds, the mother and son duo, the new police chief etc.
I kinda have a feeling it’ll focus on how militarised the police force gets, and I don’t need to see that.

I don’t really see what it’s going to do to benefit me or give me any other perspective.

But if you can tell me otherwise, I’m open to watching it again.
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I agree, the community aspects were the best thing about it. I personally didn’t care for the “bio’s” on the officers. Not sure if it was included to try and show a “look we’re regilar people” kind of spin or what, but it took momentum away from the show.

Personally I enjoyed it for the reason above that we both touched on. Seeing the interaction between the police and the community. It’s a unique circumstance in which the numbers are hugely disproportionate, and they have very unique struggles in terms of the town itself and all they’ve gone through. Granted, I don’t see it as a piece that will change someone’s opinion on the current climate, but I don’t think a show about anything would.

More than anything i hope it sparks more of a nationwide discussion about issues and things that need to happen. Although, I don’t hold out much hope.

On a side note, and this is open to yourself, or anyone. I just finished FTO training, so will be taking out new officers who come to our office after graduating the academy, and training them to see if they make it off the field training phase. I plan on having a variety of discussions across topics since we’ll have time to kill in the car while hunting those ticket quotas ;) if there’s a perspective or topic that you think would be good to broach, or something you would like to hear a new officers perspective and thoughts on, let me know. This is probably a little far out of left field, but I’m open to hearing suggestions, in PM or otherwise :)
 
Skizzo said:
Anyone been watching “Flint Town” on Netflix?
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Watched a couple episodes. Too depressing for me. But makes me really appreciate my job and am reminded of how good i have it.

Didnt like the whole hard charging unit and how they'll enforce every little chickenshit violation. Especially when the issue is staffing numbers and resources. Other depts have similar units but should only be deployed for serious crimes and crime areas
 
Skizzo said:
I agree, the community aspects were the best thing about it. I personally didn’t care for the “bio’s” on the officers. Not sure if it was included to try and show a “look we’re regilar people” kind of spin or what, but it took momentum away from the show.

Personally I enjoyed it for the reason above that we both touched on. Seeing the interaction between the police and the community. It’s a unique circumstance in which the numbers are hugely disproportionate, and they have very unique struggles in terms of the town itself and all they’ve gone through. Granted, I don’t see it as a piece that will change someone’s opinion on the current climate, but I don’t think a show about anything would.

More than anything i hope it sparks more of a nationwide discussion about issues and things that need to happen. Although, I don’t hold out much hope.

On a side note, and this is open to yourself, or anyone. I just finished FTO training, so will be taking out new officers who come to our office after graduating the academy, and training them to see if they make it off the field training phase. I plan on having a variety of discussions across topics since we’ll have time to kill in the car while hunting those ticket quotas ;) if there’s a perspective or topic that you think would be good to broach, or something you would like to hear a new officers perspective and thoughts on, let me know. This is probably a little far out of left field, but I’m open to hearing suggestions, in PM or otherwise :)
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This is a great idea, thanks!
I'm currently snowed under with work, moving house and potentially moving jobs :lol: but i'll make a note to come back to you on this when I have more time in the next week or so.
 
vi1lain said:
This is a great idea, thanks!
I'm currently snowed under with work, moving house and potentially moving jobs :lol: but i'll make a note to come back to you on this when I have more time in the next week or so.
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No rush, it’ll be a few weeks before i get anyone. Congrats on the new house and job!
 
Rob said:
Not sure if it's the right thread, but just came across this:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/30/...ly-excused-of-murder-released-trnd/index.html

It's the story about Richard Philips who's spent 45 years wrongfully in prison. What's almost as staggering is that already in 2010 his co-defendant told a parole board that he had lied when he was arrested and that Philips was innocent. Despite this knowledge it took four years until someone tipped off the Innocense Clinic and after that four more years before Philips was finally acquitted. Now that he's free he can potentially get a maximum of 2.250.000 usd in reparations.

Imagine spending 45 years in prison for something that you didn't do and learning that a parole board didn't act on it when they heard of your innocense eight years ago. And that spending 45 years in prison is only worth 2.250.00 usd.
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Horrible he lost most of his life for wrongful conviction but $2.25M is certainly not a bad amount to receive based on the law, which equates to 50K per year. He should be able to live the remainder of his life without worry with that amount of loot, assuming he doesn't spend it all quickly. Course it would be quite shitty of the Fed tax him on it.
 
MrMarcello said:
Horrible he lost most of his life for wrongful conviction but $2.25M is certainly not a bad amount to receive based on the law, which equates to 50K per year. He should be able to live the remainder of his life without worry with that amount of loot, assuming he doesn't spend it all quickly. Course it would be quite shitty of the Fed tax him on it.
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You think so?

If he were to make 50.000 a year for all those years, taking out 30% in taxes, that would make his effective compensation for 40 years in jail 850.000. I realize that he'll live comfortably for the rest of his life, but in my world spending your entire adult life in wrongfully in prison should be worth more than that.

Don't know of any cases from other countries, so I don't have anything to compare with, though.
 
This is sort of Cop related, emergency services anyway.


Texas emergency operator jailed for 911 call hang ups

A former 911 operator in Houston, Texas has been found guilty of hanging up on emergency calls. Crenshanda Williams, 44, was sentenced to 10 days in jail and 18 months of probation for interfering with emergency telephone calls.

The Harris County district attorney's office said Ms Williams systematically hung up on emergency reports. Calls she terminated included reports of robberies, speeding vehicles, and murders, records showed.

Prosecutors said Ms Williams had worked as a 911 operator for 18 months, ending in 2016.

The district attorney's office said the recording system kept a report of whether it was the caller or the operator who disconnected the call. It showed that thousands of calls shorter than 20 seconds were attributed to her hanging up, the court heard.

Ms Williams hung up because at those times she did not want to talk to anyone, she told investigators.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43822504
 
https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesm...y-assassinated-abF1c-eLik-1bIWr5jy5ow/?full=1

DEPUTIES AMBUSHED BY GUNMAN

Trenton, Florida - At approximately 3:00 PM this afternoon, two Gilchrist County Deputy Sheriffs were shot and killed in the Ace China restaurant in downtown Trenton, after a suspect walked up to the business and shot both deputies through the window. As fellow deputies responded to the scene, they found the shooter deceased outside the business, and both Deputy Sheriffs where they died of their wounds.

At this point, it remains an active criminal investigation with no apparent motive or indications as to why this tragedy occurred.

Our thoughts and prayers are with these brave deputies’ families, friends, colleagues at Gilchrist County Sheriff's Office, and the community they selflessly served.
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Skizzo said:
Anyone been watching “Flint Town” on Netflix?
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Started to and enjoyed it at first but it quickly began to annoy me when the dickhead new chief arrived and it became a showcase of everything wrong with policing in America.

vi1lain said:
It’s pretty one dimensional.
It gave a brief history of flint, and I liked the parts where the residents would be speaking at town halls and such.

Outside of that?
It centres mostly on the police community, the two love birds, the mother and son duo, the new police chief etc.
I kinda have a feeling it’ll focus on how militarised the police force gets, and I don’t need to see that.

I don’t really see what it’s going to do to benefit me or give me any other perspective.

But if you can tell me otherwise, I’m open to watching it again.
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Yep, right down to spray painting their new humvee black and riding in the back of it with automatic weapons, then strolling around neighborhoods with their assault rifles like they were patrolling a war zone.

fecking disgusting.
 
I think that given recent events, it's perfectly reasonable for the police to demand for protesters to remove their masks. Without further information, while the photos feel like they are bad, based on what is in this thread I cannot say the police are doing anything wrong.

The last thing anyone needs is for anonymous arseholes to be smashing property and committing assaults without fear of legal repercussions. Stick to the peaceful protests and, where appropriate, sharing pictures of the white supremacists so the community know who they are and can make decisions about whether to associate with them.
 
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