Club Sale | It’s done!

[Compton22]

Isn't he the one funding it as well?

Ineos or bust then

How have you come to that conclusion assuming you've read what was said and who said it?

 

[LawCharltonBest]

How have you come to that conclusion assuming you've read what was said and who said it?

I'm stuck in a 3 hour teams meeting and i want to die.

I read "I don't like this investment" - how have I misinterpreted it?

 

[Tarrou]

It makes sense that he wouldn’t like the investment, it’s a massive risk for that amount of money.. and it also makes sense to say it from a negotiation point of view

So all in all it seems like he knows what’s up

 

[Red in STL]

Since the listed shares form a minority holding, any acquisition of shares beyond a certain percent (often 50% but depends) will require them to compulsorily make a full takeover bid. Glazers did the same when they took over and that's when some people refused to sell them their shares and instead let it go worthless and framed it as a memorabilia in their walls.

Here's one of many threads on that:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/glazer-has-enough-man-utd-shares-to-force-fans-to-sell.80059/

I was in school back then but I distinctly remember these posts since I followed these events in redcafe with great curiosity.

Those are the regulations in the UK but they are not in the US which is where they are listed

 

[red thru&thru]

I'm stuck in a 3 hour teams meeting and i want to die.

I read "I don't like this investment" - how have I misinterpreted it?

Meaning, well I wouldn't spend the money on it, but my kids want to, so, I will give them the money.

How many times have our parents agree with our choices?

 

[Red in STL]

I don't know about VR football, think we are way off that, but I do find it incredible, that every PL game is available in South Africa, Malaysia, Singapore, etc... and 90+% in America yet the country it is played in is a fraction... I understand that they don't want to affect match day crowds, but seriously if I cannot get to OT and there are many occasions where it is impossible I have to stream content from the other side of the world if I want to watch it.... madness! there surely must be a change where all games are made available even if there is a basic package as per what we have now and the rest are available PPV

It's 100% in the US not 90+% and you can also get the EFL and FA cups as well as all the CL and Europa games

 

[BluesJr]

To me, this is just more posturing to really establish that this isn’t a state bid and it’s an individual. Jassim is going about this really well.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Meaning, well I wouldn't spend the money on it, but my kids want to, so, I will give them the money.

How many times have our parents agree with our choices?

Seems he ultimately draws the line and is bidding for something currently owned by very,very greedy people who will want to rip him off over something he isn't even convinced of.

 

[DevilRed]

We're not selling.

We're not overpaying.

Lets see who blinks first.

 

[sglowrider]

It makes sense that he wouldn’t like the investment, it’s a massive risk for that amount of money.. and it also makes sense to say it from a negotiation point of view

So all in all it seems like he knows what’s up

The ol' good cop/bad cop approach. But the Glazers could also be doing the same thing -- United Bros versus the other siblings.

 

[Drifter]

“I am not a football fan,” said Sheikh Hamad, speaking before Sheikh Jassim tabled his bid. “I don’t like this investment. Maybe it will work well. But you know, some of my sons like this, they always discuss it with me.

 

[Tarrou]

The ol' good cop/bad cop approach. But the Glazers could also be doing the same thing -- United Bros versus the other siblings.

yeah I think they are doing the same

it’s just a pure negotiation now, the only thing left to decide is how close to the asking price Qatar will pay

I guess it could drag on a while

 

[cyberman]

Seems Athletic have cut up his quotes to get this.
It’s a little eye opening

 

[AlPistacho]

Isn't he the one funding it as well?

Ineos or bust then

Watch the interview. It’s very revealing. Not surprised that Whitwell is selectively quoting parts.
1) He doesn’t like football
2) His children do, they often tell him to invest in a football team. He doesn’t do things for PR/Image.
3) He only invests in things that add value to the either the company, the customer, or his family.
4) Part of his legacy he wants to leave something that his children can work on together and set as an example for the people of Qatar about “working together”

So 2 plus 3 plus 4 = could equal 9 but only for the right price due to the fact that he’s not mega wealthy and he has strong business principles. His wealth is probably £10-20b range, his advantage would probably be access to %0 loans from an Islamic bank

Also worth noting he was against the WC in Qatar because he thought it was too much money. But now it’s over he thinks it was good for the country and the fans. This is key.. he’s seen the effect of football/sport.

My concerns. He seems like a qualified guy. But I have no idea about his son, and he said “children” we’ve seen often children with daddies money tend not to be the brightest. And even when working on a family business siblings often have disagreements. I’d want to be certain they will run it like City and be hands off.

 

[AlPistacho]

That’s not the take from that article.

He is sponsoring his son’s bid. He is he backer. Also confirmed on the interview with a text that said “two weeks after this interview was recorded Sheikh Hamad sponsored his sons bid for Man Utd”

 

[AlPistacho]

Seems Athletic have cut up his quotes to get this.
It’s a little eye opening

It’s becoming obvious it has nothing to do with the State. Now any attempt to still discredit him is about what?

 

[AlPistacho]

I'm stuck in a 3 hour teams meeting and i want to die.

I read "I don't like this investment" - how have I misinterpreted it?

He’s children do, and he wants to leave something that his children work on together to set an example for Qatar.

Honestly. When it comes to this bid. Certain journalist should be viewed as manipulative to their agenda. This interview 30 minutes is the perfect example.

 

[AlPistacho]

To me, this is just more posturing to really establish that this isn’t a state bid and it’s an individual. Jassim is going about this really well.

It was a 30 minute interview about business and politics. He is regular on Bloomberg over years because he is very wealthy and invests in things. Football was only 1 question.

 

[Tarrou]

It’s becoming obvious it has nothing to do with the State. Now any attempt to still discredit him is about what?

I mean, the guy ‘funding’ it doesn’t like the investment and doesn’t like football.. And your takeaway is it’s obvious this is a private bid. Ha

 

[devilish]

I have said it before, I suspect they will use the Club as a centrepiece of various other regeneration or property development projects, Legoland-like parks. You know the GCC area, they love their property developments. They could do twin projects -- around the OT area (using United's land bank) and twin it with what's going on in Qatar -- using migrant labour no doubt!!

He franchises the United brand to other Qatari organisations -- they pay him billions in return. Thats part of his revenue stream/capital for buying United. His dad from the interview sounds like a business guy so this is what he would expect.

Being so far away -- and the frustration of not being at OT for every match -- and knowing they have a huge global audience -- 115 million just for the Barca game but only 75,000 at OT, he will put money into bringing the virtual OT experience to the hundreds of millions of United fans. They are already doing this with ex-players' visits. Why not virtualise this for every match everywhere on a permanent basis? They attempted to do this but with very small investment. Imagine watching United in a mini-OT at your local United 'clubhouse' with the sounds and atmosphere streamed into the location. Holographc appearances of the manager, players or the gimp from MUTV right in-front of you?

Qatar is both a broadcaster and content rights owner of the PL, CL, EL, Serie A, la Liga, Ligue 1 to MENA --- and France, the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Turkey, Hong Kong, Singapore, Brunei, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines and Thailand and Egypt. Satellite to internet infrastructure, existing relationships with existing broadcasting partners, authorities etc. It's already set up & working. The only fear is we get the cnut Richard Keys doing out in-house broadcasting.

Regardless that's some serious infrastructure MUTV can leverage. Bringing United closer to you -- and integrated into your lives daily. You just have to look at the United app and you can see what they are already trying to do -- but on a shoestring budget. Imagine what they can do if they have millions.

Which would lead us to the same question. Where the hell is the money coming from? I am pretty sure that the Sheikh is worth far more then its officially claimed. However United will cost the guy around 8-9b. That's quite a big chunk of his wealth. So why is he doing all that? Why would someone like him invest most of his wealth in one of his 15 children's hobby?

In my opinion United's sale came as a surprise. That's not me saying it but SJR himself. The guy tried to buy us in the summer and was basically told to Feck off. Now there's no doubt that Qatar has the money but they lack something no one can buy ie time. Manchester United is a priceless asset, its available in this short time window, Qatar already own a big club which makes a straight buy impossible and building the structures needed to own them both (like INEOS and Red Bull does) require time. That's were I think Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani comes in. From the emir side he's certainly more trusted then the Glazers are but he's not liked enough to re-enter the inner circle without first proving himself useful to him first. Thus the sheikh can buy United on the emir's behalf, possibly with the emir owning a minority stake up until the time is ripe for the latter to set his house in order and get full ownership. If the Qatari has a similar culture to the Libyans and Tunisians then such favours will not go unnoticed.

 

[AlPistacho]

I mean, the guy ‘funding’ it doesn’t like the investment and doesn’t like football.. And your takeaway is it’s obvious this is a private bid. Ha

Did you watch the full 30 minute interview? I posted last night, after watching it & before the athlete today that he will not overpay for Man Utd. It’s possible to listen to a man speak and answer questions for 30 minutes and understand a lot about him.

He was the man in charge of the Qatar investment fund. He invested trillions for Qatar. When dealing with trillions, commission of 1% will give someone a personal wealth of £10-£20b now realise he probably received more than 1% commissions, plus he has access to 0% loans. Even the Athletic previously described him as “too rich for comfort “

 

[sglowrider]

Which would lead us to the same question. Where the hell is the money coming from? I am pretty sure that the Sheikh is worth far more then its officially claimed. However United will cost the guy around 8-9b. That's quite a big chunk of his wealth. So why is he doing all that? Why would someone like him invest most of his wealth in one of his 15 children's hobby?

In my opinion United's sale came as a surprise. That's not me saying it but SJR himself. The guy tried to buy us in the summer and was basically told to Feck off. Now there's no doubt that Qatar has the money but they lack something no one can buy ie time. Manchester United is a priceless asset, its available in this short time window, Qatar already own a big club which makes a straight buy impossible and building the structures needed to own them both (like INEOS and Red Bull does) require time. That's were I think Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani comes in. From the emir side he's certainly more trusted then the Glazers are but he's not liked enough to re-enter the inner circle without first proving himself useful to him first. Thus the sheikh can buy United on the emir's behalf, possibly with the emir owning a minority stake up until the time is ripe for the latter to set his house in order and get full ownership. If the Qatari has a similar culture to the Libyans and Tunisians then such favours will not go unnoticed.

The folks who want to use the franchise/brand pays for it into the foundation. The foundation could be a 'club fee' to have the use of the brand/theme.. Legoland/United land?
All the main GCC states love property development.

Bein could do a JV with MUtV and kick in investment or a club fee into the 92 foundation or working capital.

Then everything will be above board. No sovereign fund etc.

Assuming that his dad is an investor then he will think beyond the football club. But the brand and the hundreds of millions United fans. I don't think they will buy it for future favours. There is all sorts of property development projects eg sports amusement parks etc they can spinoff.

Then buying the United club and the usage of global brand for 8billion ain't expensive. It's the coke of football after all.

 

[devilish]

The folks who want to use the franchise/brand pays for it into the foundation. The foundation could be a 'club fee' to have the use of the brand/theme.. Legoland/United land?
All the main GCC states love property development.

Bein could do a JV with MUtV and kick in investment or working capital.

Assuming that his dad is an investor then he will think beyond the football club. But the brand and the hundreds of millions United fans. I don't think they will buy it for future favours. There is all sorts of property development projects eg sports amusement parks etc they can spinoff.

Then buying the United club and the usage of global brand for 8billion ain't expensive.

Fair enough. However one question. If its feasable don't you think that Woodward (ie the sponsorship guru) wouldn't have thought about this before?

 

[sglowrider]

Fair enough. However one question. If its feasable don't you think that Woodward (ie the sponsorship guru) wouldn't have thought about this before?

You know you develop plans based on your budget. The idea of making Manchester united closer to our daily lives is already happening if you look at the app. Higher level of fan engagement. But as I suggested earlier, build mini-OT in a dozen key locations around the world?

But imagine what the United team in Mayfair could dream of if they were given 100million quid to play with instead of 5million annually for fan engagement.

Different ideas and stratospheres.

Plus the various partners and access available to the Mayfair team? From Qatar airways to BEIN to the Thani-related property developers? It will give them something different to those in Dubai.qatar is behind their gulf neighbours when it comes to property development.

It's like buying and owning the McDonald's master franchise for the world.

 

[AlPistacho]

It's the coke of football after all.

Considering the come down after SAF retired I agree

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I won't take the piss and undermine their hard work by posting anything here, but if anyone has the new UWS mag that came out yesterday read the part about Avram Glazer in it. Absolute scum.

 

[McTerminator]

Watch the interview. It’s very revealing. Not surprised that Whitwell is selectively quoting parts.
1) He doesn’t like football
2) His children do, they often tell him to invest in a football team. He doesn’t do things for PR/Image.
3) He only invests in things that add value to the either the company, the customer, or his family.
4) Part of his legacy he wants to leave something that his children can work on together and set as an example for the people of Qatar about “working together”

So 2 plus 3 plus 4 = could equal 9 but only for the right price due to the fact that he’s not mega wealthy and he has strong business principles. His wealth is probably £10-20b range, his advantage would probably be access to %0 loans from an Islamic bank

Also worth noting he was against the WC in Qatar because he thought it was too much money. But now it’s over he thinks it was good for the country and the fans. This is key.. he’s seen the effect of football/sport.

My concerns. He seems like a qualified guy. But I have no idea about his son, and he said “children” we’ve seen often children with daddies money tend not to be the brightest. And even when working on a family business siblings often have disagreements. I’d want to be certain they will run it like City and be hands off.

You had me nodding until the bold…

I know what you mean but still!

 

[devilish]

You know you develop plans based on your budget. The idea of making Manchester united closer to our daily lives is already happening if you look at the app. Higher level of fan engagement. But as I suggested earlier, build mini-OT in a dozen key locations around the world?

But imagine what the United team in Mayfair could dream of if they were given 100million quid to play with instead of 5million annually for fan engagement.

Different ideas and stratospheres.

Plus the various partners and access available to the Mayfair team? From Qatar airways to BEIN to the Thani-related property developers? It will give them something different to those in Dubai.qatar is behind their gulf neighbours when it comes to property development.

It's like buying and owning the McDonald's master franchise for the world.

How can Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani afford this (+ United, the stadium, the training grounds and strengthening the squad) on his own though? Cause the initial investment is astronomical.

 

[Chief123]

The biggest problem Glazers have which is obstructing their desire to stick around is the fact they simply can’t sell more than 18% of Man Utd and still keep control of the club.

The fact we need at least £1bn for a new stadium as well as all the other costs to training ground upgrade, new players… the Glazers would have to sell that 18% for a club value of close to £10 billion to raise anything like the funds that will be needed. They are pretty much screwed with only having 69% of the club if they have a desire to retain control.

I can’t see anything other than a full sale.

 

[AlPistacho]

You had me nodding until the bold…

I know what you mean but still!

Haha, I even shook my head as I wrote that bit.

 

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

The biggest problem Glazers have which is obstructing their desire to stick around is the fact they simply can’t sell more than 18% of Man Utd and still keep control of the club.

The fact we need at least £1bn for a new stadium as well as all the other costs to training ground upgrade, new players… the Glazers would have to sell that 18% for a club value of close to £10 billion to raise anything like the funds that will be needed. They are pretty much screwed with only having 69% of the club if they have a desire to retain control.

I can’t see anything other than a full sale.

Although I agree with you about the full sale, it isn’t strictly accurate that they can only sell 18% and keep control. Because of the A/B share split, they can keep around 10% of the shares and maintain control. They don’t need the traditional 51% because their shares carry 10x the votes of other shares.

 

[sglowrider]

How can Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani afford this (+ United, the stadium, the training grounds and strengthening the squad) on his own though? Cause the initial investment is astronomical.

That's where the foundation comes in. The members of the foundation will be those who want to use the united franchise who will contribute to the foundation.

They could even run an auction between the property developers to the foundation. They could have access to the landbank around OT too.

Fyi the value of the coke brand is over 98 billion bucks.

 

[Chief123]

Although I agree with you about the full sale, it isn’t strictly accurate that they can only sell 18% and keep control. Because of the A/B share split, they can keep around 10% of the shares and maintain control. They don’t need the traditional 51% because their shares carry 10x the votes of other shares.

Ah yes of course. Nevertheless, I just don’t see the finances working in order for them to stay and keep control.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

The biggest problem Glazers have which is obstructing their desire to stick around is the fact they simply can’t sell more than 18% of Man Utd and still keep control of the club.

The fact we need at least £1bn for a new stadium as well as all the other costs to training ground upgrade, new players… the Glazers would have to sell that 18% for a club value of close to £10 billion to raise anything like the funds that will be needed. They are pretty much screwed with only having 69% of the club if they have a desire to retain control.

I can’t see anything other than a full sale.

You're right i'm sure but even if they could easily sell some stock to raise the funds for the club, they wouldn't

It would be like asking 6 dossers who've been sat on their arses collecting dole money for 18 years straight to surrender some of their dole money to chip in for some new equipment

 

[Ottawa MLS Fan]

Ah yes of course. Nevertheless, I just don’t see the finances working in order for them to stay and keep control.

I really hope you’re right. The only thing worse that the Glazers staying would be them staying, supported by Elliott or some equivalent fund.

 

[devilish]

That's where the foundation comes in. The members of the foundation will be those who want to use the united franchise who will contribute to the foundation.

They could even run an auction between the property developers to the foundation. They could have access to the landbank around OT too.

Fyi the value of the coke brand is over 98 billion bucks.

Please excuse my ignorance but

a- why can't the Glazers do that themselves?
b- will we be able to go toe to toe against City/Newcastle with such strategy?

 

[MTF]

That's where the foundation comes in. The members of the foundation will be those who want to use the united franchise who will contribute to the foundation.

They could even run an auction between the property developers to the foundation. They could have access to the landbank around OT too.

Fyi the value of the coke brand is over 98 billion bucks.

Maybe maybe maybe one day, in the distant future, a sports team might have the same value as a consumer goods brands. When billions of people each on average consumer a few $ worth of their product daily. Right now and for the past 20 years the monetization of sports fandom is much lower. For now it's really not a worthy comparison.

 

[sglowrider]

Please excuse my ignorance but

a- why can't the Glazers do that themselves?
b- will we be able to go toe to toe against City/Newcastle with such strategy?

A. The glazers don't have that sort of cash not access to such an ecosystem.
B. Look at their fan base compared to ours? Also none of them have a BEiN.

 

[Tarrou]

Did you watch the full 30 minute interview? I posted last night, after watching it & before the athlete today that he will not overpay for Man Utd. It’s possible to listen to a man speak and answer questions for 30 minutes and understand a lot about him.

He was the man in charge of the Qatar investment fund. He invested trillions for Qatar. When dealing with trillions, commission of 1% will give someone a personal wealth of £10-£20b now realise he probably received more than 1% commissions, plus he has access to 0% loans. Even the Athletic previously described him as “too rich for comfort “

how did he invest trillions? the AUM is less than one trillion even today isn’t it?

 

[MiamiSpartan]

Did you watch the full 30 minute interview? I posted last night, after watching it & before the athlete today that he will not overpay for Man Utd. It’s possible to listen to a man speak and answer questions for 30 minutes and understand a lot about him.

He was the man in charge of the Qatar investment fund. He invested trillions for Qatar. When dealing with trillions, commission of 1% will give someone a personal wealth of £10-£20b now realise he probably received more than 1% commissions, plus he has access to 0% loans. Even the Athletic previously described him as “too rich for comfort “

According to the Financial Times, Forbes has Sheikh Hamad's (Jassim's dad) wealth at £1.2bn. Jassim runs the QIB, which has revenue of less than 2bn. Where is Jassim or his dad getting tens of billions from? They don't have the personal fortune to even consider this.

So where does the money in this "foundation" come from? Well, the QIB's largest shareholder is the QIA, the sovereign wealth fund, and which Hamad used to be in charge of. Additionally, Hamad is, of course, the former Prime Minister

It's abundantly clear that this bid is a state backed/orchestrated bid. Suggesting it isn't is like saying that the PIF is not the Saudi state, and even they are now admitting in court that they are.