Thank you for this post.
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
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Yeah people are completely deluding themselves now. There is also no point in discussing this nonstop, because people won’t want to budge from their stance that this deal is perhaps one of the worst outcomes for the club, when the Glazers were really struggling to get external investment in and would have been a far worse negotiating position in a couple of years time with this trajectory. Now, they get a billion dollars, additional investment, while still maintaining absolute majority and having no path to giving that up.In the immediacy no, of course not [you know that’s not what I meant though but disingenuous is the flavour of the day] but would a full takeover removing the debt with some investment address the incompetence of the Glazers better & affect FFP across the course of say the next 5 years more than this? Of course it does.
Right now we get someone coming round the house straightening the pictures on the wall whilst the actual infrastructure improvements will cost more than a mere $300mil whilst the Glazers get half a billion.
When’s the last time you saw one of the world’s more successful clubs celebrating ‘football structure’? You don’t cause it’s some overblown twaddle. Hiring experienced people to do jobs is par for the course, we’ve been run so badly people are happy that we’ll finally have the bare minimum.
‘A full takeover wouldn't affect FFP’
Well I look upon this partial stake in Manchester United positively.
It is clear that we can not keep doing the same thing and expecting better results.
Something has to change.
And this is certainly a big change, at least on the football side.
So I welcome this change. Although many will have a different view.
It is clear that we can not keep doing the same thing and expecting better results.
Something has to change.
And this is certainly a big change, at least on the football side.
So I welcome this change. Although many will have a different view.
Unless the numbers quoted by the media and United are incorrect, that post is far removed from the actual facts. SJR gets 25% of the club and voting rights. He has no vetos (none that has been declared so far), no majority on the Board, no control of funds, and no clear path to ownership. That poster got his numbers mixed up and it’s laughable to say that the Glazers would effectively be giving up their control for a billion pounds when they rejected 5 from Jassim for the whole lot.
Doesn't Jim now hold the most shares as an individual? If things go to a vote, others outside of Rat 1 (Joel) and Rat 2 (Avram) might side with Jim.
If it meant we built something with longer, more sustained success, absolutely. It's likely we're going to finish around 8th this season anyway.
Exactly.
They rejected 5bn from Jassim.
So what were the other options apart from the current one.
Raising objections isn’t moaning, I’m done bothering with the other side.
You struggle to talk about the SjR deal on its merits so go low aside it. If you can’t handle differences in opinion then forums aren’t for you lad.
Moaning about people moaning, funny that.
They’d get done by health and safety for a start when OT collapses!
Turkeys voting for Christmas mate.
The whole talk that this deal would come with a clear path to majority ownership went quiet the closer this got because it was never happening & now we have people saying, ‘so long as we’re successful the Glazers can stay’.
I maintain had this deal been put on the table a day after Glazers announced it would have been laughed out of town. What happened it’s a Qatar vs SjR war started in which anyone that questioned either side was told they were supporting the other.
I had some fool answer my questions on SjR with ‘is it cause you wanted Qatar’ in another thread. The way people have entrenched themselves to SjR is worrying, this is not a good deal but ‘it’s not sports washing’ which is apparently in this big old world the only other option
I will admit, I don't understand the arrangement. How can two owners with patently different objectives run significant aspects of the club independently of each other? You can't separate the football from the business side of things. A football club is in the business of football, you cannot separate the two.
The other thing, I was on board as long as there was a path to majority ownership. I am struggling to see how this makes sense for Ratcliffe. If he's successful, it makes it even less likely that the Glazers will go. When it becomes clear that there might be friction or the Glazers will not leave, SJR loses the incentive to invest.
Nothing with this club is straightforward.
The other thing, I was on board as long as there was a path to majority ownership. I am struggling to see how this makes sense for Ratcliffe. If he's successful, it makes it even less likely that the Glazers will go. When it becomes clear that there might be friction or the Glazers will not leave, SJR loses the incentive to invest.
Nothing with this club is straightforward.
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Absolute poppycock
I'm too lazy to read all that on Christmas morning. Is he buying 25% total or 25% of 69% - which is ~18%?
No, He will have 25% of the voting power. he is Buying 17% of the club in B shares and 8% in A shares. You got this wrong.
25% of the class B shaers ~17% of the club.
25% of the class A shaers ~8% of the club.
He has no control on the PLC board as he can not veto any major decision even after his investment in the form of 300m that might give another 5% of the club.
I think there’s good reason to be positive about the acquisition. I know we all want the Glazers gone but this is the next best thing IMO.
The root cause for our decade of struggles has been a complete lack of competent sporting leadership. We’ve had no long term plan and no one with football knowledge at the top of the hierarchy.
The recent Athletic piece lays out all of this in the most damning way possible. We’ve been run into the ground by sheer incompetence. Everything - from our (mostly) poor choices of managers to squad building - has been riddled with poor decision making.
How this was allowed in the first place, boggles my mind but Ratcliffe’s takeover of the sporting side is a giant step in the right direction.
There’s no guarantee he will be successful in restoring the club to its greatness but if there’s one thing he isn’t going to accept it’s unqualified management - hence Blanc, Brailsford, Ashworth being lined up. These are best in class and a solid foundation to build from.
I’m aware we won’t have a huge war chest available for transfers but I honestly don’t think we need one. We’ve tried to spend our way to success for a decade and it hasn’t worked as we haven’t had a plan of how we want to play or what team we’re trying to build. Also, something has been wrong at the top of the recruitment hierarchy since we’ve massively overspent on duds like Antony and missed out on talents like Haaland.
Going forward, we will have qualified people leading the club and that fills me with some confidence.
The root cause for our decade of struggles has been a complete lack of competent sporting leadership. We’ve had no long term plan and no one with football knowledge at the top of the hierarchy.
The recent Athletic piece lays out all of this in the most damning way possible. We’ve been run into the ground by sheer incompetence. Everything - from our (mostly) poor choices of managers to squad building - has been riddled with poor decision making.
How this was allowed in the first place, boggles my mind but Ratcliffe’s takeover of the sporting side is a giant step in the right direction.
There’s no guarantee he will be successful in restoring the club to its greatness but if there’s one thing he isn’t going to accept it’s unqualified management - hence Blanc, Brailsford, Ashworth being lined up. These are best in class and a solid foundation to build from.
I’m aware we won’t have a huge war chest available for transfers but I honestly don’t think we need one. We’ve tried to spend our way to success for a decade and it hasn’t worked as we haven’t had a plan of how we want to play or what team we’re trying to build. Also, something has been wrong at the top of the recruitment hierarchy since we’ve massively overspent on duds like Antony and missed out on talents like Haaland.
Going forward, we will have qualified people leading the club and that fills me with some confidence.
Again, the debt has no real detrimental impact on the footballing side, it doesn't affect FFP, just as a full takeover wouldn't affect FFP.In the immediacy no, of course not [you know that’s not what I meant though but disingenuous is the flavour of the day] but would a full takeover removing the debt with some investment address the incompetence of the Glazers better & affect FFP across the course of say the next 5 years more than this? Of course it does.
Right now we get someone coming round the house straightening the pictures on the wall whilst the actual infrastructure improvements will cost more than a mere $300mil whilst the Glazers get half a billion.
When’s the last time you saw one of the world’s more successful clubs celebrating ‘football structure’? You don’t cause it’s some overblown twaddle. Hiring experienced people to do jobs is par for the course, we’ve been run so badly people are happy that we’ll finally have the bare minimum.
‘A full takeover wouldn't affect FFP’
This news can only be a good thing for the club in my eyes, today os not the day for moaning.
Good thing I’m only raising reservations then.
Again, if you struggle to have a debate on a forum without moaning about people ‘moaning’ then perhaps debates aren’t for you.
When we reach the point where people are championing this charade with ‘the debt has no real detrimental impact on the footballing side’ which is a cleverly worded way around saying it has no impact cause we both know it does then I think it’s best I wish you a Merry Christmas.
Very good post. I am very excited about Sir Jim and Ineos coming in and taking control over the sporting side of the business. It really need a full overhaul and the best people involved.
Not going to be a quick fix, but I can predict that we will see positive changes soon enough.
As fans, would we even know what overhaul is required and who the best people are other than the hipsters' choices? Best people to do what?
If we do not know any of these requirements, how will we know what we need to look for and when?
Need longer than that, but we will be back at the top of football within the next 5 years.
More than half of us at the Caf want ETH sacked after 18 months, do you think we will have the patience to wait 5 years?
What you gonna do or for that matter any of us can do other than wait and hope things turn out for better with these changes .
It does have to be remembered that if Ratcliffe is injecting funds into the club, that will theoretically increase the value of the club at the same time. So even though the Glazers might have a lower percentage of the total shares, those shares might be worth more. As a quick and dirty example, at some point Darcie Glazer might be in a position where she can have either 10% of a club worth £10b, or 12% of a club worth £8b. I'm not sure if extra transfer funds would make enough of a difference for them to agree to it, but anything regarding the stadium, training grounds, etc might.
We already know he's not staying at 25% though. Within 12 months time he'll be up to about 29.5%, as he will be issued more shares as he invests the $300m. Reports are he's also got first refusal on any shares that any of the Glazer siblings sell, so he's obviously looking at taking more control as time goes on. There's a fair chance he'll never get 100% control, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if he's majority owner within 5 years.
Lovely to see such a well reasoned and thought out response.
You’ll be called out for moaning etc. too.
The same people will struggle to put together a convincing argument to support this deal other than ‘it’s not sports washing’. Ask them where the full ownership nonsense they dreamed up went & they’ll subvert to something else.
You’re not allowed to question this deal otherwise you are some pro-Qatar Disneyland member.
People got what they wanted, I hope it turns out great but it is on the face of it a marginal improvement at best. SjR literally can’t afford to mess up.
They're 2nd in the league aren't they? Not doing too bad.
Well for a start having an owner that actually cares and wants the best for the club. Hiring proper professionals in the correct position to run the club - a director of football to start.
Investing in the stadium and training facilities will improve the club, as well.
Success will be defined by how much we progress over the next number of years, it won’t be instant but there needs to be improvement and eventually winning the league and champions league.
We are by a distance the biggest club in England, but we have been ran horribly for the past decade. If we are ran properly, with the right people in the right places, it is inevitable that we will be successful in the long term.
Have a day off.
I’ve posted my thoughts on it so can’t be arsed repeating myself.
It is quite possible to see the positives in this deal even if it isn’t the best case scenario we all wanted.
To suggest this is pretty much the worse case scenario is utter bollocks though as anything which dilutes the Glazers, in both ownership and control, is a great thing for the club moving forward.
Supporters have the right to have a little optimism, even if there’s some caution attached.
The fact INEOS/SJR have already reached out to the supporters trust for open discussion in the New Year is another breath of fresh air so why not let people take the positives away from this huge change in club dynamics and for the first time in 18 years enjoy the Glazers taking a backwards step from Manchester United Football Club?
It'll be interesting how quickly the data gurus and DOF have an impact on the team performances.
I'm guessing tomorrow is too soon
I'm guessing tomorrow is too soon
It isn’t dreamed up, it was reported by multiple outlets at the time the 25% thing broke. At worst people are guilty of believing the media.
After all a full sale and the Glazers gone is what we all wanted. Why wouldn’t we believe that was still possible some way?
Some people here seem to treat the Glazers as a whole but we know for absolute certainty that some of them wanted out and to sell up. When it comes to voting we know how money can affect decisions and people. Who is to say that certain Glazers don't vote with Sir Jim just to spite those in the family that refused to sell. Sit Jim is the largest single share holder now if I've understood it and potentially buying out further individual Glazers one at a time would not surprise me in the slightest.
Overrated
Absolutely not the outcome I wanted, but let's be clear whatever my feelings are irrelevant to what actually happened, I've been on protests in Manchester for the best part of 18 years be that the 1st ones, the green and gold, the 1958 movement and so on and so on and ypu know what happened after each one Absolutely nothing, I thought after the green and gold that was going to be the one that did move them out, the atmosphere at the Milan CL game that season was febrile but they sat in Tampa or wherever the feck they call home and didn't care.
They got offers to cash out an investment they put virtually no money into for billions of pounds and they didn't want to sell, so while not ideal this is what's happened and I choose to look at the glass half full rather than half empty.
Let's be clear all the people saying turkeys voting for Christmas there is no vote here, we have no say the 1958 campaigned for a full sale only and this is what happened are fans happy no but can they be cautiously optimistic I think so.
With how poor the service has been, we need physical dominance from our #9. Clearly, we now have our solution.
If the football side of things are good/better then it’s fine keeping the Glazers. The big issue is that we’ve not been good enough on the pitch, we’ve been successful off it.
I'm with you on this.I'm happy.
On a very detailed level most of us would not know exactly what to do. On a more generic level it’s not that hard to imagine what needs fixing. We obviously got good and talented people working at our club right now, but we lack a proper structure and short/long term plan. Also we need the specialist people in key areas to lead the process.
Best people in business are usually people who got success at other businesses/clubs. They are often very successful on a particular aspect of the business.
Let’s see what Sir Jim and Ineos do. I got high hopes that we will see positive developments.
Of course Gary Neville had to take a negative spin on the news yesterday. I genuinely think he stopped supporting the club when he finished playing. Very odd bloke.
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