Cop in America doing a bad job, again

Jaap said:
All is good, pal.

We should really only start to criticize their work once we fully know every detail (we may never). Not beforehand.
Click to expand...

To be fair, you made a claim in this thread that is not fully verified information. You just read on a news website that the police said so, which we should know by now doesn't make it a fact. But I'm not holding that against you, because that's the human thing to do. We all make assumptions and take positions before all the information is out, it's impossible not to.
 
nimic said:
To be fair, you made a claim in this thread that is not fully verified information. You just read on a news website that the police said so, which we should know by now doesn't make it a fact. But I'm not holding that against you, because that's the human thing to do. We all make assumptions and take positions before all the information is out, it's impossible not to.
Click to expand...
That‘s correct, yes.

Should give this a few days before we fully know what went on.
 
Been watching the Aaron Dean trial (cop shot a woman in her home while investigating a reported open door), pretty convinced he wouldn't be found guilty but holy hell the defence closing argument was distasteful.

The victim did literally nothing wrong in the situation. That doesn't necessarily mean that her shooting was a crime because of mutual self defence, and justification being based on reasonable belief but the defence were arguing that she knew he was a cop and did it anyway! Wankers.

Wouldn't be surprised if that didn't piss a few jurors off, it did me and I wasn't convinced by the prosecution case that it was a crime based on what was presented at trial.
 
calodo2003 said:
Which cop is this? The child freezer?
Click to expand...

Nah. Fort Worth Texas, call from a neighbour reporting an open front door at 2am, police were dispatched.

They spot the open door so look around the house for signs of forced entry and while investigating the home owner spots them through a ground floor window and pointed a gun with a Lazer Aim at the officer. He drew his weapon while yelling show me your hands and shot .6 seconds later.

Homeowner was babysitting so her 8yo nephew and they were up playing video games and he witnessed the whole thing. Was apparently begging them not to arrest him. Horrendous situation.
 
It is infuriating.

By the way, is the use of handcuffs mandatory during an arrest in the US? As far as I know, they are used in many countries only in case you are aggressive towards the others or yourself. Can’t they just take someone to the police station without humiliating them?
 
Last edited:
Sigma said:
Even if she was refusing to comply, it doesn't warrant assault
Click to expand...

By refusing to comply you forced the other party ot escalate though.

If i was told to step out of the car and refuse, the cops would have no options than to force me to. Same if a person was asked to leave a plane. Refusing to leave would meant the officer needs to escalate to the point of physical contact.

It's not the system fault, the system is fine but if the officer are racist and intend to hurt you there's not much you can do.

What they need to do is fix the underlaying racism, otherwise whatever method they come up to would come to the same problem. Disobedience and escalations.
 
lonelyred said:
It is infuriating.

By the way, is the use of handcuffs mandatory during an arrest in the US? As far as I know, they are used in many countries only in case you are aggressive towards the others or yourself. Can’t they just take someone to the police station without humiliating them?
Click to expand...

It’s policy, yes.
 
Skizzo said:
It’s policy, yes.
Click to expand...


But why is it a policy? Looks unnecessary in so many cases. It sometimes feels there are arrests that even would not provoke "resistance" if the cuffs were not involved (I believe there are examples of some other countries showing that)

Also, when you say it's a policy, does it mean it's just a kind of customary/recommended practice or is it a regulated, mandatory procedure?

(Anyway, thanks for replying to my pretty old post.)
 
lonelyred said:
But why is it a policy? Looks unnecessary in so many cases. It sometimes feels there are arrests that even would not provoke "resistance" if the cuffs were not involved (I believe there are examples of some other countries showing that)

Also, when you say it's a policy, does it mean it's just a kind of customary/recommended practice or is it a regulated, mandatory procedure?

(Anyway, thanks for replying to my pretty old post.)
Click to expand...

most policies come into play because of prior incidents, some just become implemented. You never know how someone will react to being arrested, taken to jail etc, so everyone under arrest goes in handcuffs. If handcuffs spark a resistance in someone before they go on, that’s probably someone that would resist when they get to jail too…so I’d rather them be in handcuffs to avoid that issue arising. I also wouldn’t want to be driving someone to jail that is under arrest for whatever It may be, and sat in a car with them unrestrained. Lots of people are chill until they find out they’re about to go to jail, or until the reality sets in as we get there.

and by policy I mean anyone that’s arrested goes in handcuffs. If you’re old, injured, or visibly pregnant, the handcuffs can go in front, otherwise it’s behind the back.
 
Skizzo said:
most policies come into play because of prior incidents, some just become implemented. You never know how someone will react to being arrested, taken to jail etc, so everyone under arrest goes in handcuffs. If handcuffs spark a resistance in someone before they go on, that’s probably someone that would resist when they get to jail too…so I’d rather them be in handcuffs to avoid that issue arising. I also wouldn’t want to be driving someone to jail that is under arrest for whatever It may be, and sat in a car with them unrestrained. Lots of people are chill until they find out they’re about to go to jail, or until the reality sets in as we get there.

and by policy I mean anyone that’s arrested goes in handcuffs. If you’re old, injured, or visibly pregnant, the handcuffs can go in front, otherwise it’s behind the back.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the explanation, Skizzo. Still I don’t get if this policy is part of a mandatory procedure, regulated by the law or any kind of written rules or just a usual, probably recommended and obviously widespread practice.
 
Last edited:
lonelyred said:
Thank you for the explanation, Skizzo. Still I don’t get if this policy is part of a mandatory procedure, regulated by the law or any kind of written rules or just a usual, probably recommended and obviously understandable practice.
Click to expand...

I don’t believe it’s written in to any kind of law, but each department will have their own policy. It’s standard procedure to place someone in handcuffs if they’re under arrest, but each departments policy may differ slightly if they’re allowed to be handcuffed to the front, or how the hands will be placed, etc etc.
 
Skizzo said:
most policies come into play because of prior incidents, some just become implemented. You never know how someone will react to being arrested, taken to jail etc, so everyone under arrest goes in handcuffs. If handcuffs spark a resistance in someone before they go on, that’s probably someone that would resist when they get to jail too…so I’d rather them be in handcuffs to avoid that issue arising. I also wouldn’t want to be driving someone to jail that is under arrest for whatever It may be, and sat in a car with them unrestrained. Lots of people are chill until they find out they’re about to go to jail, or until the reality sets in as we get there.

and by policy I mean anyone that’s arrested goes in handcuffs. If you’re old, injured, or visibly pregnant, the handcuffs can go in front, otherwise it’s behind the back.
Click to expand...

Don’t like that policy very much.

Applying cuffs is a use of force and I don’t think things like that should made policy as it lets officers hide behind it.

Every use of force should always require justification by the individual.
 
TheReligion said:
Don’t like that policy very much.

Applying cuffs is a use of force and I don’t think things like that should made policy as it lets officers hide behind it.

Every use of force should always require justification by the individual.
Click to expand...

Well once you bleed over into excessive force, that’s different, and “use of force” doesn’t necessarily mean there’s any pain compliance and such included. Officer presence and “verbal judo” are also considered uses of force. There’s case law and penal code that covers handcuffing in regards to someone under arrest.
 
Skizzo said:
Well once you bleed over into excessive force, that’s different, and “use of force” doesn’t necessarily mean there’s any pain compliance and such included. Officer presence and “verbal judo” are also considered uses of force. There’s case law and penal code that covers handcuffing in regards to someone under arrest.
Click to expand...

It’s very different here in it UK in terms of that.

There’s no handcuffing policy and you’d be required to give justification for doing so.

I simply feel the moment you start trying to make certain things mandatory is the moment officers stop thinking for themselves. That said policy can be broken as people often forget. I certainly wouldn’t be handcuffing a frail elderly person or a young child.
 
lonelyred said:
It is infuriating.

By the way, is the use of handcuffs mandatory during an arrest in the US? As far as I know, they are used in many countries only in case you are aggressive towards the others or yourself. Can’t they just take someone to the police station without humiliating them?
Click to expand...

All it takes is one person that's arrested to be hiding something, or to kick-off once they're back at the Station, for it to ruin it for everyone.
 
Are there any officers in here?

I know of a Senior Sergeant (a Station Commander) from Melbourne that did a tour of the US, in relation to mental health among other things. He spoke with the first responder to one of the large school shootings for example.

Anyway he did a ride along in Arizona with a female officer, who came out to the vehicle with two guns (I believe her own). That day they intercepted 13 vehicles, 10 of which were at gunpoint (due to firearms warnings, etc).

That is simply unheard of here in Australia, you'd be lucky to draw your firearm that many times in your entire career, and you'd never have to do it for a vehicle intercept.

You'd never work by yourself either, you'd always be working with an offsider.

The US is a completely different world.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Are there any officers in here?

I know of a Senior Sergeant (a Station Commander) from Melbourne that did a tour of the US, in relation to mental health among other things. He spoke with the first responder to one of the large school shootings for example.

Anyway he did a ride along in Arizona with a female officer, who came out to the vehicle with two guns (I believe her own). That day they intercepted 13 vehicles, 10 of which were at gunpoint (due to firearms warnings, etc).

That is simply unheard of here in Australia, you'd be lucky to draw your firearm that many times in your entire career, and you'd never have to do it for a vehicle intercept.

You'd never work by yourself either, you'd always be working with an offsider.

The US is a completely different world.
Click to expand...

I’ve mentioned it before but the way they Police in the States is a direct result of the gun culture in the country.

I genuinely think if they addressed that then they’d see positive change within policing.
 
TheReligion said:
I’ve mentioned it before but the way they Police in the States is a direct result of the gun culture in the country.

I genuinely think if they addressed that then they’d see positive change within policing.
Click to expand...

Absolutely no doubt about it.
 
TheReligion said:
I’ve mentioned it before but the way they Police in the States is a direct result of the gun culture in the country.

I genuinely think if they addressed that then they’d see positive change within policing.
Click to expand...
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/riverside-county-sheriffs-deputy-shot-in-jurupa-valley/amp/
Yup. Got a very close friend that works at Riverside sheriff’s dept and this hit close to home. This scumbag shot and killed a motor officer (just recently graduated motor school) today on a traffic stop. After causing a pursuit he was shot and killed. Access to guns is the biggest problem imo.
 
berbatrick said:
Number of Philly cops out injured drops 31% after Inquirer investigation uncovers abuse
Doctors picked by the police union had diagnosed several hundred officers as being so injured that they couldn’t even testify in court.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/phila...-claims-heart-lung-abuse-reform-20221220.html
Click to expand...
This is a problem in many departments including mine. It’s hard to enforce because of the medical HIPAA laws. Mix that with the physical nature of the job, and the labor laws in place, and you have an environment where abuse of workers comp is relatively easy to carry out.
 
choiboyx012 said:
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/riverside-county-sheriffs-deputy-shot-in-jurupa-valley/amp/
Yup. Got a very close friend that works at Riverside sheriff’s dept and this hit close to home. This scumbag shot and killed a motor officer (just recently graduated motor school) today on a traffic stop. After causing a pursuit he was shot and killed. Access to guns is the biggest problem imo.
Click to expand...
100% agree. It’s why I have never understood why your profession has never been in the vanguard of the fight for gun control.
 
Skizzo said:
most policies come into play because of prior incidents, some just become implemented. You never know how someone will react to being arrested, taken to jail etc, so everyone under arrest goes in handcuffs. If handcuffs spark a resistance in someone before they go on, that’s probably someone that would resist when they get to jail too…so I’d rather them be in handcuffs to avoid that issue arising. I also wouldn’t want to be driving someone to jail that is under arrest for whatever It may be, and sat in a car with them unrestrained. Lots of people are chill until they find out they’re about to go to jail, or until the reality sets in as we get there.

and by policy I mean anyone that’s arrested goes in handcuffs. If you’re old, injured, or visibly pregnant, the handcuffs can go in front, otherwise it’s behind the back.
Click to expand...

I understand (even id i dont like it) to be handcuffed just in case and if there is reasonable suspition of a crime at a office discretion but Isnt being handcuffed in a vehicle dangerous? Wasnt a guy killed or paralized because he was handcuffed and on a sharp break from the van he fell knocked his head breaking his neck as he couldnt out his hands in front to protect himself?
 
4bars said:
I understand (even id i dont like it) to be handcuffed just in case and if there is reasonable suspition of a crime at a office discretion but Isnt being handcuffed in a vehicle dangerous? Wasnt a guy killed or paralized because he was handcuffed and on a sharp break from the van he fell knocked his head breaking his neck as he couldnt out his hands in front to protect himself?
Click to expand...

For us, we transport to jail in the regular patrol vehicle (charger, tahoe, or explorer) and they’ll usually be placed in the right rear seat (if the vehicle is equipped with a cage) and then they have their seatbelt put on to avoid issues like that. If I remember correctly, there were other issues with that incident you mentioned…mainly no seatbelts, and then horrendous medical care (or lack of) by placing him on the floor and leaving him in the cell when he was already complaining of being unable to move.
 
I believe there may be a large exodus occurring with Officers leaving the job over in the US. There have also been similar issues here in Australia, recruitment can't keep up with those leaving.

Why would you want to do that job over in the US? Dangerous, poorly trained, inadequately equipped, the pay is average, it seems that the majority of the population has some level of distrust to outright hatred, thanks to the actions of a (inexcusable) minority.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.