Is he feck
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
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Firstly, it's Ineos who's buying the stake, not Jim Ratcliffe.
And if you think a corporation is not making an investment with the aim of ultimately making a profit, then I'm sorry ,but I don't have a polite way of calling you deluded.
Another mass protest/pitch invasion will likely be on the way.
This is exactly how I feel. It's hard to accept it though especially considering what could have been. We were firmly at the top of the pyramid as the game was becoming more global and widely popular. We captured the imagination of the first generation of international fans. But alas, they bought us as a cash-cow and have been milking us since then. They will continue to milk this cow till there is nothing left, at which point they will probably sell to the highest bidder.
This is so wrong. A prestigious sporting institution shouldn't have to meet this fate. I would be completely fine if this was caused my our own mismanagement or financial mistakes but suffering through this with both hands tied behind our backs is unacceptable.
Maybe the fault lies with us, being so emotionally attached to a capital asset owned by a corporate raider.
They are still going to be here and with overall control.
If it was a vanity project, he would be buying it himself, with his own fortune.
He is not, Ineos is buying us.
You claiming that Nice are a disaster and exaggerating every bad thing they've done whilst not even mentioning or acknowledging the positives but on the other hand claiming PSG are a well-run club is just the most insane bias I've ever seen, and it's complete horseshit.
Also, look at how much PSG have spent on transfer fees and wages since 2011 compared to every other team that's played in Ligue 1 in the last 12 years. It's easy to dominate your league when you can spend more in 1 window than other clubs spend in 5 years or even more...with their aimless approach PSG would miss out on top 4 in the Premier League most seasons. Literally one of the best examples of how not to run a club even if you have infinite money basically.
And I haven't even mentioned the toxic culture they've built. City are state-owned cheating plastic frauds, but they know how to run the club. PSG is just horrendous.
Those are only good things if we had any idea what his plans for us actually were. For all we know he could just be happy to maintain the status quo.
Selfish ego, folly and the desire to drain Utd’s incoming TV money along with his Glazer chums. If it was about saving Utd he’d buy the club, clear the debt, and sort the infrastructure immediately.
He’s a proven dishonest, self-serving Machiavellian.
Think Tony Blair with a less high rating on the psychopathy scale.
The notion that all this is part of some kind of masterful, yet altruistic plan to own Utd and return it to the top is literally a delusion that a minority of the fanbase are projecting onto him.
He’s just joining the Glazers, with an agreement that he’ll be the fall guy and will get to purchase a bunch of shares in return…
THIS IS JUST A BIGGER VERSION OF WHAT THEY DID WITH WOODWARD!!!
Wake up Utd fans.
It’s an exaggeration but he doesn’t inspire me with confidence. I hope he comes out and clearly outlines his plans regarding his investment and how he will attempt to bring the club forward.
Club's mission statement today should be "to protect Glazer egos at all costs".
same thing, don't be so pedantic
Im sure it will help alot like the other protests.
Glazers and Ratcliffe do not give a toss about it.
No, Ratcliffe is doing anything he can to get his foot in the door. Claiming he gets control of footballing operations works for both him and the Glazers as it gives the impression he's getting something for his money other than a long term power grab and it also appeases fans who want rid of the Glazers by claiming they're no longer in control.
Didn't know this, thanks. The other parts I was aware of.
Really can’t blame the players for giving up when our club is in perennial turmoil especially in how it’s portrayed in the media.
That's because it's never sustained. Mass boycotting of ticket purchases is the way forward.
I think there is cross-wiring in the posts.
Well why isn’t he challenging? He doesn’t need to spend 200m a summer to finish in the CL places in France, nobody is asking him to go toe to toe with PSG but he’s happy to just make up the numbers in mid table
Youre trying to take a pop at PSG and Qatar but they’ve taken a club in a worse position than Nice and made them a major player within Europe, if they’ve spent money then so fecking what? United need money, infact they need billions to get them to a level we expect
Also what are these positives at Nice? they've got worse since INEOS took over.
From the outside looking in, I can understand why some people are not happy with this because of two factors:
1: Glaziers are still there.
2: Whilst Man Utd might well still be able to compete just through their own income, this was a once in a generation chance to combine the might of a oil state with a club naturally financially strong. Look what Man City have done in the past 15 years just to catch up to where Man Utd are financially, a Man Utd turbo charged by a huge state backing and investment probably makes Man Utd the strongest world club again.
However ultimately this is a pathway towards removing the Glaziers, and Ineos aren't exactly paupers either. It makes sense IMO for Sir Jim to only take enough to get his foot in the door. The Glaziers may want more money, but that only realistically happens with a super league, which the Uk govt will block teams from doing in England. Just as much chance that Sir Jim pays less thanb Glaziers wants today if the on pitch stuff continues to degrade over time.
Of course that may not bode well for the club on the football front, but from SJR point of view, its probably the best middle ground for the moment and see where the ground lies after another 3 years. Equally the Glaziers probably think that Man Utd can still compete financially enough to get a top 5 position every other season to ensure the status quo remains, and to be honest, they are probably right.
1: Glaziers are still there.
2: Whilst Man Utd might well still be able to compete just through their own income, this was a once in a generation chance to combine the might of a oil state with a club naturally financially strong. Look what Man City have done in the past 15 years just to catch up to where Man Utd are financially, a Man Utd turbo charged by a huge state backing and investment probably makes Man Utd the strongest world club again.
However ultimately this is a pathway towards removing the Glaziers, and Ineos aren't exactly paupers either. It makes sense IMO for Sir Jim to only take enough to get his foot in the door. The Glaziers may want more money, but that only realistically happens with a super league, which the Uk govt will block teams from doing in England. Just as much chance that Sir Jim pays less thanb Glaziers wants today if the on pitch stuff continues to degrade over time.
Of course that may not bode well for the club on the football front, but from SJR point of view, its probably the best middle ground for the moment and see where the ground lies after another 3 years. Equally the Glaziers probably think that Man Utd can still compete financially enough to get a top 5 position every other season to ensure the status quo remains, and to be honest, they are probably right.
INEOS has more than enough cash to inject into United and turn us into a real powerhouse however as others have said it’s not that simple INEOS is a business and requires agreement at board level for significant investment.
The structure will need to be explicit and clear from the outset.
Will there be two layers of approval in each decision? Will the glazers have ultimate sign off as majority shareholders? Will INEOS need board approval for say 1bn stadium renovations? Why would they sign off on that? It’s a huge company with a Responsibility to thousands of employees, you can’t just said yeah we’re pumping a significant amount of revue into MUFC which 99% of you couldn’t give a toss about.
If this happens we need full details not just oh it’s 25% and sporting control.
Sporting control is not financial control.
The structure will need to be explicit and clear from the outset.
Will there be two layers of approval in each decision? Will the glazers have ultimate sign off as majority shareholders? Will INEOS need board approval for say 1bn stadium renovations? Why would they sign off on that? It’s a huge company with a Responsibility to thousands of employees, you can’t just said yeah we’re pumping a significant amount of revue into MUFC which 99% of you couldn’t give a toss about.
If this happens we need full details not just oh it’s 25% and sporting control.
Sporting control is not financial control.
I think there are limits to the number of days of him being in the UK for tax purposes. Something like less than 184 days if my memory is correct.
Otherwise, it will cost him more than £110million annually.
Without reading the details, I find it hard to believe 25% would get Jim any real control over the club.
The only way to get our voices heard would be to stop buying tickets yes and stop going to matches, but that will not happen. People are naive if they think that normal protesting while going to matches will help.
Unless it's on ESL level it won't make a difference. We have been dealt our cards just need to deal with it now.
I’m glad the sport’s washing, anti human rights abusing cnuts are out. feck them and their oil.
But how the hell does Werther’s Jim acquire the club ‘over time’?
it doesn’t make sense. I honestly think there is a play Behind the scenes who we don’t know about yet.
But how the hell does Werther’s Jim acquire the club ‘over time’?
it doesn’t make sense. I honestly think there is a play Behind the scenes who we don’t know about yet.
yes I know and it makes sense. If he’s a true United fan he might not want another PL club. Inter would be a very good project so it makes sense.
Sir Jim is first a businessman and second a United fan. He will now be able to have some influence on how the club is run and will not give a toss about sentiment. Over the next few years, there will be carnage in the boardroom and stories and tales aplenty in the media about Sir Jim looking to buy up shares until he has 51%. When he does get that, I think he is obliged to begin complete takeover talks. Whatever happens, we are not going to be buying superstar players or have a new stadium in the near future. Give it five years and maybe it will begin. Joel and Avram Glazer will still be milking the club for all it's worth for a while.
How is he going to make a sizeable profit off of United in your opinion?
I hope you know that the amount of dividends the Glazers have annually taken out of the club on average Ratcliffe can probably make in a few days or weeks without much hassle.
Buying into and valuing a debt-ridden investment at several billion pounds just to take 20-30 million out every year is a pretty daft strategy, unless he expects to live to 400 of course.
Even if Ineos wants to sell the club for a huge profit in 10-15 years, they'll need to clear the debt, redevelop the stadium and achieve major footballing success in order to be able to do that...so it's a win-win even if you think a guy with a 30bn net worth is after United's measly annual profits or long-term gains.
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The Ratcliffe supporters keep saying he will definitely take over the club in its entirety when there is NO guarantee this will happen. There is no way to force the ginger goblins to sell their remaining 75% so now we're owned by 7 old rich fools instead of 6. I see years of infighting between owners, mote uncertainty for fans and no success in the future.
It’s a bit anti-climactic, and it’s not ideal for us as a club or supporters. But at the same time I’m not completely against it at this point in time. The success of this transaction will come down to how well INEOS are able to uproot the sporting side and put the right people in charge, I don’t see the Glazers standing in their way as it’s not their money they are spending. What I am disappointed about with this transaction is that there is still question marks over the level of investment in the infra structure of the club, at this point I’m not sure where the money for that is going to come from other than the money paid to the Glazers for the club, but I’m not convinced that that will be going towards the stadium at this point.
I just did a quick search. Wasn’t digging you out really, so many people laughed at Levy over the last year and now they’re top of the table ahead of Oil money. I just realised the connection when reading your post
That is not how multi billion dollar companies work. Sure he's the chairman but the board wouldn't approve this massive investment if they feel the company wouldn't benefit from it. To think Ineos (or any company) will invest without looking for profit is absolutely ludicrous.
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Key word total investment $8bn initially, they would have spent another $1.7-1.8 buying the minority shares later as you can now see the offer for more than $6billionis to the Glazers only, so after debt was paid, because that was in placed another financial line of the proposed takeover, so around £5.1 billion Wouk’s have been paid to the Glazers, then add the £600m debt and we get the £5.7m bid rumoured as a final take it or leave it bid made 48 hours ago.
No, what you have here is unbridled greed from perhaps the 6 greediest human beings to ever walk this earth in the last 2000 years. They were and are clearly looking for £8 billion pounds as the rumours suggested and they are banking on INEOS coming in while they sit in the background and elevate the club on and off the pitch, they’ve potentially sold 28.25 million Class B shares and 1.725 million of their class A shares thats 25% so just under 30 million shares at possibly $46 per share which equates to $1.379 billion being paid to them and therefore assuming the same offer was given to the remaining 10.78 million class A share at $46 per share that would have been another $496m.
That’s a combined 25% of the 163 million shares available which now belong to SIr Jim the Sellout.
The combined price paid which is being reported is $1.875 billion for the 25% minority stake, he was able to offer basically $8-10 per share more than SJ by offering a small payout now with the promise of a huge one in the future plus a fixed minimum value of the club at £6 billion without the debt factored in because he’s still a minority investor so it doesn’t need to be factored just yet.
Enfact as the new co owner he can use INEOS cash in smaller chunks like £150-200m to help with the day to day running of the club and then pay that off in 3 years when he takes full control, basically a nothing to repay loan until 2027. Plus he can use club profits if united manages to make them again to pay off smaller chunks of the club debt.
He will now become a co owner in the next three years, or he may already be one and all footballing decisions are his but he can’t stop the Glazers continuing to take out dividends because all the financial decisions are still theirs.
And there you have it, one critical question answered, the Glazers will not be investing any of the money they receive, instead it is SJ Ratcliffe who must now put the £30m in this year and the next two years to avoid FFP sanctions, that’s pretty much chump change to him but the stadium and other development, nothing and there will be nothing for at least 3 years.
Jimmy Fix it thinks he can take over the footballing side, put his man Paul Mitchell in who would be a huge uograde on Murtourgh (Can’t deny that!) and then explain to ETH whose the boss that English players must be treated better at this Club because ultimately it’s an English club, watch the scouting process change dramatically, Maguire get reinstated as captain(that’s a joke or is it!) and Rashford’s contract ripped up and given £500k per week, maybe that’s a little extreme?
ETH will be gone in 3 months and Graham
potter put in charge, it’s not asif he didn’t want him at Nice now is it?
Let’s see even if he’ll let united buy Todibo or K Thurham, using Nice as a feeder club for United, I could get behind that. They will defintely jettison Onana if he doesn’t start playing well and K Smeichel could be his short term replacement. He won’t have to worry about which team plays CL and EL next year because United won’t be in Europe so there is that !
We might want Antonio Silva as another CB but Mark Ghuei or F Tomari will be who he goes after. The good news might be that Ivan Toney
Could now be a serious option even at £65-80m potential transfer fee, he’s English right ?
Jimmy Fixit will know his only chance to win the fans over instantly is to buy 2 or 3 great players in January to get the fans behind him, if we are scampering around doing loan deals this January, then INEOS will have lost the fans before they’ve got even started.
This is the card we as loyal fans have been dealt, so if your a true united fan and I know 99.99% are, then we get behind our team on the pitch because God Knows it’s going to be chaos incarnate in the next 3-4 months. If We were to boycott a match or don’t turn up the club will just resell the tickets, they have no shame. That simply won’t work.
The club has failed on the pitch in the last decade because those in charge of footballing matters have been woefully inept at doing their Job, Jimmy Fix it has shown little in his history with football clubs to prove he knows any better but if he’s going to learn from his mistakes and recruit best in class available, let’s see how he gets on, he will probably have only until the end of the January before he’s judged!
I’m happy enough with the current compromise provided that there is a full buyout in ~3 years.
It might not be my first choice but it’s a step in the right direction. Many people acting like Ratcliffe is a naive idiot when he’s just got one over on a nation state. The guy obviously knows what he’s doing in business.
The true test will now come in how he rebuilds this club. I’m fairly content at the moment for a few reasons.
He has to do at least three things:
He simply has to address the debt and what his plans are for it.
He has to address his vision and plans for the future ( including the full buyout)
He has to address the stadium situation
Until he communicates with us his intention and what his actual plans are then it’s very difficult to have an objective view on this. I will remain cautiously optimistic about things until I hear what he’s going to say.
It might not be my first choice but it’s a step in the right direction. Many people acting like Ratcliffe is a naive idiot when he’s just got one over on a nation state. The guy obviously knows what he’s doing in business.
The true test will now come in how he rebuilds this club. I’m fairly content at the moment for a few reasons.
He has to do at least three things:
He simply has to address the debt and what his plans are for it.
He has to address his vision and plans for the future ( including the full buyout)
He has to address the stadium situation
Until he communicates with us his intention and what his actual plans are then it’s very difficult to have an objective view on this. I will remain cautiously optimistic about things until I hear what he’s going to say.
In 2023? None. But he started to take it seriously this year by bringing people that are actually good at their jobs, so the future could be good.
If he signs a contract stating he will own a controlling share by X date then I don’t see why not. No different to buying a house with a mortgage and putting down a deposit.
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