Or ' according to some sources'
Club Sale | It’s done!
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Or ' according to some sources'
No need to ask, it is official.
What the feck are you on about? are you accusing me of idolising human rights abuser?
Pull yourself together ffs and just use your brain. The sheer arrogance is that you think you can fix eastern civilizations thousands of years old. They can fecking fix themselves without your fecking colonizing western mentality help.
There are different rules for every league, but broadly, while you can own clubs in multiple different countries, it is not possible to have a controlling interest in two clubs playing in the same competition.
In the Premier League, shareholding in a second club is restricted to 10%, which means it would not be possible for the Saudi sovereign wealth fund (PIF) (or, one presumes, its chairman, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman) to buy more than 10% of Manchester United, since they already own Newcastle United.
UEFA's rules are slightly less strict, though. Individual people or legal entities are permitted to own any "non-decisive influence" shareholding of a second club, without breaching the rules. "Non-decisive influence" here means owning less than 50% of the shares. So you could theoretically own 100% of Manchester United and, say, 25% of Juventus, without causing any problems, even if both clubs were in the Champions League.
This is why RB Leipzig and RB Salzburg were both able to compete in the Champions League - no single person or legal entity owns more than 50% of both of those clubs - you may recall that there was initially something of a furore about these two clubs competing in the same competition in 2017-18, and the matter was eventually referred to the Club Financial Control Body adjudicatory chamber, who eventually concluded that a series of “significant and substantial” changes made by the clubs (basically, a load of senior Red Bull execs at Salzburg, stepped down) ensured that they fulfilled UEFA’s eligibility criteria.
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This has (understandably) gone quiet again since the small update that Glazer was in Qatar and having meetings with some Qatari / Dubai investors, potentially linked to United
I don't subscribe to the notion that we won't hear anything until a sale is complete. There will be so many people involved outside of the ones doing the buying and selling that certain details will leak
So when do we think this heats up? I can't see it being done before April, but I do think we'll have a good idea on what is happening come the last weeks of the PL season
I don't subscribe to the notion that we won't hear anything until a sale is complete. There will be so many people involved outside of the ones doing the buying and selling that certain details will leak
So when do we think this heats up? I can't see it being done before April, but I do think we'll have a good idea on what is happening come the last weeks of the PL season
Would their be a deadline and then the group dealing with the sale will release a list of the potential buyers?
You will hear before any deal is complete. United are on the NYSE, the shareholders would need to know before any deal is confirmed.
Why don't we make our own rumours up?
Kaka to City?
Ronaldo is going to buy us and make himself player manager.
Dubai don't have the sort of money to compete with City or Newcastle though do they?
When you're getting into the hundreds of billions does it really matter?
They're the least wealthiest of the 3 but destitute they are not.
No problem, I'll make one up. US private equity firm Blackstone are interested in acquiring Manchester United. Significantly larger than PIF (the Saudi sovereign wealth fund), Blackstone have more money than God and are determined to make Manchester United the biggest and best football club in the world.
I keep hearing this. But don't we generate enough that if we were debt free, we wouldn't need a sugar daddy to pump in hundreds of millions for transfers anyway?
The big money will be spent on making us debt free, a new/renovated stadium and then facilities?
This. We need enough to rid of our debt and investment into our facilities, such as the stadium, etc.
Dubai's ICD fund has an asset worth of over 300bn USD. Then again sports investments doesn't appear in ICD's portfolio or fits their profile. Net profit for 2021 was reported as 10bn AED (about £2,5bn I think). KSA's PIF is said to be worth twice as much but does it really matter when we're talking about sums of that size?
Cheers, nice one.
So with PSG looking to sell or have already sold 15% looks like they would have to sell another 36% minimum to be able to go for United under UEFA rules? can’t see that happening anytime soon then, or certainty not in Q1, surely that rules them out?
UEFA are so corrupt, I'm sure Qatar can find a loophole if they want. On top of that, it's in UEFA's interests to have United in the CL and on their good side. They're still fighting the fallout of the Super League and that threat is always looming over them.
Just about $8.2t or something, so no, probably a few trillion shy of ‘competing’.
In a fiscal year, our revenue is less than one quarter of Tesco’s. We aren’t rolling in it, but we could spend probably £100m a season if we wanted to? But that would fluctuate depending on current wage budget, missing out on competitions or early exits, multiple poor season finishes, advertising revenue decrease, recession etc.
Meanwhile City and PSG will spend whatever, whenever.
£100m used to be 3 of the highest quality players on the market, now it’s a Sancho, Pogba, Lukaku, if you’re lucky it’s a Casemiro. We can’t compete anymore, the best staff are also at the highest paying places, 3 guesses where that might be?
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Of course they do.
Unless you think any sovereign nation is going to invest a significant percentage of the GDP into a football team.
It rules out QIA (Qatar's sovereign wealth fund) and PIF (Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund) from directly buying United. As you say, they might "support" a bid by a private individual(s), but they'd need to show that they have no significant control over United, to avoid breaching the rules. Ineos (Ratcliffe) could purchase United, but they/he would need to surrender most of their shares in Nice, if the French club qualified for the same UEFA competition as United (or one of the two clubs would be barred from competing).
We have had the spending power to compete with City for the last decade, it's not about that, all they would need to do is put the right people in charge and let them Run it, The real spending they would be required on the Debt/Stadium/Training Ground, which they have more than enough cash to do.
How do the Red Bull clubs both Compete in the Champions league? genuine question
Answered above, but no single person/entity owns more than 50% of the shares in both clubs. Plus a whole load of Red Bull executives had to stand down from Salzburg, to satisfy UEFA.
ah ok, makes sense thanks.
Thanks.
Is it fair to say we're still at a slight advantage to those clubs in terms of starting positions though? Like, we wouldn't need as much pumped in as early because a lot of what they chase, we already have?
If we can afford to spend £100m a year without a 'sugar daddy' owner, with the team, players and manager we already have, another £60/£70m year from the owner would put us in a fantastic position?
Great stuff!
But in practice you can work around this problem, although we shouldn’t understate it like I perhaps have done a bit in some previous posts when building up some complex dreams of large groups of football teams.
This is the complete text (I think, could have been amended):
…neither a natural nor a legal person (including holding companies and subsidiaries) exercises control or influence over more than one of their clubs whenever the integrity of any match or competition organized at Member Association level could be jeopardized
As we can see, it’s isolated to games, not for example transfers (in which case RB Leipzig/Salzburg would surely violate it). The purpose is simply to avoid any of those F1 situations where one driver is ordered to let a teammate past.
So all you need to do is create a system where the integrity of the management of the first team is protected. UEFA had some objections against Leipzig/Salzburg and they did some — non-announced — adjustments which were deemed sufficient. What you could do is for example create two legal entities. For example a trust and a plc. Then you on a year to year basis assign all rights to influence the selection of a team and match coaching to the head coach who is hired by the trust. It gets a little messy. Can the plc fire the coach mid season? It’s impossible to know for sure how “messy” it would be without getting insight into the case law regarding Leipzig/Salzburg. Maybe it’s out there, I haven’t checked. But there are ways around it.
To tinker with this is common in the 50+1 countries. They regularly have a investment company and a sports entity. The investment entity owns the right to obtain all finanacial income from the club and must pay all expenses, enters into all agreements with coaches, players, transfers, sponsors etc, while only owning 49% of the sports entity that formally participated in the competitions. The other 51% of the sporting entity is controlled by the members. Then the sporting entity owns 51% of the votes in the investment company, but has no economic rights. So the members of the club can actually kick out the board/chairman of the the investment company — but all profit goes to the investors. Roughly.
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Why don't they start trying then?
Great stuff, am admiring your contributions lately (and looking forward to more on FSR), but beware, you're giving away ideas here when in fact ignorance's worth something and is not just bliss (to quote you) for once. Kidding
You think Europe has been liberal in the past 3000 years. FFS this is the circle of life. It is change that you don't witness over night. And they dont have to be like you.
It's 2023, they just have to be better.
You think Europe has been liberal in the past 3000 years. FFS this is the circle of life. It is change that you don't witness over night. And they dont have to be like you.
I guess I've reset my expectations to end of January for news now.
The rats will leave as was their stay at the club - slow, painful and with too much 'negoations' to ensure they maximise their return.
The rats will leave as was their stay at the club - slow, painful and with too much 'negoations' to ensure they maximise their return.
Mate of mine overheard a top top utd employee, on the metrolink, confirming that we are being taken over by the Wagner Group.
Apparently Alexey Milchakov had Avram in a headlock until he gave in and signed us over.
Gives us an outlet for our dead wood
Apparently Alexey Milchakov had Avram in a headlock until he gave in and signed us over.
Gives us an outlet for our dead wood
Wouldn't be surprised to see this somewhere now.
Yeah I am focusing on January window for now even though we only have brought in 2nd choice keeper so far
This was in March 2022
The Glazers have relations with the Dubai Sheiks, they were there in March about some sporting projects.
The Glazers have relations with the Dubai Sheiks, they were there in March about some sporting projects.
@Messier1994 will you be here at the end when this is all over and we know who the new owners are going to be? It’ll be nice to read your posts about the new owners
Interesting. Not seen that before. Not sure of the budget for Dubai Sports Council but their vision including investing in sports abroad. Mansoor is the son of the ruler of Dubai and the brother of Crowne Prince Hamdan. Maybe he's a United fan too.
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