I'm trying to draw parallels with the Abramovic saga where he was ousted after the UK govt's sanctions. Although different scenario and circumstances, I'd like to think there would be some consistency in outcomes? Not sure of any such cases before.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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I'm trying to draw parallels with the Abramovic saga where he was ousted after the UK govt's sanctions. Although different scenario and circumstances, I'd like to think there would be some consistency in outcomes? Not sure of any such cases before.
The only one I remember like this was Birmingham. If I remember correctly they had all their assists frozen. They couldn't buy or sell players until the court case was concluded. It almost destroyed them.
Edit:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/jul/27/birmingham-chairman-survival-battle
yeah that makes sense
I don't think the strategic investment will be that easy to sort out though, due to interest rates.. one of main reasons I think they're off
You're connecting criticism of Rashford with whatever that you are criticising that poster for. It's putting people in groups based on one opinion.
It's not really helpful, as opposed to addressing the actual point. Just my 2c.
Agreed. I don’t think loading more debt is an option.
Taking minority investment by issuing more shares which would obviously water down their own shareholding is an option though. Short term it would decrease their own share values but it’s a strategic investment for a reason. They might raise 2bn to invest back into the club and issue X shares. In 2023 that might mean their own shares are now worth 25% less but after they have used that capital to build 90,000 seater New Trafford, state of the art rebuild of Carrington and major investment into the squad, along with all the other potential earners in the pipeline around TV deals and sponsorship etc and as the football bubble grows they might feel that by 2033 the club could be worth £16-20bn and their own shareholding’s are now worth £10bn-£12bn instead of the current ~£4bn so once again without putting any of their own money on the table they manage to inflate the value of the club and profit handsomely.
apologies I misunderstood
who are they getting minority investment from though? I haven't seen anything concrete about that
Off the top of my head, Carlyle has been named. I can’t remember the others. As far as being a United fan it’s a bunch of names you want nowhere near the club though.
It’s more a list of private equity, hedge firms and vulture capitalists from what I remember. The concern would be that the Glazers do not meet the promised targets and they start asset stripping.
I don't see those names going anywhere near United at the valuations the Glazers want personally
could see them offering financing, but not for equity
sure they might be takers with heavy penalties for missing targets, but can't see the Glazers agreeing to that either
it just seems way less likely than them just selling for 5.5bn or whatever the fee ends up being
Fully agree, hence why I bought MUFC shares a while ago and have only increased my holding since.
Currently they hold the keys and hold the power and have two active bidders. Until one of those bidders breaks and increases their offer to something the other can’t match we’re going to have this stalemate or until the Glazers can no longer afford to service the club and face would otherwise face consequences.
They will sell to Qatar, they will ultimately be the party which has no upper limit and is currently slowly squeezing INEOS out. They could offer £10bn and get it done but that’s just bad business, what they are doing is carefully edging towards the pride that is too much for INEOS and just enough for the Glazers.
They should have done so by now, really. Jassim's daddy won't give him any more money.
He'll need to beg harder or he'll have to make do with an XBox for Crimbo.
I’m not so sure at this point…
If that were the case, they wouldn’t need to carefully edge toward that price, they would just, at this point, offer £6b and take the club.
I genuinely think this notion that it’s ‘Qatar’ rather than a small consortium of wealthy dudes from Qatar is erroneous.
And thus, I think there very much IS an upper limit to what they can / will pay before they move to another PL club that is more fairly priced, needs far less investment and doesn’t have gibbering idiot, geriatric, nepo baby owners complicating the deal.
£6bn isn’t the RRP. If they go in with £6bn there is nothing stopping the Glazers sitting on that offer, waiting for INEOS to offer something competitive and then deciding it’s not quite enough.
Jumping in with the top offer is never a good negotiation tactic.
You said 10b in your post that I was replying to.
What I’m saying is that now, at this point, it’s clear that a £6b bid - right now - would blow INEOS away.
And it seems pretty likely that the Glazers would take it.
And if they didn’t take it, it would’ve blown away the only other bidder anyway and the pressure to sell would be fecking immense at that point.
It’s been so quiet on this recently. I need my fix of fake news about how it’s so close and only requires the delivery of a fax machine by carrier pigeon to Qatar via the moon.
And that might be overpaying when £5.6m might be enough to get it over the line. Why give the Glazers another £400m? Nobody conducts business like that.
It's not happening boys.
The Glazers didn't get the bidding war they expected.
According to reports, there were 200 interested parties in Chelsea. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...o-buy-chelsea-bidders-so-far-roman-abramovich
I think The Raine Group would have told The Glazers there would have been plenty of interest in United. But for whatever reason, it has just not materialized.
The Glazers didn't get the bidding war they expected.
According to reports, there were 200 interested parties in Chelsea. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...o-buy-chelsea-bidders-so-far-roman-abramovich
I think The Raine Group would have told The Glazers there would have been plenty of interest in United. But for whatever reason, it has just not materialized.
poor Chelsea, 200 interested parties and that clown won the bid
that figure can’t be real though? That must be about 15% of the people in the world who can even afford if
Are you sure? I don't think anything is clear.
Ineos only want 51%, so should Qatar raise their bid by 500mil, Ineos only need an extra 250mil to match.
Plus, it seems that Avram and Joel like the idea of keeping a stake, which to them, may be more appealing than a higher bid from Qatar.
They may be waiting for Qatar to make a bid for a lesser % stake.
Why is is that Qatar seem to insist on buying the whole thing? They only need 51% for control.
Right, but they’re still not doing what you previously said - moving toward the price.
They’ve announced, publicly, that this is their final offer, and since then there’s been no further ‘careful edging’ at all (@horsechoker there’s one for the ‘sexual posts thread mate).
There’s been literally nothing, for over a month mate.
So essentially, the whole, ‘there’s no upper limit’ really seems very unlikely at this juncture. That’s what I’m saying.
The sums involved are so huge and the plans Qatar has are so long term that I think both parties are fine if it takes a while. It's normal for a typical acquisition to happen over several months or a year and this isn't a typical acquisition.
But yeah, generally feck off Glazers.
But yeah, generally feck off Glazers.
Really? Because they want to own the club.
In most cases, when big football clubs are sold, the previous owners leave, properly.
Especially when they have an absolutely toxic relationship with the fanbase, are universally hated and have ran the club into the ground.
If I personally was in the position to buy Utd and the Glazers wanted to stay in any capacity I would move on to another club immediately.
Because the A class shareholders are threatening to take legal action if only the Glazer’s shares are sold
poor Chelsea, 200 interested parties and that clown won the bid
that figure can’t be real though? That must be about 15% of the people in the world who can even afford if
Chelsea wasn't bought by a person. It was bought by a consortium with backing from an investment group, of which there were many.
Who knows how many parties were involved, but it seems that it was way more that are interested in United. The $2 to $3bil valuation for Chelsea must have been seen as a much better proposition than United at $5 to 6bil.
So United are left with two bidders who dont want the club because they think it makes business sense (even though Jim says it does), they want it for a passion project or in the case of Qatar, a sports washing enterprise.
They got 2 bidders, both of which have had 5 rounds of bidding against each other, sounds good to me.
There is a reason no one else was really interested, the valuation is too high, if they wanted £3-£4 billion they'd have been loads more bidders.
You know, they could just take less than they wanted.
Chelsea is a unique case and the figure quoted was including a guaranteed billion committed to investment.
How do you know they’re not? There’s been no leaks recently that doesn’t mean there has been no movement. They’ve made what is it? 3 “final offers”. Nobody has a clue what has been happening behind the scenes. We’ve heard bitchy comments from football journalists who have literally zero access to this process but for their own egos need to pretend they are in the know and that’s about it.
And does that mean that they have a case? Why would the Glazers not just be able to sell their Class B shares, without the say so of Class A shareholders?
We know the B class shares have 10x the voting power of class A, so they could even change the business articles of association to accommodate the Ineos bid.
Well obviously I can’t prove what is or isn’t happening in secret, I can only go by what’s been known thus far.
And going by that, there’s been no further movement for over a month, some Glazer friendly outlets have suggested a ‘pause’ in the ‘sale’, Avram Glazer has been visiting the team and going to matches and the club are are signing players for large fees.
For all intents and purposes, they would still own the club at 51%.
This clearly isn't "most cases". It seems Joel and Avram believe the club could be worth way more in the future, so holding a % is a hedge against this.
They don't want to be the ones that sold Man United for $5.5bil if they believe it could be worth $10bil in the near future. From that perspective, the Ineos deal makes sense. It allows their sibling to get paid while Joel and Avram hold on to their investment a little longer;.
Avram appearing at matches is so transparent. He’s barely turned up for 18 years and now during this selling process he’s suddenly interested? Yeah sure.
Thus making Chelsea an even better proposition.
That’s fine but there will be very few parties willing to humour and indulge them with such a set up beyond the geriatric Brexiteer they currently have on board with it.
If that’s what they’re keen on they’d do well to accept the offer from him.
Which they very well may do.
What you gonna do when Ratcliffe is in charge with the Glazers taking dividends?
Seems your head may explode?
The deserved barbs about Brexit don't have the same impact as they're contra Qatari regime rule. They are so far to the right they'd make Nigel Farage's day.
It's why they are really buying United: PR.
I’ll just hope that he proves me wrong and has Utd back where it belongs challenging and winning top honours, I’ll also expect him to invest heavily in the club infrastructure and reduce the debt significantly.
The potential buyers haven't materialised because everyone knows the Glazer's have underinvested for years.
If you knew a neighbour had always got in cheap dodgy workmen to patch his roof rather than do it properly....you'd be loathe to pay over the odds when he tries to sell it.
A lick of paint on rusted metal can't hide the huge amount of investment needed. We are actually lucky to have found 2 people who are still hanging around...many others would have moved on by now in the face of Glazer shenanigans.
This is true.
But then a lot of sellers who selling an asset, quite often are delusional about the value of their item.
So now the pendulum has swung back to Mr Ineos?
The A class shareholders clearly believe so, and they have way more financial muscle than the Glazer’s. This has been discussed at length many pages back, but, in essence their argument is that the A and B class shares are of equal value. So, if the Glazer’s sell their shares for a premium way over market value , the A class shareholders believe they are entitled to the same offer. They also fear that if only the Glazer shares are sold the value of the A class shares will plummet.
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