Cop in America doing a bad job, again

4bars said:
Riots and violence is what it has more likeliness to succeed. Peaceful protests accomplishes close to nothing and disrupts nothing
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A lot of people who say “riots and violence under no circumstances” fail to realise that once successful things that start off as riots and violence end up being remembered as “revolutions”.

The French Revolution. The forming of the USA, ending South African Apartheid, to name just a few.

I am not advocating anything. But just pointing out to those people that the modern world and most progressive things were formed off of the back of riots and violence.
 
bosskeano said:
saw something on twitter today from a black journalist that caught my attention...

he basically said if you took the mug shots and just put the title of the article 5 black men arrested and charged with murder of another black man.....most people wouldn't blink an eye simply b/c that has been common place in certain cities and communities in america.

but you take that same article and put them in police uniforms and it absolutely blows up and turns people into groups that want to protest and riot. Was that b/c police are held to a different standard whether black or white? is it a pre-programming reaction that people have now?
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I didn’t think your posts in this thread could get any dumber.

Well done I guess.
 
matherto said:
A toxic culture prone to violence, thoroughly desensitized and jaded and lacking any semblence of empathy, it's not just their unit, it's a vast swathe of the population of the United States. Not everyone by any measure but a big slice unfortunately.

As others have aluded to, police in America were originally slave hunters. Then they became legitimate when slavery was abolished but never got rid of the mentality.

Police in any country have their fair share of bullies who never left the playground and power trips to the max because of the authority. Add in guns everywhere and media messaging that criminals are everywhere so you need guns everywhere and everyone is terrified, suspicious and completely fecked in the head. Not a good thing if you're a police officer having to suspect everyone is gonna kill you, not a good thing if you're stopped and you suspect the police officers are gonna kill you either.
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Never got rid of that mentality is a bit of horseshit considering that not even the grandfathers of current police officers were yet born before the slavery was abolished. It is just ‘critical’ race theory bullshit.

Massive amount of guns in hands of civilians making police officers more at risk, consequently building a system that allows police officers to get away with murder, and a very short training. The protection police officers get probably attracts some of the scum to get there in the first place, and probably radicalizes some others. But hard to believe that it is cause you know, 200 years ago, it was an institution (partially) devoted to catching slaves who escaped.
 
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bosskeano said:
saw something on twitter today from a black journalist that caught my attention...

he basically said if you took the mug shots and just put the title of the article 5 black men arrested and charged with murder of another black man.....most people wouldn't blink an eye simply b/c that has been common place in certain cities and communities in america.

but you take that same article and put them in police uniforms and it absolutely blows up and turns people into groups that want to protest and riot. Was that b/c police are held to a different standard whether black or white? is it a pre-programming reaction that people have now?
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How should police not be held to a higher standard ffs?
 
This thread has too many terrible posts to quote them all.

It's like a game of top trumps; all you're left to do is sit back and marvel, I guess.
 
Revan said:
Never got rid of that mentality is a bit of horseshit considering that not even the grandfathers of current police officers were yet born before the slavery was abolished. It is just ‘critical’ race theory bullshit.

Massive amount of guns in hands of civilians making police officers more at risk, consequently building a system that allows police officers to get away with murder, and a very short training. The protection police officers get probably attracts some of the scum to get there in the first place, and probably radicalizes some others. But hard to believe that it is cause you know, 200 years ago, it was an institution (partially) devoted to catching slaves who escaped.
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I think this hits the nail on the head. They don't seem to have any proper training to fall back on when the adrenaline hits. In my days a police officer I always had guidance/training for almost any situation, no matter how much adrenaline I had in my body I always had my training to fall back on. (2 years of training here in Serbia + 1 supervised by a veteran)

Many of the videos I've seen with US police officers they put themselves and others in situations that would be a big NO, NO from what I've learned. And I don't only refer to their use of violence. I've watched the show cops like many others and it's clear that they are poorly trained/prepared.
 
bosskeano said:
saw something on twitter today from a black journalist that caught my attention...

he basically said if you took the mug shots and just put the title of the article 5 black men arrested and charged with murder of another black man.....most people wouldn't blink an eye simply b/c that has been common place in certain cities and communities in america.

but you take that same article and put them in police uniforms and it absolutely blows up and turns people into groups that want to protest and riot. Was that b/c police are held to a different standard whether black or white? is it a pre-programming reaction that people have now?
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Who was the journalist?
 
TheLiverBird said:
In the positions of power these Police animals were in (officers don’t apply to these feral beings in particular), they certainly deserve to be behind bars for the rest of their natural life.

Ideally a Supermax, the ones where the cells are tiny concrete, windowless and dull, and they are in them 23 hours a day, let out only too a court yard where the sky is covered and they quite literally never see the light of day ever again. Until Their brains are mush.

the footage is quite undeniable, they literally used their power from the law, pulled a compliant guy from his car and beat him to a pulp until he breathed no more. Supermax please
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You'd expect they'd have a terrible time in prison once word gets around that they used to be Cops. They're done for.
 
bosskeano said:
saw something on twitter today from a black journalist that caught my attention...

he basically said if you took the mug shots and just put the title of the article 5 black men arrested and charged with murder of another black man.....most people wouldn't blink an eye simply b/c that has been common place in certain cities and communities in america.

but you take that same article and put them in police uniforms and it absolutely blows up and turns people into groups that want to protest and riot. Was that b/c police are held to a different standard whether black or white? is it a pre-programming reaction that people have now?
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Police wont ever be as effective as they could be if the people and communities (that they serve) don't trust them. That's why Police have to be held to a higher standard in general.
 
It says a lot about the American police system and the level of protection they give themselves, that even in this situation I think the only reason they got done so quickly was because they couldn't control the CCTV video. That part is just clear murder, which can not be hidden. The man is defenceless and out of it, yet is still kicked in the head and held up to be hit. If it was just the blurry body cams of this part, I wouldn't have put it past them to just sweep it under the rug.

From how they talked about it after, and the total lack of reaction as other officers arrived and saw them/heard them talking about it, it is clearly something that this police department has done before. Whether the previous victims survived or the evidence wasn't there unlike this case, its clear that the behaviour is normal for them.
 
Dargonk said:
It says a lot about the American police system and the level of protection they give themselves, that even in this situation I think the only reason they got done so quickly was because they couldn't control the CCTV video. That part is just clear murder, which can not be hidden. The man is defenceless and out of it, yet is still kicked in the head and held up to be hit. If it was just the blurry body cams of this part, I wouldn't have put it past them to just sweep it under the rug.

From how they talked about it after, and the total lack of reaction as other officers arrived and saw them/heard them talking about it, it is clearly something that this police department has done before. Whether the previous victims survived or the evidence wasn't there unlike this case, its clear that the behaviour is normal for them.
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Qualified immunity also means the family can't go after the individual cops civilly for any amount. Get rid of that, we will see toxic policing abate significantly.
 
calodo2003 said:
Qualified immunity also means the family can't go after the individual cops civilly for any amount. Get rid of that, we will see toxic policing abate significantly.
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Most cops won't have anything worth taking in a civil case. Better is to take from department pension funds and perhaps personal retirement accounts then we'd see sweeping changes probably.
 
Rado_N said:
I didn’t think your posts in this thread could get any dumber.

Well done I guess.
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that wasn't my words or had anything to do with me....it came from a black journalist that i saw on twitter talking about the murder. I'm going to see if i can find the guy on twitter again because I'd never heard of him.
 
MrMarcello said:
Most cops won't have anything worth taking in a civil case. Better is to take from department pension funds and perhaps personal retirement accounts then we'd see sweeping changes probably.
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Depends on the area. Loads here in California end up making $150-250k a year when OT is factored in, so they’re doing much better than they should. But yes, being able to access pension funds would be the ideal scenario.
 
Loosening the required qualifications however means that the department is ultimately getting “less desirable” job candidates, Mike Alcazar, an adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a retired NYPD detective, told The Post.

“They’re desperate. They want police officers,” Alcazar said. “They’re going through it, they check off some boxes, saying, ‘Ok, they’re good enough, get them on.”

The department showed signs of struggle with recruiting new police officers, offering $15,000 signing bonuses in 2021 and 2022, Fox 13 reported.
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https://nypost.com/2023/01/28/memph...-murder-hired-after-pd-relaxed-job-standards/
 
MrMarcello said:
Most cops won't have anything worth taking in a civil case. Better is to take from department pension funds and perhaps personal retirement accounts then we'd see sweeping changes probably.
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They have houses, cars, boats, RV's like other people, not enough to compensate (not that anything could) but they know they can't be touched with qualified immunity, if they didn't have that some of these events wouldn't happen
 
forevrared said:
Depends on the area. Loads here in California end up making $150-250k a year when OT is factored in, so they’re doing much better than they should. But yes, being able to access pension funds would be the ideal scenario.
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Problem with pension funds is that it would affect all cops not just the bad ones, and the bad ones are a small minority in comparison to the number of good ones
 
forevrared said:
Depends on the area. Loads here in California end up making $150-250k a year when OT is factored in, so they’re doing much better than they should. But yes, being able to access pension funds would be the ideal scenario.
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Where'd you get those figures from? That seems far far too high for a basic uniform member, even when you do factor in OT. Around $70k is a much more accurate figure.

Also, do you actually know what Police deal with day to day? Would you do it for that kind of money?
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Where'd you get those figures from? That seems far far too high for a basic uniform member, even when you do factor in OT. Around $70k is a much more accurate figure.

Also, do you actually know what Police deal with day to day? Would you do it for that kind of money?
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https://blog.transparentcalifornia.com/2020/11/16/oakland-cops-640000-pay-package-highest-ever/

This report is a bit dated at this point, but all public employee salaries and total compensation are available online. It was the same story in Los Angeles when I lived there. Base salaries (which I believe start in the six figures in San Francisco, for example) rarely tell the entire story.

Red in STL said:
Problem with pension funds is that it would affect all cops not just the bad ones, and the bad ones are a small minority in comparison to the number of good ones
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That’s sort of the point - if the bad eggs are accountable to the “good eggs”, then there’s a much better chance it works as intended and the bad behavior is stomped out from within. When the bad eggs know no one will speak out against them and the union will defend them in absolutely any circumstance, there’s very little incentive to do right. A little self-policing of bad behavior, if you will.
 
forevrared said:
https://blog.transparentcalifornia.com/2020/11/16/oakland-cops-640000-pay-package-highest-ever/

This report is a bit dated at this point, but all public employee salaries and total compensation are available online. It was the same story in Los Angeles when I lived there. Base salaries (which I believe start in the six figures in San Francisco, for example) rarely tell the entire story.



That’s sort of the point - if the bad eggs are accountable to the “good eggs”, then there’s a much better chance it works as intended and the bad behavior is stomped out from within. When the bad eggs know no one will speak out against them and the union will defend them in absolutely any circumstance, there’s very little incentive to do right. A little self-policing of bad behavior, if you will.
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In theory you're right, but in practice, by the time the good cops find out it's too late
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Where'd you get those figures from? That seems far far too high for a basic uniform member, even when you do factor in OT. Around $70k is a much more accurate figure.

Also, do you actually know what Police deal with day to day? Would you do it for that kind of money?
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In California it is pretty accurate. 70k was the starting pay over 10 years ago for new recruits. Top step pay in many departments is 100-140k, and even higher for specialized assignments like SWAT, K9, field training officers, motors. Then when you add in OT, you’re looking at 150-200k+.
 
choiboyx012 said:
In California it is pretty accurate. 70k was the starting pay over 10 years ago for new recruits. Top step pay in many departments is 100-140k, and even higher for specialized assignments like SWAT, K9, field training officers, motors. Then when you add in OT, you’re looking at 150-200k+.
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California is a pretty expensive place to live so I' think these are probably pretty accurate
 
choiboyx012 said:
In California it is pretty accurate. 70k was the starting pay over 10 years ago for new recruits. Top step pay in many departments is 100-140k, and even higher for specialized assignments like SWAT, K9, field training officers, motors. Then when you add in OT, you’re looking at 150-200k+.
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150-200k still isn't enough given that the average cost of a home in LA is 950k. So either most people are renting or they got into a house a decade ago when great recession recovery prices were very low.
 
Raoul said:
150-200k still isn't enough given that the average cost of a home in LA is 950k. So either most people are renting or they got into a house a decade ago when great recession recovery prices were very low.
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True. Most that are buying a home are doing so far away in riverside and San Bernardino counties. Those that have retired recently, or are planning to in the next couple years, are mostly moving out of California where their bloated pensions can allow them to live like kings in another state.
 
Raoul said:
150-200k still isn't enough given that the average cost of a home in LA is 950k. So either most people are renting or they got into a house a decade ago when great recession recovery prices were very low.
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Next to none of them live in the city they police anyway, which is a big part of the overall problem.

In LA there was a disproportionate part of the LAPD that lived in Santa Clarita, Palmdale, Victorville, etc. In those places that level of pay goes about as far as you’d expect it to in most parts of the country. Still LA county, but not in LAPD jurisdiction.

As an officer in this situation, you’re paid a rate based on the cost of living in the city you work in, but you take all those funds outside the city and pay taxes elsewhere and have no reason to be invested in the city you police because you don’t live there.
 
forevrared said:
Next to none of them live in the city they police anyway, which is a big part of the overall problem.

In LA there was a disproportionate part of the LAPD that lived in Santa Clarita, Palmdale, Victorville, etc. In those places that level of pay goes about as far as you’d expect it to in most parts of the country. Still LA county, but not in LAPD jurisdiction.

As an officer in this situation, you’re paid a rate based on the cost of living in the city you work in, but you take all those funds outside the city and pay taxes elsewhere and have no reason to be invested in the city you police because you don’t live there.
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My point is that wages are outpaced by rises in the cost of living, so even if someone is paid what appears to be a good salary in most other parts of the country, its not enough in LA - and by LA, I mean Inland Empire to Ventura to OC. An average home in Riverside starts at over 600k, which would be steep for any cop. This isn't a law enforcement issue, its a cost of living one that applies to everyone in and around LA, SF, OC and elsewhere.
 
choiboyx012 said:
In California it is pretty accurate. 70k was the starting pay over 10 years ago for new recruits. Top step pay in many departments is 100-140k, and even higher for specialized assignments like SWAT, K9, field training officers, motors. Then when you add in OT, you’re looking at 150-200k+.
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How long do you need to be in the job to qualify for those higher rates? I know in Victoria it takes ten years (or thirteen?) to qualify for the top band of payment.

Also, that isn't a universal figure across America is it? It seems that the US has a convoluted payment system that varies across states and districts.
 
forevrared said:
Next to none of them live in the city they police anyway, which is a big part of the overall problem.

In LA there was a disproportionate part of the LAPD that lived in Santa Clarita, Palmdale, Victorville, etc. In those places that level of pay goes about as far as you’d expect it to in most parts of the country. Still LA county, but not in LAPD jurisdiction.

As an officer in this situation, you’re paid a rate based on the cost of living in the city you work in, but you take all those funds outside the city and pay taxes elsewhere and have no reason to be invested in the city you police because you don’t live there.
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Policing where you live is fraught with danger.

Imagine going about your daily business and running into someone you've dealt with in a work capacity. Or worse yet, someone spotting you without you realising it.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
How long do you need to be in the job to qualify for those higher rates? I know in Victoria it takes ten years (or thirteen?) to qualify for the top band of payment.

Also, that isn't a universal figure across America is it? It seems that the US has a convoluted payment system that varies across states and districts.
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Varies by department but average about 5-7 years for top step pay. The figures i quoted are just for California, which is known to be the highest paying.
 
Dargonk said:
It says a lot about the American police system and the level of protection they give themselves, that even in this situation I think the only reason they got done so quickly was because they couldn't control the CCTV video. That part is just clear murder, which can not be hidden. The man is defenceless and out of it, yet is still kicked in the head and held up to be hit. If it was just the blurry body cams of this part, I wouldn't have put it past them to just sweep it under the rug.

From how they talked about it after, and the total lack of reaction as other officers arrived and saw them/heard them talking about it, it is clearly something that this police department has done before. Whether the previous victims survived or the evidence wasn't there unlike this case, its clear that the behaviour is normal for them.
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To get back on topic. The sheer brutality aside, this was the most telling thing about the incident. They’re all on video, they all know they’re on video, and they still don’t care about how they’re conducting themselves. I just recently learned that this is one of their specialized crime-suppression units. It’s as if these gangland hoodstyle extrajudicial beatings are regular occurrences with them. That speaks volumes of the department as a whole if in 2023 this kind of behavior is unchecked up the chain of command. Most officers with bodycams would be scared to fart the wrong way, let alone talk the way they did during and after the beating.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Policing where you live is fraught with danger.

Imagine going about your daily business and running into someone you've dealt with in a work capacity. Or worse yet, someone spotting you without you realising it.
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Everyone else in society can easily imagine this because it’s the definition of being part of a community. It’s how we live our lives.
 
forevrared said:
Everyone else in society can easily imagine this because it’s the definition of being part of a community. It’s how we live our lives.
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What are you on about? What an ignorant comment.

Running into someone you have previously arrested or issued a fine to is not ideal. It's a needless risk.

I know of stories of people being recognised and then followed home without realising it. Only for their homes to be targeted later.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
What are you on about? What an ignorant comment.

Running into someone you have previously arrested or issued a fine to is not ideal. It's a needless risk.

I know of stories of people being recognised and then followed home without realising it. Only for their homes to be targeted later.
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Now imagine that fear that someone may try and harass or kill you while there’s nothing you can do and nowhere you can run is what you feel every time you see a police officer. That’s a reality for a large percentage of Americans. Plenty have not lived to tell the tale.

Yet you cry crocodile tears about even the implication that a cop is made to feel uncomfortable by living in even the same city. Give me a break.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
What are you on about? What an ignorant comment.

Running into someone you have previously arrested or issued a fine to is not ideal. It's a needless risk.

I know of stories of people being recognised and then followed home without realising it. Only for their homes to be targeted later.
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My sister got run over by someone she'd arrested so yeah definitely a danger. Attacked on two other occasions whilst out of uniform as well.
 
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