Club Sale | It’s done!

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devilish said:
His representatives were
Sam Powers and Yasir Shah ( Global Head of Technology, Media and Telecom at Bank of America Merrill Lynch)
lawyers from Macfarlanes
representatives from real estate and investment firms.

These are highly specialised people in real investment, real estate and global tech. They don't strike me as loan sharks
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See bold (think BEin/MUTV, manutd.com) versus INEOS' in-house sporting expertise.

It should give you some indication of how they see the project. I mean the Qatari bid could build a tech park around OT, mix residential/commercial space? The key is how do they develop constant foot traffic around the area rather than just on matchdays.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
You can say that about any of the potential buyers though. We can only go off what’s reported until they actually takeover and we can see first hand what they’ll actually do.
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And we should remember that for the most part all of the reports we are reading are PR from one party or another. Whether it's SJR saying he sees United as a community investment not a business investment, or Qatar reportedly dumping 7bn, they all want the fans on their side to use that to pressure the Glazers into accepting their bid.
 
sglowrider said:
See bold versus INEOS' in-house sporting expertise.

It should give you some indication on how they see the project.
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Its simply a different approach.

SJR and the other INEOS owners have decades of experience in buying huge companies. They also have in house football people already in place since that they can actually bring in.

Jassim lack that experience and that infrastructure. Thus he brought in

- Shazhad Shahbaz who is his equivalent of SJR (in terms of experience) and whose probably going to be his CEO if he gets United
- His legal advisor in Fady Bakhos
- There are rumours that Jassim will rest heavily on technology thus it made sense to bring two people in that field. They are probably the guys who suggested that bidding for United makes sense.
- People in real estate who will help him understand if the infrastructure really need a 2B investment

I would have loved if Jassim came in himself. That was a huge PR mistake in my opinion. However ultimately that meeting was all about presentations and number crunching. All that is needed was very specialised people who goes in, analyse the darn place and then turn those numbers into a bid.
 
Shakesey said:
See, what's sad is we'd become unstoppable. And while we'd know it's because we're a strong club not crippled by debt, others would just attribute our success to oil. Irregardless of our history.

You say it would take a while for us to catch City. I'm not so sure. With unlimited funds we'd be pushing for the top in 2 seasons. We're already almost there...
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I do not care how we are perceived by the rest of the world. If they want to hate, let them. It is their choice and right, and I could not care less. Pep is still at City and he is still a brilliant manager. Newcastle are bound to improve, and we have not been in a proper title race for a decade. I also doubt we will have unlimited funds. We will have enough to compete with the big boys due to the massive work done by SAF and Qatar freeing us from the leeches' debt.
 
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devilish said:
His representatives were

Shazhad Shahbaz -president of the 92 foundation
Fady Bakhos - he is a legal, corporate and investment advisor to Jassim
Sam Powers and Yasir Shah ( Global Head of Technology, Media and Telecom at Bank of America Merrill Lynch)
lawyers from Macfarlanes
representatives from real estate and investment firms.

These are highly specialised people in real investment, real estate and global tech. They don't strike me as loan sharks
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Basically, people who make a deal happen were there.
 
Plant0x84 said:
So that £7bn on top of the purchase price?!! :eek:
Tell me the bid is state funded without saying state funded.
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I think it was mentioned before that they want to regenerate the entire area around OT so I would assume that would be part of it. Something similar to what City's owners did.
 
Water Melon said:
I do not care how we are perceived by the rest of the world. If they want to hate, let them. It is their choice and right, and I could not care less. Pep is still at City and he is still a brilliant manager. Newcastle are bound to improve, and we have not been in a proper title race for a decade. And we I doubt we will have unlimited funds. We will have enough to compete with the big boys due to the massive work done by SAF and Qatar freeing us from the leeches' debt.
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We will be the big boy of big boys due to the unlimited fund and history.
 
devilish said:
Its simply a different approach.

SJR and the other INEOS owners have decades of experience in buying huge companies. They also have in house football people already in place since that they can actually bring in.

Jassim lack that experience and that infrastructure. Thus he brought in

- Shazhad Shahbaz who is his equivalent of SJR (in terms of experience) and whose probably going to be his CEO if he gets United
- His legal advisor in Fady Bakhos
- There are rumours that Jassim will rest heavily on technology thus it made sense to bring two people in that field. They are probably the guys who suggested that bidding for United makes sense.
- People in real estate who will help him understand if the infrastructure really need a 2B investment

I would have loved if Jassim came in himself. That was a huge PR mistake in my opinion. However ultimately that meeting was all about presentations and number crunching. All that is needed was very specialised people who goes in, analyse the darn place and then turn those numbers into a bid.
Click to expand...

Jassim will show up in the final stage of the discussion. That meeting last week was for due diligence. But when the deal starts to narrow down, then he gets more involved since he has to sign off on the final details. That's how I would play it.

Another possible reason why they are so confident is that they see football/United as an enabler. They will have multiple revenue streams other than from United.

They may have had the structure of the business model developed in advance of the bidding process already. I would have built an ecosystem model centred around the brand/cub United but consisting of multitudes of new business units, and different partners.

A digitally transformed ecosystem versus a more traditional conglomerate model. A different generation of owners with differing approaches?
 
7bn on top of what they are spending to buy the club is insane. Even if we end up spending 2-3bn , we will have new stadium and huge investment in team
 
JagUTD said:
Who did Jassim send to the first stage meeting? Bank of somewhere representatives wasn't it?
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As said many, many times before....

How do you expect him to give Glazers money? He rocks up with briefcases full of money? Of course banks have to be used.
 
pratyush_utd said:
7bn on top of what they are spending to buy the club is insane. Even if we end up spending 2-3bn , we will have new stadium and huge investment in team
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Buying the Glazers out is one commitment. But to recover all that investment you need to dump in even more money. That's why the Glazers had hit their glass ceiling on how far they can take United within their resources.
 
red thru&thru said:
Basically, people who make a deal happen were there.
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It's a different approach, mostly driven by circumstances. INEOS can rely on 3 veterans who are well versed in making these sort of acquisitions (ie the owners). They also have an in house sports branch as well. These people are trusted by SJR and will retain their job even if the bid fails.

Jassim's Ninety Two foundation is few months (if not weeks) old and none of them had bought a football club before let alone being versed in dealing with Raine. These people entered the job knowing very well that most of them are on an advisory basis while the rest will lose their job if the bid is unsuccessful. Thus it probably consists of either Jassim's inner circle or very specialised people he can trust.

Finding a football person that

a- has experience in dealing with clubs of the magnitude of Manchester United
b- can be trusted

In such short time is almost impossible. INEOS has been in football for years and it took them till 2022 to sign someone with the right experience and football intelligence to do the job (ie Jean Claude Blanc). Prior to that it was all about the likes of bike man and Bob Ratcliffe winging it. We know that very well ourselves. After SAF had left how managers have we signed before we found someone whose half decent? What is our experience with temporary managers?



sglowrider said:
Jassim will show up in the final stage of the discussion. That meeting last week was for due diligence. But when the deal starts to narrow down, then he gets more involved since he has to sign off on the final details. That's how I would play it.

Another possible reason why they are so confident is that they see football/United as an enabler. They will have multiple revenue streams other than from United.

They may have had the structure of the business model developed in advance of the bidding process already. I would have built an ecosystem model centred around the brand/cub United but consisting of multitudes of new business units, and different partners.

A digitally transformed ecosystem versus a more traditional conglomerate model. A different generation of owners with differing approaches?
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Well Jassim's bid seem to tackle both the digital more innovative world but also the traditional conservative means of making money (ie stadium, training grounds etc). I agree about the rest.
 
I haven't posted on this previously, but my instinct is that I would have preferred the club to be owned by a UK based consortia. I don't like this Petrol-driven models of the sports franchise. Just doesn't sit comfortably with me. It has changed football, the expectations of fans, and what the actual game means. The structure of football, which was a game that the working classes could associate with, is now reflecting wider society and economics, with a v v small hugely wealthy elite, simply buying clubs. The soul is being lost.

Look at PSG. How on earth do they reflect the city of Paris? Or the history of that club.

It's ok for people to be excited becaue we may have enough money to bid for Mbappe.. but so what? Is that it?

Man Utd represents far, far, far more than that, and I wish there was a model wher we fans could own a significan share of the club.

May seem a post that is a little dreamy, and rather naive, but tis' how I feel.
 
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devilish said:
It's a different approach, mostly driven by circumstances. INEOS can rely on 3 veterans who are well versed in making these sort of acquisitions (ie the owners). They also have an in house sports branch as well. These people are trusted by SJR and will retain their job even if the bid fails.

Jassim's Ninety Two foundation is few months (if not weeks) old and none of them had bought a football club before let alone being versed in dealing with Raine. These people entered the job knowing very well that most of them are on an advisory basis while the rest will lose their job if the bid is unsuccessful. Thus it probably consists of either Jassim's inner circle or very specialised people he can trust.

Finding a football person that

a- has experience in dealing with clubs of the magnitude of Manchester United
b- can be trusted

In such short time is almost impossible. INEOS has been in football for years and it took them till 2022 to sign someone with the right experience and football intelligence to do the job (ie Jean Claude Blanc). Prior to that it was all about the likes of bike man and Bob Ratcliffe winging it. We know that very well ourselves. After SAF had left how managers have we signed before we found someone whose half decent? What is our experience with temporary managers?





Well Jassim's bid seem to tackle both the digital more innovative world but also the traditional conservative means of making money (ie stadium, training grounds etc). I agree about the rest.
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I work in the digital space -- have since 1994. (from dial-up/ISDN onwards)

You will see shifts in digital models because of the development of different generations/evolution of the web. Jassim is 40 so he's pretty much grown up in the Internet era.

Ratcliffe is 70 and really in an immigrant into the Internet space, at best and at worse, someone who doesn't see the need to engage in the area. The Internet is now more ecosystem and collaborative versus a more in-house conglomerate of a different generation of business leaders.

Thats why I said it a while ago. Different business models.

Looking forward to when we get to hear their vision and plans going forward.
 
Jeffthered said:
I haven't posted on this previously, but my instinct is that I would have preferred the club to be owned by a UK based consortia. I don't like this Petrol-driven models of the sports franchise. Just doesn't sit comfortably with me. It has changed football, the expectations of fans, and what the actual game means. The structure of football, which was a game that the working classes could associate with, is now reflecting wider society and economics, with a v v small hugely wealthy elite, simply buying clubs. The soul is being lost.

Look at PSG. How on earth do they reflect the city of Paris? Or the history of that club.

It's ok for people to be excited becaue we may have enough money to bhid for Mbappe.. but so what? Is that it?

Man Utd represents far, far, far more than that, and I wish there was a model wher we fans could own a significan share of the club.

May seem a post that is a little dreamy, and rather naive, but tis' how I feel.
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Ideally we'd have no state owned clubs (or technically not state owned but we know they are) clubs around at all. City would be in the Championship at best, Newcastle upper mid table, PSG still Lyon's bitch, Chelsea wouldn't have league titles or a Champions League to their name.

I think the fear with some is that it's starting to feel like a necessary evil, otherwise the club will remain saddled with debt and won't be competing for titles as it should have been these last 10 years. And if they don't win the United bid, they'll probably get Liverpool, Arsenal or Spurs (albeit with a different front man) and we'll have to watch them sign players we should have and win things we should be winning in a fair world.

Yes ideally we'd have ownership in tune with the fans and with the same ambitions, but it's not possible with what we're competing against now
 
red thru&thru said:
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The club will soar with this backing.

Meanwhile the alternative is being owned by a hedge fund, or becoming a division of a chemical company and remaining shackled to the Glazer debt whilst Ratcliffe starts a whole new debt with Goldman Sachs.

I sincerely hope Qatar gets this deal done.
 
Tiber said:
The club will soar with this backing.

Meanwhile the alternative is being owned by a hedge fund, or becoming a division of a chemical company and remaining shackled to the Glazer debt whilst Ratcliffe starts a whole new debt with Goldman Sachs.

I sincerely hope Qatar gets this deal done.
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Reckon you could post your support for Qatar without shitting on INEOS? Your language is a joke, so biased and overblown and unnecessary.
We get it, you favour the Jassim bid.
Do you consider us a division of a property company currently? Would we be a division of a banking company or if the state of Qatar if Jassim is successful? Just dial it down a touch. No need for the rhetoric.
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
To be honest, sometimes rival fans know things and we could get some insights after analyzing their reactions.
They cheered on Moyes "the chosen one", whom we did well to get rid.
They cheered on "Ole at the wheel", and we all know how Ole turned out.
Now they are angry at the prospect of the Qataris buying us.
Do we see some patterns here?
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Patterns? In the thoughts of football fans?

You wanna know the pattern, it’s scattergun, often based on emotions and with zero logic, they are more often wrong than they are right.

Oh how we sneered at Arteta, oh how we all sneered at Arsenal’s ownership and their desperation for Daniel Ek to save them.
Oh how they shit their pants at Falcao and Di Maria, Pogba & Zlatan. Blah blah
 
Plant0x84 said:
Reckon you could post your support for Qatar without shitting on INEOS? Your language is a joke, so biased and overblown and unnecessary.
We get it, you favour the Jassim bid.
Do you consider us a division of a property company currently? Would we be a division of a banking company or if the state of Qatar if Jassim is successful? Just dial it down a touch. No need for the rhetoric.
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What :lol:

I think you're overreacting.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Reckon you could post your support for Qatar without shitting on INEOS? Your language is a joke, so biased and overblown and unnecessary.
We get it, you favour the Jassim bid.
Do you consider us a division of a property company currently? Would we be a division of a banking company or if the state of Qatar if Jassim is successful? Just dial it down a touch. No need for the rhetoric.
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But how isnt it true? If Ineos are going to take on Ratcliffe's vast new debt instead of the club we will be tied directly to Ineos. Even his PR statements are via the Ineos press office. It's presented as an Ineos takeover, not Ratcliffe personally assuming the debt.

And what happens in the not very distant future when 70 year old Ratcliffe retires or Ineos is sold to whoever takes over after Ratcliffe and his equally old co founders? It doesn't have shareholders so someone will have to run it.

Damn right I want Qatar. But if Ratcliffe and Ineos are Option B they are going to have to be clear about what it means to be owned by a Chemical company.
 
red thru&thru said:
Brilliant details again, thank you for that, mate.

Yeah, for me in regards to Jassim, it's all the people he would have around him to boost Manchester United's revenues is what excites me. There's so much potential.

There's a reason why the BofA tech guy was also there at the meeting last week. He would've already been thinking in a technical way how the profits could be raised.

There's so much untapped potential at this club. It's been pretty criminal to have been left so far behind, when we used to be at the forefront of it all.
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That's not quite his job. Also he's there because there is a broad coverage sector in financial markets called Technology, Media, and Telecom, or TMT for short. He's the head of their TMT practice in their Investment Bank division. Sports teams are usually deemed Media operations for purposes of coverage.
 
Tiber said:
But how isnt it true? If Ineos are going to take on Ratcliffe's vast new debt instead of the club we will be tied directly to Ineos. Even his PR statements are via the Ineos press office. It's presented as an Ineos takeover, not Ratcliffe personally assuming the debt.

And what happens in the not very distant future when 70 year old Ratcliffe retires or Ineos is sold to whoever takes over after Ratcliffe and his equally old co founders? It doesn't have shareholders so someone will have to run it.

Damn right I want Qatar. But if Ratcliffe and Ineos are Option B they are going to have to be clear about what it means to be owned by a Chemical company.
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Nothing wrong with this view at all.
 
Tiber said:
And what happens in the not very distant future when 70 year old Ratcliffe retires or Ineos is sold to whoever takes over after Ratcliffe and his equally old co founders? It doesn't have shareholders so someone will have to run it.

Damn right I want Qatar. But if Ratcliffe and Ineos are Option B they are going to have to be clear about what it means to be owned by a Chemical company.
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An FT article suggested that INEOS will be bought out by one of the Big Oils within the decade because of the reason you mentioned. Ratcliffe is a unique individual in the oil world.
 
No matter how we look at at it, it seems Jassim's bid is the better one by miles for the club. That's what it matters.

Some people are against him based on absolutely nothing and throwing accusations on sport washing, state owned and whatnot.

The club is the priority here. With proper investment and management we will be enormous without cheating like City and PSG. We have long history and big fan base to be back to the richest and biggest club in the world.
 
sglowrider said:
An FT article suggested that INEOS will be bought out by one of the Big Oils within the decade because of the reason you mentioned. Ratcliffe is a unique individual in the oil world.
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Presumably, we then get sold to the highest bidder, Probably a state.

It's inevitable at this stage with the vast sums needed to buy and invest into the club.
 
MTF said:
That's not quite his job. Also he's there because there is a broad coverage sector in financial markets called Technology, Media, and Telecom, or TMT for short. He's the head of their TMT practice in their Investment Bank division. Sports teams are usually deemed Media operations for purposes of coverage.
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I'm sure technology would be a part of the conversation.
 
sglowrider said:
I work in the digital space -- have since 1994. (from dial-up/ISDN onwards)

You will see shifts in digital models because of the development of different generations/evolution of the web. Jassim is 40 so he's pretty much grown up in the Internet era.

Ratcliffe is 70 and really in an immigrant into the Internet space, at best and at worse, someone who doesn't see the need to engage in the area. The Internet is now more ecosystem and collaborative versus a more in-house conglomerate of a different generation of business leaders.

Thats why I said it a while ago. Different business models.

Looking forward to when we get to hear their vision and plans going forward.
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Oh I agree but it's nice that he is not ignoring the legacy ways of revenue either. Honestly I'd love to be in a situation were I can buy a United digital season ticket thus having access to only United games. Cable TV adds too much redundant stuff that I am frankly not interested in
 
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