Cold War against China?

George Owen said:
China doesn't even have the tech to make their own airliners to rival Boeing and Airbus.

They obviously have advanced in many technological fronts, but they still way behind in many others.

They will eventually catch up, of course.
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They're definitely playing catch-up in some areas and are massive rivals in others but that's the same with most countries. COMAC is pretty close to production (supposed to be this year I think) of its first commercial jets. They've made military jets for years.

With their huge growth in the last few years I don't think they're far away in most areas and I think that will hit people eventually.
 
Balljy said:
What do you think they have "better technology know-how" in? China has been at the forefront of smartphones, routers, electronic design for years now. There's been a global stamp-down on Huawei to try to get them out of networks they're currently dominating worldwide due to concerns.

Maybe China stole some of those designs to catch-up 10 years ago, I don't know but there's no way they're behind at this moment in time
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China are catching up but surely it's not controversial to claim the US still edges it tech-wise?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/us-...ng-has-strength-to-catch-up-with-us-lead.html
 
VorZakone said:
China are catching up but surely it's not controversial to claim the US still edges it tech-wise?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/us-...ng-has-strength-to-catch-up-with-us-lead.html
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They definitely lead in some areas, but China do in others, Korea in others etc (and I would argue UK for ARM although it's now been bought out). Even that article starts with " The United States might be leading in some areas of its technology race with China" rather than saying a flat they're ahead.
 
fergieisold said:
I find this really interesting, the 'tech' suggestion has popped up a few times. Do we really live in a world where Russia, China and the USA differ significantly in terms of technical know how?
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The Russians always had some truly extraordinary technology.

They were the first to orbit. First to put a man into space. Probably everyone knows about these, and that they won those respective races.

Here are two others:

They built this ridiculous thing sea monster.



They build this passive audio capture bugs which were truly amazing (can't find a great video on it, but these two will do).





In terms of Space Exploration - China are probably ahead of the USA right now (SpaceX not included). NASAs big thing is the SLS which is effectively a useless jobs program.

China are planting flags on the moon with robots. They are launching new space laboratories.
 
Balljy said:
They definitely lead in some areas, but China do in others, Korea in others etc (and I would argue UK for ARM although it's now been bought out). Even that article starts with " The United States might be leading in some areas of its technology race with China" rather than saying a flat they're ahead.
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Even with ARM, considering the UK as a tech leader is a bit of a joke :lol:
 
Balljy said:
They definitely lead in some areas, but China do in others, Korea in others etc (and I would argue UK for ARM although it's now been bought out). Even that article starts with " The United States might be leading in some areas of its technology race with China" rather than saying a flat they're ahead.
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Interesting. In which area do you think China is on top?
 
fergieisold said:
Sorry but what do you mean? China's ongoing genocide? The control over it's people and the way they express themselves? Causing a global pandemic because they didn't want anybody to think there was a virus that originated from them? You might not like the USA but they're miles away from what the world would look like under any real Chinese influence.
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We dont know what Chinese influence really looks like yet - at least in terms of the West. What we DO know is the impact America has had and it's absolutely terrible mostly.
 
JPRouve said:
Interesting. In which area do you think China is on top?
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The production of high quality components at a cost that blows other countries tech out of the water at their price. And easily.
 
sun_tzu said:
Didn't nvidia (american) buy them out not too long back
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Yeah, I said that earlier that they were bought out. I was just making the point that different countries always have leads in different areas generally (and ARM was UK when it grew to pretty much what it is now)
 
Balljy said:
The production of high quality components at a cost that blows other countries tech out of the water at their price. And easily.
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That's not a technology, that's cheaper labor.
 
Balljy said:
You think millions of Chinese kids put together chips with 7 nanometre gaps between billions of transistors?
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No, otherwise I would have mentioned kids.
 
Balljy said:
The production of high quality components at a cost that blows other countries tech out of the water at their price. And easily.
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To my knowledge, microchip production is actually a weak point of China's. They can use the machinery cheaply, but they cannot produce the machinery that produces the chips. Other countries do that, and I think most of them are allied more closely with the US. Last I read (a few months ago), China was working hard on trying to fix this gap and considering it rather crucial.
 
Cheimoon said:
To my knowledge, microchip production is actually a weak point of China's. They can use the machinery cheaply, but they cannot produce the machinery that produces the chips. Other countries do that, and I think most of them are allied more closely with the US. Last I read (a few months ago), China was working hard on trying to fix this gap and considering it rather crucial.
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Yes I think the US sanctions probably pushed them to do this quicker than they would have otherwise done
https://asiatimes.com/2020/12/china-a-step-closer-to-independence-in-microchip-war/
 
I can't believe so many of you seem to be CCP lovers. :(
 
Cal? said:
I can't believe so many of you seem to be CCP lovers. :(
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Having lived in China I'd say its hard not to look at the massive improvements in the lifes of my wife's family on the mainland... having grown up in hk obviously the general concensus is different but if you spent any significant time there you would probably see the situation as more nuanced than typically shown in Western media
 
VorZakone said:
I wanted to reply in the last thread on this but it gave me "don't bump old threads" notification, so hereby a new thread.

I've been doing a lot of reading on China lately. Fascinating stuff honestly. They're probably a bigger adversary than the Soviet Union for the West.

China seems to be surpassing Russia in 5th gen fighter jet development with its J20 jet.

According to some military report I've found, the Chinese have also achieved parity and/or exceeded the US in a couple of areas (shipbuilding for example).

Despite their progress they still have military weaknesses which China hopes to have addressed by 2050 approximately.

But all in all, China seems to become more aggressive in their pursuit to becoming a superpower.

Thoughts?
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I'm not biased towards the CCP but the hatred towards china is a massive political and media bias.

To cut the story short, the US cannot stand that it will no longer be the global superpower it once was. China will lead in terms of economy within a few years. It's easy to see why. The western media constantly pumping out crap against China to get the general Western population riled.

The same people who are anti China are pro USA (or probably used to be) - the Nation that has a far, far bigger history of feck ups over the past few hundred years.

By the way I'm British - but I urge people to visit the country :)
 
fergieisold said:
I find this really interesting, the 'tech' suggestion has popped up a few times. Do we really live in a world where Russia, China and the USA differ significantly in terms of technical know how?
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Yes. The most capable aircraft known to man began development in the 1970s, and American warships are protected by a system dating back to the 1960s. Think what China's military was like back then. It takes decades to develop this stuff properly.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
The UK is arguably the best of the rest after the US and China. The sector has been booming in recent years.

https://workplaceinsight.net/uk-remains-a-world-leader-in-technological-innovation/
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In what world? What tech companies does the UK have?

South Korea:

Samsung
LG
Hyundai
Kia
Plus a load of other ones that I have never heard of
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-35693226
https://uncubed.com/daily/south-korean-startups-technology-companies/

Japan:

Sony
Canon
Brother
Casio
Fujifilm,
Fujitsu,
Hitachi
JVC-Kenwood
Mitsubishi,
Nintendo,
Panasonic,
Ricoh,
Sharp,
Toshiba and
Yamaha.

My TV: South Korean
My car: Japanese
My other car: Japanese
The machines at work: Japanese
My Laptop: Taiwanese
My games console: Japanese
My phone: South Korean
 
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rcoobc said:
Tallest building in the world

In what world? What tech companies does the UK have?

South Korea:
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Talking about tech innovation I guess, fintech, AI etc rather than manufacturing televisions. Similar to how the UK is up there with Germany when it comes to automotive engineering despite manufacturing few cars.

Although I’d guess South Korea are pretty good at tech innovation too which is why I said ‘arguably’.
 
With a more competent US administration, you will see a lot of more restrictions on technology exports to China in the interest of national security, in the coming months and years I'm sure.
 
tinfish said:
I'm not biased towards the CCP but the hatred towards china is a massive political and media bias.

To cut the story short, the US cannot stand that it will no longer be the global superpower it once was. China will lead in terms of economy within a few years. It's easy to see why. The western media constantly pumping out crap against China to get the general Western population riled.

The same people who are anti China are pro USA (or probably used to be) - the Nation that has a far, far bigger history of feck ups over the past few hundred years.

By the way I'm British - but I urge people to visit the country :)
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Do you have examples of Western media pumping out "crap" against China?
 
Balljy said:
In my stupidity it amazed me to learn that the US and Russia are 2.5 miles apart (and around 50 miles across the Bering Strait)
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And that Alaska is the most weastern, northern and estern State of the US
 
VorZakone said:
Do you have examples of Western media pumping out "crap" against China?
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The narrative from the beginning of the pandemic was one blatant example. I can atest to that because it's one subject I dedicated a lot of time to in the beginning, unlike other issues that I only read about superficially. Most major news outlets participated on it. China is not exactly North Korea, there are thousands of westerners living there, including journalists. It's possible to cross check information.

Can't speak for other subjects, but it did open my eyes to the possibility that we too are subject to forms of propaganda.
 
4bars said:
And that Alaska is the most weastern, northern and estern State of the US
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Even more startling, it was bought from Russia in 1867 for only about $120m in today's prices.
 
VorZakone said:
Does China have clear allies?

It's one thing becoming a superpower but even the US needs the likes of Canada, UK, France and Australia+NZ to get things done and coordinate operations.

China on its own can't do that. Having India as an enemy also will be a problem to them.
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Overlooked comment imo. The US still has the geographically most favorable position of all. Every country in its entire hemisphere bar about 2 (that combined add up to population of $40M) is an ally or at least has cordial relations, and none of them are serious threats. The US ends up dedicating very little of its resources and focus on maintaining this position, and can direct nearly all of its attention elsewhere (and sometimes into giant blunders like Iraq).

China will continue to pull away from the US in size of sheer economy. But will it ever reach the size of all the economies combined that you could consider allied to the US? Will it ever detach any of those countries into its own sphere of influence? Even Japan would be a hard ask, and even less reason for a European power to do so. Plus as you said, having not only India but also Japan, Korea, Vietnam, and historically even Russia as bordering adversaries takes up a lot of resources and attention.

So I still think the US "plays" from the advantageous position. They might squander it by having poor strategy, or no strategy at all. But China's move to full equal status is harder than just "surpass GDP = profit".
 
Arruda said:
The narrative from the beginning of the pandemic was one blatant example. I can atest to that because it's one subject I dedicated a lot of time to in the beginning, unlike other issues that I only read about superficially. Most major news outlets participated on it. China is not exactly North Korea, there are thousands of westerners living there, including journalists. It's possible to cross check information.

Can't speak for other subjects, but it did open my eyes to the possibility that we too are subject to forms of propaganda.
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I think the thing about China is that you can have a pretty life as a middle class citizen as long as you don't critize the regime. They have been incredibly succesfull in economic growth. However I think what they done to the tibetans and still do is pretty awfull and it's not western propaganda. The tibetans don't for instance self-immolate to show their graitutude to the CCP. I happen to know a lot tibetans because I've had an interest in tibetan buddhism since I was 18 and I've met quite a few who have spent over a decade in a prison camp. Now they have more recently started giving the Uighurs the same treatment and I don't consider that made up propapagande either.
 
Shamana said:
I think the thing about China is that you can have a pretty life as a middle class citizen as long as you don't critize the regime. They have been incredibly succesfull in economic growth. However I think what they done to the tibetans and still do is pretty awfull and it's not western propaganda. The tibetans don't for instance self-immolate to show their graitutude to the CCP. I happen to know a lot tibetans because I've had an interest in tibetan buddhism since I was 18 and I've met quite a few who have spent over a decade in a prison camp. Now they have more recently started giving the Uighurs the same treatment and I don't consider that made up propapagande either.
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Whatever China does wrong it does wrong, but it doesn't worse than many other countries. Actually other countries do it worse. But western propaganda scrutinize and spins out, somtimes exagerate (and I would say once or twice lied) things way more than any other country and it is for an obvious reason.

Also, the west had done, is doing and will do things the same or worse than China and using their media to criticise China while maybe they should focus in cleaning your house is kind of hipocritical
 
4bars said:
Whatever China does wrong it does wrong, but it doesn't worse than many other countries. Actually other countries do it worse. But western propaganda scrutinize and spins out, somtimes exagerate (and I would say once or twice lied) things way more than any other country and it is for an obvious reason.

Also, the west had done, is doing and will do things the same or worse than China and using their media to criticise China while maybe they should focus in cleaning your house is kind of hipocritical
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There is a difference though. The western media is allowed to critize their own regimes because we have free press. None of that ever happens in countries with goverments with toltalitarian goverments because they don't have free press and free speech. Essentially people suffering from the wrongs of totalitarian goverments reach out to the western free speech to have a voice.
 
Shamana said:
There is a difference though. The western media is allowed to critize their own regimes because we have free press. None of that ever happens in countries with goverments with toltalitarian goverments because they don't have free press and free speech. Essentially people suffering from the wrongs of totalitarian goverments reach out to the western free speech to have a voice.
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Sure, the western media will always have small outlets and some 1 or 2 weeks spree focusing on some problems and then forget about it but never puts on check their governments. Every single developed country sells billions in arms to the Saudis that are slaughtering Yemen, who knows what happened in Lybia-Syria concatenation, or operation Sofia in EU and a huge etc.. What China is doing indebting countries is straight playbook from the US in Southamerica in the 70 and 80.

The only reason that I want the west to "win" this supposed cold war is because I am from the west and I don't want to lose my priviledges. And chinese people wants to "win" because they want to thrive. This so called democracy give us some kind of freedom, but not as much as they want us to believe, more than freedom give us priviledges over the least favorable in our country and specially preying to other countries that we constantly plunder and disrupt their development to keep them under the foot....over and over and over. China has the CCP vs lots of the countries of the west have a bipartisan system that don't differ that much on the big scheme of things. China has censorship vs the west has sibiline manipulation making you believe you have a choice. In the end, both powers don't differ as much
 
4bars said:
Whatever China does wrong it does wrong, but it doesn't worse than many other countries. Actually other countries do it worse. But western propaganda scrutinize and spins out, somtimes exagerate (and I would say once or twice lied) things way more than any other country and it is for an obvious reason.

Also, the west had done, is doing and will do things the same or worse than China and using their media to criticise China while maybe they should focus in cleaning your house is kind of hipocritical
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If anything western media is nowhere critical enough of China but whatevs
 
rcoobc said:
If anything western media is nowhere critical enough of China but whatevs
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Not in what it matters in human rights but yes in other stupid PR stunt like the "China virus" that the right wing patriot media spun till a puking level
 
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