Any link to this FT assessment? Sounds like bollocks to me
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Ok it comes from this article but they use different methods to get different valuations:
https://www.ft.com/content/b41bdc29-3a1f-4ff6-9872-f0625c505b46
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Club Sale | It’s done!
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Any link to this FT assessment? Sounds like bollocks to me
Edit:
Ok it comes from this article but they use different methods to get different valuations:
https://www.ft.com/content/b41bdc29-3a1f-4ff6-9872-f0625c505b46
As other posters have said, a business is valued accounting for assets, liabilities, revenue and other factors. This valuation will include any debt.
When bids are submitted this will usually be on the basis of, by way of loose example only, the valuation and/or an EBITDA calculation (I don’t value businesses so don’t hold me to this part).
The parties will then agree on structure of payments, deferred consideration, security for deferred consideration and so on.
However, to get back to the point the valuation will include the debt so normally the price will be reduced accordingly, or the debt will be redeemed by the Seller on completion.
The Glazers could refuse to sell unless someone pays full value plus the debt on top, but per my original statement that is not normally how business works.
That said, this is not a normal business so all bets are off which is why I asked what you were basing your claim on.
I know the valuation includes the debt, why wouldn't it? I'm not sure what you're disagreeing on.
The debt is on the club so obviously the price has been reduced accordingly.
If the new buyer wants to remove the debt it's an arbitrary distinction really. They are paying for it one way or another. But as with the Ratcliffe bid it's been reported they won't remove it (and won't add to it either).
I thought you were trying to argue that the business would be bought for (let’s say $6bn) with the debt in place and disregarding the impact the debt should have had on the businesses value (assuming that the value of the business accounting for debt was lower I.e. $5.5bn), as a matter of course.
I was merely pointing out that the Buyer would not normally pay the value of the debt ‘twice’, but on that it seems we are agreed so perhaps I misread your original posts.
If we want to try and force the issue then that needs to happen now, really. No point waiting until they've said no to the offers and they've gone elsewhere.
In all honesty though, I've never been convinced they actually care about what the fans do or say. I think getting games called off was an inconvenience to those actually running the club, below the Glazers. But we've been protesting for 15-20 years now and they're still here. So they've ever done is release PR, sign players etc and it's pacified the supporters. The only reason they'll leave now is because there's big investors looking to buy a football club and it may therefore make sense, especially with the investment required in the club.
We’ve just got our wires crossed then, no worries
hopefully there is some news to discuss soon
Lots of speculation here are some facts/insight that might shed some light about the Qatar bid and what to expect.
Just saw an interview with the father of the guy who bided for United on Bloomberg with David Rubenstein.
Recorded before the bid was made. First time I’ve seen him or heard him speak. Football was only mentioned once. Sounds like a very grounded person. He’s only doing it for his son, I don’t think he will overpay and it’s very likely there will be only one extra “take it or leave it bid”, doubt it will be £6b. He is a very sensible guy. I implore to watch it and you’ll see why 1) They won’t overpay 2) if they do get it it will be different to PSG.
His an investor who places value on adding value. When in charge of the Qatar Investment thing he was the guy who did the deals for the Shard, Barclays and others. So it’s feasible he is is a very very wealthy individual, he invested trillions for Qatar so his personal wealth could easily be £15b plus.
When asked about football. He said he doesn’t like it. But his kids often ask “why don’t you invest in a team”. He said he doesn’t like doing things for advertising or just for the image and only does it if it brings value… up to then it seemed like he wouldn’t really be interested in a football team but then he added if an investment adds value to his family he’ll do it. Near the end he said. He wants to leave something for his children to work together, and leave as an example for the people of Qatar.
He was against the WC in Qatar but thinks it ended up being good.
Just saw an interview with the father of the guy who bided for United on Bloomberg with David Rubenstein.
Recorded before the bid was made. First time I’ve seen him or heard him speak. Football was only mentioned once. Sounds like a very grounded person. He’s only doing it for his son, I don’t think he will overpay and it’s very likely there will be only one extra “take it or leave it bid”, doubt it will be £6b. He is a very sensible guy. I implore to watch it and you’ll see why 1) They won’t overpay 2) if they do get it it will be different to PSG.
His an investor who places value on adding value. When in charge of the Qatar Investment thing he was the guy who did the deals for the Shard, Barclays and others. So it’s feasible he is is a very very wealthy individual, he invested trillions for Qatar so his personal wealth could easily be £15b plus.
When asked about football. He said he doesn’t like it. But his kids often ask “why don’t you invest in a team”. He said he doesn’t like doing things for advertising or just for the image and only does it if it brings value… up to then it seemed like he wouldn’t really be interested in a football team but then he added if an investment adds value to his family he’ll do it. Near the end he said. He wants to leave something for his children to work together, and leave as an example for the people of Qatar.
He was against the WC in Qatar but thinks it ended up being good.
I think they are in their due diligence stage (after getting the financial details) now. According to Ben Jacobs it will be probably a couple of weeks of deep dive before they present the 1st official offer.
So we have gone from delirium (from bidders' announcement) to moral outrage/virtue signalling to degrees of linkages/inability to buy out 100% to now accounting rules.
We need something to keep us going for the next two weeks.
Any suggestions? Full kit wanker? Brexit tycoons? Potential Arnold replacement?
Link?
Saw it just now on Bloomberg TV. His old interviews are on YouTube but not this one. Think this was 2 weeks before the bid was submitted according to the text that appeared.
full episode should become available here soon. Currently only snippets which won’t give much insight and focus mostly on other stuff.
https://www.bloomberg.com/peer-to-peer
https://www.bloomberg.com/peer-to-peer
Shares are listed. It'll have to be public, unless its only the Glazer portion that's on offer for sale.
The Glazer's can only sell their own shares, the shares on the NYSE are non-voting as far as I'm aware and aren't theirs, they are the ones they sold to raise capital
Since the listed shares form a minority holding, any acquisition of shares beyond a certain percent (often 50% but depends) will require them to compulsorily make a full takeover bid. Glazers did the same when they took over and that's when some people refused to sell them their shares and instead let it go worthless and framed it as a memorabilia in their walls.
Here's one of many threads on that:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/glazer-has-enough-man-utd-shares-to-force-fans-to-sell.80059/
I was in school back then but I distinctly remember these posts since I followed these events in redcafe with great curiosity.
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I'm expecting Qatar to gain full control. I just have a feeling. Also occured to me that marouane fellani cost just 4 million less that Juan Sebastian Veron. (24 mil Vs 28 roughly). Sorry for the ot.
Cheers!
He certainly looks different. Looks to have lost some weight and looking a lot more trimmer.
Something does not add up. Why would the sheik blow most of his wealth on one son's happiness? I think the idea is for them to buy United, then put it private only to then sell it to Qatar once the time is right. They will get the profit + the new emir gratitude while the Emir get his hands on united
Do you think it wouldn’t be subject to the scrutiny of the authorities if it’s a completely private sale?
I don't know. However its perfectly legal for QSI to buy a minority stake in manchester united. If they become a minority shareholder at PSG then its perfectly legal for them to buy United outright. Alternatively they might set a similar structure to what ineos and red bull has
I have said it before, I suspect they will use the Club as a centrepiece of various other regeneration or property development projects, Legoland-like parks. You know the GCC area, they love their property developments. They could do twin projects -- around the OT area (using United's land bank) and twin it with what's going on in Qatar -- using migrant labour no doubt!!
He franchises the United brand to other Qatari organisations -- they pay him billions in return. Thats part of his revenue stream/capital for buying United. His dad from the interview sounds like a business guy so this is what he would expect.
Being so far away -- and the frustration of not being at OT for every match -- and knowing they have a huge global audience -- 115 million just for the Barca game but only 75,000 at OT, he will put money into bringing the virtual OT experience to the hundreds of millions of United fans. They are already doing this with ex-players' visits. Why not virtualise this for every match everywhere on a permanent basis? They attempted to do this but with very small investment. Imagine watching United in a mini-OT at your local United 'clubhouse' with the sounds and atmosphere streamed into the location. Holographc appearances of the manager, players or the gimp from MUTV right in-front of you?
Qatar is both a broadcaster and content rights owner of the PL, CL, EL, Serie A, la Liga, Ligue 1 to MENA --- and France, the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Turkey, Hong Kong, Singapore, Brunei, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines and Thailand and Egypt. Satellite to internet infrastructure, existing relationships with existing broadcasting partners, authorities etc. It's already set up & working. The only fear is we get the cnut Richard Keys doing out in-house broadcasting.
Regardless that's some serious infrastructure MUTV can leverage. Bringing United closer to you -- and integrated into your lives daily. You just have to look at the United app and you can see what they are already trying to do -- but on a shoestring budget. Imagine what they can do if they have millions.
Fellaini scored way more for Manchester United than Veron.
I don't know about VR football, think we are way off that, but I do find it incredible, that every PL game is available in South Africa, Malaysia, Singapore, etc... and 90+% in America yet the country it is played in is a fraction... I understand that they don't want to affect match day crowds, but seriously if I cannot get to OT and there are many occasions where it is impossible I have to stream content from the other side of the world if I want to watch it.... madness! there surely must be a change where all games are made available even if there is a basic package as per what we have now and the rest are available PPV
Tear down or revamp OT and bring the old seats to the various United outlets.
That should do it
Veron 11 in 82
Fellaini 22 in 177
Veron had a higher goal scoring ratio.
Now back to the Glazers selling up.
Link on apple podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/in-the-city/id1623682235?i=1000602415616
Hmm, another bidder lurking in the background.
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There could be. And I'm sure there is.
However, a part of the takeover will be the PR game that is played in the media, by the prospective buyers. Staying quite for so long could lose them ground with the fans.
I personally think at this stage that new bidders will be looking to collaborate to form an offer rather than offering themselves.
The disadvantages of leaving bidding this long after the soft deadline far outweigh the advantages.
I’ve watched this interview. Very little was about football but you can understand a lot about him.
It’s funny that the journalist watched the same interview as me and just posted the same conclusion as me about the father not being the the type to overpay. But he still can’t see why a man involved in trilllions of $ worth of investments won’t have made £15b plus and must be a state bid?
People can laugh. Everything adds to this just being a Roman Abramovic type wealth guy who is doing it for his children. He even said at the end of of interview , which the athletic won’t mention, he wants to leave something for his children to work on together and set as s as example for the people of Qatar.
That’s not the take from that article.
You haven’t read the article.
Is there any chance this is true?
I suspect the Qatari will put another final take-it-or-leave-it offer this month and walk away once it's rejected. FSG tried to swindle them and they just pulled the plug. The Glazers are pricing the club out of the market as it stands. 6bn GBP? Yeah, right, keep dreaming, lads.
It’s widely believed that the money for the deal is coming from his father. This is effectively posturing from from the Qatari side to say they won’t overpay. But it could be more harshly worded which will give comfort to the glazers.
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