It was down here back in June when the media made it seem like Ratcliffe was approaching a deal that would snub the Class A shareholders. Best to ignore the fluctuations...it has been discussed at length (most recently by David Hellier of Bloomberg on the podcast shared here earlier this week), but all the stock price indicates is the public perception of the likelihood for a full takeover in the foreseeable future. It has simply been reactionary to whatever nonsense is written about the negotiations by the press.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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We're 1 page away from 3000 pages, crazy. 
Is it not 2100?We're 1 page away from 3000 pages, crazy.
Rachel Riley would not approve of your mathematics.
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that's what I suggested back in December! It makes a lot more sense to do that in the current environmentThis thread will continue long after the Caf has passed into the wind. It will be handed down on ancient parchments as the one called Max leads us out of the ashes.
The Glazers own 67% of the club and want £6Bn to piss off. This equals to about £9bn for all the shares in the club. This valuation is probably what's holding the club back imo.
The voting rights are different to the economic rights and I wonder how much this affects the Glazers accepting the bids
The voting rights are different to the economic rights and I wonder how much this affects the Glazers accepting the bids
'and as the feral kids sat around the fire, they 'membered. They 'membered the struggle against the Glazeynogs, they 'membered the speed of Nick. They 'membered the uppy downy stock and they 'membered the bald one. Mostly they 'membered the cafe of red, where the end of days started. A tattered green and gold scarf blows in the wind, carrying faint cries of 'we still haven't won away at the top 9' for those who listen.
If nothing happens in October(as Bloomberg journalist and Neil Curtis from The Sun have suggested), I'll lose my faith in the takeover completely. I'm already close to resignation, surrendering on that front and accept the eternal mediocrity and failure.
Glazers are using this kind of maths in their valuation of the club.We're 1 page away from 3000 pages, crazy.
they are valuing the club at 6bn, not their own stake
otherwise the stock price would have been much higher when the rumours were at their peak
An announcement during the international break in October would be absolutely delightful.
There’s another international break in October?! FFS
And the announcement alone will infinitely lift the mood and our standard of play. I’m 100% certain these players will start clicking. We need an end to this toxic culture at the club.
No he’s actually right the Glazers for the very last time want £6 billion to relinquish control of the club. They own 69% of Class B shares and approximately 4.3% of Class A shares.
When Malcolm Died his assets were divided into six, some of the siblings have sold shares on the NYSE to raise cash, the moment the B class shares are sold they turn into A class Shares with less voting rights. The Glazers also inherited all the debts of the club and all of the deeds. The current legacy debt is £565m and rising, the amortisation of transfer debts £305m and rising and at least £140-150m on the credit line, Bank of America allowed for transfers this summer. Forbes valued Man United at $6billion and the enterprise value of that breakdown for the 163 million class A and Class B shares was about $3.4bn when the share price was above $21 per share. The additional valuation is shown on the link, broadcasting, merchandising, future sponsorship deals, and Of course the value of the property and the stadium currently owned by the club. They also have planning permission for the property they own which surrounds Old Trafford, 43 acres of surrounding land.
https://www.forbes.com/teams/manchester-united/?sh=7a7d7efd13f9
In the same way the Glazer Siblings inherited the assets and the debt, they have complete control and ownership of the land, all of the deeds for the land and the property owned by the club are in their names, so yes they have to get board permission to develop and commercialise this land but they already have a board Majority by the very fact there is 6 of them.
So for the very final time, the Glazers want £6bn for their 69% controlling shares, they might as recently been leaked take £5.6bn to £5.9bn.
If that transaction was to finally happen then the existing debt would have to be subtracted from that payment first to satisfy the Bank of America and other major lenders who are currently owed the £700m immediately. The Transfer debt or amortisation of player purchases does not have to be paid off and would not stop the club from de listing from the NYSE.
If that initial sale was successful then the new buyer, let’s say SJ for this example would then decide to take the club of the NYSE which in itself could take a further 3 months. He would have to make a fair enterprise share value offer under Cayman law for the remaining 31%, possibly $34-36 per share with the current market.
There are approximately 50 million A class shares which is a further $1.7-1.8 billion or £1.38-1.45 billion.
Therefore the total cost could reach £7.3 to 7.4 billion. My current understanding is that SJ/92 bid is already about £5.2 billion to the Glazers with debt settlement to be deducted plus $34 rumour of Class A sales. It’s important to note that both SJ and INEOS are initially trying to get control of the club and SJ After would desire 100% ownership so their final fee is obviously much more than the fee that INEOS would pay.
It’s Also important to note that the Cardiff Chairmen, Mehmet Dalman, the one person who previously resided over the Initial club take over by Malcolm Glazer also stated a similar figure of £7.3bn because as a banker he’s seeing the whole process not the initial process of Sale.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...r-united-takeover-glazers-latest-27516559.amp
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'and as the feral kids sat around the fire, they 'membered. They 'membered the struggle against the Glazeynogs, they 'membered the speed of Nick. They 'membered the uppy downy stock and they 'membered the bald one. Mostly they 'membered the cafe of red, where the end of days started. A tattered green and gold scarf blows in the wind, carrying faint cries of 'we still haven't won away at the top 9' for those who listen.
Hahahahhahahha. Well done, mate.
And November if I remember correctly
you said he’s right at 9bn but then stated a completely different price
Have Bloomberg actually published anything in the last two months regarding Qatar/October, or is it just one of their journalists giving his personal view on a podcast? The latter obviously carries a significantly less weight.
'and as the feral kids sat around the fire, they 'membered. They 'membered the struggle against the Glazeynogs, they 'membered the speed of Nick. They 'membered the uppy downy stock and they 'membered the bald one. Mostly they 'membered the cafe of red, where the end of days started. A tattered green and gold scarf blows in the wind, carrying faint cries of 'we still haven't won away at the top 9' for those who listen.
No he’s right at the Glazers £6bn demands for their class B shares not £9bn where that come from ? Maybe you mean $9bn for the total sale?
Ok I see the mistake it’s a different poster whose quoted £9bn not me look back through the posts, Rampant Red Rodriguez posted this not me ……Apology accepted
I know you didn't quote it. Someone else did. I said it was wrong. You quoted me and said he's right.
Irrespective of the numbers this made me
Irrespective of the numbers this made me
and even funner because he got it totally wrong
It's a miscommunication, he's a good poster, so cut him some slack.
Okay mate, apology accepted
He did not. Are you guys so fed up with this you make fun of one of the people in here with some actual insight in M&A?
so someone said the Glazers want a 9bn valuation
I respond and say that's wrong
He then responds to me and said no that's right (but in same post says 7.2bn)
I point out the little mistake to which he infers it was my mistake and says "apology accepted"
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However you clearly read the wrong user apology accepted !Irrespective of the numbers this made me
I am only one £ away from a million. Nice!
Very interesting read. Thanks!
Think I missed 2000. 3000 here we go!
No for the very last time he is only right with his quote that the Glazers, all six greedy goblins want £6 billion, that doesn’t mean anyone will offer that value or more importantly they will be wired £6bn in cash into their bank accounts to finally relinquish control of the club.
Before the greedy Glazers see one pound/dollar, the debt must be paid off in order to execute a 100% sale and in the process delist the club from the NYSE. The Glazers own 69% of the club or just over two thirds, do you assume that the minority share holders will not be looking to receive a considerable premium on their shares too, otherwise why would they agree to sell them to SJ/92 Foundation. If you go back about 1500 pages you will find, I suggested this and got lots of users who said “no that can’t be right!” Only to swivel 360 when new information has emerged.
INEOS bid is not the same bid, it does not include Debt settlement, delisting the club from the NYSE or making an enterprise offer per share to current A list share holders. The club is listed in the Cayman Islands and the laws are similar to the US, however the tax registration process is vastly different.
I have no idea what’s currently going on just like 99.9% of the users on this forum, however you have to think that this either coming to a close in the next two to three months or the Goblins take the club off the market. The finances currently are so bad within the day to day running, it would be difficult for them to continue to trade past 2024 without huge cutbacks, interest rates are rising and the club is going backward on the field.
It was widely rumoured that INEOS had offered nearly £2.7-2.9billion for 51% controlling shares with either 2 Glazers or all 6 staying on controlling the other 49% of the class B shares, that’s right they would still have kept 31-34% of the Class B shares. This is where all the confusion has been reported inaccurately within the UK press and media. Jimmy Ratcliffe was not looking to buy 51% of the club for nearly £3billion but 51% of the Glazers 69% class B voting shares which effectively would have given him 35-38% of the club, the Glazers would have retained 31-34% and 31% would still be class A minority shares.
Jimmy Ratcliffe would then have become the chairman of Man United PLC and as such granted the chairmen’s deciding veto vote on the board because his shares would continue to be worth 10 times the voting rights of the class A shares. This means that at board meeting he may have had 5 members, The Glazers may have had 4 and the the minority only 3, certainly not a perfect scenario. This put and call deal is incredibly complicated and complexed in a M&A deal.
Joel and Avram would then wait it out over 2/3 years to receive more than their other 4 siblings, whilst throwing the board into chaos, INEOS would not really have full control until they bought the rest of the Glazer Shares, whilst at the same time having little support from the minority share holders who would be non compliant with their decision due to losing a huge potential return on their investment which would have occurred if SJ/92 Foundation bid been successful.
This is why I believe both Bidders are not going to increase their bid, INEOS may need to go back to the drawing board and include minority share holders, they may have done this already with a promise to buy them out in 1-2 years as well. The Raine group might be completely fed up off dealing with the Glazers but they will possibly try one final push to get their commission and ask the SJ/92 Foundation to raise his bid by £300-400m after leaking that INEOS are close to doing a deal with minority share holders which may or may not be true!
That’s my view anyway on how it might play out in the next two to three months.
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I watched the caught offside video for the first time. The interesting point is Hellier believed that Raine have actually caused some of the problems by promising the £6 billion valuation (which they have not met).
Both the Glazer's and Raine expected more "competitive tension" with more bidders. This so why we have had stories of "stalling" and "taking off the market." Because that is the only leverage the Glazer's have got, because INEOS and Jassim's offers are so contrasting.
As you know Hellier believes that Jassim will eventually win out as there is too much pressure from within to leave United in the state that it is with the stadium and the infrastructure. The word Hellier used is "dangerous".He does thin that Jassim will coordinate some form of increase to his offer.
Yep I thought the same as Hellier, Raine and the Glazers really expected more bidders and they are finding it every increasingly difficult to squeeze more out of the bids, the dangerous part is financial.
Yes the club has new improved sponsorship deals however it reported a record revenue last financial year and still made a loss. Servicing the debt with increasing interest rates is eventually going to hurt the club. The club still has over £300m plus of amortised debt just for transfers which could be anything from £50-60m per year for the next 4-6 years, imagine paying that plus £30-40m of interest just to service the legacy debt and then you have a wage bill of £300m per year that’s £400m of costs without transfers, rates, bills, training ground improvements, hotel and travel expenses.
If man United got a bigger fine for FFP like £10m because the Glazers do not and will not ever invest a penny of their money, if they are even here next summer, with the current FSP reducing to 80% of turnover and the dire finances of the club, I doubt the club will be able to spend more than £50m next summer.
I was talking about the 9bn valuation
which you yourself have already agreed with me on, so all good
I don’t agree with most of the stuff you posted but that’s okay, I appreciate the effort you put in to your posts
I just hope the Glazers feck off!
Yes I agree that I would never have stated a 9 billion valuation because the value of the £6bn for the Glazers to relinquish control is not just receiving a set enterprise value per b class share they also want a premium for releasing their control of the deeds on the property owned by the club which is in their name plus the future broadcasting and merchandising deals, Class A share holders do not have that bargaining chip so they would never receive the same type of offer.
The previous poster assumed, wrongly that because 67% was two thirds, the logical thing would be to add another £3billion to make £9 billion I have never agreed with that and gave a comprehensive breakdown why that was inaccurate , I agreed with the first part the Glazers want £6 billion. All cleared up now and yes we all want the Goblins to go, however this is still not concluded and the pain continues for all of us !
It’s my pleasure and I try and post less frequently now, but in bursts, I do think we are coming to some type of conclusion, however that could still be 6-9 months not 1-2 like some people think. My bet would be that something might already be happening between SJ and the Glazers as the Qatar team have gone very quiet, and normally after 8-9 months, they would gracefully pull out if they thought they could not conclude the deal.Thanks for your content in this thread bud, really appreciate your posts and info.
3000 pages here we go!
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