Club Sale | It’s done!

[cyberman]

Why does everyone assume that Becks is in with Qatar , he could just as well be in bed with Sir James Arthur Ratcliffe FIChemE

The fact he’s talking full takeover should be a clue

 

[VP89]

They literally give up a large portion of their revenue if Jim buys 25 percent and they have to spend 25 percent of the value of the club on the club.
The maths do not add up.
Everybody keeps talking g about rising value etc but the top clubs finances have been stagnant for years. The super league didn’t almost happen for fun
Chelsea are the only to be ever sold for over 1b. It’s all hysterical crazy talk

They give up all of their revenue if they sell now.

Re. the bit in bold that's under the assumption of the same revenue sources. The point made by the Glazers (and it's not even a stretch) is football sponsorship deals, TV deals and other revenue streams will be much bigger in the coming seasons.

 

[Rightnr]

They literally give up a large portion of their revenue if Jim buys 25 percent and they have to spend 25 percent of the value of the club on the club.
The maths do not add up.
Everybody keeps talking g about rising value etc but the top clubs finances have been stagnant for years. The super league didn’t almost happen for fun
Chelsea are the only to be ever sold for over 1b. It’s all hysterical crazy talk

Agreed. I find the talk of hockey stick movement in football club valuations from the current levels with the current environment to be delusional, particularly in the short to medium term.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

I just can't see an end to this. We're stuck in a loop.
I'd say that I'd want to fast forward until the moment when a deal is struck, but I feel I'd be losing half of my life doing that.

 

[VP89]

Agreed. I find the talk of hockey stick movement in football club valuations from the current levels with the current environment to be delusional, particularly in the short to medium term.

Not at all. Forbes has valued the club at £4.8bn, and that's not some hockey stick movement in club valuation. https://www.forbes.com/teams/manchester-united/

Jassim is offering £5bn, that's after considering future revenue streams, the anchoring bias of him being a supposed United supporter and the fact that Ratcliffe's completion in a few years time would effectively have the deal done at $6.1bn (just over £4.8bn) - think I read that in one of the articles.

What is delusional in my opinion, is this idea that Sheikh Jassim is super rich and can afford to buy us, but won't increase his bid by say £500m if it risks him losing out all together. I don't buy that - either he's not as backed as we thought, or he's not as invested in Manchester United as we thought. Offering more than what is seen to be the intrinsic value of the club shouldn't be a big deal if you consider the named factors.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Why wouldn't he just wait to see what offer they accept from Jim then beat it? They want a bidding war that ends around £10b, neither party is stupid enough to do that.

Not sure why people assume the bigger number wins. It could very well be that the Glazers dont want a full sale, so they put an unrealistic price like 10b like you said. Otherwise I'm not sure what Jassim's people are negotiating if they aren't budging from their (6th?) last offer.

 

[VP89]

Not sure why people assume the bigger number wins. It could very well be that the Glazers dont want a full sale, so they put an unrealistic price like 10b like you said. Otherwise I'm not sure what Jassim's people are negotiating if they aren't budging from their (6th?) last offer.

No credible source had the Glazers putting a $10bn valuation on the club.

 

[Rightnr]

Not at all. Forbes has valued the club at £4.8bn, and that's not some hockey stick movement in club valuation. https://www.forbes.com/teams/manchester-united/

Jassim is offering £5bn, that's after considering future revenue streams, the anchoring bias of him being a supposed United supporter and the fact that Ratcliffe's completion in a few years time would effectively have the deal done at $6.1bn (just over £4.8bn) - think I read that in one of the articles.

What is delusional in my opinion, is this idea that Sheikh Jassim is super rich and can afford to buy us, but won't increase his bid by say £500m if it risks him losing out all together. I don't buy that - either he's not as backed as we thought, or he's not as invested in Manchester United as we thought. Offering more than what is seen to be the intrinsic value of the club shouldn't be a big deal if you consider the named factors.

Hockey stick means exponential growth.

That's not happening from now to the next 5, let alone 3 years, given the revenue projections you can realistically assign the club. And that's before you adjust for us finishing outside the CL spots consistently, which is what I believe will happen.

 

[VP89]

Hockey stick means exponential growth.

That's not happening from now to the next 5, let alone 3 years, given the revenue projections you can realistically assign the club. And that's before you adjust for us finishing outside the CL spots consistently, which is what I believe will happen.

You don't need to see exponential growth to justify the Glazers asking for more than £5bn - for the reasons I already stated.

Also the realization of the revenue can happen in 5 or 10 years - that's not the point. They will need to pay a premium for the potential of realizing that revenue down the line.

 

[Appletonred]

The Glazers do not care one jot for the club, but they care very much about hanging onto their gravy train for their own enrichment until the very last dregs.

 

[Berbaclass]

Ben Jacob’s is back tweeting lots about little. We’ve come full circle.

 

[cyberman]

They give up all of their revenue if they sell now.

Re. the bit in bold that's under the assumption of the same revenue sources. The point made by the Glazers (and it's not even a stretch) is football sponsorship deals, TV deals and other revenue streams will be much bigger in the coming seasons.

What do they take out? 20m a year? So lose 25 percent and it’s 15m spread 6 ways. I can’t see how that plays a part at all.
I just can’t see it. The value would have to improve by at least 2/3 in a few years to make it worth the risk. Never mind if the value rises the costs all rise as well, that’s why profit margins largely remain the same in the midst of the big revenue numbers.
We’ll see but if this is Jim just becoming a minority shareholder without any path to ownership then who the feck bids at 9b if they aren’t here at 5?

 

[mu4c_20le]

Ben Jacob’s is back tweeting lots about little. We’ve come full circle.

He's summing up what he understands so far. If it was Romano tweeting some here would be jizzing.

I found this part interesting though, because it does sound like its over as I cant see the sheikhs upping their offer by another bil

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

The parallels with my other team the Baltimore Orioles (MLB) is just too close for me. Owner about to die, kids fighting, disagreeing, etc....and they ruin everything. Everyone prays they sell the club with tax cost basis rise post his demise, but I we can't count on it.

Having 2 teams owned by trash owners is fecking brutal.

 

[LordSpud]

All Sheik Jassim has to do is offer that 6bn. He has played the long game so let's see if this gets him to offer the magic number.

I just cannot see them losing the chance to own the club. All these other states that have bought in have done okay buying low and making them a juggernaut - City, Newcastle etc. But Manchester United is THE juggernaut. It's the crown jewel. That's why I would be astounded if Ratcliffe won.

 

[cyberman]

He's summing up what he understands so far. If it was Romano tweeting some here would be jizzing.

I found this part interesting though, because it does sound like its over as I cant see the sheikhs upping their offer by another bil

I’m not sure this matters when it’s a minority stake

 

[kaku06]

Surely now that Qatar has put Beckham to lead their charge, they can’t afford to lose it? Beckham also won’t do it unless he was certain that Qatar are winning it?

 

[VP89]

What do they take out? 20m a year? So lose 25 percent and it’s 15m spread 6 ways. I can’t see how that plays a part at all.
I just can’t see it. The value would have to improve by at least 2/3 in a few years to make it worth the risk. Never mind if the value rises the costs all rise as well, that’s why profit margins largely remain the same in the midst of the big revenue numbers.
We’ll see but if this is Jim just becoming a minority shareholder without any path to ownership then who the feck bids at 9b if they aren’t here at 5?

I think Ratcliffe's bid also includes a staggered approach to majority ownership which values the club at a higher amount that Qatar's upfront bid.

I also reckon Qatar have another bid in them and that'll be that.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Whatever the outcome, at least this does seem to be entering its final stages now.

 

[cyberman]

I think Ratcliffe's bid also includes a staggered approach to majority ownership which values the club at a higher amount that Qatar's upfront bid.

I haven’t seen that anywhere though. There’s a lot of foot in the door reports but I’m not seeing staggered ownership anywhere and I believe it would be plastered everywhere if that were the case

 

[VP89]

I haven’t seen that anywhere though. There’s a lot of foot in the door reports but I’m not seeing staggered ownership anywhere and I believe it would be plastered everywhere if that were the case

As I said earlier too - if the club is intrinsically worth £4.8m and a Sheikh with huge huge wealth that is 'apparently' a big Manchester United fan strolls in and says he won't go above £5bn, that's fishy. He either isn't as rich as we thought, or he's not really a United fan and will move over to a Spurs or something, or he isn't really settling at £5bn and will happily go to £5.5bn or more when the time comes.

 

[cyberman]

As I said earlier too - if the club is intrinsically worth £4.8m and a Sheikh with huge huge wealth that is 'apparently' a big Manchester United fan strolls in and says he won't go above £5bn, that's fishy. He either isn't as rich as we thought, or he's not really a United fan and will move over to a Spurs or something, or he isn't really settling at £5bn and will happily go to £5.5bn or more when the time comes.

But that goes to my point, foot in the door. If it were a staggered takeover it would be reported as instead of minority investment.
Everything you just said applies to Jim as well?
I can’t see how he needs to restructure the deal to then have a staggered takeover approved that has the same problems. I can’t buy it today but somehow I’ll buy it tomorrow if you agree even though it’s not you blocking me in the first place.
It really looks simply like minority shareholder. Nothing else makes sense. We really have to hold our water on adding anything more to Jim’s offer that isn’t made public.
It’s all a mind feck.

 

[Appletonred]

Huge embarrassment for Qatar if they lose this, ultimately, I doubt that they will, 500 million extra would surely get this over the line.

 

[pascell]

"The situation remains fluid and the Qatari group could still increase its bid, the people said."


^ Qatar are going to make a bid, you can just tell.

David Hellier said when Qatar were in the lead that Ratcliffe's deal was dead unless he changes it to minority or gives Class A holders what they want. He did that. This is an easter egg for Qatar just giving another bid, Give it time?

Hellier knows feck all clearly as Ratcliffes bid has never been dead as they've always been in negotiations/talks

 

[VP89]

But that goes to my point, foot in the door. If it were a staggered takeover it would be reported as instead of minority investment.

Both are reported. The bid is for minority investment but it's been reported that it's working toward a majority takeover after x years.

Everything you just said applies to Jim as well?

Nah, Jim is 70 something and of far smaller wealth than the Sheikh.

I can’t see how he needs to restructure the deal to then have a staggered takeover approved that has the same problems. I can’t buy it today but somehow I’ll buy it tomorrow if you agree even though it’s not you blocking me in the first place.
It really looks simply like minority shareholder. Nothing else makes sense. We really have to hold our water on adding anything more to Jim’s offer that isn’t made public.
It’s all a mind feck.

Its seemingly a minority investment that works toward majority ownership at a valuation bigger than what Qatar have - according to the tweet I gave earlier.

 

[Pexbo]

As I said earlier too - if the club is intrinsically worth £4.8m and a Sheikh with huge huge wealth that is 'apparently' a big Manchester United fan strolls in and says he won't go above £5bn, that's fishy. He either isn't as rich as we thought, or he's not really a United fan and will move over to a Spurs or something, or he isn't really settling at £5bn and will happily go to £5.5bn or more when the time comes.

You don’t seem to have any concept of what money is. So let’s say they just go nuts and pay £10bn for the club, how do you think their next business negotiation will look?

 

[VP89]

Hellier knows feck all clearly as Ratcliffes bid has never been dead as they've always been in negotiations/talks

He works in my building and I can categorically tell you it's the opposite.

 

[VP89]

You don’t seem to have any concept of what money is. So let’s say they just go nuts and pay £10bn for the club, how do you think their next business negotiation will look?

When did I say bid £10bn?


Can you follow posts? Genuine question.

 

[Pexbo]

When did I say bid £10bn?


Can you follow posts? Genuine question.

What figure do you have in mind?

 

[cyberman]

Both are reported. The bid is for minority investment but it's been reported that it's working toward a majority takeover after x years.


Nah, Jim is 70 something and of far smaller wealth than the Sheikh.

Its seemingly a minority investment that works toward majority ownership at a valuation bigger than what Qatar have - according to the tweet I gave earlier.

But it’s not. Sky and Bloomberg both broke the news and Sky even went out of their way to say they don’t know if this will lead to a full takeover or not.
Everything else is just noise and assumptions
If Jim can’t buy United now then why would he stagger a takeover for many billions more?
Edit I see the problem.
If you read the Bloomberg article from the standpoint of Jim winning since his minority bid being accepted means no full takeover for Qatar then it becomes clearer. It even states Glazers would rather the minority bid. It’s not Jim taking over. The statements of Jim winning in no way indicates any sort of ownership campaign.
It’s pretty clear in the article what the bid is

 

[pascell]

He works in my building and I can categorically tell you it's the opposite.

So does a cleaner and many others, what they saying? You lapping that up too?

Everyone so far in this process has either covered all bases from the start or backtracked and reported the opposite to what they originally ran with.

 

[Strapman]

Good Old Jimmy Ratcliffe has also just been paid a healthy dividend by Mercedes’ F1 yesterday. I’m serious go look it up. Jimmy is here to make money and flip the club later for more than he’s bought it in 5-10 years.

We are going to be in serious trouble if the stinky old gammon wins. He can’t compete with UAE down the road and the Saudis in Newcastle. All of his Sporting Assets perform downwards when he takes control or has involvement. So don’t expect any smart running or trading like at Liverpool, Brighton or Arsenal

Jimmy the Gammon has nothing to offer apart from preventing us getting the lottery win with Qatar. Absolute scumbag of a man.

 

[Berbaclass]

He's summing up what he understands so far. If it was Romano tweeting some here would be jizzing.

I found this part interesting though, because it does sound like its over as I cant see the sheikhs upping their offer by another bil

He knows very little which is why none of it is insightful or interesting in the slightest. Funny that you mentioned Romano actually he nearly waffles on as much as this guy which takes a lot of doing.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Surely now that Qatar has put Beckham to lead their charge, they can’t afford to lose it? Beckham also won’t do it unless he was certain that Qatar are winning it?

Yep, you don't wheel Beckham out just before you are about to lose that's for sure.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

Whatever the outcome, at least this does seem to be entering its final stages now.

You must be new here.

 

[Spoony]

I think the rumours are on the back of Becks's interview at th Qatar GP. He didn't say much but probably enough. Anyway, if the Glaziers want to sell, they'll probably sell. And if they don't it's Glaziers for the long term. Having said that Qatar could increase their bid. Or they could walk away.

 

[VP89]

What figure do you have in mind?

The figure I have is immaterial. It's the figure the Glazers have.

I'm just saying saying a 200m premium on a club valued at £4.8bn by Forbes as a 'final take it or leave it' offer is fishy.
And it's not just me saying it - Bloomberg and others have said Qatar are not ruling out bidding more.

But it’s not. Sky and Bloomberg both broke the news and Sky even went out of their way to say they don’t know if this will lead to a full takeover or not.
Everything else is just noise and assumptions
If Jim can’t buy United now then why would he stagger a takeover for many billions more?

Sky don't know anything, I don't think that speaks to much. Bloomberg just said that there is a preference toward Jim's offer but not given a lot of detail regarding what the offer is outside of 25% minority. David came on the Youtube channels in the past to give some context so he might do the same this time.

So does a cleaner and many others, what they saying? You lapping that up too?

Everyone so far in this process has either covered all bases from the start or backtracked and reported the opposite to what they originally ran with.

This logic is insanely dim. Unless you're insinuating I'm a cleaner at Bloomberg. Which would also be dim, good work.

 

[Canucantona20]

The parallels with my other team the Baltimore Orioles (MLB) is just too close for me. Owner about to die, kids fighting, disagreeing, etc....and they ruin everything. Everyone prays they sell the club with tax cost basis rise post his demise, but I we can't count on it.

Having 2 teams owned by trash owners is fecking brutal.

At least you guys had a good season. Now imagine being an Oakland A’s fan like myself. Probably the worst owner in all of sports.

 

[cyberman]

The figure I have is immaterial. It's the figure the Glazers have.

I'm just saying saying a 200m premium on a club valued at £4.8bn by Forbes as a 'final take it or leave it' offer is fishy.
And it's not just me saying it - Bloomberg and others have said Qatar are not ruling out bidding more.


Sky don't know anything, I don't think that speaks to much. Bloomberg just said that there is a preference toward Jim's offer but not given a lot of detail regarding what the offer is outside of 25% minority. David came on the Youtube channels in the past to give some context so he might do the same this time.

This logic is insanely dim. Unless you're insinuating I'm a cleaner at Bloomberg. Which would also be dim, good work.

Sky broke the news of the restructured bid. Bloomberg flat out says Glazers prefer the minority shareholder bid and specifically 25 percent. Nothing more or less.
I honestly don’t know what you’re trying to say here. Wouldn’t you think if they’re talking to an insider discussing the bid they would report a full takeover attempt? It’s two completely different fecking bids you arguing with Bloomberg here.
Who’s even said this? TalkSport? Ben Jacobs?

 

[kerrygold]

The parallels with my other team the Baltimore Orioles (MLB) is just too close for me. Owner about to die, kids fighting, disagreeing, etc....and they ruin everything. Everyone prays they sell the club with tax cost basis rise post his demise, but I we can't count on it.

Having 2 teams owned by trash owners is fecking brutal.

I feel ya man. Been suffering with those fools of owners for years. Now we are loaded with talent and winning and I just know JA is gonna feck it up somehow. I don’t wish ill will on anyone but the old man needs to go and the sooner the better. Hopefully then a sale will take place.