Cop in America doing a bad job, again

Just seen makiyah vid. I see nothing wrong with the cops action.

Hell it was so fast even i dont know what happened. The reaction speed is very fast i must say.

Unless i really slow down the vid and go frame by frame i doubt i can fathom what happens in a single viewing without prior knowledge of the case.
 
Carolina Red said:
That said, girl’s arm was literally in a stabbing motion headed towards the upper torso of another person when she was shot.
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Absolutely no chance a POC would have been able to get that close to a LEO brandishing a knife like that & acting was such. None.
 
calodo2003 said:
Absolutely no chance a POC would have been able to get that close to a LEO brandishing a knife like that & acting was such. None.
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Agreed, but like I said...
Carolina Red said:
I mean, if the tweet was making the case that a black person doing the exact same thing would have probably been shot, then I can see that and think it would have a point... but it’s drawing comparison to a completely different set of circumstances.
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VorZakone said:
American police is stronger than many nations' militaries. :lol:
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But I doubt american citizens are mentally stronger than 3rd world country guerilla independence fighter.

Vietnam korean afghanistan they made a fierce fighter due to their culture. I doubt the obese tacticool dudes would do the job when the push comes to the shove.

But off course. Having that much firepower you dont need much.
 
calodo2003 said:
Not that completely different, though.
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I mean...
Untitled-design---2021-04-20T205749.599.jpg


If you’re that girl in pink, it’s a little different.
 
Shamana said:
Was his knife a split second away from landing in a girl neck?

Ez4is1ZWQAAaRgk
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I’m not saying the cop was in the wrong in the shooting, there was obviously a dangerous situation & a civilian was in imminent danger.


But if you think there’s any chance a knife-armed POC gets within striking distance of a cop like that guy did, you’re having a laugh. Kenosha’s shooting showed us that not more than a year ago.
 
calodo2003 said:
But if you think there’s any chance a knife-armed POC gets within striking distance of a cop like that guy did, you’re having a laugh. Kenosha’s shooting showed us that not more than a year ago.
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Right, but the cop was technically going off protocol by allowing an armed and aggressive man get within striking distance. If the guy had been shot, as it happens in most other similar incidents, no one would blame the cop.

Wasn't there a video only couple of months back with a woman cop confronting a white man armed with a knife in car park, where she tried to de-escalate... but when he approached the cop too closely he got shot? This one...


I don't think taking the exception here and trying to make an example of it is a good idea. Setting the expectation that people should be able to brandish knives and threateningly approach cops and other civvies without being incapacitated some way or another, isn't the right way to go about this imo.
 
MadMike said:
Right, but the cop was technically going off protocol by allowing an armed and aggressive man get within striking distance. If the guy had been shot, as it happens in most other similar incidents, no one would blame the cop.

Wasn't there a video only couple of months back with a woman cop confronting a white man armed with a knife in car park, where she tried to de-escalate... but when he approached the cop too closely he got shot? This one...


I don't think taking the exception here and trying to make an example of it is a good idea. Setting the expectation that people should be able to brandish knives and threateningly approach cops and other civvies without being incapacitated some way or another, isn't the right way to go about this imo.
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Yep, agree. Inconsistencies abound & they’re not always due to race. I wouldn’t have blamed the cops in the video I posted if they had used any force at their disposal when that freak got within striking distance. It’s the inconsistencies & the lack of consistent, appropriately punitive oversight that can be problematic & corrosive in many people’s eyes. Once policy goalposts or parameters are established, they should not be moved either during or after an event.
 
calodo2003 said:
I’m not saying the cop was in the wrong in the shooting, there was obviously a dangerous situation & a civilian was in imminent danger.


But if you think there’s any chance a knife-armed POC gets within striking distance of a cop like that guy did, you’re having a laugh. Kenosha’s shooting showed us that not more than a year ago.
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In the Jacob Blake case, the police didn't know whether he was reaching for a knife or a gun. Police in the US are hypervigilant about suspects reaching for a firearm. Here is a case where a women arrested for cannabis possesion ends up pulling a gun from the front seat of the car and manages to shoot the police officer and gets shot herself in the process. In any case it's a good case study in why it's a good idea to legalize soft drugs. Edit apparently the owner of the car had multiple arrest warrents on him.

relevant footage starts at 2.45 min.

https://www.wvlt.tv/2021/03/15/grap...e-shootout-that-left-woman-dead-officer-hurt/
 
Shamana said:
In the Jacob Blake case, the police didn't know whether he was reaching for a knife or a gun. Police in the US are hypervigilant about suspects reaching for a firearm. Here is a case where a women arrested for cannabis possesion ends up pulling a gun from the front seat of the car and manages to shoot the police officer and gets shot herself in the process. In any case it's a good case study in why it's a good idea to legalize soft drugs.

relevant footage starts at 2.45 min.

https://www.wvlt.tv/2021/03/15/grap...e-shootout-that-left-woman-dead-officer-hurt/
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Hyper-vigilant could be an understatement. Yet when a perpetrator is actually brandishing a weapon or using a weapon like a vehicle, some policy shift seems to appear.

@MadMike said it very well - the inconsistencies are apparent. A little more objective goal post establishment & application would go a long way & would ameliorate some of the negative racial issues seen in policing. I wouldn’t have criticized the cops if they shot the nutter doing performance art tai chi with the knife, he was well within striking range of the cops. But the potential of there being a weapon in a vehicle warrants multiple rounds being shot into someone else? Inconsistent.

Agree on the soft drug crimes. That’s such a cottage industry for the judicial system though. We are seeing some common sense in that regard, thankfully.
 
calodo2003 said:
Hyper-vigilant could be an understatement. Yet when a perpetrator is actually brandishing a weapon or using a weapon like a vehicle, some policy shift seems to appear.

@MadMike said it very well - the inconsistencies are apparent. A little more objective goal post establishment & application would go a long way & would ameliorate some of the negative racial issues seen in policing. I wouldn’t have criticized the cops if they shot the nutter doing performance art tai chi with the knife, he was well within striking range of the cops. But the potential of there being a weapon in a vehicle warrants multiple rounds being shot into someone else? Inconsistent.

Agree on the soft drug crimes. That’s such a cottage industry for the judicial system though. We are seeing some common sense in that regard, thankfully.
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As far as I can see on the stats, there are roughly around 10 mil arrests yearly. I would personally guess that many of those features suspects wielding(of whatever colour) a knife without getting shot or killed, I would imagine that those bodycams(if they have bodycams) aren't released publically because it's not a news story that goes viral.
 
Shamana said:
As far as I can see on the stats, there are roughly around 10 mil arrests yearly. I would personally guess that many of those features suspects wielding(of whatever colour) a knife without getting shot or killed, I would imagine that those bodycams(if they have bodycams) aren't released publically because it's not a news story that goes viral.
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But there are inconsistencies. And, unfortunately, inconsistent policy applications in this line of work can have the ultimate negative consequence.

We can’t be applauding bank robbers for never robbing the vast majority of banks they pass by.
 
calodo2003 said:
But there are inconsistencies. And, unfortunately, inconsistent policy applications in this line of work can have the ultimate negative consequence.

We can’t be applauding bank robbers for never robbing the vast majority of banks they pass by.
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I think obviously it goes without saying that wrongdoing by the police should be weeded out as much as possible which I why think the current discussion has merit, but when I look at the data, I don't actually see huge inconsistencies. Obviously more white people are killed by the police since they are the majority, but black people are killed more pr. 100.000 however despite black people making up áround 14% of the total population, the statistics show that black criminals make up roughly around 50% of the crime including hard crime like murder which would make it more likely that the police engage with hardened criminals. I'm not trying to whitewash the police here, I'm just making an observation based on the raw data. I'm not trying to claim that there aren't cops in the US with a racial bias or just flat out racist.
 
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Shamana said:
I think obviously it goes without saying that wrongdoing by the police should be weeded out as much as possible which I think the current discussion has merit, but when I look at the data, I don't actually see huge inconsistencies. Obviously more white people are killed by the police since they are the majority, but black people are killed more pr. 100.000 however despite black people making up áround 14% of the total population, the statistics show that black criminals make up roughly around 50% of the crime including hard crime like murder which would make it more likely that the police engage with hardened criminals. I'm not trying to whitewash the police here, I'm just making an observation based on the raw data.
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Yet inconsistencies exist. And inconsistencies can result in the ultimate consequence with very little recourse.

Again, we can’t be absolving or ignoring inconsistencies simply because the vast majority of incidents seem proper policy applications.

Why care at all then? Why punish a criminal when the vast majority of their living days contained no criminal actions?

That’s bizarre.
 
calodo2003 said:
Yet inconsistencies exist. And inconsistencies can result in the ultimate consequence with very little recourse.

Again, we can’t be absolving or ignoring inconsistencies simply because the vast majority of incidents seem proper policy applications.

Why care at all then? Why punish a criminal when the vast majority of their living days contained no criminal actions?

That’s bizarre.
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And I think real inconsistencies should be adressed. I just don't think it's best explained by cherry picking a few videos here and there. A white man in his 20's armed with his knife was shot dead a week ago. Another white man armed with a pole was shot dead more recently. I think the best way to look at it is simply at the data(which may not perfect, but the best we got), but I do actually think in this controversial cases body cams are a gem, because they give us the best possible recording of the police officers actions.

If the perfect tranquilzer gun could be developed I think that would be perfect, but I doubt that's going to happen.
 
Shamana said:
Was his knife a split second away from landing in a girl neck?

Ez4is1ZWQAAaRgk
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Interesting how despite both girls being the same shade of black, the victim is illustrated as being white or at least much paler. Notice also how apparently the 16 year old girl suddenly gets much blacker in the scene where she's imagined as stabbing the other girl.
 
Shamana said:
And I think real inconsistencies should be adressed. I just don't think it's best explained by cherry picking a few videos here and there. A white man in his 20's armed with his knife was shot dead a week ago. Another white man armed with a pole was shot dead more recently. I think the best way to look at it is simply at the data(which may not perfect, but the best we got), but I do actually think in this controversial cases body cams are a gem, because they give us the best possible recording of the police officers actions.
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Agree on the body cams.

But not on the percentage being used. How would we ever discuss inconsistencies when they could just be argued away as statistic anomalies or the like?

What defines a ‘real’ inconsistency?
 
Kentonio said:
Interesting how despite both girls being the same shade of black, the victim is illustrated as being white or at least much paler. Notice also how apparently the 16 year old girl suddenly gets much blacker in the scene where she's imagined as stabbing the other girl.
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The girl in pink is probably illustrated as pink, because she wore pink. But perhaps the illustrator is simply racist.
 
calodo2003 said:
Agree on the body cams.

But not on the percentage being used. How would we ever discuss inconsistencies when they could just be argued away as statistic anomalies or the like?

What defines a ‘real’ inconsistency?
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I don't know I'm not an expert. I read though that according to the stats black and latino people are more likely to roughed up by the police, so there is an inconsistency right there. And then there is stuff like racial profiling and stuff like that. Skizzo is far more qualifed on this than any us probably.
 
Shamana said:
I don't know I'm not an expert. I read though that according to the stats black and latino people are more likely to roughed up by the police, so there is an inconsistency right there. And then there is stuff like racial profiling and stuff like that. Skizzo is far more qualifed on this than any us probably.
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Nor am I.

Seems you are saying that due to the vast majority of incidents being done ‘by the book,’ any inconsistent policy applications should be devalued in importance or dismissed due to their being a statistical anomaly.

It’s the inconsistencies that drive this issue, no matter how few they are. And the inconsistency lies outside just racial animus or bias.
 
calodo2003 said:
Nor am I.

Seems you are saying that due to the vast majority of incidents being done ‘by the book,’ any inconsistent policy applications should be devalued in importance or dismissed due to their being a statistical anomaly.

It’s the inconsistencies that drive this issue, no matter how few they are. And the inconsistency lies outside just racial animus or bias.
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I don't think inconsistencies should be devalued, I just think they should be proven as facts in the first place and I think some of that may be hard. Also it's probably pretty much impossible that I think around 800.000 police officers can act consistently the same way. And then you gotta make sure to introduce legizlation that can make sure the police officers are punished justly when they are clearly in the wrong.
 
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Shamana said:
I don't think inconsistencies should be devalued, I just think they should be proven as facts in the first place and I think some of that may be hard in the first place. Also it's probably pretty much impossible that I think around 800.000 police officers can act consistently the same way. And then you gotta make sure to introduce legizlation that can make sure the police officers are punished justly when they are clear in the wrong.
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Yep.

In your researching this issue, did you come across ‘qualified immunity?’
 
Shamana said:
It's a long time ago, so I probably already forgot about it. But yeah I heard it mentioned.
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That perhaps is the biggest protector / absolver of policing inconsistency.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity

That’s just for civil lawsuits. It’s extremely difficult to criminally try police officers. A tweak in qualified immunity’s scope would go a long way in eliminating inconsistencies in policing in many people’s eyes as well as keep a constant focus on the training that police receive.
 
calodo2003 said:
That perhaps is the biggest protector / absolver of policing inconsistency.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity

That’s just for civil lawsuits. It’s extremely difficult to criminally try police officers. A tweak in qualified immunity’s scope would go a long way in eliminating inconsistencies in policing in many people’s eyes as well as keep a constant focus on the training that police receive.
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I agree. Do you know any good talks or interviews on this topic?
 
Shamana said:
I agree. Do you know any good talks or interviews on this topic?
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There’s a few on YT from both sides of the political aisle.

Many on the right agree with the concept of amending / abolishing QA. You can get the wackos that are calling for the immunity to be raised to a higher, more absolute level, but that wouldn’t help the overall situation. It would potentially cause broader harm to every segment of society.

The Federalist Society, a con/libertarian think tank, has some on YT. I listened to part of one but couldn’t go on, not because of their views as I largely agreed with them, but it’s four lawyers discussing fine points & dorking out a bit.
 
calodo2003 said:
There’s a few on YT from both sides of the political aisle.

Many on the right agree with the concept of amending / abolishing QA. You can get the wackos that are calling for the immunity to be raised to a higher, more absolute level, but that wouldn’t help the overall situation. It would potentially cause broader harm to every segment of society.

The Federalist Society, a con/libertarian think tank, has some on YT. I listened to part of one but couldn’t go on, not because of their views as I largely agreed with them, but it’s four lawyers discussing fine points & dorking out a bit.
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I quite enjoyed the perspectives of Michael Sanchez in this interview on the nature of policing in the US and definitely comes across as the ideal the police officer. I felt Coleman was off when they discussed George Floyd, but I enjoyed the interview none the less. They touched upon some quite important subjects as well qualified immunity, but only quite briefly on that one.

 
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Shamana said:
I quite enjoyed the perspectives of Michael Sanchez in this interview on the nature of policing in the US and definitely comes across as the ideal the police officer. I felt Coleman was a bit off when they discussed George Floyd, but I enjoyed the interview none the less. They touched upon some quite important subjects as well qualified immunity, but only quite briefly on that one.

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Groovy. Something to peruse during lunch.
 
nimic said:
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Ten fecking rounds into him.

And apparently the initial police report read ‘non-life threatening injuries.’ He’s been in & out of surgery, eight bullets are still in him, too precarious to remove.

This will be quite an audio recording.
 
Shamana said:
Absolutely mental.

also "cordless phone"? We are like in 2021.
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It seems we may have gone from a strobe light in a shooting to no light at all in a shooting. We were discussing inconsistencies earlier. This is ridiculous.

Does a ‘gun to someone’s head’ warrant a shooting? Was the cop just trying to give him a hand in his efforts?
 
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