Club Sale | It’s done!

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If they want £4 billion for their 69 % then someone is going to have to go up to £5.7 billion (ish), so quite a way to go from £4.5 billion then, like the cost of a new stadium sort of money!

Must be some middle ground to be reached, but it's not like they're going to agree to that much just because the Glazers want it.
 
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Leaving for a night shift feckin bored after reading pages of bollox about state backed or state funded.
Get back home this morning. Same shit, about whether 17% is enough... Then I stumble on this "gem" post.

Mate, just focus on football. Write about footie. Feck politics. And if you find some balcan players for transfer thread nerds, just do it. They will love you. I have one. Azeez Osenni. He is a Kante clone. Coming from Spartak Trnava. Will do a report about this midfielder shortly.
Hmm… this post was a piss take and wum post, did it’s job quite well, as you can see. Second I don’t care about politics one bit, that’s why I wrote “can’t wait to be state owned”. Unfortunately the caf needs white text to understand this.
 
They have 2bil in cash reserves, and they can also borow. Its done. Brothers want to stay, they are gonna bring Elliott on board. Sooner rather than later, Elliott will eat them alive. Then, in 3 years, when Glazer brothers are totally fecked, Elliott will take over 69% of shares - for just 2-2,5 bilion.

offering 4/1 to anyone who wants to bet on the Glazers staying
 
No, they aren't planning on investing money in the club.
Not only is Radcliffe not clearing the Glazers debt, he is purchasing the club with more debt, so the budget for the stadium and training facilities is less than zero as he'll need to extract more money from the club than even the Glazers do to make it financially viable.

This sums up the ineos bid. 100%
 
He says the Qataris wanting 100% is strange and there is no reason to buy 100%. How stupid this statement is. The Qataris wanting 100% is logical, because them investing in the club from their own money and only owning 69% will make the other 31% get a free ride. Why would they give free money to the other 31%, how is that difficult to comprehend?

Yeah, there's plenty of good reasons to own 100%. For example not having to report your financials publicly every quarter. And I'm not saying they are wanting to cook the books, but it's a lot harder to do if you're public that's for sure.
 
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Those parasites will only be satisfied until they’ve milked the club dry of every last penny. Of course they’re not satisfied with getting a huge return on their investment into the billions.

Absolute leeches. Like a fecking limpet clinging to a rock. Absolutely pathetic - cannot wait until they feck off for good.

Abramovich gave Chelsea away free, wipe out his loans to the club and ensure the new owners have Chelsea long term plan in place.

On the other hand, the fecking shameless greedy Glazers who put in zero of their own money and is not satisfy with 4.5B profits after milked us dry for nearly 2 decades of 1.5B.

Hundred of millions of fans worldwide who made Glazers rich means nothing to these greedy American leeches. The fecking Glazers don't appreciate the fans at all, without the fans they're nothing.
 
He says the Qataris wanting 100% is strange and there is no reason to buy 100%. How stupid this statement is. The Qataris wanting 100% is logical, because them investing in the club from their own money and only owning 69% will make the other 31% get a free ride. Why would they give free money to the other 31%, how is that difficult to comprehend?
Except that's not how things work, they can offer up a Rights Issue with their bank as the guarantor and increase their holdings. Say they value the club at 5b and as controlling shareholders they say they need another 2b for the ground and operations they can fund the whole two billion if other shareholders aren't interested and maybe end up owning 80% or just fund it pro rata and sea with the minority shareholders later on.

He is right in that the Qatari don't have to buy out the 31% on the NYSE right away. They can keep them around as they can't influence operations either way, run the club as they like and pick up extra shares, in small quantities, when the dust has settled and especially in the next couple of years where our financials will be horrible reading as the company recovers from COVID inspired losses.
 
For what it's worth, Qatar are willing to get heads of state involved to accomplish their aims. They got Macron to beg Mbappe to stay at Qatar and bought PSG to curry favour with Platini and Sarkozy for the world cup.

If Qatar really want United they'll get it.
 
Abramovich gave Chelsea away free, wipe out his loans to the club and ensure the new owners have Chelsea long term plan in place.

On the other hand, the fecking shameless greedy Glazers who put in zero of their own money and is not satisfy with 4.5B profits after milked us dry for nearly 2 decades of 1.5B.

Hundred of millions of fans worldwide who made Glazers rich means nothing to these greedy American leeches. The fecking Glazers don't appreciate the fans at all, without the fans they're nothing.
Do you believe anything of what you wrote?

Abramovich was forced to sell and got a deal in relation to his other assets in the UK.
 
I just watched it all as I wait for my partner to get out the fecking bath

Basically the two serious bidders (Jassim and ineos) valuations of the club are way below what the Glazers want. So far below that they aren’t even ready to negotiate yet. So Glazers/Raine want more bidders to come to the table to drive the price up. Or hope the two current bidders raise their valuations enough to be able to negotiate from there. Essentially a bit of a standoff

According to his own numbers, the current bid gets them 3.2bn, and they want 4bn. Now I don't know about anyone else but to me if that's the delta after the first bid, there isn't going to be much issue getting a deal done here. The only real question is how close to the full asking price will the Glazers get. And my guess is, pretty close.
 
No, they aren't planning on investing money in the club.

Not only is Radcliffe not clearing the Glazers debt, he is purchasing the club with more debt, so the budget for the stadium and training facilities is less than zero as he'll need to extract more money from the club than even the Glazers do to make it financially viable.

I am not a big fan on Brexit Jimmy but the debt will move on Ineos
 
No, they aren't planning on investing money in the club.

Not only is Radcliffe not clearing the Glazers debt, he is purchasing the club with more debt, so the budget for the stadium and training facilities is less than zero as he'll need to extract more money from the club than even the Glazers do to make it financially viable.

you surely don't know what their plans or budget are, seeing as nobody does
 
According to his own numbers, the current bid gets them 3.2bn, and they want 4bn. Now I don't know about anyone else but to me if that's the delta after the first bid, there isn't going to be much issue getting a deal done here. The only real question is how close to the full asking price will the Glazers get. And my guess is, pretty close.
Its not a coincidence that Avram the Rat was in Qatar in December and we have them alone from the ME gang bidding. He worked this deal and the Qatari know what the Glazers want but they couldn't offer it at first time of trying as they had to see what everyone else valued the club at and they were sort of right.

Now its brinkmanship but the Qatari overplayed their hand, perhaps in the knowledge that they could afford to pay whatever the Glazers end up demanding, so they have to up their bid which I think they will do by just converting that amount into an offer for the majority shareholding owned by the Glazers. Its unlikely that they will walk away after all the noise they have made but you never know.

Regardless of what we think of them, I think the Glazers are right to hold out for more. This is the world's most storied sporting institution and the possibilities are endless - just imagine what they could do with MUTV if they invested in great content and set up a streaming channel based on ideas like All or Nothing, pre and post game interactive chats and features on current and past players or managers.
 
Regardless of what we think of them, I think the Glazers are right to hold out for more.

Yeah, absolutely. They would be insane to accept the first bid. And they'll get more for sure.

The only thing that hasn't gone well for the Glazers so far is there is only one state bidding. They know SJR isn't going to push the price up or get into a bidding war, so his bid is close to useless.

The only way to drive up the Qatar bid is to use the possibility of them not selling as leverage. Nothing else is gonna get them to the price point they want. But they'll get it.
 
I am not a big fan on Brexit Jimmy but the debt will move on Ineos
Have I missed some communication that he plans to clear the debt? Because last I saw the message was very deliberately worded to say no “fresh debt” would be placed on the club, so the existing debt is going nowhere.

Also no word on funding of the new debt and what would be removed from the club on that front.
 
Do you believe anything of what you wrote?

Abramovich was forced to sell and got a deal in relation to his other assets in the UK.

I know he was sanctioned but he put in a team to ensure the bidders have long term Chelsea plan in place.

What deal he got for other assets? It was not widely reported.
 
Where does it say that? Nobody's reported that.

It was reported somewhere, but I don't recall where sorry.

But anyway it would be impossible to fund a bid for the club by loading debt onto the club. The revenues aren't big enough.
 
Where does it say that? Nobody's reported that.

It's been widely reported that Ineos will take any new debt. Quite frankly I cannot see United being able to take any more debt. That’s why the Glazers are selling
 
It was reported somewhere, but I don't recall where sorry.

But anyway it would be impossible to fund a bid for the club by loading debt onto the club. The revenues aren't big enough.

I'm not talking about another leveraged buy out. I'm talking about £500m debt that's already against the club. INEOS has no intention of clearing that - which makes sense, why would they clear a debt £500m on behalf of all the shareholders, when they only own 70% of the club.
 
Have I missed some communication that he plans to clear the debt? Because last I saw the message was very deliberately worded to say no “fresh debt” would be placed on the club, so the existing debt is going nowhere.

Also no word on funding of the new debt and what would be removed from the club on that front.

You are right it's fresh debt. That is one of the reasons why I prefer the Qatar bid
 
It's been widely reported that Ineos will take any new debt. Quite frankly I cannot see United being able to take any more debt. That’s why the Glazers are selling
I'm not talking about another leveraged buy out. I'm talking about £500m debt that's already against the club. INEOS has no intention of clearing that - which makes sense, why would they clear a debt £500m on behalf of all the shareholders, when they only own 70% of the club.
 
I'm not talking about another leveraged buy out. I'm talking about £500m debt that's already against the club. INEOS has no intention of clearing that - which makes sense, why would they clear a debt £500m on behalf of all the shareholders, when they only own 70% of the club.

Ah I see, yeah. Sorry. I don't think they'll move that debt unless it becomes cheaper to do so in the future. And yeah, nobody has reported that they will.
 
The overarching point is, like a few of us have already made, there's no logical way that the Glazers will remain.

Can they? Of course. Will they? Logic says no.
 


Those who think the Glazers will stay need to look at this. Typical negotiation stance. They're trying to get a better price.
 
Ah I see, yeah. Sorry. I don't think they'll move that debt unless it becomes cheaper to do so in the future. And yeah, nobody has reported that they will.

There was a great discussion about this on the thread last week, but the general gist is...

At the moment, interest rates are volatile, so any large scale lending is risky. In my job, we are being told that investors are becoming more risk averse.

Taking a large scale, long term loan now would not be advised by any business. I note Ineos are not removing the current debt, just taking any new borrowing through Ineos rather than the club. But the current debt is about to become a lot more expensive as well. This is why I think the Glazers are choosing now to leave. The world since 2008 has been built on really low interest rates on loans, but the next 10 years are going to be different. (Interest rates have been close to zero since 2008, but are between 6-8% now).
 
Yeah, absolutely. They would be insane to accept the first bid. And they'll get more for sure.

The only thing that hasn't gone well for the Glazers so far is there is only one state bidding. They know SJR isn't going to push the price up or get into a bidding war, so his bid is close to useless.

The only way to drive up the Qatar bid is to use the possibility of them not selling as leverage. Nothing else is gonna get them to the price point they want. But they'll get it.
Right they will be insane to accept the first offer, they should and will drag this one out in the knowledge that the eventual buyer wants a summer window to make an impression.

You are right that with one serious binder they dont have much leverage other than to say we are staying. Puts them in a tough spot because the one big bidder they have could also start playing games and make a decoy offer for, say, Spurs which could send the fans into a hysteric revolt.

They desperately need another big gun to come in but the fact that none has so far does show how overpriced the club is considering its sporting and financial achievements in the last decade.
 
I just get the feeling the Qataris will not want to lose face as they’ve been so vocal. It’s gonna be a point of pride and I think they will give the Glazers what they want.

But if they walk away they will never come back. And that will scare the Glazers more. End of the day they will have to sell. The non-engaged members of the family want their cash right now.
 
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Where does it say that? Nobody's reported that.
It’s implied that Ineos would give Manchester United to pay off the loan by taking out a loan for themselves. United would not be debt free but the parent company half a billion, however Ineos would service that debt and it’s interest payments.whose to say that Two years into running the club the 500m would be repaid in a 10 year plan at £50m per year interest free whilst Ineos service the interest payments. The three options are simple ;

Option A. The Glaziers Stay and the £500m current debt becomes £2.5bn with a new working capital of £2bn, we update, not rebuild the stadium for £1bn, Spend £500m on existing transfer payments and new players and use £500m as a working capital to service the new debt, potential interest payments of £200m per year so it’s a two year high risk gamble, if the club does well and wins a PL or CL they can potentially grow the revenue to £700-750m, make £100m profit by cutting player salaries etc and buy them maybe 3-4 years while the stadium is revamped and renovated to probably 85,000 all seater which will also grow match day revenue by 2026. If it fails the hedge fund will take over the club and sell to the highest bidder so they recoup their capital investment.

Option B - SJR/INEOS they buy only the 69.9% b voting shares for £4bn which gives SJR control of the club, the debt is part of this deal in a further £500m transfer of debt from Manchester United PLC to INEOS, the club is kept on the stock market. United are debt free on paper but will owe the parent company a sizeable fee if the club was ever sold. SJR invests a further £1.5bn which they have arranged from various banks in America to redevelop the stadium and player investment. INEOS are the parent company and United would trade debt free without dividends being taken out, using their own profit to reinvest in the club. In the future if United were sold to another buyer, this capital investment of £2bn by INEOS would have to be repaid first before the club could be sold. (In other words the club new owner would have to add £2bn to the price of the purchase !)

Option C - Qatari owners full purchase of the club, meaning after paying £4.5bn for 69.9% of b shares they would then buy the existing public shares to take the club off the stock market and make United a privately owned club. No longer controlled by stock market rules. They would potentially pay another £1bn for this on top of the £4.5bn offered to the Glaziers. When and if they agree ownership then they would immediately settle the clubs debts of £500m and then deposit a potentially £2.5bn as a working capital for stadium relocation, redevelopment, area redevelopment and player sales for Mens, Youth and woman's teams. We would probably see a new state of the art 100,00 stadium and a 25,000 second stadium for the youth and woman's team. The true cost to the Qatari bid is probably £9bn of their own money without any borrowing or burdening the club with debt and interest payments.

The reality is the glaziers want more and are using Chelsea as a measuring stick, forgetting the most important difference, Abrahamovic had to write off his £1bn loan that Chelsea owed him so this made the purchase all the more attractive to bidders, the club was relatively debt free because the Government made it so, United and the Glaziers are not debt free, we owe at £375m in amortised player transfer fees up to 2027 as well as the £500m debt attached to the club. So by asking for £5bn they are actually asking for nearly £6bn and no one is paying that so we have a classic stale mate.

SJR will not increase his bid, the Qatari may not want to lose face and possibly make make a final bid of £4.95bn as a take it or leave it offer! That’s why this will run and run to the summer, nothing is ever easy when you support United?
 
If Qatar are determined to own the club, then they will own the club, its a matter of time, everything else is brinkmanship and noise.
 
So £1.2 billion less than Chelsea ? In what world are Man Utd worth less than Chelsea ?
 
1.3b is an absurd figure
Without reading the article, the only way I can see them coming up with that type of number is if they are looking at United in the same way you look at an ordinary business.

If it where just revenue Vs outgoings a football clubs profit is relatively low.

But as we know football isn't an ordinary business and and the United brand without the tangibles is worth a fortune on its own.
 
He says the Qataris wanting 100% is strange and there is no reason to buy 100%. How stupid this statement is. The Qataris wanting 100% is logical, because them investing in the club from their own money and only owning 69% will make the other 31% get a free ride. Why would they give free money to the other 31%, how is that difficult to comprehend?

Yeah didn't Musk just buy 100% of twitter rather than just enough for majority control? It's not that uncommon.

I think the reasoning is that as long as you aren't private you have a fiduciary duty to the shareholders, even if you hold the majority, therefore things like not paying dividends or letting the club spend its own money could be deemed not in the best interests of the shareholders
 
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